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Subscribe to RSSFor some billionaires, space travel is a cause worth big bucks. The examples range from Virgin Group chairman Richard Branson, who's putting together what's likely to be the first suborbital spaceline, to Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, who is backing the publicity-shy Blue Origin space venture (and benefiting from NASA funding).
But how far are deep-pocketed space fans willing to go? Pete Worden, the director of NASA's Ames Research Center, recently hinted that billionaires are being recruited to kick in contributions for a deep-space mission known as "the Hundred Year Starship." The idea builds on the long-discussed concept of sending people on one-way missions to space destinations, in hopes of jump-starting colonization of the final frontier.
Worden is quoted as saying NASA has already committed $100,000 to the project, with the Pentagon's Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency providing another $1 million in funding. His comments, made at the Long Now Foundation's "Long Conversation" event on Oct. 16 in San Francisco, were reported by KurzweilAI's Amara D. Angelica.
Worden said NASA and DARPA have "just started" the project. "We also hope to inveigle some billionaires to form a Hundred Year Starship fund," he was quoted as saying.
"The human space program is now really aimed at settling other worlds," he said. "Twenty years ago, you had to whisper that in dark bars and get fired."
Actually, quite a few people have been talking about the idea, although deep-space colonization has not previously been mentioned as part of NASA's official space vision. Two researchers discussed the options for one-way trips to Mars this month in the Journal of Cosmology, and at this month's International Astronautical Congress in Prague, experts reviewed the possibilities for interstellar trips.
Worden said he has discussed the potential price tag for one-way trips to Mars with Google co-founder Larry Page, telling him such a mission could be done for $10 billion. "His response was, 'Can you get it down to $1 [billion] or $2 billion?' So now we're starting to get a little argument over the price," Angelica quoted Worden as saying.
When it comes to sending colonists to other planetary systems, Page and his fellow billionaires shouldn't expect a quick return on their investment. "If we expect to be sending hundreds of people out to colonize another planet, we're really talking about something that's going to take 100 years or more to really make happen effectively," Derrick Pitts, chief astronomer at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, said on MSNBC today.
Click on the video above to hear the whole discussion, then add your comments below.
Update for 3:30 p.m. ET Oct. 27: The Tau Zero Foundation was established to support private initiatives on interstellar flight. Last week the head of the foundation, former NASA researcher Marc Millis, wrote an exclusive piece for msnbc.com on the progress being made toward missions beyond our solar system. Here are Millis' thoughts on the "Billionaires Wanted" announcement:
"I was surprised to see the announcement. I just left NASA due in large part to the indifference within NASA toward anything beyond the von Braun visions, including advanced propulsion research and interstellar missions. That work was active in the late 1990s, but got 'differed' (the euphemism at the time for 'canceled') around 2003. With my retirement, I'm devoting more time now to our Tau Zero Foundation for research and education toward interstellar flight that has more operating flexibility than when I was at NASA.
"That this announcement came from Pete Worden, however, was less surprising, since he has been getting Ames to delve into all sorts of interesting things beyond NASA's 'business as usual.' Their dealings with Google is one example. Singularity University is another.
"Supporting the 2009 International Space University Summer Session is yet another, especially considering how such things were viewed within's NASA culture during and after the Dan Goldin years.
"I recall discussions from our own NASA Glenn management to the effect that 'we can't do that (novel working relations and ISU support) and don't know how Worden's doing it." I applaud Pete Worden for being able to embark on such novel approaches, especially realizing the difficulty of doing so in the NASA culture.
"That said, I was confused as to why DARPA would be interested in star flight, why they would turn to Worden for such a thing, and why the technology cited as an example of relevance was only 'microwave thermal propulsion.' I did not recognize the names of the cited experts as the ones that I know who work on that topic (such as Frank Mead, Jim Benford, etc.) That idea has been around for a long while and is not really at the top of the list for 'interstellar' approaches. It is surprising to see these new folks as the focal point.
"Regarding the level of DARPA support, $1 million might sound like a lot to the layman, but it's really only enough for one focused task or a handful of smaller research tasks. That is not much in the grand scheme of things. Also, NASA contribution of $100K is enough for about a half-year of labor. For NASA in such lean times, that is actually a modest overture to the topic.
"For a comparison, during my years with the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics project (1996-2002), we were able to leverage around $1.6 million in total spread over seven years to assess about a dozen approaches, produce 16 peer-reviewed articles. Then, using volunteers and discretionary time thereafter, we managed to compile the book 'Frontiers of Propulsion Science.' It felt really good to accomplish that.
"But the part of the news that really threw me for a loop was for Worden, as a NASA official, to suggest philanthropic support. I was not allowed to do that as NASA.
"That's a great idea -- in fact, that is precisely what my Tau Zero Foundation is trying to do. We're taking the approach of first building a repertoire of progress to demonstrate that we can indeed take on the challenge. I want the people who donate to know that their funds go to the folks who can make real progress. I'm proud of all the progress that our volunteers have been making in that regard.
"I really should compile a list of all the publications resulting from their work (add to the to-do list).
"If, and when, billionaire philanthropists do want to contribute toward star flight, I hope they shop around first."
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After seeing the last two weeks of television ads, I'm ready to go. Beam me up, there's no significant intelligent life left here.
Especially if colonists can agree to form a government dependent on the good moral character of the people. Police, social services and other government spending would not be necessary if the people govern themselves. We will have to look to the Pilgrims on that one.
The same pilgrims that hanged all the "witches" in Salem?
Sign me up, Scotty!
I've got $5 on it
Sounds interesting, Ladies and Gentlemen; But the Star*Ships are already built, already exist.
Free of Cost. Venus is being terraformed for colonists from earth; and Mars has the terraforming
equipment -just needs earth-colonists to do the work with them. Sheldan Nidle of Sirius has updates
on his site www.paoweb.com each Tuesday evening, and good books as well. WAKE UP OH YEA
PAST FANS OF STAR*TREK - IT's happening NOW behind the scenes, Behind the Media Black Outs
Can I have some of that punch?
So tell me Heru, what shape do you configure your tinfoil hat in for maximum protection from government mind control devices? I think it may be leaking...
that is some serious koolaide... but hey "peace and inner strength through unity" sounds like a good thing. I mean, I understand how unity could bring peace but inner strength is something one can and should get without the help or influence of others. Once you start down that path it's the same stuff every religion sells. But I suppose deep down we all want to be part of the "Galactic Federation of Light".
ROFLMAO...
You guys are surely right, as 'I GOTTA GET OUTTA HERE'! The U.S.A. has really gone wacko, and I would like to 'MAN UP', however, can either of you loan me $ 999,999,999.95, as 'I am using my last nickle to send a fart, on a boat load of political s— — — — to China', at least there some of this tripe that has been hitting the headlines might get the attention of 'Someone that has a pocket full of give-a-s— — — _!
My Profile can be found at www.AshtarCommandCrew.net and Ashtar Command ( Not NASA ) is Earth's
Star*Fleet ...( But we actively recruit NASA and Air Force Academy and Navy Academy to do duty tours on our
ships -must leave their Politics at home when they enlist LOL ) Commodore Heru Paule LeBreton
You'd better donate some of your billions and billions to this project. If you have billions you are too rich to begin with. and you have no idea what this really means to us as a species and civilzation. This is 10xs bigger then the pyramids in my opinion. and you are a selfish bastard if you don't. I will donate money to this project and I make $18,000 a year at my job.
If you are only making $8.65/hr then your money would be much better spent on higher education, for yourself.
I got $5 on it!
Unreal - why don't they spend all those billions rehabilitating THIS planet from how much we've f#cked it up instead?!
Because most humans have decided that, on an individual basis (both in and out of America; mostly in) that their individual luxury and wants are far more important than the Earth's.
Lets face it, our Earth has a massive pricetag on it and we've been ABLE to do this since, hell, 1969, but we've not even sent anyone onto the moon since 1972!
Also, we've got to leave sometime, planets die off.
Because you can't even get people to agree that the planet is fragged up, or that it was people that did it.
Because they've realized it has an expiration date. :P
"..."why don't they spend all those billions rehabilitating THIS planet..."
billyedtimmy, you speak as if no one, including billionaires, are already addressing this. As much as I dislike some of Microsoft's products and business practices, I have to cut Bill some slack for the Gates Foundation, for starters. Plenty of other very wealthy folks (some of which may be interested in this too,...not all of your money has to go to what someone else thinks is politically correct) put plenty of money in various charities and philanthropic organizations. Iy just doesn't normally get headlines.
Besides, some of the solutions to Earth's problems are to be found off-Earth...
What an utter waste of money, however it is their money to waste if they choose to do so. Mankind won't be leaving the solar system for at least another 200 years+ as the technology to do so does not exist.
Thats right its not like we get any new technology or other scientific and technological advancements when we spend money on space programs, oh wait, most everything you use on a daily basis came about as a result of Nasa and its space program.
But then this is the private sector so we know we wont get any benefits from this....get a clue...
chakchakmo - well with attitudes like that, yeah we definitely WON'T be making any huge advancements for 200 years. Like Pirate C said, get a clue. You have to take risks if you're going to make a leap.
The technology to do so exists. It is just kept away from common knowledge, to bring this knowledge forward would change the basic underpinnings of our society so much so, it would be like almost destroying it.
First, I don't believe you. Prove it.
Second, I'm very Darwinian on this. If we really have all this uber knowledge and technology hidden away somewhere, bring it on. If a society can't take it, too bad. The Universe never promised anyone that it would meet their cherished beliefs. If it makes some religion, or some country, or some philosophy, or some society collapse because they couldn't adapt, too freaking bad...
Third, technologies are moving at breakneck speed as it is, and is only likely to increase. What have you got that could induce more of a 'Future Shock' (already an old term) than already anticipated advances like AI, indefinite life-extension, advanced genetic and biotechnology, molecular nanotechnology, mind uploading, etc? You think you got anti-gravity, reactionless drives, time-travel or FTL for us too? Ho-hum. I've read SF all my life, I'm used to these possibilities.
Fourth, I'm still waiting for that proof...
That Sign Post up ahead.........
When you see the proof, its really bad because you can't tell anyone, why would you spoil it for yourself, people that do not believe there are others around us that have witnessed it, would not be able to deal with it, its only something for people with open minds and humanitarian beliefs, we wouldn't want o piss them off, trust me. Treat all forms as you want to be treated then and until then, you will never see.
Pete Worden, the director of NASA's Ames Research Center, recently hinted that billionaires are being recruited to kick in contributions for a deep-space mission known as "the Hundred Year Starship."
OK Team...I went to the NASA-Ames website and offered the use of my Galactic Star*Ships to them as
a multi-trillion dollar GIFT to "The Hundred Year Starship" Project... Now we "Hurry Up and Wait" Heru
Do you have any pics of said Galactic Star Ships? Let me guess, they have a cloaking device so pictures would be worthless....
you know what would be hilarious... having the "the love boat" in space...
without any political sniping, I would sign up for a legitimate flight to go one way to Mars. I can't contribute much to the billion $$$, but I'd only ask that the plan reasonably protect human life, and that there be a radio, reading/video media, and a dependable and reasonable ongoing source of food and oxygen on arrival. I'll work with anyone else; I'm easy to get along with. I'm not a moron, nor mentally ill; I have several degrees, a successful career, and no reason to believe that I might be suicidal (as the term would be properly defined). I'm just somebody who enjoys experiences (subject to a minimally-reasonable measure of self-preservation to reasonably maximize the experience).
I'd bet there are a bunch of others like this. That's how easy this is.
Eh, not me. I mean, I would LOVE to be one of the first humans to colonize a new planet... but not Mars. Much too barren and barely inhabitable in its current state.
smart man,I dont have any degrees , but I am a machinist and I would like to go(under the same conditions).
I love this, cause really your billions is useless to them, and furthermore they would not like you, and think you are a bunch of selfish bastar--s that are worthless to them, and don't have the time of day for your antics and really its by invitation only, dp you think they need anything from us? Its wonderful to know that you just aren't rich enough, and have absolutely nothing they want. Oh also leave the t.v. and remote, cause what you would see would absolutely take your breath away, possibly even be insulting. Tread litely, less is more.
Who the @!$%# cares. When it hits $50 let me know. Until then @!$%# off.
They need to develop warp capabilities before they can build a star ship. Even at a 100 years, you're not going to get very far without at least going the speed of light. Certainly not to an M class planet. The nearest one of those (if they truly exist) is probably a thousand years from Earth with current technologies. That's a long time to be traveling in space.
I was wondering when someone would notice that simply getting there is a pretty big hurdle.
The closest star to our solar system is Alpha Centauri. It is 25,689,040,000,000 miles away. Current ion propulsion engines can achieve 200,000 mph. Assuming they attained this top speed immediately (which they don't - ion engines are slow accelerators) it would still take over 14,662 years to reach.
It should be noted that no planets have been discovered in that star system, let alone anything that might possibly support life.
Yeah, spending money on interstellar human spacecraft is utterly stupid without either reliable hibernation technology, or superluminal transportation. Light speed travel might be good for interplanetary transport, but when you're talking about traveling around the galaxy, even the speed of light is too slow.
Yup, and don't forget that we need to come up with a way to shield the passengers from the plethora of radiation out there.
However, the people planning this project obviously have thought about all these things. Probably a good deal of the funds they gather will be used for research on the very issues we just brought up. Looking forward to seeing what progress they can manage :-)
A"Generation ship" is an heroic and romantic idea, but even a wee bit practical-nope. Me for superluminal.
Mr Blue, we have no certainty that FTL travel of any kind is physically possible. If it's not, then throwing all the money in the world at it won't matter. If it is, we can't presently say a thing about how long it would take to learn to do it, or how difficult, or practical it may be.
You seem not to have heard of time dilation (a phenomena we do know to be real, and even have to allow for in GPS satellite clocks) If we can get sufficiently close to the speed of light (very difficult engineering, but no unknown physics), far less time will pass for ship and crews, than for those back home, and that's what's important, if this is a one-way colonization trip. You will want to know as much as possible about what's at the stars of interest (and massive space-based telescopes will be possible, well before starships are), but once you're satisfied, going out a thousand light-years over which the crew may experience only ten years (and yes, there's still the prospect of some form of suspension if that's still too much for you) is not asking too much at all...
FTL would be nice, but lack of it is no show stopper.
thats why you work to develop technology that gets you across the stars without "moving you across the stars" move the space instead.
building a starship before knowing where to go is a dumb idea. Better to spend the money on finding habitable planets. Real progress is being made in this field today. Plans for supertelescopes have been made and need to be put in action.
Its not like we dont have hundreds of places to go and study in our own solar system so why would it be dumb? even if we cant go to other star systems we could develop space travel to explore our own solar system and colonize it and make the trips like a long drive here on earth.
Your thinking too big and too ahead, we need to be able to easily explore our own solar system before we can explore other solar systems. That is of course common sense but it seems that our govt and those that get advanced degrees loose a large portion of common sense.
Your comment smacks of planetary chauvinism. We don't need planets to live on; we can build large, comfortable habitats anywhere we have sufficient energy and raw materials. Why live at the bottom of a deep gravity well if you don't have to?
My opinion is that if humanity can stop damaging this planet, and reverse what has already been done here, then we might expand our goals. Solving our current problems is much more doable than colonizing a distant world, and should take priority. Focus, people.
I say clean up your own backyard before you decide you are smart enough to conquer the galaxy.
If I was a member of an alien race, I might put my foot/feet down on the whole idea, given our track record.
Without a major breakthrough in power generation, REVERSING the damage done to the planet is going to be quite difficult. A very large chunk of our electricity still comes from coal fired power plants. Also you have to consider that barring any major wars or epidemics/disasters the Earth's population is going to continue to grow. That increased population is going to need to live SOMEWHERE, and unless we just start building a ton of high-rise apartments that means more tree's are going to be cleared for houses and farm land. And THAT will happen even faster if we gain a new energy tech (say fusion for example).
So really, humanity's best bet for both surviving and helping out Earth is to branch out to new planets and colonize them. There are numerous technological hurdles that need to be overcome to get there, yes, but nothing good comes easy.
"...Solving our current problems is much more doable than colonizing a distant world, and should take priority. Focus, people...."
Focus on what I said to billyedtimmy. This is not either/or, any more than merely going to the Moon is.
We are a civilization that can walk and chew gum at the same time. If you think not, then tell me which of our multiple 'current problems' must take priority over each other? What's that? We have to solve them in parallel?
That's walking and chewing gum...
Currently, it costs $1 Billion + (maybe closer to $2B) to build an already developed B2 stealth bomber. How do we expect to put a spaceship far larger and more advanced than any we've ever conceived into space for such a period of time on the same budget? I should think they ought to be looking at closer to a $100-250B budget for such a monumental undertaking. And after the successes of our early space program and the more recent decline of said program, I am all for intelligent inventing of massive amounts of taxpayer money if it means another milestone for the human race.
The final build probably will end up being close that price, I'm thinking $1 billion would pay for potential research for the tech that we're going to need to make such a trip.
Lets start with Mars first, make that work, then get going out in deep space. Of course, we need to find a target first. If it was up to me, we would have already been on Mars.........20 years ago
The technology hurdle is not in propulsion or materials. The breakthrough would need to be in either long-term hibernation or a system to develop and educate "test tube" babies once the ship landed.
That technology alone would cut the size of the ship, the mass of materials needed, and negate the time of transit.
If one automated system raised the kiddies and another developed habitat at an equal rate, the biosphere would grow along with the new colony--maybe drilled underground.
I also think that the technology to seperate "entangled" atoms in to communication devices would allow fro real-time communication over interstellar distances.
Me thinks someone has been reading Orson Scott Card recently :-) Reminds me of the tech mentioned in his books anyway.
Which was itself taken from Ursula K Guin's Hainish Cycle.
"That technology alone would cut the size of the ship, the mass of materials needed, and negate the time of transit."
Some form of suspension would be smaller, simpler, cheaper still. At liquid nitrogen temperatures, humans have zero life support needs, and they'll be in that state until arrival. You need only demonstrate that revival can be done completely automatically (after having proven on Earth that it can be done at all...)
And you understand that if we had AI that was up to the task of raising human children, someone will invariably say, 'just send the AI by itself...'
Your right frank thats it, on earth, earth's technology, as far as the ship, and the size, the power thats out there, and has been harnassed, nothing can stop it, and its free, the knowledge will cost you. If you have never ever believed that there is other ships, I can tell you there is.
That's a long flight. Better pack lots of chicken. I love chicken.
Just one tiny detail.... We have yet to discover another planet that we know can support human life. I predict they'd lose their bearings wandering around deep space for a really long time... After awhile they would think they discovered a new planet and land back on Earth. Now that would be interesting, but not worth billions. It would be a bit more interesting if we had forgotten all about that send-off and they filled us in with their stories about coming from Earth in a way which would be only partially accurate after being retold over generations. And it would be downright tragic if they landed in the middle of a jungle inhabited by a primative tribe who immediately killed them and word of their return never got out.
Yeah, I mean, it's not like you can triangulate your position using the positions of the stars or anything.
Dont you know that to plot a destination you need 7 point, 6 to triangulate the position you need to get to and then a point or origin.
Are we worried about running out of stars to use as reference points?