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How will electric cars change our lives? Join us as we take a road trip in a Chevy Volt — and share your thoughts about the plug-in driving experience.
Media producer Jim Seida and I will take turns behind the wheel of a Volt on Monday and Tuesday for the 800-mile drive between Seattle and San Francisco, on the first leg of Chevrolet's "Volt Unplugged" tour around the nation. Along the way, we're going to be sending updates, photos and video about the real-world driving experience.
"It's probably more fun to drive than any vehicle," Volt spokesman Rob Peterson told me today. "It's very quiet, it's very smooth."
Of course, Peterson would say that. But Dan Carney, who reviewed the performance of a Volt prototype for msnbc.com back in February, also had some nice things to say about the car. "Anyone can get in the Volt and drive," he said.
Carney put the Volt through its paces on a race track, in a tryout that emphasized the Volt's all-electric performance. In contrast, when Seida and I are driving, the Volt's gasoline-powered generator will be working most of the time.
Until recently, Chevrolet said the Volt should be able to stay in all-electric mode for the first 40 miles of travel — a range that covers most of the trips the typical driver makes in the course of a day. Now those figures have been revised to a 25- to 50-mile all-electric range, depending on driving conditions and driver behavior. Once the battery runs down, the generator kicks in to send juice to the drive train, extending the car's range for another 300 miles.
Peterson said the revised claims for all-electric driving are the result of "learnings" that Chevy engineers have made during more than a million miles' worth of test drives. "What you come to learn is that the electric vehicle's range has some variability. ... If you come out and you want to go 100 miles per hour, in any vehicle you are going to have lower efficiency," he explained.
Drivers quickly learn how to tweak their own driving habits, as well as the controls on the car. For example, you can set the heater and air conditioner for high-efficiency settings, or switch into a "low gear" that lets the regenerative-braking system recover more energy for the batteries. We'll be trying out all those gadgets on Monday and Tuesday, and we're going to try out some "hypermiling" techniques to maximize our mileage. (32 mpg? 50 mpg? 230 mpg? Who knows?)
We're curious about some of the nitty-gritty questions surrounding the Volt: It takes 10 hours to recharge the car fully from a standard electric outlet, and four hours if you use a special 240-volt charging station. How do you recharge the Volt on a long-distance trip? Is it worth trying to plug in the car while you're at a rest stop or a diner? At night, do you just run an extension cord out the motel window? What's the etiquette for asking someone you'd like to borrow a few kilowatt-hours of their electricity?
We'll also be thinking about the real-world issues behind all the flashy lights on the dashboard: Can the higher efficiency of electric cars really compensate for their higher cost? Are plug-in hybrids truly the answer to America's energy ills? Or was the National Research Council right when it reported that plug-in costs would outweigh the benefits for decades to come?
The Volt has a pretty steep sticker price — $41,000. Federal tax credits of up to $7,500 could ease the sting of that sticker shock, but because of the electric-plus-gasoline arrangement, the Volt won't be eligible for as many perks as the $32,780 all-electric Nissan Leaf will get. In July, one commentator slammed the Volt as "GM's Electric Lemon," citing its high cost and other factors ranging from leg room to its requirement for premium fuel. So how will the Volt fare in the marketplace?
Peterson says the Volt — which, like the Leaf, is supposed to start rolling out to dealerships in December — will offer an ideal near-term solution in the electric-vehicle market. He told me the car occupies the market's "sweet spot" because of its 300-mile-plus extended range, compared with the Leaf's advertised range of 100 miles.
"I recall the early meetings where the team identified the mission of the Volt," he said. "The primary objective ... was to have a nice-looking vehicle that could be an electric vehicle for the majority of drivers, but could also be anybody's everyday vehicle What we learned from the EV1 [the electric car that GM supposedly "killed"] was that we had the engineering to make a dynamite vehicle. But we also learned that if you restricted drivers' freedom to go anywhere they want to go, the best you could hope for is that it would be a second or third car."
Sounds like it's time for a reality check. On Monday and Tuesday, we'll be up close and personal with the Volt and the folks who helped create it. Feel free to send us the kinds of questions you would ask — either about the big issues or the car's nuts and bolts — and we'll try to get them answered.
Keep up with the "Electric Road Trip" on Cosmic Log, take a liking to the Cosmic Log page on Facebook, and follow @b0yle on Twitter.
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I just added your blog to my list. Thanks!
So it's just another hybrid?
I'm sorry, but I did a cost comparison of a Honda Civic Hybrid vs Honda Civic gas model, and when all of the likely costs were calculated, the total cost of the Hybrid, driving 15,000 miles per year (75,000 miles), was about $10,000 higher over 5 years. For every gallon of gas saved, it costs you about $15 in other costs.
It might be OK for people who want to spend their $10,000 doing their tiny bit for 'saving the planet', but for common sense people, it doesn't make $cents.
ROY WILSON-336103
"So it's just another hybrid?"
Not exactly, it's a plug in electric with an onboard generator, in a typical hybrid the gas engine also partially powers the vehicle. This is theoretically a much more efficient design, they claim over 100 mpg is possible.
However I do agree financally it won't make much sence to the average person, most would never recoup the initial investment.
PS to comment #1.1 above.
The estimated extra cost for a Plug-In Hybrid would be an extra $6,000 above a regular Hybrid over 5 years, or a total extra cost of $16,000 vs a standard gas-only model.
Hybrids, and especially Plug-In Hybrids are a LONG ways from making economic $cents.
If GM is counting on the Volt to save the company, I would sure avoid buying GM stock.
Guess what my friend; I believe you have to re-calculate. Did you know that for every dollar you spend on gasoline, you are actually wasting .70 on the dollar? Yes, combustible engines are only at the very most 30% efficient. And did you know that an electric motor at the very least is 85-90% efficient. Now can you please re-calculate?
Alex-2008145 " Guess what my friend; I believe you have to re-calculate."
My analysis was based on COST, not theoretical 'efficiency', so there is no need to re-calculate. Just because electric motors are more efficient doesn't mean they automatically cost less in the long run.
The biggest additional costs for a Hybrid relate to greater depreciation and finance costs, which far outstrip any 'efficiency' savings.
I disagree with "trading one type of pollution for another" comments I keep seeing. Yes fossil fuels are burned for making the electricity the car uses (but not always, and they can be replaced with other sources of energy). Additionally, when you centralize pollution you make it easier to reduce or contain. Not a perfect system but a lot better than millions of tailpipes spewing out whatever they want.
I disagree with "trading one type of pollution for another" comments I keep seeing. Yes fossil fuels are burned for making the electricity the car uses (but not always, and they can be replaced with other sources of energy). Additionally, when you centralize pollution you make it easier to reduce or contain. Not a perfect system but a lot better than millions of tailpipes spewing out whatever they want.
Guess what everyone, I have a solution and that is why I commented. Although I am still looking for mass production, I have an investor meeting in two days. I won't give details, but here you can find a little info: www.noplugas.com - Thanks!
Priced at $41,000, this vehicle doesn't seem to be targeted to the average consumer. Maybe the enthusiast or those well healed individuals with some sort of interest in this technology. Being from the southern part of the U.S. it is hard to see why anyone would spend this kind of money for something with such limitations. I would love to have a electric vehicle, but I am afraid the world is going to have to wait until battery technology significantly improves or hydrogen becomes a cheaper alternative. It will be interesting to see what is learned from this exercise.
As with all things made in the mass production mode. The more that are made the cheaper they become unless they are held at artificial levels. Knowing GM the artificial level will be held until Ford makes a superior model at half the cost at which time GM will lower the cost by 500.00$
If it's like the last electric vehicle GM put out it will be recalled and destroyed before it has a chance to work.
ICE vehicles have been in production for what, over 100 years? Of course they're cheaper than a brand new technology.
The first computers cost millions of dollars, now you can get a computer more powerful than anyone could have dreamed at that time, for pocket change. The first LCD televisions cost tens of thousands of dollars, now you can get one for a few hundred. Costs come down as the technology improves and production increases. You can't write off a technology just because it's expensive in the first iteration.
Dreamland...electric cars. Yes they could be made to work reasonably well. However, the idea is to avoid pollution, right? Well, it DOESN'T. Problem is that electricity has to be produced. The more electricity production the more...POLLUTION. You are trading one source of pollution for another. All PC BS.
The efficiency of electric motors and batteries is much higher than for internal combustion engines, as is the efficiency of electric power plants. The "well to wheel" efficiency of plug-in cars is much higher than the "well to wheel" efficiency of gassers, especially considering the energy lost and pollution produced in shipping and refining petroleum fuels. Remember that refineries use electricity too, in fact the amount of electricity used to make a gallon of gasoline would propel the typical plug-in car nearly 25 miles.
More importantly, electricity can come from various sources, including several that are zero pollution. Gassers are stuck, with no non-polluting sources of fuel.
The efficiency of electric motors is very high. Batteries are however very ineficient.
Had we invested as much time and resources into the development of an all-electric vehicle twenty-five or thirty years ago we would undoubtedly have a variety of vehicles that were both efficient and cost effective. However, with the oil industry, and its co-conspirators the automobile companies, we have taken something as inefficient and costly as internal combustion engines and made them "necessary". Advances in nano-technology and battery design will in short order make EV's more dependable, and economic for everyone. Once the oil industry is out of the picture and no longer infect rank and file drivers with all the nonsense about gas-powered vehicles being the only sure method of transportation. It is stupid and wrong.
We are currently in the void between gas powered vehicle supply and electric powered demand. When demand shifts toward EV's there will be plenty of businesses that will jump in. General Motors does not, at present, truly want to create an EV. They have always followed the idea that give the customers what they want. There are far too many people who will not accept that oil is finite and the switch to some alternative form of transportation is inevitable. Never mind that we spend so much of our money on foreign oil, adding to both fueling our enemies and depressing our economy. This is entirely a consumer driven issue - no pun intended.
I don't own a car, but if I want to go on a trip I can rent a car. I would't mind having one of those electric scooters thou. I think that would give me more mobility to get to the store, the library, to my doctors, and go visit friends around town.
I agree the cars and scooters are to expensive for the ordinary person. Maybe we can get india and china to make the scooters cheaper and send them over here so us poor people can afford them. Hey maybe that would wake up the uaw and let them know their wages and benefits have to be lower or there will be no detroit left. Maybe the uaw can remember when the steel industry told there workers they will need to loose $8.00 per hour in wages or benefits to compete in the world markets. The union laughed and said no next day every mill in pittsburgh closed up shop and god knows how many thousands of workers lost there jobs because of that kind of thinking.
Wake up people if we want to survive we our going to have to change our way of living and thinking. We are slowly becoming a non economic power but we our loosing our power in every which way in this world.
Stop being a big business promoter. We need to tell big business that even though they are sending work overseas they are going to pay the taxes as though they are in this country. The tax breaks they are currently enjoying need to disappear. Those steel plants would have gone out of business regardless of if the workers took a pay cut or not. It's too easy to depend on slave labor overseas.
Three hundred miles..... That means I'll only have to push for ninety miles when I make a trip home. Or spend 4 days travelling instead of 2.....
No idiot it means you have to stop at a gas station.
Mike is right, though I would put it more delicately ... The way it works is that you get the first 25-50 miles from the battery charge. When the battery hits a minimum, then the gas-powered generator kicks in and feeds power to the electric drive train. It will stay that way for most of the time from then on, although if you slow down and stop for a stoplight, the generator shuts down and you're on all-electric for the deceleration to a stop, and the acceleration again. This is mostly for perceptual reasons. Drivers would get weirded out of they sensed that the engine was still running at a good clip while the vehicle is coming to a stop. The gas-powered engine runs in an optimized way all the time while traveling (after the initial 25-50 miles). But eventually, the indicator will near "E" and you'll have to pull over to refill the 9-gallon gas tank. It continues on gasoline-generated electricity until you can recharge the batteries back above a minimum level for all-electric operation. One thing I'd like to find out is whether you can charge the thing for an hour (during lunch) and get back some all-electric driving.
Alan, I have already heard that McDonalds is looking to install metered chargers in the parking lot at some of their restaurants. From the article I see that it takes about 4 hours at 240V, and I have also heard of 480VAC chargers being possible using specialized wiring at certain commercial and industrial locations. I am not sure if 1 hour is possible, but it seems like a significant partial charge might be possible.
Just keep the fuel take full until you get home!
Plug in electrics contribute much more CO2 to the environment than a conventional gasoline or diesel engine. It is not just trading CO2 produced at the tailpipe for CO2 produced at the power plant, the power from the power plant, ANY power plant, gas, coal, nuke, solar, hydro, wind, must come over a transmission grid that was designed for cheap coal. You are going to charge at night? There is no solar at night, and wind is at its minimum. Your Nissan Leaf WILL be charged via coal, gas, or nuke. At a CO2 penalty 2 to 5 times as great as if you just ran the gasoline engine.
Hybrids, on the other hand, seem to be the best possible mix, and the lowest CO2 load discharged into the atmosphere of most of the current choices. Other good, relatively speaking, 'Green' choices are some of the newest high efficiency engines (Ford's Duratech or Ecoboost) and some diesels do quite well (Volkswagen). Bicycles may be the best of all. (If you discount methane.)
All electric is a 'feel good' solution that carries the math and physics of counter productivity with it. If you plug one in, AND you wish to do something positive, buy and set up a wind mill. Plug it into the current grid and you just increased the pollution of the planet.
Dean
False. Even coal fired power plants achieve higher efficiency than a conventional gas or diesel engine, combined with the high efficiency of distribution and plug-in cars that means less CO2 produced. Besides, in the US only 48% of the electricity comes from coal, the rest comes from low CO2 sources like natural gas and no CO2 sources like hydro, nuclear, geothermal, wind and solar. Plug-ins keep getting cleaner as more renewable sources come online, unlike gassers that tend to get dirtier as they get older.
Funny you should mention hybrids. When hybrids first came out there were a lot of silly hybrid myths being spread, including claims that they'd be less efficient, or they'd be less reliable and would require frequent expensive battery replacements. Not surprising that silly "electric car myths" are are appearing now that the plug-in revolution is starting. Well, those hybrid myths look rather silly now, and those EV myths will look rather silly a decade from now.
Until you can realistically go 400 to 500 miles before a recharge. You won't get many takers. American's love to travel in their cars. These electric vehicles are not up to the task. I also agree that GM like their good at, has made a electric car for the masses of which the masses cannot afford. Or rather, should I get a 23,000 dollar sedan that get's 30 something on the highway and does not need charging. Or get some expensive electric vehicle.
I think it's more like the cost of the hybrids NEEDS to come down to a level that is within the reach of normal people. The range thing is about pointless. A car that works on both electric and petrol is not limited by distance. It's limited by the ignorant people that can't plan where to stop for gas and can not read the gas guage.
the electrics that are being offered are only to be used for to and from the workplace and to the grocery store, would you drive in a snowstorm with your children in the backseat looking for a place to plug it in.the gas propelled cars will never fade from the scene nomatter what al gore and his tree hugging friends say .another negative is that our electrical grid could not support 2million electric vehicles.these vehicles being ofered are fair weather vehicles.wait till the electical rates start climbing,or try finding a outlet to plug into in the mountains,the only way electric vehicles to work is that they have the capability to self regenerate the battery cells on their own the only way......another point is that that auto mfgs wont have the aftermarket sales that they have with gas vehicles,thats why the mfgs are making deals with the electric companies, for aftermarket $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,$$$$$$$$$$$$,$$$$$
Considering that it took nearly a decade to get a million hybrids on the road, I suspect that the 15 to 20 years it will take to get 2 million plug-ins will give us plenty of time to upgrade the power grid.
As for going to and from the workplace and stores and schools, that's nearly 90% of all driving! Well suited for plug-ins as an everyday car in a multi-car household, reserve that gasser for the occasional long trips. Also, for single car households there will be plug-in hybrids that can do local driving on cheap electricity (the equivalent of 70 cent gasoline), yet can use gasoline for longer trips or when electrical charging outlets aren't available.
Plug-in hybrids are better than mythical "self regenerating batteries" because they actually exist. It's kind of hard to go anywhere with an imaginary power source.
We spent way less than half of the price for the Volt and get 35+ mpg on the highway. Since we have little real city driving here in Wyoming, it's the highway miles that count. We have some places here where it's 100+ miles to the next gas station.
The Volt Just drove from Austen,Texas to Washington DC. 1776 Miles. So 100 miles + ashould be no problem. Correct?
How much does its cost to charge? Electricity is a far cry from cheap, and since most electricity is made from oil, it seems that an all electric car running on oil is somewhat hypocritical.
What you say is true except, most electricity is produced by burning coal, which is a far worse pollutant than oil (petroleum).
It's the PETROLEUM in coal that burns!!!
God help us. You have a vote just like everyone else.
Coal is made up of carbon and contaminated by sulfur and ther toxic heavy metals. All of the energy derived from carbon is from its exothermic conversion to Carbon dioxide. More than 50% of all electricity in the US is from burning coal which contributes to high levels of particulate contaminants in the atmosphere.
Petroleum is converted in almost equal measures to carbon dioxide and water depending on the exact molecule. Petroleum is therefore less carbon dioxide intense than pure carbon. The least carbon dioxide intense hydocarbon is methane (CH4) is converted when burned to one carbon dioxide molecule and two water molecules.
To create the electricity for your feel good moronic electric car, you must first make electricity which is about 16% efficient, then transmit it at 80-90% efficiency to its destination, and use it in the vehicle. The last Honda which was trialed in California was 60% efficient in terms of its energy conversion to actual vehicle propulsion. Overall, elecric cars capture less than 10% of the total heat of fossil fuels burned as propulsion (0.16x.9x.6). A diesel may be up to 20% efficient and contribute less pollution.
Therefore, electric cars are simply the feel good panacea of the moronic masses. Complete political rubbish. Better to buy a Jetta TDI -- at least you won't run out of electricity in the middle of nowhere or have to wait 3 hours for a recharge.
Hardly any electricity comes from oil, mainly a few diesel "peaker" plants that only come on during peak demand. We're getting more electricity from solar, which is actually cheaper than burning oil.
Electricty costs about 2 cents per mile, vs 7 cents (efficient hybrid) to 30 cents (guzzler) per mile for petroleum fueled vehicles. The "fuel cost" of driving electric is far less, and unlike gasoline prices that can be raised at any time by any amount, electric rates are regulated by your local public utilities commission.
Dr W, you start out with some good facts, then get some erroneous efficiency figures. It is our conventional autos that are 16% efficient, fossil fueled powerplants use efficiency boosting devices too large and heavy for mobile use, thus get efficiencies of 35% (older power plants) up to 60% (newest GE H cycle natural gas turbogenerators). The grid averages 97% efficiency, and typical EVs around 77% efficiency, leading to an overall efficiency of 26%, vs an overall efficiency of 11% for gassers. That efficiency means less pollution for plug-ins even when the electricity comes from fossil fuel sources, and a growing portion of our electricity comes from non-polluting sources such as hydro, nuclear, geothermal, wind and solar, meaning plug-ins keep getting cleaner.
Personally, I'd prefer a plug-in Prius to the Jetta TDI, the Prius already gets better fuel economy than the Jetta, and using grid electricity to displace gasoline drives the fuel economy to levels the Jetta could never dream of achieving.
CM, Sorry but we get less than 1% of electricity from solar and it cost 10x more to build and operate solar than Coal or LPG......wow do you like to skew the numbers...are you a paid blogger?
In 1960 it was the Corvair, in the 70's the Vega. This Volt is just another piece of GM junk waiting to screw anyone dumb enough to buy a GM car. When quality cars like the Toyota and Hondas are available at far less cost, why would anyone want this piece of junk.
GM does make a good car and truck, when is the last time you drove one, hey how about those prius you just can't stop them!!!
Get a life Worky or move to Japan--You are just badmouthing GM because that is trendy with a certain igonorant crowd--The Corvair was not a bad design for the time--it was killed by Ralph Nader--even after GM had corrected the handling problem he exploited to make a name for himself. Is he your hero?
Electric cars is a step in the right direction, but if if their not self-sustaining it kinds of defeats the purpose. Drive a hundred maybe two-hundred just to plug them in at night. DUH !!! Make them solar with regenerative braking systems that store energy these cars can run for hundreds of miles possibly thousands.
I disagree with coyotegirl's comment to a small degree because cars do pollute no doubt about it, but still electric cars are expensive and are not cost effective if you have to keep plugging them in all the time
1960 Corvair i owned was one of the best cars I ever had in snowy climate.
I personally despise the idea of electric cars. It costs enough just to pay the electric bill now. Can you imagine how much electricity you'd have to use to recharge a car?? The cost must be atrocious. Global warming is a Big Fat Lie & all this green technology is just another way for politicians who subscribe to it & their cronies to make themselves rich off everyone else.
Reposting this from Chris with interesting info on the "Dangers" of electric cars.
Chris:
Obama is continue wasting time and money in electric cars. Electric cars are great and very desirable but they are very costly to own and do maintenance. What Obama doesn't realize is the electric cars are also dangerous especially involving a car accident or thunderstorms. Since the cars are used big rechargeable batteries, they tend to explode more often than gasoline cars when hit by a high velocity impacts or strong thunder lightning.
Would it be worth it to have your electric bill increase by $10 if your gasoline bill dropped by $50? I'd say so. The per mile "fuel" cost of driving electric has always been less than the fuel cost of driving gassers, and the recent increases in fuel prices have made that difference even bigger. The oil companies can and do increase prices whenever they want by however much they want, which is why they've been racking up record profits for years. Electric utilities, on the other hand, must get permission from the public utilites commission to raise rates, and must present a valid reason for raising rates.
Sorry, but Obama doesn't get credit for the plug-in revolution. GM started the Volt project in 2006 in response to Tesla Motors unveiling their extraordinary EV Roadster, displaying their first prototype in January of 2007 - 2 full years before Obama became President, and long before GM requested a government bailout. Besides, all the major auto makers have an EV or Plug-in Hybrid program with plans to sell within the next 3 years - and some of those auto makers don't even sell in the US! As for the "electric propulsion" credits, that was signed by Bush Jr.
As for safety, EVs are far safer, they have less flammable material and pack less energy than gassers. Can you name a single actual instance of an electric car exploding? I though not. But I've personally witnessed at least 3 cases of gassers abruptly catching fire, two of those didn't even involve any accident!
The Telephone was a bad idea too.
Neat technology and over all a cool car, but as mentioned by Dean - electric cars actually produce more pollution than gasoline powered cars. The majority of people do not consider that pollution is created by plugging something into the electric grid. I live in Kentucky and our electricity is produced by burning coal, which destroys the environment in many different ways.
The $41,000 price puts it in base Corvette price range, and outside of the average consumer price range; the money you save on gas will never equal the extra money spent on the car. This is a cool "toy" for people with disposable income to spend on a car, but for those looking for an economical solution for a car, this is not it.
No they don't produce more pollution than gas cars. It depends on where you live. If you live in an area that gets most of its power from coal then yes. In the area of California where I live the electricity is generated from a mix which includes a lot of hydroelectric power and also a good amount of nuclear.
What do you think they do with waste left over from the nuclear reactor? It is worse than coal, because it can't be dropped anywhere and hydroelectric power REQUIRES oil for lubrication. WAKE up folks. Global warming is a lie.
surprised to see that no one seems to have read the recent national geographic issue that perfectly explained the impact of the power generation method on driving hybrid cars. Overall, there still is a net benefit in reduced energy consumption and reduced emmisions.
I think many of you are forgetting one major advantage of driving any type of electric vehicle-getting us off foreign oil. Most of the power out here in the west is coal, with solar & wind slowly gaining a foothold. It will probably not make a huge difference as far as carbon footprint goes, but it's that much less money flowing out of our country. The projected cost to operate a plug in electric is also considerably less than a gasoline vehicle, so if you have a short commute you could potentially save a good chunk of change.
I do however think that if cheap plug in cars like the gee whiz were sold here as commuter cars they would be a big hit.
Evaluare total cost of ownership of a Diesel Jetta or even a Mercedes vs the Volt. Either diesel will be less carbon intense than the Volt and more importantly does not have implications in terms of mining. The Volt's batteries are made abroad in markets without any pollution regs. The heavy metals required are devastating local areas. Just because the pollution is not in your backyard does not mean it doesn't exist.
Electric motors and batteries and the electric power grid have a higher combined efficiency than the efficiency of any internal combustion engine car, add in the energy losses from shipping and refining petroleum fuels and the efficiency advantage of electricity becomes even greater. Result is electrics produce less CO2 even when using coal for their power source - and only 48% of electric power comes from coal, and that percentage keeps dropping with more renewable sources coming online.
The Volt battery is being made by LG Chem of Korea, which is building a battery plant in the US to reduce shipping costs. The Lithium ion Manganese formulation LG Chem is using doesn't use any "heavy metals", and is considered non-toxic. Making the battery for the Volt uses less energy and produces less pollution than making a typical internal combustion engine block.
* EVs : A Game Changer with massive Potential.
1. The wave of plug-in cars might be a big boon to electrical utilities so they can afford to broaden smart grid & renewable energy base.
2. Better still, they will charge mostly overnight with the untapped, or mostly WASTED electricity without having to build another power plant, as hydro & Wind & nuclear power plants keep operating around the clock.
3. Wind energy & e-cars charging overnight would be a perfect paring.
4. Used Batteries Can Be Used In Smart Grids.
5. EVEN AFTER :
To the best of my knowledge, the battery in EVs manages to power houses for upwards of 3 days or so. Also, for a majority of motorists, their driving time is claimed to stand at around 1 hour.
By storing power from cheaper off-peak periods, the battery in EVs is able to power a house during expensive peak periods, even better, sell excess power back to the grid simultaneously, EVEN AFTER its automotive life.
6. Batteries will become more efficient on the whole and their price will drop, whereas the oil will simply go up and up as it becomes more scarce. As simple as that.
I haven't been able to buy a NEW car in years now...Cant afford the new autos...
Been driving 10 year old Honda's, trying to get good MPG and saving on fuel at the same time..
By the time Used Electric Cars get down to my price range, Ill most likely be dead..
I'm curious about the real world costs of travelling in this vehicle. Say I drive the 300 miles in a day. Now I need fuel for the engine, easy to obtain and figure out the cost/miles per gallon. BUT I need to charge the batteries. I know, just plug it in at a motel overnight for 14 hours. Who do I pay for the kilowatts of electricity I use? I'm sure that initially people will be kind and say "don't worry about it", that is until they get their next electric bill. How may kilowatts are needed to charge the batteries from 90% deletion or 25%. Are we going to see motel/hotel signs saying 'Free Recharges' or 'Lowest Electric Rates' now. Some one has to pay for the electricity at some point. It's not a free lunch. Then there's the problem of 14 hours to recharge. Myself, when I travel by 4 wheels it's going someplace I need to get to quickly. A typical travel day in a car is @600 miles but I've been known to run for 1200 if needed. If I'm only going to be able to run 300 miles and parked for 14 hours then I'll get there easier and faster on my motorcycle. Run 350-400 miles, park/sleep/rest for 8 and on the road again at 60+ mpg.
Why can't you people get the idea here? You don't have to recharge the batteries to drive the car. You are just stuck in gas mode until you get to where you can recharge. You still have the advantage of regeneration on a long downhill section.
Look on your electric bill, it will tell you what your cost is per Kwh (Kilowatt-hour). The Volt uses half the battery capacity to maximize battery life, so a full recharge would be just over 8 Kwh. Drive less than 40 miles a day, and the amount would be less. My electric rate is 11 cents per Kwh, meaning a full charge would be about 90 cents, most days would be even less.
As Mike pointed out, if for some reason the Volt owner can't charge it, they'll just drive it like a regular hybrid.
If we want to bypass coal fired power and foreign oil... we need to switch to home grown natural gas....
lower carbon foot print and half the price of oil....
The entire idea of this car is a joke. Expensive when compared to gasoline powered cars with 10 times the range. No one has discussed resale value. But, I will venture to guess it will be less than a 30 year old Yugo. We have numerous supplies of crude and shale oil within the borders of the USA. We should be obtaining our own oil first.As we continue to make the gasoline/diesel engines more effiecent we can expect less pollution and better mileage. It makes no sense to jump the gun on technology that does not yet exist. We should take our time, drill here and often, stop purchasing oil from Arab countries. In 5 to 10 years technology for inexpensive hydrogen production will be available.
Huh? Since when was there a gasoline powered car with a 3,400 mile range? Didn't you realize that not only can the Volt go 40 miles on electricity, but it can go another 300 miles on one tank of gas. Fill up at any gas station for another 300 miles.
Resale value is hard to predict, but the depreciation on hybrids in general and the Prius in particular have been much lower than for non hybrids, and the rare cases of used RAV4-EVs going on sale brought auction prices equal or higher than new! From that, I'd expect the depreciation to be less than most other cars.
Hydrogen will never be as cheap as electricity, at best it might become as "cheap" as gasoline assuming gasoline prices double and hydrogen remains tax free. But why wait 5 to 10 years for a technology that might be ready (Hydrogen fuel cell cars have been "just 5 years away" for the past 40 years) when we've got efficient electric technology for reducing oil consumption right now.
Pat....
Amen! There would be a lot more natural gas on the market if the environmental extremeists would get out of the way. Here in Wyoming they have been blocking a NG pipline. I believe that cars and light trucks can be converted to use compressed natural gas.
I've been hearing this bull from GM for a VERY long time and STILL no results. The facts are that GM doesn't want to step on the BIG oil companies toes. When they do come out with this thing it will be for California as the EV1 was. What about the rest of the country? Get this thing out in production and then find ways of reducing the cost so that the rest of us can use them!
They're starting out in selected markets such as California, but they say the car will be rolled out to all markets over the next 12 to 18 months. I talked with the Volt folks in Tacoma today, and one of their team members said people from Washington state and North Carolina are planning to go to California to buy a car there. It will indeed be interesting to see whether this thing flops or flies.
There are answers out there if you care to look. Isreal is using the CO2 from a coal fired plant to feed an algea farm.The Air Force will have its entire fleet certified to fly on biofuels by 2011 and has already flown test flights using a 50-50 mix of plant-based biofuel and jet fuel; the Navy took its first delivery of fuel made from algae this summer.
Last year, the Navy introduced its first hybrid vessel, a Wasp class amphibious assault ship called the U.S.S. Makin Island, which at speeds under 10 knots runs on electricity rather than on fossil fuel
With the military now involved the two options (electric or biofuel) will move this country forward into energy independence..the biofuel for older cars and electric for newer cars (Tesla has a sedan and SUV in the works). Our local mall here in PA already has charging stations for plug-in hybrids and there are a growing number across the country (some of which are solar powered).
Give it time..don't give up...only 'we can do' attitudes will get us there..it is not just climate change it is ridding ourselves of the dependence on fossil fuels (oil /gas first then eventually the others). Let us not be negative but think of the possibilities and maintain hope for the future.
For my $0.02, I am skeptical that it's "fun to drive". When I think "Fun to drive", I think Mazda Miata or my RX-7, not "very quiet, very smooth." However, I might be interested in something like this for a daily driver. The only problem is I am not convinced I would save any money over say, my Cobalt or a Yaris or an Accent at ~$14k. For me, on my daily commute of about 20 miles round trip total, I might never have to use the gas engine. Even then, a $20k price differential is a steep price to make up. Further, this will seem very silly I know, but I wouldn't even kick the tires on a Volt. The reason? It's a 4 door. Call me crazy, but I never buy anything but 2 door coupes.
I am excited about this, but I don't think I have the money to be an early adopter. Personally, I predict that Chevrolet will sell almost 0 Volts. Not a one. In this case, I think EVERYONE will take the $350/month for 36 month lease offer. It only makes sense to let GM take the risk on this car.
I could see this maybe being a daily driver, but it's not going to be a weekend road warrior.
I think you're right about the lease vs. buy ... The Volt folks say that if your daily driving is in the 25-50 mile range, you would save $1500 a year on gas purchases (more specifically, the lack thereof). Based on cost alone, it is unlikely that you would make up the price differential between a Volt and a similarly equipped conventional gas-powered car, unless the price of gas were to go up for some reason. Which is consistent with the National Research Council report. You would have to take other factors into consideration, ranging from reducing foreign-oil dependence to the coolness factor. The fossil-fuel footprint depends on how your electric power is generated. If a switch to electric driving promotes the spread of solar/wind power plus smart charging and energy storage, that would be a sunny scenario.
Unfortunately Alan, from my point of view, the Volt is not cool. It's an excellent candidate for a more efficient commuter car, but it isn't cool. A Miata is cool, a Mazda RX8 is cool, a Mazda RX7 is cool, a Ford Mustang is cool a Honda S2000, this is at its base just a commuter car. Now for a "cool" hybrid, sign me up for a Honda CR-Z.
Edit: And that new Jaguar C-X75, that's outright on ice. Even if it unobtainable by the average man.
This thing kinda reminds me of this President Calderon of Mexico complaining how California's ballot measure to legalize small amounts of marijuana would adversely affect Mexico, but overlooking the fact that Mexico legalized all drugs including heroin more than a year ago.
individually controlled transportation causes sudden death every day. time we get that.
the sky car may indeed be electric, if they make it that way.
Electric cars pollute the same if not more than fossil fuel burning cars. Coal burning electric plants provide the power (as well as nuclear; very few hydro electric plants). Electric cars require a completely new infrastructure (resources wasted building and maintaining power stations required for recharging). Battery production creates lead-based (among other types) of pollution.
ENERGY doesn't come out of thin air.
Maybe a waste of time correcting all the engineering misconceptions here for instance--there is no lead in the Volt batteries! Not to mention the attitudes--"resources wasted" "completely new infrastructure" In case you haven't noticed Obamas energy plan does include nuclear plants and there have been a good number of applications but it takes a lot of time to make all these changes--nobody except the also somewhat ignorant green power now at any cost crowd thinks that this will happen overnight--still better to start this change early than wait for technology that can solve all the problems at once and also compete economically with an established energy infrastructure because that may never happen--it will take a can do attitude and a willingness to accept some government regulation and mandates because this is such a huge problem. I am ashamed that so many Americans are so negative and ignorant about this. GM should get credit for taking on the risk of developing this technology. I predict they will have trouble keeping up with demand at first because production is limited. The price will come down if enough demand justifiys increasing production and a next generation. Look at all the people who sprung for a Prius even though the increased economy will never payback the premium over a comparable gas only car and the Volt is much more capable. Sure it't not going to be for everyone at first. Don't be so negative!
Well, to be honest, 10 hours is a long time to get fully charge from a regular wall outlet, thus for long-distance driving, an EV is just not practical. Plus the price range for a Volt is too steep for most average Americans. I can't see the Volt will sell much at all.
Now I wonder if anyone had heard of Nissan's Leaf. I read that the Leaf can go far longer on a single full charge. Plus, the states that the Leaf are going to be sold are putting up charging stations, thus these stations can be use to charge up faster like one would have the 240-volt charger at home. The Leaf sounds like a better EV than the Volt.
Yet, EVs, as I said, are not practical for long-distance driving. It maybe okay for those who only use their vehicles to go to work and back (much like me) and have family and friends nearby. From what I understand, hybrids would be more ideal for those with long-distance driving needs.
Of course, as others pointed out, there is the flipside of EVs, which is that in order to charge them, the electricity will have to come from fossil-burning power plants. Yet as solar, wind, and other 'green' power generators come cheaply available down the road, we perhaps will not have to worry about the trade-off, especially if say one can charge up your EV on solar power coming from panels on your home.
So I say the Volt and the Leaf are good starts. EVs will not become the silver bullet, given typical problems that still need to be addressed. Yet they will be part of the solution with hybrids, biodiseal, hydrogen, and other types of vehicles that can help American wean itself out of being dependent on oil to power the nation. :)
You are once again making a HUGE misconception. HYBRID means when it needs GAS you tank up and keep going while the engine continues to recharge the battries and motivate you down the road. Are the vast majority of Americans so stupid that they can not understand that SIMPLE concept?
jupmod
Now I wonder if anyone had heard of Nissan's Leaf. I read that the Leaf can go far longer on a single full charge. Plus, the states that the Leaf are going to be sold are putting up charging stations, thus these stations can be use to charge up faster like one would have the 240-volt charger at home. The Leaf sounds like a better EV than the Volt.
The Nissan Leaf only has a 100 mile range, the Volt can have an extended 300+ mile range because of it's on board generator.
Sounds sensible, Jupmod. The Leaf does have a bigger all-electric range but its relative recharge time is longer. 18-20 hours for 110v, 8 hours for 220v, but 30 minutes at a special 440v station. Here's a mostly positive review of the Leaf:
http://www.gearlog.com/2010/10/nissan_leaf_first_drive.php