Nov 24 is national “I OPT OUT” day in airports across the US to protest the TSA nude image machines and public groping of private parts including mothers, grandparents, children, babies, and you!

Get your Anti-TSA t-shirt today:

www.zazzle.com/website_design

*No one should need to see you naked to fly

*No one should be exposed to excessive x-rays without a medical reason

*Violating your right to privacy and to not be searched without probable cause or warrant.

*These machines can not detect explosives, and haven't been proven to making flying anymore secure.

* Tell everyone, file complaints, get heard and don't give in. Fight for your rights!

also a national petition is getting organized and will be launched soon at:

www.forprivacy.org

Stop TSA now!

Strange how silent the Tea Party folks are on this one. Where is all of your "small government" ideology when we really do need it?

The tea party folk are not silent on this. We just don't run around with 'Tea Party' tattooed on our forehead. A better question would be; where the hell is the ACLU?

Hmmm! Tea Party wanting ACLU?

Are you joking? The San Diego guy who took audio and was eventually tossed out of the airport has been all over the libertarianish/less govt side of the Web. Where did you conduct your exhaustive search, Daily Kos?

Way to go MGinRochester, you've successfully injected Partisan Politics into a conversation that has nothing to do with Political Parties.

Bitter much?

What they failed to mention in the article is the people who fly on a very regular basis, and have to go through the scanner multiple times per year, or even per month (like the airline pilot for instance).

"Peter Rez, a physics professor at Arizona State University in Tempe, He calculated the risk of getting cancer from a single scan at about 1 in 30 million. While the risk of getting a fatal cancer from the screening is minuscule, it's about equal to the probability that an airplane will get blown up by a terrorist, he added."

Therefore, for each round trip, you are going through 2x, and add 2 trips/month times 12 months... That really starts to add up, and significantly increases the likelihood that you will die of radiation caused cancer ove getting blown up by a terrorist.

Starfrute, you make a good point and I think the government should make some concessions for people who travel frequently for business. But they won't.

If we weren't such an insanely, politically correct society, the powers that be could streamline airport security to be less intrusive, more efficient and, of course, less politically correct.

Unfortunately, we have to treat Joe Blow, who travels monthly for legitimate business, the same way we treat Abdulah, who's taking a one-way trip to Pakistan with a time-line for return ticket unknown. But hey, we don't wanna profile those terrorists or get any turbans in a knot!

In fact, I'd like to be a fly on the wall when a burqua-wearing Muslim woman is required to receive the same "feel-up" measures as the rest of us!

The government officials know they will be out of office before any ill effects are known. I kind of doubt being exposed once will cause a problem but you have to wonder about TSA personnel and airline employees who are exposed to this almost everyday. What about people who travel on business and fly weekly? We need to remember this is the same government who experimented on mental patients and the poor for years! I watched a video about the "pat- downs" they are ridiculous! This is not running the back of their hands over every inch of a person; this is rubbing and groping repeatedly over areas like breasts and gentitals, it is no wonder people are balking!

The Tea Party has been amazingly silent on this. How many of the big name Tea Party folks talk about this? It certainly wasn't an issue that the many Tea Party candidates talked about in this last election.

Sybrsean, it *IS* a political issue. Our politicians (and their appointees) are the ones that are responsible for these machines being used. No, it's not a coincidence that the companies that make these machines have spent megabucks lobbying members of congress.

They can be as 'technical' as they want. An abundance of my family members have experienced and died from numerous types of cancers. Thus, any additional 'stimuli' to exacerbate what I believe is lying dormant in my body and bring it to life, is of serious concern to me.

Consequently, I either have to go through the scanners and accept being 'zapped' risking further cancer concerns, or use the only other disgusting route offered to air travelers; to go through a humiliating patdown by TSA personnel, and 'lose' any and all inhibitions I have and accept the fact of being 'felt up' by a stranger.

I have several ideas to turn this into a 3-ring circus. I demand that each and every employee associated with TSA go through an extensive criminal background check related to having history as being a sexual predator. I am an elder, but I dare anyone to put their hands on my personal body parts---there will be a knock-down drag out & 'grannie' will be dragged off to the clinker. The experiences of others who opted for the patdown and what they have reported thus far are disturbing.

TSA's arguement to check passengers this extensively is overkill---our 'elected pub servants' / congressional members sitting on committees need to get their house in order---and actively look at the security rules pertaining to how cargo is treated is less than acceptable. (I elect to believe some fairly sick minds came up with the intrusive pat-down rules.)

They emit one fiftieth to one one hundredth of the emission of a chest x-ray. They are not dangerous unless you camp yourself in front of one for a long time with the thing scanning continually. These scanners like x-ray machines work on burst emissions where the actual exposure to radiation is less then one second. This argument is more then a little ridiculous and has probably been brought by someone who feels put out by the need to pass through one or accept a pat down.

People,think about this... Aren't these the same people who told American soldiers in 'Nam that a particular defoliant was safe? However, IF this scanner used ANY TOBACCO products, it would be considered too danerous for use!

The worst part is that these new procedures won't even stop the proven threats being employed by Al Qaeda and the like. None of these options will detect powdered explosives like the underwear bomber used. In short, it's all for show and won't actually keep us any safer at all.

Oh, and just to add injury to insult, if you balk and refuse, you can be fined up to $11,000 for 'leaving the screening area without permission', even if you are escorted out by security. The justification is to prevent terrorists from probing security and reporting back, but the penalty is just a civil suit, not detention or anything. Does anyone actually believe that a suicide bomber will be stopped by the threat of an $11,000 civil suit after his death?!?! This is just plain stupid, and abusive at that.

How are they going to handled small newborns? Pediatricians recommend against the exposure to any form of x-ray, unless medically necessary,until the child reaches at least one year of age.

I have no problem with them searching all luggage/carry ons and banning excess liquids from being carried aboard.

They have the means to use dogs, which are way more effective at finding drugs and explosives. I flew through Mexico City(layover) 2 months ago, and they lined up ALL luggage from incoming flights outside, and had dogs walk over it all and check for contraband(through a glass window, where all of us could watch). It's pathetic that Mexico has a better(less invasive), and more detailed inspection process than we do in the US.

I don't care if they pat me down, but I'm not going to subject my family(or myself) to any unnecessary excess radiation. They'd better make sure only females pat down females as well.

I fly international at least 3-4 times a year. I have no option take a train or drive a car.

I think the government is trying to monitor people traveling(leaving the US) with large amounts of $$

I agree with c smith here. If nothing else what's to prevent a bomber from placing explosives in a condom and sticking that where the sun don't shine. A female bomber could carry twice as much. I doubt it would take more than one or two bombers to bring enough material aboard the plane that way to bring it down.

So how does all this invasive stuff protect us more than what we had before? All it seems to me is make it a little more uncomfortable for the bomber for the amount of time it takes to go through security.

It seems to me that all this is really useless until they can sniff out explosives and then they won't need these scanners anymore anyway. The sniffers and metal detectors should be all we need then.

I'd like to see the stats on the effectiveness of these "security measures" re: checking passengers.

The real threats are going to be sent in packages and unaccompanied by humans, as evidenced by the latest (the beombs coming out of Yemen)

Some of you should look up the term "ALARA". It is based on the premise that there is NO safe limit on ionizing radiation. The only consideration to look at when receiving radiation "is do the benefits out way the risks". All I can say is for me they don't. I will either get a pat down or not fly.

They should use dogs. OR do what the Israeli's do. But no, PC is more important than lives.

If it wasn't for the idiotic libs we would do profiling as the Israelis do. Bot no we have to be politically correct and inconvenience all citizens and spend hundreds of millions on questionable equipment. It is worth it though so we don't hurt anyone's feelings. All of this crap and we do not secure our borders. Duh

Unfortunately, we have to treat Joe Blow, who travels monthly for legitimate business, the same way we treat Abdulah, who's taking a one-way trip to Pakistan with a time-line for return ticket unknown. But hey, we don't wanna profile those terrorists or get any turbans in a knot!

Wouldn't Joe Blow be the perfect person for the terrorists to co-opt and use in an attack, since you've already admittedly you don't suspect him and wouldn't check him?

And the 9/11 flights were from Boston to LA, DC to LA, and Newark to San Francisco. Not one-way trips to Pakistan.

The problem with profiling is that there is absolutely nothing prevent terrorists from simply finding somebody who doesn't fit the profile.

I have preached that the radiation from these are in question for months.

I am not a tea party member, but I really find your comment idiotic when you try and pin this to a specific political affiliation to be honest.

The government doesnt care about your health, if they did they would have banned GMO foods and 95 percent of all the drugs currently on the market. It's about money and the false sense of security people now have flying which in turn brings up the amount of people willing to fly. Again, money.

The reverse of these invasive body scan is if everyone decides NOT to fly, we the taxpayers will most likely pay for it regardless with another taxpayer bailout.

We the People will be screwed either way we turn and that is a great summary of our government in action these days.

TSA has requested nearly $8.2 billion in funding from taxpayers for 2011. This is *in addition* to the small fee each passenger pays. I can't find any info on how many, or what percentage, of threats were found/prevented in American citizens traveling *within* our borders; the threats I have read about all originate outside our country. It seems this expense and effort would be better used scanning "imports" and "immigrants" at our borders and ports.

Where is the Tea Party? On the House floor speaking up about sweetheart deals for the scanners:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-dpkJZiOM

Also see post #32 below, I'm doing my part.

It is ridiculous. It makes flying a very unattractive option of travel. Why have we become so insane with fear? So our children have to either be exposed to radiation or patted down in their private parts in order to travel? There are other ways to ensure safety.

I really do not understand what is the big issue here. All that people that have reported incident with TSA are attention hungry people. Who in the right mind will set up a camera on record mode and record "their incident" so the they can get attention to the issue at hand. All of them lately have being from on group or another against goverment rule. I know that some times things happen that we dont agree with. Dont set the blame on the individuals working with the TSA, they are following the rules that are issue to them. For each one of the attention getters there are thousands that fly every day without incident or concern.

Since all sanity seems absent from the discussion, let's suppose a great number of American citizens will be "patted down" like law-breakers for the sake of false security over the upcoming Thanksgiving weekend. The protests and time it will take ensures late flights from the airports.

Where obviously there is nothing (aside from complaining) joe-blow can do about the advanced imaging scanners, a way to peacefully protest them is to put pieces of aluminum foil in the bottoms of their socks which will force TSOs to further investigate this "security breach" and back up available personnel. Or, they can change the rules of 'engagement'. Janet Nappy is clueless how to address this unforseen reaction to the latest gov't make-work policy for its TSO staff.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Better scanners than a bomb on your plane. Get over it people! As for x rays being harmful: every 6 months you go to a dentist and have your teeth/head xrayed, or you go to a doctor for x rays, plus naturally occuring sources. Her are the average statistics for a persons exposure:

"The following figure shows the percentage contribution that various radiation sources make toward the yearly average effective dose received by the U.S. population (NCRP Report No. 93).

• Radon: 55%
• Natural Sources (excluding Radon): 26%
• Medical X-rays: 11%
• Nuclear Medicine: 4%
• Consumer Products: 3%
• Other: <1%"

This means that a whopping 81% of x ray exposure occurs from Radon and other Naturally occuring sources. Your exposure during a brief scan is minimal. If you are like most people you go to the airport once or twice a year for vacation. You would have to be traveling through airports every single day of the year for it to be of any concern.

I'll take an x ray scan over a bomb on my plane or a physical pat down any day.

I agree with everyone who is against these scanners and extensive pat downs. I feel this is an invasion of our privacy. I personally have health problems and have to go for chest x rays and ct scans quite often ,and that is more radiation then i need or want. I don't know what happened to this government and this once beautiful country. Not to get off the beaten path,bit ifeel this is as ridicculous as the hippa laws our government put into place claiming it is to protect the patient, a patient is best protected when loved ones are there during these times.

What about the people who fly weekly? It's like a dental assitant who doesn't take cover while x-raying a patients. As usual, the gov't downplays safety so they don't have to spend money and fix the problem.

I say forget all the x-raying and move to racial profiling. Save our health and time at security lines.

would you rather be felt up, looked at or blown up in a plane ? theses measures are being taken for our safety.

Guess U'd rather die by a bomb going off in mid flight No search NO FLY just that simple & if that protest goes off on the holidays I hope all are fine the $11,000 as per law

Why couldn't they just use metal detectors and trained sniffing dogs? Would be less embarrassing and less of a health issue, probably cheaper too. Those scanners most likely cost a lot, plus the personel for the pat downs. Dogs only need to be trained (might cost a lot to start) but then they don't collect a salary. Dogs are happy to be fed, given treats, and walked. Dogs are probably more thorough than any scanner or pat down and less embarrassing. So a combination of metal dectectors and trained sniffing dogs, in my opinion, would be cheaper, less embarrassing, and safer. Why was this alternative not used?

Airline pilots get these screenings once a day for 15 or so a month. This is purely unacceptable especially given the exclusive prior backround checks and responsibility of the safety of each flight.

The TSA has must relearn what really works. That is a completely sealed flight deck from the cabin, intelligent and attentive agents watching every move of passengers while in security lines, intelligent and attentive scanners to find potentially catastrophic components in luggage AND bomb sniffing dogs that penetrate every aisle of every flight and every cargo checked baggage before it leaves the gate.

Anything less is just adult hide and seek, which does not work, violates personal rights, gives too much power to unintelligent TSA agents and asks for the next round of serious trouble.



Really? This is hilarious. I just have one question. Will the TSA be sharing my X-Rays with my HMO under the new ObamaCare program in an effort to reduce the costs on my free health care plan?

Let’s take another look at the words in this article because it’s just a brilliant example of how far off the beam this country has gotten. “While the risk of getting (fatal cancer) from ‘Radiation Exposure’ is minimal…no, make that miniscule…”

Not to worry, due to the miniscule nature of the situation, a team of Biochemistry and Biophysics professors at the University of California have taken the precautionary measure to write the FDA a letter stating they are unanimous in believing that modifications to reduce the Radiation Exposure needs to be explored ASAP.

So…the FDA said they have reviewed the Radiation Exposure Technology (that’s RET, like IED) that causes minimal, no, miniscule risk of ‘Fatal’ cancer, along with several other government supported special interest groups that were assembled to analyze the RADIATION SAFETY ISSUES that were written by…the FDA. It’s a good thing we have an organization like the FDA that has the integrity to review the findings they found under the guidelines of finding findings that they founded. Umm…published findings please.

Let’s face it. This is a big money product launch and we have to get a Return On Investment, for all of us. That’s who my money’s on, because they’re gonna win. You have to remember, there are serious political contributions and special interest groups involved here and those people need bonuses, I mean jobs.

Hey, don’t get me wrong. I’m fine with the whole Radiation Exposure thing. The only problem with it is that I just don’t remember voting on anything that subjected me to Radiation Exposure before traveling. (It must have been all those mini vodka bottles I took off the plane. Oh, no…they don’t have those anymore. Besides, I was getting on the plane, or at least trying to. I must have brought my own, but I got busted at the Radiation Exposure Technology device). More lost revenues for the TSA due to low liquor sales. I’m such a selfish human being…which reminds me…I’m human. Being human, I like getting my Radiation Exposure when I have to wait until it’s too late for my lawyers, insurance company and doctors to authorize it under very specific and limited conditions while paying out the ass for it.

Well, I feel much better knowing that I’m being protected from the terrorists. But for the grace of God, there go I, a passenger on the way to Hell in a handbasket, with everybody else. I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Everyone needs to stop flying... I did 25 years ago.... If i go somewhere its by boat or ship... or drive there.... If everyone can't stop flying, Then give flyers a big discount for the invasion of privacy... or find another solution.... Question??? Does the president get patted down when he goes through the airport????

I am not unsympathetic to the issues of privacy, and I certainly can understand how foolish it seems to pat down the elderly, etc. However, no one would have expected that man to put explosives in his underwear, and it has been pretty much proven that those who wish to blow up planes or other wise harm everyone in their paths for the delusional causes of terrorism, are of every color and race. We can not be lulled into a false sense of security. I dont like the idea, it is invasive, but honestly, I would rather have an xray showing my naughty bits, and EVERYONE ELSES BITS in an attempt to prevent being blown to bits. You tell me if you would regret not having had everyone scanned on a flight if some one slipped by security with a bomb in his jockey shorts. Comparing a security issue with Rosa Parks is not accurate description of our national situation. That was racism. We have no choice but to treat everyone the same now. To conclude, I would like to know why pilots are being told not to scan? Is this for every single flight or just to gain entry? There should be some clarification to these guidelines.

So please tell me .... we spend BILLIONS of dollars for the scanners and have the option of a personal "massage" to make sure we lambs are not threats.

BUT can someone from the TSA or Government please answer if ANY of these techniques have ACTUALLY caught ONE Terrorist within the USA trying to take down a plane???????

Please no PC crap replies- just a name of an actual terrorist- OTHERWISE this search, seisure, and scan are complete crap! so the equation is one terrorist is worth BILLIONS and we are worth $0.00 with the higher chance of getting some form of cancer.

Someone from the TSA or Government only please reply.

Kudos, JP-1897883, you saved me the lengthy post. You obviously know what you are talking about.

My wife has worked in a hospital xray department since 1983, 22 of those years as a supervisor. I was concerned over her exposure while she was pregnant with two of our children, especially since she would be exposed to X-rays several times per hour. Of course the technicians are well protected, but since xray technicians are educated in the physics behind xrays, she educated me as well. The risk from the miniscule amount of exposure plane travelers will experience is not worth worrying about. This "scare tactic" is just an excuse to push their agenda, and any reasonable adult will see through that.

The statistic about radon amused me. With my wife's background in the physics of radiation, I found the level of hysteria over radon levels (back when they the "big scare" about that) quite amusing. We have been exposed to radon since we lived in caves. There's nothing you can do about it, it's natural. Yet the sheepies fell for the BS, and a whole industry (Radon Detectors, Radon Inspectors, Radon "Proofing" Basements, etc.) sprang up to scam money from the imbeciles too ignorant to know better. I fear that's what will happen here. The final conscious thought of the passengers as their plane goes down will be, "Damn, we shouldn't have listened to those jerks and stopped airport security......!"

OMG you're all a bunch of F'ing IDIOTS!...so lets go back to smoking on planes and no baggage checks. If the damn plane blows up or you get lung cancer from second hand smoke, you can't collect on your life insurance. It's very simple...DON'T F'N FLY IF YOU DON'T WANT THE F'N XRAY or a patdown. Drive ya butt where ever you want to go. No one will MISS you! No one else will see the xray except that one person and no name or I.D. will be attached to it. Why would you get offended?!?! You're NOT going to get cancer from it. Maybe if you flew 3 times a day, 7 days a week I'd be concerned. Come on people. This is just something else for people to yap about. Are there THAT many people that sneak stuff in sneaky places?!?!? For God sakes let it rest.

ONC NURSE:

When a terrorist has hidden a bomb in his anal cavity- I bet you will be the first to freely volunteer to have the TSA put a hand up your $ss to see if you are carrying a bomb.

so for God's sake you cannot complain- enjoy the free fisting and public humility- but don't say a word- IT IS FOR SECURITY that SOMEONE MIGHT bring down a plane.

ENJOY!

I am a radiologic technologist who does xrays and cat scans on a daily basis, I try to reduce my exposure everday and feel it is unfair to be exposed to unecessary radiation when I travel, no matter how low they feel the exposure is, it is still a risk

Hey, I have an idea. Why don't we all just start wearing our bikini and speedo swimware under some shorts and T-shirts and then strip down to the swimwear when called upon. Like going to the beach. Now then, no need for the x-ray or pat down's, right?

Kinda like everybody is doing by wearing flipflops so we don't have to remove our tied shoe's.

Problem solved!

What all of you guys are missing is that

1) new "transmission" body scanners produce "see through" images - no body contours, no porn scan - but a medical quality radiographs that allow identification of items inserted into body cavities, shoe heels, prosthetics etc. Its only the "back scatter" and "millimeter wave" instruments that show the naked images. A company called Valley Forge Composites Technologies makes the latter, but their instrument is not deployed yet presumably because they don't have a big time lobbying budget (not sure why, exactly).

2) As per ANSI N43.17 radiation safety limits established by the NIST, the maximum dose any of these instruments can use is 0.25uSv/scan which is equivalent to a mere 5 minutes of cosmic radiation you all receive at 30,000 feet in an airplane.

If naked imaging is the problem - we need to switch to transmission instruments. If the radiation is the problem, we need to eliminate flying in the first place - since the flight itself imposes several hundred times more radiation depending on the distance flown. Or would we rather be blown out of the sky at 30,000 feet on a regular basis? The chances of this happening are low PRECISELY because we implement good security systems - so the 1 in 30 million statistic comparison is very misleading (think about it). Eliminate these security measures, and see what happens. You same people will then be bitterly complaining about how the government is not doing enough to protect the flying public.

what about pregnant women. if they go through the full body scanner that endangers the baby. and frequent flyers will be exposed to xray radiation way to much. any doctor will tell you that that is dangerous.

What my concerns have been if you have already been diagnosed with a previous cancer, and you travel on the average by air several times a year, what accumulations of radiation could afffect the risks of causing a recurrence of ones cancer?

If you are that concerned with the x-rays then you better not fly, because you are getting about the same dose every 2 mins of flight at 30,000 ft in the plane.

Just my quick points:

Invasion of privacy: Seriously, get over it. Or throw a hissy fit the next time your doctor asks you to put on a gown, and demand he perform a physical without touching or seeing you. You're being pompous, presumptuous and preposterous in a situation that calls for you to be pragmatic.

Ill effects of radiation: No study or statistics means there's no basis for argument. That being said, someone probably should have mentioned that before installing them. Hundreds of millions of dollars probably managed to circumvent that argument in Washington though.

Alternate methods of security: Those entities who train drug dogs don't have hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby for their cause.

In closing: The terrorists win on this one. Even if they never manage to down, damage, or even threaten a single domestic flight again, remember, killing us is not their only item on their agenda. Draining our economy and bringing our country to ruin is. They have not only instilled doubt/fear in our ability to prevent their attacks, but they have forced us to spend billions and billions of dollars that have stopped...... how many attacks?

I, too, would be interested to know.

This isn't about public safety or unsafe radiation exposure.

The U.S. Gov't and big business are using 911 as a means to slowly take away our privacy, freedom and civil liberties under the disguise of national security.

For those who have no problem with what the airports are now doing, I ask you, what are you going to do when your local Wal-Mart, Shopping Mall's, NFL games, NHL games, MLB games, Grocery Stores, Gov't offices and drinking holes all start doing body scans and pat downs to enter? Or how about your kids schools doing body scans and pat downs of your kids everyday?

Think this won't happen? Wait until the next event happens. You will hear even more talk about needing more protection. Why? Because as long as they keep the fear alive, they can get you to buy into what they want.

You know what is really strange? George Soros owned 11,300 shares of stock in the company that makes these body scanners. Imagine that? I say he did...because he sold them off the other day. Ummmm!!! I wonder why?

Apples and oranges and much oversimplification, counter. There is a huge difference between receiving a medical examination by a doctor I've developed a trusted relationship with over years and being groped by someone whose name I don't know, have never met before, have no knowlege of their qualifications, and who's job is advertised on pizza boxes.

"He calculated the risk of getting cancer from a single scan at about 1 in 30 million,"

That means about 50 people could die each year from these X-Ray scans.

Hardly comforting.

FYI,

Flyers receive more radiation from the flight itself than the x-ray scan. If you don't understand why... then you shouldn't be discussing this topic.

Put briefly, the sun emits a lot of radiation, but our atmosphere blocks most of that. When you fly, there's less atmophpere between you and the sun, therefore, your more exposed.

IF YOU'RE TRULY CONCERNED ABOUT CANCER, THEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE FLYING AT ALL!

As for the privacy controversy (cuz there really isn't one about the radiation), I am a tea-party supporter. To be more specific... I believe in both economic freedom, and personal freedom. You have the right to privacy in your home, and in a public setting. HOWEVER, flight is a service. It is run by an institution, and security is managed by the government. If you want to fly, you gotta follow the additional rules set on you. FLIGHT IS NOT A RIGHT! It is a service. Get the difference? I don't mind either the pat-down or the scan... as for children, as we saw in various wars, terrorists and enemy combatants are not above using children as living bombs. The terrorists have NOT WON you imbeciles! Your freedoms are still intact! I value the FREEDOM to LIFE more than the SERVICE of FLIGHT. What's more, these rules do not stop me from flying...

I totally understand the privacy argument, and the corruptions with the data storage in the machines is definitely bad. These definitely need to be fixed. But you have to remember, we have police on the roads to protect us from harmful drivers, we gotta have something to protect us from harmful flyers.

The PILOTS and STAFF should be exempt... It's absolutely ridiculous to assume that screening someone like the pilot for weapons would keep the passengers safe. Ridiculous.

I would rather die free than live with government control and the Bill of Rights ignored when it's convenient.

Then don't fly! Flight is a service, not a right. You have the right to your freedom and privacy and I'm an avid supporter of the idea that your house is your "castle" too, but what you fail to understand is that flight is in no way a right that we Americans are entitled to. It is a service we have enjoyed for a long time, but recently have suffered from. The fact that the US government is regulating flight does not overstep their boundaries onto civil rights. We have the right to our personal effects, right to privacy, right to life... FLIGHT has hurt this country because of the abuse on the system by terrorists. These rights ONLY APPLY if they do not impinge on the RIGHTS OF OTHERS.

Freedom from coercion, against NON COERCIVE ACTIONS! That is the lightest interpretation of civil liberty. In other words, we can do what we want, so long as what we're doing isn't stopping anyone else from enjoying that same right. By being light on security in airports (in respect for privacy), thousands of Americans lost their lives (right to life). The right to privacy of some has ended the right to life for others, therefore, rules are put in place to protect the right to life. YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE! It's not like the government is putting these things at every doorway that may or may not be protected. It's in airports! Airports because we're protecting the life and liberty of others.

Stop being a selfish jackass! I identify myself with the tea party... but this is one issue I heavily disagree with them on.

does not overstep their boundaries onto civil rights

K Chad Roberts, it most certainly does when the TSA can molest you in a way that would be a federal crime if anyone else did it.

Thats the whole point.

So, you don't have to have your junk felt up, you can always go through the cancer causing ionizing radiation contraption. Nice choice. How about thermal cameras? Anyone think of that?

Lets see, cancer or molestation.....

Next up, full body cavity searches and sheeple like you will just bend over and take it.

Enough is enough. Flying is something you have to do if your life requires you must travel by air and being subjected to this kind of search with no probable cause is exactly WHY the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution was written.

Welcome to being informed.....

K Chad:

If they were paying for/offering our flights, then they would have the right to dictate anything they want.

We pay for our flights and the airlines/TSA receives OUR tax money. It IS a service, but one that WE pay for. WE should have a say in whether the security measures are more smoke and mirrors, than effective measures.

Riddle me this, Chad. If dogs and other equally effective forms of less invasive/harmful security screening methods are available, then why aren't those methods being used?

So, you don't have to have your junk felt up, you can always go through the cancer causing ionizing radiation contraption.

You receive more radiation on the flight itself. If you are really concerned about that, then you shouldn't be flying.

How about thermal cameras? Anyone think of that?

For what? Thermal cameras are only good for detecting heat emitting items... In any case, sure, we should use those too. Couldn't hurt, and they're not too terribly expensive.

it most certainly does when the TSA can molest you in a way that would be a federal crime if anyone else did it.

Molest: harass or assault sexually; make indecent advances to

You're told ahead of time that if you refuse the scanner, you will go through this whole pat down thing. You have every ability to leave, you have every right to tell them to stop (and they will). In addition, these pat downs are not sexual. Yes, they're invasive... but if you get a sexual vibe off of them, then something is seriously wrong dude...

Next up, full body cavity searches and sheeple like you will just bend over and take it.

Wow... so much for civil debate.

this kind of search with no probable cause is exactly WHY the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution was written.

That's a very valid point. As many great men have said: Those who would give up a little liberty in order to gain a little security, would deserve neither, and loose both.

My point still stands however, Flight is not a right. People walking down the streets and going to work don't lose any liberties from this, and we're protecting the country. As for the people who HAVE to travel a lot by plane, what's wrong with the scanners? As I mentioned before... radiation is not a considerable factor, considering the exposure is far more when your actually flying.

If they were paying for/offering our flights, then they would have the right to dictate anything they want.

Hm... but what DOES the government pay for themselves? Nothing. So does that mean that traffic officers can't dictate either? How about immigration? Oh... that's right... they don't really do much about that any more. Look at what happened as a result?

Anyways, that's still a good point. We do pay for these services, but these services also didn't do anything voluntarily to fix the mess that happened on 9/11. I most certainly don't want something like that to happen again, and the organization responsible is employing new technologies to prevent it. Unless you have a better idea? As for dogs and the like, please... use them too! That type of search doesn't even slow the search process down.

WE should have a say in whether the security measures are more smoke and mirrors, than effective measures.

Hm, correct me if I'm wrong. Are you saying that the scanners aren't useful in weapons detection?

In any case, you do have a say. It's called elections. I know there's a lot of compromise involved with choosing your candidate, but you do have a say.

Riddle me this, Chad. If dogs and other equally effective forms of less invasive/harmful security screening methods are available, then why aren't those methods being used?

I have no idea. I'll be the first to say that the government is incompetent. We should be using these methods.

Now riddle me this: I strap a ceramic knife to my chest. Can a metal detector, infrared camera or dog detect that? Is a ceramic knife just as deadly as a metal knife? Do the new methods make it more difficult to sneak these things on board?

However... no matter the measures taken, I still contend that the enemy will be able to sneak the weapons on board. Therefore, I truly believe that there should be one of two things present on a plane:

1. An air marshal.

2. An armed and FULLY TRAINED AND LICENSED (in law enforcement) crew member/s

Yea... on every plane. We have traffic cops don't we? Unless we're going to have air cops in their own air planes that can "pull over" the misbehaving passenger plane... we gotta have some sort of enforcement on board.

Yes a terrorist could smuggle a ceramic knife before the scanners and try to get into a locked cockpit where a gun weilding pilot would shoot his ass, but you could also be hit by lighting and with a greater probability.

There's a point where things to too far. And this is it.

Pilots don't wield guns... they're not allowed to... that's the whole point of the last part of my post. In case you haven't heard, the PILOTS are being scanned. Scanning the pilots is going to far.

Yes a terrorist could smuggle a ceramic knife before the scanners and try to get into a locked cockpit where a gun weilding pilot would shoot his ass

Are you kidding? Pilots can't have guns. . . didn't you even read K Chad's post? He's arguing that they SHOULD have guns, and that the new scanners WOULD detect a ceramic knife. Unless it's shoved up their ass. . . in which case, that's why we need guns on the planes right?

Think before you speak Sybrsean

Oh I AM thinking. It's you who should think about taking your own advice.

http://www.debrajmsmith.com/washingtontimes.html

http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/ffdo.shtm

The latter states:

Under this program, eligible flight crewmembers are authorized by the Transportation Security Administration Office of Law Enforcement/Federal Air Marshal Service to use firearms to defend against an act of criminal violence or air piracy attempting to gain control of an aircraft. A flight crew member may be a pilot, flight engineer or navigator assigned to the flight.

That's good to hear, I didn't know such a program existed. In any case, it still doesn't put an armed official in every plane, it's just a program to train them. A step in the right direction I suppose.

*Humiliated* Thanks for setting me straight.

Just found this gem...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3yaqq9Jjb4&feature=player_embedded

Can it be confirmed? Not saying I don't believe it... but it'd make that video a whole lot more influential.

We do not really want to give lawyers another thing to pounce on, do we? I can just see the coming lawsuits for cancer patients in 5 years due to radiation from body scanners at airports. Who will they sue? The federal government? they will raise our taxes again to pay off the lawsuits!

Very good comments. I'm a retired radiologic technologist and I've also taught for nearly 30 years in the radiology technology program where I worked. Of even more concern than cancer when discussing the deleterious effects of ionizing radiation is the potential for harmful genetic effects. Current radiation protection philosophy states that there is no such thing as a safe dose of ionizing radiation in regard to the genetic effects. These effects may not manifest themselves for several generations so they'd be near impossible to track back to an origin. There are also certain somatic effects that have no threshold dose so, theoretically, even low doses can cause these to occur. These are known as stochastic effects .. they have no threshold dose .. and increasing doses make the occurrence of the event more likely. The effects of ionizing radiation are cumulative ... the less you get the better. Perhaps this can be compared to a game of russian roulette. The odds are in your favor but how do you know if you'll be the one to catch the bullet in the chamber? Enter at your own risk.

As a former DON radiation safety officer, I agree with the comments of Mark-2673181 and Seriously? No...Really?! All exposures to ionizing radiation are cumulative and their effects buildup over a lifetime, they never fade or go away. I could care less if someone sees a reverse exposure of my body naked. However, I will not knowlingly allow myself to be repeatedly exposed to ionizing radiation on the extremely low probability chance of preventing a suicidal idiot from boarding a plane. Any low life that's done jail time is familiar with smuggling contraband in body cavities. Neither full body scans or body pat downs will reveal explosive devices or non-metalic weapons concealed in body cavities. Subject all passengers to body cavity searches? I don't think so. As for me, I quit flying a couple years ago, because of the cumulative hassle effect. Enough was enough with the humiliating and ineffective security related nonsense.

That's great that it's 1/50th or 1/100th.... what about the frequent flyers who have to subjected to this abuse? I fly twice a week and have to go through this.

I've reported my concerns via TSA's feedback link on their website and it got me put on a watchlist after 4 years of flying. I can no longer check-in online or print my boarding pass via email. Instead I have to go to the ticketing counter or kisosk at the airport. Anybody could swipe my license and check-in for me. How sad is that? Then I just take the same boarding pass and same license to the TSA checkpoint. Ridiculous waste of time.

The sad part in all of this is that I've had government clearance!

The risk of getting cancer from a single exposure to the scanner's radiation may be minuscule, but so is the risk of dying in a terrorist attack that the scanners might prevent. It may well be the case that the scanners kill more Americans than terrorists would.

Given that, does it REALLY make sense to spend taxpayer dollars on these machines that make naked pictures of you that may well end up on the internet?

Irregardless of government assurances, I believe we will become a nation of cancer victims due to the accumulative effect of x-ray exposure. If this is not plausible or possible then the medical field has been wrong for many years, when warning us about over exposure.

The cummulative effect of radiation exposure is my chief concern here too. It's not so much me...maybe 2 trips a year...but what about those who travel a LOT? (Not to mention the flight crews.) I'm also concerned about young women of child bearing age. There has to be some way to do complete security background checks on people who crew the planes so they can be exempted from this type of screening.

Good points in your post. Calling the x-ray scanners safe based on the amount of radiation from a single exposure is like calling smoking safe based on the carcinogens ingested from a single cigarette.

Your really reaching with this rational. Radiation therapy is more than a thousand times the dosage and is now done in pinpoint areas. You do heal from radiation, it just takes a while. While you may have to pass through the scanners twice each trip you take, you also have the option of a pat down search which is only hazardous to your pride.

In addition to discussing and evaluating the effects of cumulative exposure, missing from the dialog is the question of the maximum level of radiation these machines can deliver.

As we have lately seen in the news, medical imaging equipment at many of our esteemed medical institutions has not been maintained within specification to deliver the lowest possible radiation dose – in fact many have been delivering dangerously high doses, all because the technicians and radiologists were not properly monitoring and maintaining the equipment and the manufactures did not build devices that physically prevented this possibility.

Consider now a security body scanner radiation source in the field – an uncontrolled environment where the equipment is subjected to bumps and jarring and is far more likely to go out of calibration and specification. These machines can easily deliver a MUCH larger dose of radiation than the amounts being used in the ‘is it safe’ debate which presumes the optimal case. In fact, some of the models being deployed share the same radiation source as equipment used to scan non-organic materials requiring much higher energy levels. These machines are not built with immutable hardware limiters on the maximum radiation the source can generate. Furthermore, a scanner delivering an unsafe level of radiation would never be detected, it would simple continue to dose thousands of unsuspecting passengers.

While scanners may be a part of life in the world we live in and something we all must abide, let us not allow ourselves to rush this current solution into use imperiling public safety. Putting these into use now only benefits the contractors making the equipment and allows the TSA to claim they are making the public safer. Regardless of the debate over the cosmic ray equivalence of a scan, until the scanners are made in such a way that it is physically impossible to deliver a dangerously high dose, it is irresponsible to put them into use.

Archangel,
Your statement of "You do heal from radiation" is incorrect. Although minor surface burns usually heal within 14 days. Severe radiation burns never heal (or you won't live long enough for them to heal). The bigger question here is not radiation burns; it's the damage on a cellular and chromo zonal level. They are permanent and can affect different people different ways. Believe me I'm speaking from experience.
Also look at posts 1.18, 2, 2.2, 2.3

Archangel,

Where is the evidence to back up your claim that you can heal from the genetic damage caused by ionizing radiation? Sure, if the radiation causes problems with a cell that is about to die anyways, perhaps it isn't such a bad thing. What happens if the genetic damage hits a stem cell, one (or several) of many required to repair and maintain your body? Perhaps it'll become a cancer, perhaps not. What happens if it affects an egg that a woman has in her body, that coincidentally goes onto become a child? A woman doesn't make eggs daily, the same ones are with her from birth til death, a finite amount. These are the risks with ionizing radiation.

What is the benefit? Terrorists don't board planes every day. Terrorists aren't even a significant threat compared to other annoyances such as missed flights or delays. If there is only 1 terrorist that tries to blow up a plane a year, and the solution is to treat millions of fliers like a terrorist to catch him/her, then your risk vs reward is too high, and you should probably try something else.

Besides, the last few times you've heard about a terrorist caught, where have they been and how have they been stopped? I'll give you hints; on the plane, and by passengers submitting a suitable beatdown upon them. The day the TSA catches someone at security that is an actual terrorist, I will happily eat my hat. Til then, they are a sham and a waste of our tax dollars.

An Imaging technologist with over two decades of experience, I can tell you there is NO level of radiation that is safe or other. Better educate yourselves re. ALARA [http://www.ncsu.edu/ehs/radiation/forms/alara.pdf ] and know there are many deceased people who received that "miniature" dosage which pushed them over the allowable threshold of 'accumulated' lifetime radiation. All ionizing radiation, therefore, is at your own risk.

MOST people do not have a clue about cosmic radiation that they are being exposed to from the stars, moon and sun. As a flight attendant for 24 years, OSHA has been kept out of the aviation business. They would have shut all the airlines down years ago, but they as well as other agencies should be looking at the big picture.and not the diversions i.e., catering,baggage and ANY ground personel.

Absolutey, I have worked around radiation in hospitals and college and have been required to wear a badge that is checked weekly to determine the current level of whole body radiation. When a certain level is reached then one is not allowed to receive additional radiation. Maybe we need to have an independent group use these badges and see what the level of radiation received really is.

Are the TSA officers willing to constantly go through the scanners? I seriously doubt they are any closer to the machines than they can get away with.

Ok seriously.... you know absolutely NOTHING about this machine.... you don't even know the level of radiation that this thing gives off... You are absolutely clueless and the only word you hear is ' radiation' and you know that its ' bad ' because someone once told you so.

What else is there that you touch everyday that gives off radiation? do you even know? because I am pretty sure that your microwave at home gives off more radiation than this scanner does..

Check the sticker on your microwave, everyone knows it gives off SOME radiation but do you know how much? Probably not... and why? Because you don't care, because as long as that thing heats up your popcorn, or keeps you from actually having to ' bake ' a meal. You don't need to care.

What about your cell phone? Doesn't that give off radiation? aren't you STILL using your cell phone? oh I am sure that you are.... we all know that cell phones give off radiation... straight to your head... but do you care? Probably not... will you still put it up to your head everytime you get a phone call? Of coarse you are... is this information going to stop you from using it? No...

Lets keep going shall we? we are CONSTANTLY surrounded by some form of Radiation to some degree.

Some smoke detectors.... although they are sealed fairly tight so that they don't leak...

Camping lanterns...old models carry 'Thorium' dangerous to inhale, beware of ash!

Watches... old watches, clocks, have dials painted in ' radium ' to make them glow in the dark...

Jewelry ... some gems are irradiated by the element Radium producing a color change. Some enameled form of Jewelry is glazed with Uranium oxide.

Pottery.... older pottery... found in antique stores are glazed with Uranium and when broken you can breathe it in..

Furniture, certain metal objects in the home are reported to be partly made of spent radioactive material...

Some of these things sit on or touch your skin CONSTANTLY.... can't wait to see you throw out all your jewelry, your furniture, your watch and smoke detectors and Microwaves.....

Hipocrites, all you care about is what someone else tells you. You don't do ANY research yourselves. Your all freaked out because your UN- Educated and thats no one elses fault but your own.....

Just an American-2159895

I don't really care i don't plane to go anywere that i cant't drive. If we have to go through this bull @!$%#. hen i wont fly. NEVER I'm not going to subject my self to being treted like a terrorist.If they want to use this find another way.

HAHAHA! I'm sorry, but I'm hard pressed to think of a 6-figure job where you aren't expected to travel via plane at least a few times out of the year.

I love the "...well just don't do it" sort of half-hearted responses that are prolific on the tubes.

Of course there are always alternatives, but I think that it is important that we try to be as safe and realistic about how we operate...not just implement changes in a haphazard fashion, only to cringe at the fallout later.

When I travel, I need to get to my destination in the least amount of time, that's business! I don't have 1-2 days to travel across country via train or car. I need to be fresh and ready at my destination ASAP.

Considering that 90% of all terrorists come out of a handful of backwater countries, I see no reason for all of our PC behavior in how we try to protect ourselves.

It's time that we take a page from El Al (which has never been successfully attacked by terrorists). They make no bones about their profiling. If you come from a place like Yemen or Pakistan, if you have an Arab-sounding name, or even just look a little shifty, YOU WILL GET CHECKED EXTRA! If their interviewer doesn't like the way you answer the questions, you may not board at all!

I'm not talking about throwing away freedoms! What the TSA is doing IS trampling on our freedom, and we are throwing our health and privacy to the wind because we would like to maintain the illusion that we are safe, when in fact our idiot TSA has let DNF-names cross through checks on multiple occasions!

It's aggravating to say the least! We really are going about this in the wrong manner. And lately, I don't trust FDA decisions on safety given how they are bought and paid for by the private sector for almost 20years!

I agree, and I will fly as soon as Janet Napolitano gives up her private planes, and goes through the scanner and they post her scan online for everyone too see.

In other words, put your money where your mouth is or go find a new job. Any TSA Agent that touches my "junk" will be arrested if even a citizens arrested for sexual assault.

I haven't flown since air travel became a stockyard experience in order to ride a sardine can with tacked on fees out of the wahzoo. Nothing-nothing!- missed here! The environment would improve 90% if more planes were grounded!

Go Amtrack!

You can't get a train where I live. And driving just from one major town to another is about 3-4 hours. Which I do. But if I want to go to another state or country there is no other choice. We should do as the Israeli's do. Now you have to get to the airport hours in advance ,the whole thing is stupid. What about pregnant women? I really hate that we are in this position.

Go Amtrak? HAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, you don't travel on business very often.

Amtrak stinks, they're late routinely and are terrible about scheduling that's at all valuable.

I'm intrigued by highspeed rail, but our politicians are so corrupt that money is being spent even though not a single piece of track has been laid (with no change in sight).

We need to have safe flights, but the TSA is grossly incompetent, and there are still gaping holes in our security process.

Exposing people repeatedly to radiation is not the answer! All too often, people on the Do Not Fly list make it right through screeners, meanwhile, we're pulling old ladies out of line and saving naked pictures of people to oggle later. It's ridiculous.

what part of... it doesn't take a picture of your nude body do you NOT understand? it is a outline of your body filled in and it looks FUZZY it is meant to see WEAPONS not your private areas. Your ridiculous. Get a clue.

Heather Kav
what part of... it doesn't take a picture of your nude body do you NOT understand? it is a outline of your body filled in and it looks FUZZY it is meant to see WEAPONS not your private areas. Your ridiculous. Get a clue.

You may want to revise your statement after you see the following:

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-providence/tsa-full-body-scanner-at-t-f-green-airport-invasion-of-privacy-how-much-is-visible-videohttp://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/02/fatwa-forbids-muslims-going-through-full-body-scanners/1

http://cityofatlantic.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/full-body-airport-scanners/

Seems rather revealing to me. Also, note that these images are NOT deleted after use like we were all told considering the recent story about hundreds of saved images

They won't go... we'll all just groped instead.

I did read recently of man who refused scanning machine, was invited to a pat down... he decided to bail and by leaving the airport without finishing security is now FINABLE.

You don't GET to say now once you start the security process. You are hostage. Then sued! All for deciding this screening mess WAS a pretty good reason to rent a car.

Ridiculous. Scary. I hope to have no need to fly... I hope for access to private planes.

Those fines are the beginning of nazism in our country. Wake up ACLU and protect our rights before it is too late.

Opponent: The guy you are referring to is John Tyner and he didn't "bail."

Mr. Tyner refused the naked body scanner (that CAN/DOES store images of your naked body as demonstrated by the example of the federal courthouse in Florida that has stored over 30,000 images), he then refused the invasive genital-grabbing-booty-tapping pat-down (that's right, they give all your privates a good squeeze just to remind you that you are a slave and they are your masters....oh wait, i forgot, they are looking for suicide bombers with bombs implanted in their breasts...), and was then told by a TSA supervisor and two other TSA personnel at the checkpoint to leave as he would not be allowed to cross the checkpoint.

He then went back out to the booking counters and got a refund of his ticket from the airline. At that time another TSA super who he hadn't seen before came up to him and told him that he would need to return to the checkpoint or face an $11,000 civil fine. He told them to sit and spin and he left the airport.

The reason they are trying to fine him is because the TSA super and agents who told him to leave the checkpoint actually broke their own regulation by telling him to leave and since those morons don't want to get into trouble, they are blaming him. Fortunately Mr. Tyner was recording audio and video with his smart phone so he will be able to demonstrate that he was doing what he was told to do and that those TSA thugs and goons are the idiots to blame.

Everyone else:

Protect yourselves and record what they tell you if you want to refuse things.

Personally, I think this issue rests on an extremely slippery slope that should not be mired in partisan politics and lunges for the jugular of the opposing party; whoever that party happens to be for the reader of this. I mean, honestly, where will it end??

There was the shoe bomber;now we are forced to take our shoes off at checkpoints and walk across a patch of ground that literally thousands of other barefoot people have walked on (think about all that athlete's foot and other fungi and sickness that could be right there under your feet..).

There was the underwear bomber;now we have the TSA sticking their hands down the pants of our wives, children, fathers and mothers and fondling their breasts and genitals and tapping their bottoms (& BTW, they don't change gloves after going "fishing" in each person's pants...can we say; hepatitis, crabs, etc..).

Next some extremist CIA patsy will cram a grenade up their derriere and we will all be having proctology exams conducted by some minimum wage government lackey with an inferiority complex and a hard-on for demeaning and hassling AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!

This is ludicrous and totally beyond the pale of acceptability. If we refuse to be bombarded with harmful radiation from their naked body, porno-scanners then they get a free pass to molest you? How absurd!

If someone stuck their hands in your pants or your wife's pants, or your child's pants in a public park, you would no doubt charge them with sexual assault that could land them in the SLAMMER for up to 15 years and possibly on a sexual predator watchlist; and HERE WE ARE giving permission for someone who is making a minimum wage paycheck and had GODONLYKNOWS what kind of background screening to fondle our wives, children and ourselves!

Wake up and smell the autocracy my fellow Americans.

If we aren't vigilant and careful, they will be locking up the people who refuse to take this type of blatant abuse any more and who stand up for their rights in internment camps ...Just like in 1942 when we put all people of Japanese decent living on the west coast into "War Relocation" camps in and made them live and work like slaves.

Kind of hard to say it's YOUR image when they don't image your head! Do these images show fingerprints, DNA, etc.? They don't show your dental records. Regardless of your conspiracy theories (if the computers at my wife's hospital can't hold scanned images of just their patients and have to keep purging them every few years, what the hell is the TSA going to do with all the scans of all the travelers at every airport in the entire country?), I agree that scanning and pat-downs are useless. Scanners can't detect, and friskers can't feel, a well-hidden explosive. Personally, rather than billions of dollars in equipment, I would rather see explosive sniffing dogs screening us as we walk through airport boarding gates. I have much more faith in their amazing abilities than scanners and pat-downs. But of course, you'll still have people complain about that too. Especially the very people we're trying to protect ourselves from; extremist Muslims. Dogs are "unclean" and "against their religion." Their politically correct "religious freedom" would work to protect the terrorist with explosives hidden in his underwear, shoes, etc. Then you would also have those looking for their 15 minutes of fame making a huge fuss at the gate. "Your big mean dog is scaring my baby!" while the other parent records the incident on their cellphone to post on YouTube. Let's face it, we've already lost this battle, because the terrorists only need to read these vines to know how stupid we all are.

Amazing how your all crying about being scanned by a totally UN-EVASIVE device... why don't you google the device and see what the pictures look like. Seriously... go do it.

Keep crying and ' it will only get worse' ' wait till some guy crams a bomb up his darry aire ' yeah you know what? You cried for safety in the skies, you cried for someone to search people so that the guy who brings a bomb on the flight with it in his shoe doesn't kill you before you can make it home for your sons birthday party.

You cried so that 911 wouldn't happen again, so that terrorists couldn't take your innocent life while you were in the sky hopeless to do nothing and die.

You cried over and over to protect you from people like this. And now there doing it, they are patting EVERYONE down and you take offense and take it personal. They are making sure EVERYONE is safe and you get angry because you feel your rights are being violated.

This isnt about YOU this is about EVERYONE this is about SAFETY and the right to protect our rights... remember the right to LIFE. Yeah we all have it.

These people are putting up with your bull@!$%#. JUST so that you can fly away from them and fly safely, these people are getting paid to pat you down to protect the lives of hundreds maybe thousands of other people. But you just care about YOU....

Who cares if theres a bomb on the plane, I don't want to be patted down... *cries like a baby* who cares if some wacko has a bomb strapped to his inner thigh

I SERIOUSLY doubt that 30,000 feet when that guy tells you to say goodbye, that you are going to go ' well.... i guess its my time to go '... your going to be crying like a baby saying ' Why didn't the TSA protect me !! '

You know whos fault all this terrorism is? It's each one of us... for not allowing everyone to be protected because we are POMPUS and ARROGANT..

Screw everyone else as long as YOUR happy.

No wonder we are not 'United' at all.... no wonder this country is going to hell. Because of self centered incompetant people all over the United States that wont take ONE second to protect the lives of others, because they are ' uncomfortabe ' for no reason. when I'm sure that a million people have seen you naked and couldn't care LESS..

get over yourselves.

Heather:

The scan won't show a bomb device in a body cavity, only what is on the outside of the body. Your argument for the continuation of such a procedure is not logical. There is such a Constitutional right against unreasonable search and seizures in this country, no matter what threats come about.

We have lived in the atmosphere of fear since 9/11 and will continue to do so. These procedures are not the answer.

If enough people start refusing both, the airlines will start losing more money and the government will be forced to change this or see a huge amount of people losing their jobs.. Take another type of transportation until this changes.

I don't sound like the airlines are thrilled with all this either- they don't want to be alienating the passengers they have left.

Except each time you exercise your right to refuse this accostation, you're fined $10,000!

Again, where the hell is the ACLU and all the "civil libertarians"? I guess having your privates manhandled for no reason is just peachy fine. Just don't wear a t-shirt with a cross or a gun to school, that is completely over the line.

And explain to me how you bought a ticket and went to the airport not knowing you had to be searched?

If you HAVE to fly, and don't like the security, you have bitchen' rights, but be up front with that. Not the "OMG! Before I could get on my plane, I had to go through a security checkpoint!!! Would you believe it!!!"

Before you fly, decide in advance which type of screening you will choose of the choices provided. And then deal with it!

Metal detector - fine.

Irradiated via x-rays and naked pictures recorded. - not fine.

Patdown similar to sexual abuse - not fine.

Why not chain down passengers to their chairs during the flight? That would prevent someone from trying to light their shoes or their crotch. Sedate all passengers. Confiscate all materials. Force them to fly in prison jumpsuits. That's where this road leads, since damn near everything is a weapon in the right hands, even a shirt (strangulation).

Everything the TSA has implemented has been reactionary. Guy tries to light his shoes, now we take off our shoes. Guy tries to light his crotch, now we're basically being strip searched. Toner cartridge looks like a bomb, now you can't carry on a toner cartridge (as if many people did to begin with). Is there anything the TSA has done that has been effective BEFORE the attempts are made? Also, please enumerate the effectiveness of their processes; how many terrorists have been caught at Security?

Frankly, I'm done flying. I never liked theater anyways.

Why are you waiting for the Tea Party? Why aren't you doing something other than posting on this blog? Let your politicians know how absoulately invasive, embarassing for all involved, and absurd this entire matter is.

They are out there and probably a lot of them on this site. Most of the ones I know don't refer to themselves as tea partiers. They are simply conservative, Constitutionlist minded Americans. You may want to read the Constiution again. We are protected from illegal search and seizures in this Country. These measures should be illegal. They are completely invasive and punish all for this sins of a few and probably don't work well anyway. How would you everyone feel if cops started just randomly coming into your house because to them "you look suspicious". They will say it is for the good of many and most will agree. IT IS ILLEGAL!!!! Can we say probable cause folks!!!!!

Another method to put bombs on an airline was to implant dogs with bombs and ship them to desired destination, however, surgery was so crudely done that the animals died and the bombs didn't detonate. I read this a couple years ago, but it was never widely reported. Maybe we shouldn't be allow to ship animals unless they are x-rayed as well. Poor dogs :-(

Thats my opinion too. FDA is worthless to the people and has degraded into a corporate tool. I stopped trusting them when they rejected vaporizer cigarettes. Do they want us to die? Seems so. And marijuana FFS legalize it.

As an 80 yr. old with Us passport & white hair , If pacemaker/defrib can't go thru & groping is refused, (depends on groper) why not profile?

Allen I can comment on this as a I had my second pacemaker/defibulator implanted in Sept. I called Medtronic the manufacture of my implant and they said that they know of no issue with the x ray machines, there are issues with the wands that are used for stand alone metal detection and they stated to me that I could go through the magnometer as long as i did not stop inside it but the chances that it will go off are great which will get you a pat down or x ray scan. I just try to drive or train where ever I have to travel to which is fine as long as it's inside the US but screws me if it's overseas.

Re: Effect on pacemakers. Your pace maker is set by the doctors with a magnet. my understanding of them would be that an MRI or magnetic based instrument could be of more concern to you. Xrays would likely have no effect on your pacemaker. Call your cardiologist if you are still concerned.

Ivan Cherkanof #8,

I was just thinking about the bomb-sniffing dogs before getting to your post. But then again, the government isn't known for subscribing to the KISS principle.

Agreed. I would much rather have a dog sniffing my crotch than some loser mall cop.

But Ivan, that would be smart! We can't have the government looking smart, can we?

Drug and bomb dogs are standard at our borders, why not at our airports?

It's such a shame what the terrorists did to us, no question they hurt us and made us afraid, which is their job. Now we are doing these things to ourselves, and letting it happen. We gave up freedom for a false sense of security.

I think the millions spent should be redirected to our true front line, this nation's border. How many illegal aliens cross our "line of sovereignty" on a daily basis? Are they x-rayed? No. Are they patted down? Only if they get caught, which is another one in a million chance.

I think I'll take my chances of winning the lottery, and being a private jet. In the mean time I write my congressman weekly, so far no joy.

So are they TTC whilst in these body scanners?

I'm pregnant and travel twice a week for work. I am very concerned about radiation exposure. I was subjected to the body scanner a few weeks ago. When I announced that i was pregnant and wanted to go through the metal detector instead and any pat down they require, the TSA agent gave me attitude and told me that it's no big deal and it's the same radiation amount as watching an hour of TV. Radiation is radiation. It's was more of a hassle for them to deal with the pregnant lady than to have me cry as I went through the body scanner. I sent a complaint to the TSA and again got dismissed with no appology. Not too happy with them. There are so many other loopholes in their security. They are never one step ahead of the problem, they are always one step behind.

Yes, what about all the pregnant women, let alone, the little ones, who go through airports. Are future generations going to have major medical problems, because the "Great" USA can't get its head out of its A** and figure out something better to use. My children are little and go to visit grandparents every summer. Do they have to get a full-body scan or excuse me get possibly molested, due to getting a pat down instead?

ur right. I don't care you wanna look go ahead!! My face ain't there, so if all is copasetic its no problem. The alternative is some nit wit with tubes of a certain military explosive, does not have to be c-4 or semtex, shoved up his azz. Hey, he's on a 1 way trip. The Gov is aware of this-i hope- coz its the only way NOT tried. An X-ray machine would pick that up.

RebelYell173
The x-ray machine that they use is just to check under the cloaths. It will not find stuff in the body cavity. The pat down won't either. Dog's may though.

maybe if the repukes would let them do it, we should have high speed rail. Why are we so far behind in things like this? I cannot believe the Chicoms are building a pretty decent size city powered by solar energy. WTF?? A whole city..they are killing us, rot starts from within and this go 'round the scumbags finish off the middle class while enriching themselves. Hey Slick Willy, YOU signed that NAFTA treaty, and its part of the ruination of this country's workers.

Bianca, you need to go to http://www.bt.cdc.gov/radiation/prenatal.asp or a similar site and understand the risks of exposing a fetus to radiation.

Here's another for you . . . .

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~ Benjamin Franklin

Will,

Judging by your ability to "mouth off" against someone trying to refresh the public's memory of the bedrock that this great REPUBLIC called America was founded on; I would argue that it is you, sir, who are the loud mouth who has no follow through.

And just to be clear, Patrick Henry did not lay down his life in the heated pursuit of liberty; however he did stand up to the tyranny of the British and lead militiamen in Virginia. He died of failing health and old age.

When you suggest for Sybersean to laydown his life in pursuit of liberty what do you mean by that? The revolution has not come to the point of armed conflict and resistance yet and hopefully WE THE PEOPLE can steer those jokers in Washington back on course before it is too late.

Why would you lay your life down before the real game begins?

Unfortunately, the extreme liberal (progressive) left in this country want us to lose our freedoms or the are too stupid to realize that the path they want to take this county down will ultimately cost us just that.

Funny, Cassy, the posts I've read on various boards on this subject seem to align differently - conservs say these intrusions are necessary for safety, libs say TSA is going too far.

Will-484010

Okay, Sybrsean, instead of a body scan or a pat down, choose death. Come on, be a real Patrick Henry, not some wannabe. Put your life where your mouth is. Patrick Henry did lay down his life for liberty. You, on the other hand, just shoot your mouth off. How about, right after the pat down, you poison yourself. Then I will respent your quoting of Patrick Henry. Sigh, another loud mouth without any follow through.

Wow, you are one seriously @#$#@$ up individual. I served my country in the Army National Gaurd for 8 years after swearing the following oath:

"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Here is the purpose of the Constitution which I did and shall defend:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I PUT UP, now you should SHUT UP (even though I was willing to lay down my life to preserve your right to be a douchebag).

The republicans that are for such invasive searches are the party RINO's or NeoCons. It's obvious that the Progressives are for scanning or Obama and Pelosi would have circled the wagons to stop this TSA program.

Sorry I don't get why you various people what to assign everything to a Party. Don't you belive people think for themselves anymore???

This isn't a partisan issue.

Very good assessment!!! I would never use air travel unless absolutely necessary. I wish others would boycott but I doubt it will ever happen. There is way to much unnecessary travel anyway. Use trains! Oh I forgot we screwed that up too!

When you relinquish your freedoms in the name of safety, you are neither safe or free. That is FACT.

Totally boycotted here... drive only... anytime someone HAS to fly for work, work has their own plane.

Well said Susan, thank you

Wish I could give up seeing my wife on the weekends. Unfortunately, not all employment is always co-located with the family...sigh. I'd love to boycott and say I'll never fly again, but it's a 21-hour drive.

Business travellers - yet again - are the victims of TSA here...and statistically, we have to be just about the least likely to cause problems. No freedom, no choice. I had to go through the full body scanner, and then got singled out for the pat down also on my last flight. The tech definitely 'touched my junk'.

We have totally and wholly lost all perspective as a nation here, allowing our citizens to be treated in such a manner.

If we, as a collective group, refuse the scanners on a busy day, say the most traveled day in America (the day before Thanksgiving) and insist on a pat down, the TSA would come to a grinding halt and the issue would be addressed with the seriousness that it deserves. The TSA has been summarily dismissing everyone's concerns. As a physician, I am extremely concerned about this level of exposure. What about their employees? In radiology the employees have to wear a tag that measures their collective level of radiation. Why aren't TSA employees doing this? Answer- because the TSA doesn't want anyone to know how bad this is for EVERYONE! I am not a conspiracy theorist but I work in the medical field. I have never had concerns about flying and fly quite frequently 4-6 times a year with my son. As a result of the scanners, we will now be driving whenever possible as I will NOT expose him to that level of repeated radiation. So long frequent flyer miles!

GOOD riddance to all you manby pambies who say you won't fly any more. I'd just as soon not have your chicken fried butts on the plane with me as you'd do absolutly no good if a terrorist did get throught and needed to be taken down by passingers.

Cry and whine all you want it is not a constitutional right to fly just like it's not a constitutional right to drive a car, we all have to pass tests, some are just different.

99% of the complainers here would be crying "Obama/Government didn't do enough to protect me/loved one" if a bomb/terrorist got through on a plane uncaught. TSA is damned if they do and REALLY damned if they don't on this one.

Bush already took away most of our rights to privacy you just don't see how every day like you do a scanner or someone coming close to your precious little "junk" at an airport.

Cry me a river, I'm sick of you all!

Bet the nearly 3000 victims of 911 would jump at the chance to go through a scanner or body pat down!

Boy you sure do like to lash out at people.

Why don't you get the facts first.

1. These do not detect explosive they only outline foreign material. "IF" said material is within the body (cavity or surgically placed) it will not get detected at ALL. How's that for simple.

2. Radiation has cumulative effects, so those that fly more often have a higher probability to experience problems. The radiation has a small chance of causing problems, about the same chance as your flight getting taken over by terrorists. So why subject us to the rads?

3. It's about money. The companies that make these scanners make millions of dollars and the politicians are seeing a piece of that pie.

4. There are other countries that have demonstrated that it is more intelligent to go with highly trained people with dogs. And it is cheaper.

Well said "John 1481207".

A nice Federal employee will be along shortly to show you to the showers. You'll recognize him by the shiny lightening bolts on his lapels...

John, you don't sound like a freedom loving American to me bud.

Give me liberty or give me death; NOT give me tyranny to protect my a$$. What a cop-out.

Orsonroy; I hope you were being facetious.

Dan; you go brother.

Lets fight our oppressive federal government that is trying to take away all freedom and liberty.

I agree with opponent - we need to boycott air travel. if we all got to gether, even for one day), and boycotted air travel the government and the tsa would take more notice and thing twice about shoving this down our throats.

John it's been my experience that the tough talkers such as yourself are the last to step-in to help in a dire situation and those that maintain a milder stance are the first to act.

Hey JBrite TBagger you really can lay the blame Bush and his cronies like you who started this all ... the white house would be attacked and Obama burned at the steak if he ignored the warning signs Bush's team had been given.

John, JBrite was referring to Osama bin Laden, not Barack Obama......

Hmm, I wish you were right but don't think so...think JBrite was being sarcastic. How bout it JBrite, were you referring to Bin Laden?

o

Osama bin Laden and 911

Spanky 752 #21,

If it's a business meeting, why not tele-conference ?

If it's a business meeting, why not tele-conference ?

How successful are you at dictating terms like this to clients? Mine prefers me to be onsite 40+ hours a week. It's this or go back to being unemployed. No thanks. Some of us REALLY don't have a choice in the matter.

Groping my body or my child's may mean nothing to the screener, but it means a hell of a lot to me.

No one asked for this crap. If you like it fine, but hell, you just complained about losing water, and that you cry over.. what a joke idiot.

Tokmo,

Please get on a plane and fly back to the Philippines, or anywhere but here. We believe in freedom in America and people with your attitude are the reason we are loosing our freedoms. If you think that it is ok to sexually assault people or expose them to health risk, go live somewhere else. We don't want and don't need you in America. Try North Korea for a start.

Why should we give these people a break? They knew perfectly well what the job was when they took it. If they had any self respect at all, they would find another occupation.

Except, then they wouldn't be able to tell strangers what to do all day. That is the part of the job they enjoy way too much. It's even worth the ass smell. The groping is just bonus.

I have no problem with them searching all luggage/carry ons and banning excess liquids from being carried aboard.

They have the means to use dogs, which are way more effective at finding drugs and explosives. I flew through Mexico City(layover) 2 months ago, and they lined up ALL luggage from incoming flights outside, and had dogs walk over it all and check for contraband(through a glass window, where all of us could watch). It's pathetic that Mexico has a better(less invasive), and more detailed inspection process than we do in the US.

I don't care if they pat me down, but I'm not going to subject my family(or myself) to any unnecessary excess radiation. They'd better make sure only females pat down females as well.

I fly international at least 3-4 times a year. I have no option take a train or drive a car.

I think the government is trying to monitor people traveling(leaving the US) with large amounts of $$

The more people "opt out", the longer the que. This is doing nothing for your rights...just making the lines longer and passengers more angry. The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. If you don't like it, then DON'T FLY!!

Lots of criticism, but no real solutions. The two options may not suit your ideal processes, yet no one has a better solution. Air travel is convenient. Trains, buses and cars are real alternatives if you are not comfortable with flying and the requisite inconvenience of being scanned or patted down. Life is all about choices. Make your choice and quit complaining. Be happy that you have a choice.