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Jim Seida / msnbc.com
Science Editor Alan Boyle crosses the Columbia River from Washington into Oregon. The Chevy Volt has traveled 169 miles averaging 48.1 miles per gallon.
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My VW Passat TDI makes avg 47mpg on Higway at 65mph
Where is the advantage of the volt?
If you drive less than 30 miles, you use no gas. 30 miles is the typical commute distance for a majority of Americans.
Electricity doesn't magically appear, it must be generated, and transmitting it over distance is very inefficient. The reality is that we don't have the grid and/or generating capacity to support very many electric cars, and much of the electricity generated in the US is more polluting than cars are.
Very good point.
Hmmm....about the same mileage as a Prius or VW TDI at considerably more cost. I'm not getting the marketing plan here. GM should have gone to full electric like the Nissan Leaf. Once again, a day late and a dollar short in Detroit.
If GM went full electric with 100 mile range, you would be SOL once you're out of battery, or have to pull over and charge somewhere for 5 + hours. And there aren't a lot of charging stations through out the US right now.
The Volt, however, uses a gas generator to charge the battery once you run out of juice. You can go about 30 miles on nothing but electricity, then the generator kicks in to charge the battery.
"The Volt, however, uses a gas generator to charge the battery once you run out of juice." That's what GM always claimed, that the gas engine is used only to re-charge the battery. This turned out to be a bold-faced lie, as the gas engine powers not just the generator but also the front wheels. In other words, the Volt is just like all other hybrids, but costs a lot more.
Incorrect. The gas engine does NOT power the wheels, only the generator. It is an on-board generator only.
Dan is correct ... the gas engine generates electricity for the "Voltec" electric drive. Sometimes the juice streams from the engine, sometimes the engine goes off and electricity from batteries (assisted by regenerative braking) does the job.
Dan is NOT correct. That's the reveal of the day:
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/gm-lied-chevy-volt-is-not-a-true-ev.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/11/shocker-chevy-says-volts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels-its/
Perhaps a bit of clarification is in order. The Volt design is a plug-in series hybrid. The mechanical power to the wheels comes only from an electric motor, and electric power for that motor can come from the batteries, or the gasoline powered generator, or both. There is no mechanical connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels, but there is an "electric power connection".
If you start out each day with a full charge (85% State Of Charge to reduce stress on the battery), your first 25 to 50 miles (depending on driving style) will be powered by batteries only, once the battery charge drops to 35% SOC the gasoline generator starts up to provide power for the motor, but note that the battery still has enough reserve to provide a burst of extra power for fast acceleration. The "Mountain mode" starts the generator at about 45% SOC, providing a bigger battery reserve for tough hill climbing.
The Volt only charges the battery when it is plugged in, or when there is excess electrical power available, such as when the regenerative braking is active. It would defeat the purpose of "plugging in" if the gasoline powered generator were to fully recharge the battery - so it doesn't.
General Motors is testing a different design for a plug-in hybrid, one that provides both mechanical and electrical power connection between engine and the wheels, and which should get better fuel economy on long trips. No word yet on when or even if this other plug-in hybrid design will come to market. Unfortunately, that other project may have lead to confusion and the unfair "liar" accusations.
"The mechanical power to the wheels comes only from an electric motor, and electric power for that motor can come from the batteries, or the gasoline powered generator, or both. There is no mechanical connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels, but there is an "electric power connection"."
NO. That is what GM always claimed, but it is not true. Read the news!
Ok, well it uses gas a LOT less than other current hybrid out there on a typical driving day. That's still a large advantage if you ask me.
By design, the Volt keeps going and going after battery power is exhausted. The Leaf becomes a fixture at the side of the road after 100 miles. The Leaf is great if you never want to go more than 50 miles from your house. You could drive a Volt from LA to New York like a normal car. I think adding the extended range feature was a great decision by Detroit.
Yes, the extended range feature is a great middle ground between full electric and gas only. Current electric only cars aren't ready to take over for gas vehicles, we need to see improvements in battery technology before they'll become practical.
"I think adding the extended range feature was a great decision by Detroit." That's what ALL hybrids do. That's what makes them "hybrid." The point here is that GM always claimed that the Volt is not a hybrid, but a full electric vehicle.
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/gm-lied-chevy-volt-is-not-a-true-ev.html
I see a market for both Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. The Leaf is a perfect "everyday" local commute car for multi-car households, in those cases they can use a different car for their rare long distance trips.
The Chevy Volt would be better suited for single car households, they can do most of their local driving on electricity and take their long trips using gasoline. It is also well suited for those whose "daily commute" vary in length and would occasionally exceed the range of the Leaf.
The Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, and Tesla Roadster are just the first 3 of many plug-in vehicles that are coming, every major auto maker is working on battery electric or plug-in hybrid models, and they're all expected to have at least one on the market before 2014. There will soon be a plug-in model for almost every auto market, from E-bike and subcompact up to SUV and pickup trucks.
Go
Faster
GM promised (and received Government subsidies based on this) that the Volt will get 230 MPG and that it is all-electric, not a hybrid, vehicle. Both turned out to be outright lies.
Where are you getting your information? I see a pattern here...someone is feeding you all kinds of inaccurate data.
Where? Among many reports, including almost all car-related sites:
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/gm-lied-chevy-volt-is-not-a-true-ev.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/11/shocker-chevy-says-volts-gas-engine-can-power-the-wheels-its/
Would you rather our government NOT invest to develop new technologies? Where do you think Toyota got it's money to develop a plug-in Prius?
I have a 3 cylinder 1996 Geo I bought 4 years ago for $1700-gets 45 MPG if I drive 65 mph. Advantage-Geo
If you commute less than 40 miles per day, you wouldn't use any gas. Advantage Chevy.
You would run up your electric bill somewhat from the charging.
Cost of charging the car is equivalent to 50 cents a gallon. That is cheaper than gas. It is usually at night as well when the power demand is low.
The Volt is also roomier, more comfortable, and has better performance than the Geo. Advantage: Volt
The used Geo will be a lot less expensive - and looks like it. Advantage: Geo, if you're a penny pinching miser.
I fail to understand the logic behind electric vehicles vs natural gas or hydrogen powered vehicles. In the US, about 3/4 of our electricity is generated using fossil fuels, which when combined with the inefficiency of electrical transmission, means that electric cars are probably more polluting than gas powered cars, and vastly less capable. Combine that with the fact that we don't have the generating capacity, or the grid to support a large number of electric cars. Then add the fact that all batteries use toxic metals. This doesn't seem logical, captain.
The energy loss in transmitting electricity is 3-4 times as much as transmitting nat gas, which in and of itself would clearly seem to indicate that electric vehicles are not the way to go.
Natural Gas: Limited supply and filling up is complicated if you have ever done it. (I have)
Hydrogen: Great potential, but there is no distribution network. The amount of money it would cost to create Hydrogen filling stations and distribution network would be massive.
The key to electric cars is not using fossil fuels to power the grid....Solar, Wind, Tidal even nuclear must be increased to support this....I am fine as this will also make us less dependent on foreign countries for our energy.
You're all assuming that people are going to drive electric vehicles to 'save the environment' and not to save money on gas....
We're currently using natural gas to generate electricity. It's far more efficient to transmit gas to the point of use than it is to use it to generate electricity.
One thing that is preventing us from coming up with truly good and sustainable energy sources is the fact that the companies making bazillions supplying energy don't want to get cut out of the deal, and so keep framing our debates in ways that discourage real innovation. Example, this comment:
Not if the majority of it is generated at the point of use, which is currently feasible and will be much cheaper and easier soon. Each home and business could use solar and wind power to generate the electricity to separate hydrogen. Storing solar and wind energy as hydrogen makes infinitely more sense than using batteries, which all rely on toxic metals.
i think volt requires that 3rd most expensive type fuel. you cannot use the cheap one. i might be wrong though but someone can clarify it. also its a 4 seater. i want to know why should i buy volt for 41k.
It is expensive to purchase considering it's a small car. Lease will be $350 per month which isn't bad for a $41K car; however, with tax credits, you can buy the thing for about $33,500 (I know, still a lot for a small car).
You guys are missing the point:
95% of the time this will operate as a fully electric car for most individuals. You can't compare that to
" My 19XX XYZ gets 47 mpg", because fully electric means no gasoline at all. And it will be doing that 95% of the time.
When you want to go on a long trip, it will get fuel efficiency that's equivalent with the best cars in the industry.
This is a big step forward! It's not the be-all end all, but it is the next best thing to a fully electric car that can recharge in <15 minutes.
Actually, the standard Prius gets better fuel economy on long trips, though obviously not nearly as good on local driving. Toyota will be introducing their Plug-in Prius sometime in 2011 or 2012, it will have a shorter "EV only" range, but with a lower price and better fuel economy on long trips, it will be stiff competition to the Volt. Toyota is also planning a new RAV4-EV with a Tesla designed battery pack.
Tesla Motors is working on their Model S all-electric sedan, it will have an "under an hour" fast charger capability and a range of up to 300 miles, and possibly a "2 minute" quick swap battery as well. The Model S will be more expensive than the Volt, but it is more luxurious, with room for 7 and luggage space front and back.
You're totally failing to factor in the fact that electricity has to generated, and 3/4 of our generating capacity is from fossil fuels, and that transmitting electricity is the most inefficient way to transmit energy. If electric cars are to be meaningful, first we have to completely revamp our generating sources, and completely rebuild our power grid.
I'd love to own one but the cost is too prohibitive in this economy. Perhaps I'll buy a used Volt in a few years.
The economy of scale. With interchangeable batteries, the distance problem evaporates. You don't own the battery, you're just renting it for the charge and using the service station to exchange a depleted battery for a charged one!
Boy, seems like a lot of GM haters showing off their ignorance here. First, the Volt plugs in. The current Hybrids do not. OK? This is not a Prius. First 40 miles uses no gas. OK? Prius doesn't do that. Understand?
The leaf does not have a range extender to go beyond the battery range. The Volt does. That is the difference. Makes a big deal if you want to go on a longer trip. Also, most people drive under 40 miles a day. That means they could get by using no gas. Prius cannot do that. Understand? However, the Volt can go beyond that 40 miles and it will use some gas. The Leaf will not do that. Understand? Now, if the ignorant people posting here can read, they should be less ignorant.
I would like the picture that goes with this article better if it showed the Volt going 84 instead of 54.
Typical GM screw-up. They are hyping this vehicle almost beyond belief then they plan to deliver only 10K this year even though demand they claim is at 145K already. Let me see----if we can create enough demand then we can hold the price. Drove GM for many, many years but after I switched I knew they would have create more than hype to sell me another vehicle. They still lag behind the competition. Hope their latest endeavor gets them back in the race.
Some people are missing the point, the Volt is not a hybrid. Hybrids use their gas engine all the time to and use the battery power to give a little extra efficiency. They average around 40mpg.
The volt uses no gasoline whatsoever in its first 30-40 miles (depends on how much of a lead foot driver you are), then acts like a hybrid for the rest of your trip. Most daily commutes conveniently fall within 30-40 miles meaning you could go several weeks between fill ups at the local BP gas station.
Since it has two "fuel" systems, battery and gasoline, it is a hybrid. Technically speaking, a "Plug-in Series Hybrid". But for some obscure reason, GM marketing is trying to distance it from other hybrids, so they came up with the term "Range Extended Electric Vehicle", which is an acceptable synonym for Plug-in Series Hybrid.
It's not just that GM came out with a confusing new term, they actually stated that "The Chevrolet Volt is not a hybrid. It is a one-of-a-kind, all-electrically driven vehicle."
This statement is still on their site (http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/vehicles/chevrolet/volt/2011.brand_chevrolet.html), even though it is a total lie.
I'm the driver the Volt was designed for, but I was expecting a price in the high $20k range. I can buy a lot of gas for the difference and I don't need the tax advantage. I'm hoping the price will come down with customer demand.
There will be competition soon, every major auto maker is working on battery electric or plug-in hybrid models to go on sale in the next 3 years. Some of those will be in your price range, including Toyota's Plug-in Prius. So save up your pennies and be patient.
World class engineering by a american owned company good start chevy and good luck.
The price has to come WAY down and get much better fuel economy before I would even consider buying a Volt.
" Go Chevy "
The Chevy Volt is a marvelous piece of technology but comes at a high cost. There are more economical ways to produce more efficient vehicles using conventional means. Turbocharging, direct injection, cylinder de-activation and using variable transmissions are relatively easy ways to make engines more efficient. Granted turbochargers have had reliability issues in the past but they have improved.
Weight is another place where efficiency could improve. Less weight=less fuel burned. Automakers should explore using carbon fiber, all aluminum construction or some other light weight material with high strength. Carbon fiber is expensive but if it can be made in large quantities that should bring the price down. It isn't exactly brand new technology, its been around for the last twenty years. Its used in bicycle frames.
Some of you are just haters and crying babies...If you hate so much an America Company for its game change engineering...The Chevy Volt... then fine, buy your toyota and all other foreign cars, after all, it is a free country...But let us, the ones who appriatiate the "World class engineering by a american owned company" #16 enjoy the ride, which it is going to be a long prosperous ride for us Americans...Go Chevy, Go Michigan, Go GM...God Bless USA. BY t he way...I can't drive over 70 MPH...Those NY State Troopers are all over I87 anyway.
PS:
There is a large central sun gear turned by the 149 horsepower electric motor at all times. Around it is a planetary carrier which turns the wheels. When the car is in charge depleting mode, an outer ring is locked to the case. The engine and generator are disengaged.
When the car reaches 70 mph the main motor spins too fast to be maximally efficient, and a clutch disengages the ring from the case. This allows the second electric motor to participate and both motors act in parallel to reach speeds of 101 mph with adequate power.
In charge sustaining mode, the gas engine goes on and clutches to the generator causing it to produce electricity to continue powering the main motor.
However of particular interest, when going above 70 mph in charge sustaining mode, and the generator gets coupled to the drivetrain, the gas engine participates in the motive force. GM says the engine never drives the wheels all by itself, but will participate in this particular situation in the name of efficiency, which is improved by 10 to 15 percent.
Price and convenience always wins out over any other benefit. If the infrastructure doesn't accommodate the every day use of the EV, it is doomed to failure. The one good thing I see is that all the car companies are trying to offer EV in some form or fashion so maybe that will spur support in the infrastructure. Even with the tax credits the price on these cars is way too expensive for most people. ~20K is my limit. I would never buy a car with limited capabilities, especially range, and that also require a whole lot of extra effort just to get it ready for its next drive. There is a long ways to go before EV would ever become the dominant car of choice. The cost of switching over is going to be a real problem.