Prehistoric feasting hall found

Natalie Munro / University of Connecticut

A researcher excavates a hollow inside an Israeli cave that was apparently used for funerals and feasts.

Archaeologists have found a cave in Israel that was clearly used for funerals and feasts 12,000 years ago, during a time when humans were just starting to settle down in villages. Among the menu items: piles of steak and tortoise meat.

"We guess that people were having communal meals previously, but this is different from that," said Natalie Munro, a zooarchaeologist from the University of Connecticut and co-author of a study on the find appearing in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "It's more than just an opportunity. It's an intentional, planned event."

The evidence suggests that the feasts and the funerals were connected — sort of like the dinners that were served after funerals at the American Legion Hall when I was growing up in Iowa. There's no sign that the Hilazon Tachtit Cave in the Galilee region of northern Israel was used as a residence 12,000 years ago, but there's plenty of evidence of funerals: Earlier excavation work turned up at least 28 human skeletons buried there, including a woman who appeared to be interred with ritual items as a shaman.

Munro and her colleagues estimate that the woman priestess was about 45 years old when she died — which would make her an elder in the Natufian culture. Bone spurs were found on her skeleton, leading researchers to conclude that she was disabled and may have walked with a limp. Based on the way the woman's grave was hollowed out, archaeologists think she was the first person to be buried in the cave.

That makes it sound as if the cave served not only as a prehistoric Legion Hall but also as a Westminster Abbey, with a fallen spiritual leader in the place of honor. But Munro said she couldn't take the story quite that far. "We don't know if it was a shrine," she told me, "but certainly she was buried with many special things, so she was very important in the culture."

The people who lived in the area 12,000 years ago are known as the Natufians. "These are really the last of what we would call hunting and gathering cultures," Munro said. "They're on the brink of agriculture. ... If you compared them to earlier cultures in the area, they're of interest because they seem to be settling down into permanent communities."

She and the study's other co-author, Leore Grosman of The Hebrew University in Jerusalem, theorize that as individual family groups banded together in these communities, they needed ways to blow off steam.

"People were coming into contact with each other a lot, and that can create friction," Munro said in a news release. "Before, they could get up and leave when they had problems with the neighbors. Now, these public events served as community-building opportunities, which helped to relieve tensions and solidify social relationships."

Cave

Natalie Munro / University of Connecticut

The Hilazon Tachtit Cave in northern Israel is thought to have served as a hall for feasts and funerals 12,000 years ago.

And what events they were: When the archaeologists excavated two hollows that were carved out in the cave, they counted up the remains of at least 71 tortoises and three wild cattle, also known as aurochs. They said the bones and shells showed signs of being carved up and cooked for human consumption. The tortoise shells were found surrounding the shaman's skeleton, in such a way as to suggest that they were thrown in during the burial ceremony.

The tortoises alone would provide enough meat to feed 35 people, although many more than that may have been in attendance. "We don't know exactly how many people attended this particular feast, or what the average attendance was at similar events, since we don't know how much meat was actually available in the cave," Munro said in the news release. "The best we can do is give a minimum estimate based on the bones that are present."

Munro and Grosman consider their find to be the first clear evidence of communal feasting, but there's ample evidence that humans had meals together thousands of years earlier. Last year, archaeologists reported finding a barbecue pit in the Czech Republic that was used about 30,000 years ago for roasting mammoth meat and other morsels, luau-style. In 2007, scientists turned up evidence that humans cooked up mussels, clams and snails on South Africa's seashore 164,000 years ago — and perhaps even gussied themselves up for the clambake.

Munro said the important thing about the feasts that took place in the Hilazon Tachtit Cave is that they weren't just meals. They were community events that signaled an important turning point for ancient civilizations.

"Taken together, this community integration and the changes in economics were happening at the very beginning when incipient cultivation was getting going," she said. "These kinds of social changes are the beginnings of significant changes in human social complexity that lead into the beginning of the agricultural transition."


"Early Evidence (ca. 12,000 B.P) for Feasting at a Burial Cave in Israel" is being published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. For more about the find, check out the National Science Foundation's news release and photo gallery.

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This report was last updated at 4 p.m. ET.

Discuss this post

Hi Alan,

This is a great story in so many ways. I wonder if this group of people (who had a priestess) would begin to set the stage for religions to come--such as Judaism. It seems that the newer religions moved away from a "mother" figure in a subconscious or conscious way--either way, mother nature to big daddy in the sky...;-)

I was just reading another article on NV and how females will probably never be allowed into the Catholic priesthood (in our lifetime.) It's amazing how the more things change, the more they stay the same.

See ya.

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:37 PM EDT

It's amazing how much we can learn about early civilizations and our natural predispositions to such things as religions. Yet we can't come to terms with the fact that although these god-concepts are vital pieces to our history; are beautiful relics into the story of what it is to be human .... we still can't lay them down and accept them for what they are.

Yet, in this very day in age, we are constantly told that religion is a personal matter. Separate from politics, policy and society. Ironic when you hear this ... then see the crowd that gathers to hear political pundits march on Washington and call for: "A return to god." At a time when we are at our weakest, at a time when it could not be more clear that we have real problems and must find real answers .... the majority of this country can not come to terms with the very *real* fact that our religions are probably the last thing we should be calling on for guidance.

Ironic further, the generation of humans this story mentions probably had a greater sense of solidarity within the human condition then this country does today. I say we have our polarizing religions to thank for this. But I'm sure my "intolerance" will generate clear opposition.

  • 6 votes
#1.1 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:35 PM EDT

One source of confusion we have today is that some of us equate religion with a belief in God or with some sort of spirituality. A belief in God or some spiritual connection to a higher power is truly religion for some. For others however, religion is merely a means of "controlling others or being controlled by others through fear". That version of religion whatever the particular dogma, has been the bane of mankind throughout history.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:22 PM EDT

True, but of what do we reference when we speak of "god"? I'm an agnostic in regards to all references to a first-cause creator (because that is simply unknowable.) But, I'm an atheist in regards to all man-made religions such as Christianity and Islam.

The problem in our society, especially with moderates (even atheist ones), Is that there is seldom a distinction between religion and spirituality. When you criticize religion, you are bombarded with accusations of your intolerance. "Religion and science are separate!" they claim. As if reading a book claiming knowledge of our creation, our origins, and the nature of the universe are *not* making scientific claims. It's offensive to even think you must combat this notion within rational discourse in the 21st century. But, that's where we find ourselves.

The irony is that most the secular atheists I know are far more spiritual than any religious person I've ever known. The ones who can separate the numinous and the transcendent from the supernatural and the superstitious seem (to me) to have the spiritual upper hand. Yet, we are the ones labeled as blind and close-minded?

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:42 PM EDT

God made "all" things. We were made in His presence in His image but not robots. Sin entered our consciousness we ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and "knew" all things. We would have never died had we trusted Our Creator. But free will reigns and make a lot of sense, although pain and death hurt us and insecurity confuses us as we co exist with sin and our "wholeness" is fractured within this once "perfectly" made human system. The earth(nature) also groans because of sin ( it is cracked) , angels(celestial beings other creatures also made by Our Creator) deceived man kind jealous because of man made as sort of copy or a son of god. Very similar in fact our ability to create things quite unlike animals. Sin has caused death and when sin entered our consciousness God could no longer be "with" us cept' through prayer. God(Creator) is Holy we were made within His holiness (the first humans our ancestors and where "all' human we know of came from the first 2) . God cannot be also fully existing along with sin, so we are absent from the full presence of God. When Adam and Eve were cast out of the garden (His presence) becasue of this God did not end "all" life at that point. But men and women from then on accessed God by prayer and by faith. Like darkness is not truly an opposite of light but rather the absence of light( light is God) we in this fleshly state inherited from the first man and woman are in essence absent form the light (spiritually). Most people are totally aware God exists and toil with it all the time because the very questions about things and choices always have outcomes and life is meaningless or at best "natural" without Him. Nature , well, is beautiful and complex, mostly visually wonderful as well. But nature is very brutal and thorny. Jesus is the redemption and light of the world and a gift from God to pay for the sin, the debt that we have the reason we all die and are pulled away from His Spirit and ways becasue of our being drawn to the flesh and the self which is born of evil desires which sin has engulfed us and crushed us into a death no one can reverse. We are dead in our transgressions and no one is righteous or seeks God. No religion or church life or moral behavior will save you. Only the blood of Jesus. Receive His(Your Makers) gift today , receive Christ and you will be born again and never perish. He is returning and God through Jesus wants to know you and wants you home and ready to go. We all need to decide before we die. It will be too late after we pass. There is Second Life, Jesus is Second Adam. We live on and on. But we need to cross that bridge and talk with Our Father again. All religions are futile, only Christ is the way to The Father. You simply need a personal relationship, with Him. Atonement for sin , you receive the Holy Spirit and a choices will be drawn to His redemptive ways and you will see clearly the "right" way and the better choice and trust Him again. And as you and I sin along the way He can still teach us and offers infinite grace. But once we receive Christ we can begin to attempt obedience again to Our loving Heavenly Father who made us and knew us before we were in the womb.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:18 PM EDT

And so it had to happen...

After some very intelligent and thought provoking conversation from chad-1841583 and Rdmetalgeek we have this...

Thanks Barabas for showing us that you know how to read, think and repeat what someone else has already thought for you. It would be nice to see people with strong religious beliefs share and even debate their thoughts intelligently - maybe for the benefit of enlightening others - instead of just regurgitating 2,000 - 4,000 year old text. You're only showing us what an obedient lemming you are.

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:50 PM EDT

Well, I thought chad's and the geek's comments weren't very original either, but comments about regurgitating and lemmings probably meet the definition of inflammatory, wouldn't you say?

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:09 AM EDT

chad: So religion goes back to the beginning. To me, that puts it on a par with being omnivores, ie. a good thing. But it's a free coutnry, as I so often told my ex-wife when she threatened to leave me, and I thank God that she eventually did it.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:14 AM EDT

@Chris-1266397

I am very religious so I will debate with you, the problem is, I am not a lemming, I am a Buddhist; we do not believe in nor require a creator God, and we do not use fear as a threat for the afterlife for we are re-incarnated, we have no dogma, for the Dharma (teachings) are constantly changing, anyone can add to the Dharma.

Nirvana, is not some heaven in some other place at some other time (after death), Nirvana is inner peace and true happiness right here, right now. “God” does not create heaven, you do and it has always been right here, right now, you just have never recognised it.

The Buddha (Buddha means Awakened One) was just a man, he was neither a god nor a prophet, just a man, and his greatest teaching is, "Do not believe what I have to say just because I said it, for that insults both of us. With a sceptical eye, test, probe a verify for yourself what I have said, if what I have said is true, then you know it, if it does not work for you, then do not do it." Anyone can be a Buddha; we just say “The” Buddha as Siddhartha was the first.

Buddhism in general is very pro science, but Tibetan Buddhism, with the blessing of the Dali Lama, has retreats and meetings with scientist regularly as Buddhist and scientist have discovered that they both have a lot in common, for many things it is just semantics that separate the lessons (look up "the mind and Life institute for more details)

Someone once asked the Dali Lama what exactly Buddhism is, he said, "Buddhism is the science of the mind, I just happen to be the head scientist in the experiment!"

www.buddhadude.net

  • 1 vote
#1.8 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:56 PM EDT

@Buddha -- I don't think that type of argument would constitute a "debate" with any type of secular rationalist (be it an atheist or otherwise.) What you've described is a beautiful philosophical approach to life ... which is great. If I, or Chris would research the non-dogmatic tenants of Buddhism, and then spent the rest of our lives in full appreciation of it's aesthetic contributions .... it would not be a wasted life.

Where I would obviously find disagreement with your views are where "man" places a supernatural context within the framework of very natural energy sources found in each and every one of us (cultural context aside). I too experience bliss, beauty and awe ... much like yourself. And, I too can seek meditation and peace through means that scientists have yet to quantify. However, I am no Buddhist. So, we are left with the very real fact that *something* is happening (in all of us). Thus, is the human condition. We each try and find it. We each try and define it. The only difference is I place the unknowable on the shelf in which it deserves .... as is yet unknowable.

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:19 PM EDT

Yo, Barabas: Thanks for the quick synopsis of Judeo-Christian mythology, but I think most of those reading this vine are more or less already familiar with it. And remember, a mythology is . . . mythology. All anybody really needs to know about religion is that the supernatural exists only in the human imagination.

Do gods exist? Yes, but they are all in the mind. Did a god create the universe? Yes, her name is Mother Nature. The most powerful force in the universe is not an anthropomorphic deity (e.g. the ancient Hebrew god with no name, Zeus, Odin), an existential being (e.g., Jesus of Nazareth, the 9th Avatar of Krishna) or a metaphysical concept (the Holy Ghost, First Cause, Necessary Existent). The most powerful force in the universe is the unremitting natural evolutionary process of the universe itself and everything in it that we personify with the anthropomorphic metaphor "Mother Nature."

People who rely on the supernatural need to keep in mind that although the supernatural is real, it is merely a psychological concept and not a natural phenomenon except insofar as the product of the intellectual faculty of the brain that we call the mind is a natural phenomenon. Of course, there is one exception to all the above, the one and only true and truly real god, this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:32 PM EDT
Reply

party... partyyyy... partyyyyyyy

It's a religion, too

I wanna go eat and dance and getmesome

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:42 PM EDT

Party like it's 12,999 (B.P) ?

  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:08 PM EDT

Exactly, Darrah

These were a bunch of young people, looking death right in the face and then having a huge get-together and celebrating life. You can bet that they were going to want to feel something

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:28 PM EDT
Reply

fools this is evidence of the One True God Yahweh and the Israelites communion with HIM . Mono- theism thing was unique distinction. And why does this article say "pre historic" ? . No such thing. We walked with gator like serpents that were larger than we see today. The bigger ones went extinct, we are not apes. God made the first man and woman , the flood happened Noah re- populated , people at the point only lived around 100 years max, in the pre flood we lived much much longer closer to the fall. Jesus is second Adam , coming back. One clue or signal HE gave was like in the days of Noah. Today certainly qualifies, you need saved form your sin for the "promised Land"= Second Life , Second Adam, Second Coming. Jesus is Lord of heaven and the WAY. period.

Even if you give certain science studies the benefit of the doubt, pre historic still makes no sense in reference to this story. Lie ,lies lies yeah ..Or lack of integrity. Purposeful indoctrination of "say" anything can be possibly true in this day and age or current generation.

    Reply#4 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:55 PM EDT

    @ Barabas,

    Expressed like a true creatard, with the first word written being "fools".

    Of course, due to the Dunning-Kruger Effect, you can't possibly have a clue as to the delicious irony of it all.

    • 4 votes
    #4.1 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:30 PM EDT

    ooohkaaaay

    • 2 votes
    #4.2 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:23 PM EDT

    Pre-historic means before written language. Everything else you said is too ridiculous to even waste my time commenting on.

    • 2 votes
    #4.3 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
    Reply

    Barabas

    Extreme ignorance and blind faith such as yours are the basis for most wars.

    Get a larger, more objective perspective and start using your brain for thinking.

    • 5 votes
    Reply#5 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:35 PM EDT

    Barabas

    Extreme ignorance and blind faith such as yours are the basis for most wars.

    Get a larger, more objective perspective and start using your brain for thinking.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#6 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:35 PM EDT

    Just for the record, I'm the token atheist. :-)

    • 1 vote
    Reply#7 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:52 PM EDT

    Darrah

    That's nothing to be proud of.

    The Bible says "Nature itself prove that there is a God". and that "We are all without excuse for not believing" The next time you look up into the sky, tell me where does it begin and end? God says"He is the Alpha and the omega" the "Beginning and the ending".

    • 1 vote
    #7.1 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:12 AM EDT

    That may be nothing for you to be proud of. I "put up with" religion and its many followers for most of my life. And I've worked very hard to establish my own beliefs.

    But I really don't need to justify anything.

    Move along, Edward.

    • 1 vote
    #7.2 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:25 PM EDT
    Reply

    I overlooked parts of this article.

    Last year, archaeologists reported finding a barbecue pit in the Czech Republic that was used about 30,000 years ago for roasting mammoth meat and other morsels, luau-style. In 2007, scientists turned up evidence that humans cooked up mussels, clams and snails on South Africa's seashore 164,000 years ago — and perhaps even gussied themselves up for the clambake.

    Wow, 164,000 yrs. ago! I guess some people think that scientitists just pull these nos. out of a hat. If there's a god, I suppose we aren't even "allowed" to acknowledge how our brains created the technology and for us (some to comprehend.) This isn't a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" deal.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#8 - Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:06 PM EDT

    I'm a Christian, yet I believe the World could be millions of years old. In the bible the Creation periods, days, is "Yom" meaning period of time. When God created man in His image. there was already a world full of trees, animals and possibly a form of humans. Man was a special creation formed in God's image. If you read Genisis chapter 2 you will find that the day God created man and woman, was a long period of time not just a 24 hour day.

    We will know for sure when we meet our maker. The most important thing is [John 3:16]

    • 1 vote
    Reply#9 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:07 AM EDT

    "What does day mean in the days of creation? The answer must be held with some openness. In Genesis 5:2 we read: 'Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam in the day when they were created.' As it is clear that Adam and Eve were not created simultaneously, day in Genesis 5:2 does not mean a period of twenty-four hours. In other places in the Old Testament the Hebrew word day refers to an era, just as it often does in English. ...we must leave open the exact length of time indicated by day in Genesis. From the study of the word in Hebrew, it is not clear which way it is to be taken; it could be either way. I believe creation was a great length of time, oil was produced, and other minerals that we need today, in this creation period.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#10 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:27 AM EDT

    The problem with this religeon/archeology item, is where this banquet cave was found. Had this site been located in some other area than The Holy Land, the most religeous of critics could write this off as just another carnal bastion of preagriculture sociology. But noooo! Some how or another this site has to be a Biblical editor's ommission of Adam and Eve's backyard bar-b-que extravaganzas. Unfortunately there weren't any pork bones found... or beer bottles.

    12,000 years ago, should just about put this site well under the sediment deposits which the Flood which spared Noah were laid down. If these sediment deposits weren't overlaying this archeology find, I would be hard pressed to believe this banquet cave wouldn't be known to the regional peoples, and many would have survived the Great Flood eating Beef Wellington and tortoise soup, somewhat like the Katrina victims at the Astrodome. If there were other survivors other than Noah's kin...well that just wouldn't look to peachy in later years when writing was invented and religeous accounts were scribed as "the facts".

    I think this site should be held as evidence that early people could gather and have a good time, another argument that Hope predates Faith.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#11 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:54 AM EDT

    Thanks Steve,

    For pointing out the most obvious aspect of this article! How ridiculous that people are equating this early Judaism, this is why it is useless speaking of archaeological work in this region with non-archaeologists, they can't get past the "holy land" syndrome.

    • 1 vote
    #11.1 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:05 PM EDT

    These guys were CAVEMEN

    They ATE the beer bottles

    • 1 vote
    #11.2 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 1:58 PM EDT
    Reply

    what a retard u are man!...Truly now..its pathetic...waste of life..

    • 1 vote
    Reply#12 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:38 AM EDT

    Go Natufians! Take that you willfully ignorant Jews and Arabs, basing your ridiculous claims to territory on subjective beliefs and faith instead of dealing objectively with the reality of today's world. You will never know peace in your region until you put religion in its place and start making decisions based on objective analysis of cause and effect, cost-benefit, etc. I'm sure at least a few idiots from both sides will somehow try to claim Natufians as their religious representatives.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#13 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:57 AM EDT

    "objective analysis" is all a matter of who's objectiveness. Not everthing can be related to "Evolution" especially when evolution has never been proven. The Bible has never been proved wrong, as a matter of fact much of it has been proved correct historically.

    • 1 vote
    #13.1 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:00 AM EDT

    Edward,

    The bible is a historical ancient text. Its accounts can never be fully verified, they can find cities that existed and through extensive archaeological excavation perhaps find evidence of major events such as the sacking of the city, but you are incorrect in stating that "much of it has been proven correct historically." And Buzz's comment had NOTHING to do with evolution. PS, evolution hasn't been proven wrong either.

    • 1 vote
    #13.2 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:07 PM EDT
    Reply

    Humans like to be with their kind and enjoy having a good time (music, dancing, and making speeches).

    • 1 vote
    Reply#14 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:57 AM EDT

    It will be interesting to see what the grave goods were. It's possible she was a priestess, but that would mean to me that there was a very organized religion around Giah (Earth Mother). I think it is probably more appropriate to think of her as a shamman or, more accurately, a healer. This era coinsides with a rapid increase in human population in the entire fertile cresent. The entire Middle East was similar in climate to the African Veldt and probably hosted large herds of similar animals. I would be very interested to see if they find any evidence of cooked grains.

    This was probably a time of plenty where hunting and food gathering was easy, until the Younger Dryas event about 8,000 to 9,000 BCA, when everything changed (Garden of Eden??). The aproximatly 1,000 years of this global catastrophy seems to have caused large shifts in populations and the development of agriculture with the attendant change in social relationships, such as the ownership of land, inheritance, the rise in villages and towns, and the beginning of organized religion based on a male diety, rather than the Earth Mother, although she seems to have persisted in various sub-forms for many thousands of years.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#15 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:51 AM EDT

    The author of the article referred to her as a priestess, and having spiritual beliefs does not always entail "a very organized religion." Terms are all in the eyes of the beholder, within ritual archaeology there are no universally agreed upon definitions to terms, instead there is much debate.

    Also, not sure if this was a type, but the correct acronym is BCE (Before Common Era) not BCA.

    • 1 vote
    #15.1 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:13 PM EDT

    Thanks for the clarifacation. I was trying to point out that "priestess" was probably not appropriate.

    Yes, it was a typo. Not Boy Scouts of America.

    • 1 vote
    #15.2 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:39 PM EDT

    Sorry, it just really irks me within my field. I'm a nerd, instead of regular grammar rules bothering me, the proper use of AD, BC, BCE, CE bother me.

    • 1 vote
    #15.3 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:01 PM EDT
    Reply

    With all due respect to the authors, how does a collection of animal remains that were likely a traditional food source found in a cave along with burial remains, one of the remains containing artifacts that we assume have some form of protoreligious significance, rule out the possibility that this was a site where people lived and ate over a period of months or years as opposed to being a "planned event?" If this is the case, the aggregation of animal remains would account for a much lower number of people, and it would seem to fit the number of burial remains. A scenario that could be reasonably constructed is that a small group of hunter/gatherers came across a cave, made it a temporary home, ate its meals there, and as adversity struck the group (perhaps disease or bad weather and exposure), members of the group were buried. The woman identified as a priestess might simply have been a beloved person in the group whose personal effects were buried with her.

    Having done archaelogical work, I am well acquainted with the "stretch" that some of my associates readily embraced when doing their work. Simply because it was published work does not make it accurate. I would like to see a bit more reporting on the rationale behind their assumptions. What has been presented both here and in the National Science Foundation press release is essentially 21st century attitudes and world views superimposed on cave debris. Simply because people feast and because bones of animals and human remains were found in a cave does not equate to the elaborate picture presented of funerary rites, priestesses, and can't-we-all-just-get-along prehistoric diplomacy.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#16 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:58 PM EDT

    What is your field of experties? I deal with issues of Ethnicity and Gender through burial ideology. I'm currently writting my thesis on an Iron Age Greek Western 'colony'.

    I agree there are a lot stretches, but I think you are being to critical of a general public article verses the site publication dealing the interpretations, and providing you, along with other, the raw data to counter that interpretation.

    • 1 vote
    #16.1 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:05 PM EDT
    Reply

    It's sad that a lot of us focused on the possible religious aspect of these people. These are remarkable finds and it tells us a lot about their culture in many ways. I haven't actually clicked onto the links yet, but would like to find out more about that part of it. As of right now, no more discussions on religion and non-religion-- for me.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#17 - Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:07 PM EDT

    Also, the article failed to mention that there were Neanderthal still living in the area at the same time

    That would have made for an interesting comparison

      Reply#18 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 2:07 PM EDT

      The article concentrated on the Natufian people who existed around 12,000 yrs. ago. The Neanderthals had long since died out.

      • 1 vote
      #18.1 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 3:03 PM EDT

      There were still Neanderthals there at the time. Some of them shared the same caves

        #18.2 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:47 PM EDT

        Actually… According to an article in this month’s Scientific American, they have completed the first draft of Neanderthal DNA. Seems that modern Eurasian Humans (meaning modern Humans not from Africa) have 4 – 6 percent Neanderthal DNA. Modern Humans and Neanderthal were breeding together like bunnies, Neanderthal is not a distinct species, but a subspecies of modern humans and they are going to reclassify Neanderthal.

        According to the article, Neanderthals did not go extinct, some isolated pockets died off and the rest just blended with modern humans.

        www.buddhadude.net

          #18.3 - Thu Sep 2, 2010 12:23 PM EDT
          Reply

          I've gotta retract that.. it was apparently older sites I was thinking of

            Reply#19 - Wed Sep 1, 2010 8:59 PM EDT
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