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Josh Wickham / Univ. of Florida / IFAS file
Researchers found that a high-mercury diet had an effect on the mating behavior of white ibises confined in a net-covered aviary at the University of Florida. They said the degree of homosexual pairing increased along with the birds' mercury exposure.
A years-long study at the University of Florida suggests that mercury pollution can alter the hormones of white ibises to make males more likely to mate with other males.
"We knew that mercury can disrupt hormones -- what is most disturbing about this study is the low levels of mercury at which we saw effects on hormones and mating behavior," Peter Frederick, a wildlife ecology and conservation professor who led the study, said in a news release this week. "This suggests that wildlife may be commonly affected."
The study was published online on Wednesday in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
Frederick and his co-author, Nilmini Jayasena, were hasty to warn against drawing any inferences about the roots of human homosexuality. They didn't set up the experiment to find out what makes birds gay -- rather, they were trying to figure out why ibises in the Everglades went through a stretch of poor breeding in the early 1990s, followed by a baby boom in the late 1990s.
Scientists knew that improvements in the birds' watery habitat was one factor behind the increased breeding, but they suspected that mercury concentrations played a role as well. During the downswing in breeding, low-level mercury contamination made its way increasingly into the Everglades via municipal and medical waste incineration -- but that waste became more regulated at about the same time as the start of the baby boom.
To find out if there was a connection between mercury contamination and a low birth rate, the university set up a 13,000-square foot net-covered aviary in 2005. They brought in 160 ibises, and divided the birds into four groups with equal numbers of males and females. Each group was fed a different diet -- low, medium or high mercury, or no mercury at all. The highest level of mercury was no higher than what the birds would have consumed if they had been in the wild during the early 1990s.
In 2006, about 55 percent of the high-mercury-diet males were nesting with other males. Frederick said the degree of male-male pairing was proportional to the degree of mercury in the diet. That played a role in breeding differences, as well: In comparison with the control group, high-mercury males were less likely to be approached by females during courtship. All of the mercury-consuming males were less prone to perform the ritual head bows and bobs that are part of the ibises' mating ritual.
Frederick and Jayasena, who was Frederick's doctoral student and is now based at the University of Peradeniya in Sri Lanka, reported that the high-mercury-diet females produced 35 percent fewer fledglings than the females in the control group.
The study lasted for three breeding seasons. After the experiment, the birds were put on a cleansing, mercury-free diet for several months and then released back into the wild.
Does all this mean homosexuality is linked to mercury pollution? For the ibises, maybe. For humans, almost certainly not. Frederick pointed out that there have been a number of long-term studies on the effects of mercury on humans, and none of those studies has noted a change in sexual behavior. Speaking more generally, the researchers noted that sexual preference is a much more complex phenomenon for humans than it is for birds.
In a report on Nature's website, a German expert on animal physiology cautioned that the results might not even be applicable to other bird species. Heinz Köhler of the University of Tübingen told Nature that this might be something that's just between ibises. "Their behavior may be less fragile and more robust to methylmercury," he said.
More perspectives on the research:
- Nature: Mercury causes homosexuality in male ibises
- BBC: Mercury 'turns' wetland birds homosexual
- New Scientist: Mercury poisoning makes male birds homosexual
- Miami Herald: Mercury makes ibises gay, study says
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Leave a Comment:
In short, poisons can cause abnormal sexual behaviors in some bird species.
It's time to read a few more science articles Hal.
For humans - it has to do with a hormonal chemical process that takes place during gestation.
Normal is relative. Consider aboriginal tribes, who enjoyed what they considered to be a normal peaceful life with their long established traditions until they were robbed, murdered and raped by well intentioned capitalist Christians.
Pull your head out and take a breath of fresh air.
Relax jrschw, no one is stopping you from your love of sodomy.
Normal> Penis in vagina.
Abnormal> Penis in rectum.
Live with it.
Interesting, Hal9000-0, but not terribly logical...into a rectum isn't 'normal', but into a vagina is?!? $tuff comes out of one, and while the female part is utilized during part of the reproductive process, it doubles as the female's version of a penis--they urinate from it. Think about that for a while...
I knew you were a homophobe, Hal. Now I have proof.
"Intolerance is evidence of impotence." -----Aleister Crowley
"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." -----Thomas Jefferson
Um, check your biology. Women don't urinate from the vagina.
Haha carla you beat me to it.
please. another flawed experiment to fool libtards into believing gay is not a choice.
do you really think we conservatives are going to fall for this ploy? this is at best another attempt to get us to compromise on our family values. they want to bait us into agreeing to destroy the wonderful corporations that provide us with jobs just because they put a little mercury in our water, in exchange for fixing the gay.
not going to work. we are smarter than that. the gay is a choice and global warming is a hoax. its in the bible!
Global Warming is in the Bible? Huh. Verse and chapter please... This may be the best post ever! For a good laugh...
Marcusarilius,
Why yes, of course its in the bible. Anything u want is in the bible, all u have to do is give it the spin it needs to be"in the bible".
Zaruski, that is hilarious. You almost had me. Well done.
@hal - your logic is not correct.
penis > vagina - possibility of reproduction, sexual experience
penis > rectum - no reproduction, sexual experience
That has nothing to do with normal or abnormal, only sexual experience. In the one case you can reproduce and in the other you cannot.
Freddie Mercury? Connection? Wow!
etothex - Your logic is incorrect.
The purpose of sex IS reproduction, not for pleasure. The pleasure aspect of sex is so that life would be more apt to procreate.
Reproduction is normal, sex solely for pleasure is not normal. Just something man has conjured up with our twisted view of life.
Jason - Man did not invent sex for pleasure. There are monkeys that do the same thing, and they [males] do it with the same sex also. The moment pleasure is attached to an experience any creature on this planet will seek it out so they can experience the rush again. It's simple high school freshman biology.
Jason you're full of it, and probably a pretty sad person if you can't find pleasure in sex. The only thing man has "conjured up" is the enormous guilt associated with enjoying sex.
There are even animals who have sex for non procreation.
@jason - No, your wrong. You do get pleasure from sex, therefore sex for pleasure is normal.
If you are talking about fundamentals, and not religion, then you forgot to mention, that primates, and other mammals, use sex to show dominance as well. They are not trying to procreate while they are humping another male. Primates have also shown signs that are similar to prostitution, females giving males sex for food etc. These try to push survivability. They have nothing to do with normality, only survival.
You're missing my point John. Biological tendencies or not, the fact that the human race is the most intelligent life on this planet allows us to make choices that our counterparts cannot. We should know better than those who eat and throw their own poo.. Correct?
jrschw -so Kubla Kahn, Mao Tse Tung, and Genghis Kahn were Christians? Tank you for dat information. Who has his head where thesundon'tshine? I'm glad my taxes are going to good use.
@jason - elaborate as to what you mean by knowing better. Do you have a standard by which humans should practice sex? Please elaborate as to how you derived this conclusion.
-grandma throws kid off parking platform, not very intelligent. Jeffrey Dahmer ate people not very intelligent, Kim Jong Il not very intelligent, etc, etc. Please elaborate how you are coming to your conclusions. And perhaps your definition of intelligence.
Sex should only be performed through a plastic tarp with a hole cut in it, and only when attempting to have a child.
If pregnancy does not occur after 6 months you are allowed to make quiet grunting noises, just loud enough to be heard through the tarp.
After one year you are allowed to lift the tarp and look at your partners ankles during the act. That should guarantee impregnation.
Shags -
Oh i enjoy sex as much as the next person and i don't feel guilty for it. Humans should feel pleasure when having intercourse, that's normal. However, i recognize that sex solely for procreation and sex for the sole act of pleasure is two different things. Man should know better than our animal counterparts.
Eto - Again.. We should know better than those who eat their young, eat their mates, eat their poo, hump legs, and cannot solve algebra.
@jason - again you are not answering the question. Know better about what? why?
Your examples all occur in humans so we should know better than ourselves? I am not sure I follow.
Jason, you have sex for...gasp...pleasure!? You are not normal! I would venture to say you've conjured up a twisted life for yourself! Wait. Oh yeah, you said that.
ETO - False. You're equating evil acts with lack of intelligence. Many of the most evil people this world has ever known were highly intelligent.
Shags - Go back to watching Austin Powers and leave this conversation to the grown-ups.
Oh no! Even our birds are turning gay! This is a travesty!
Okay, that said, I'm curious to see what the anti-gay conservative camp will do with this report to try to smear the gay community even more. I really, truly hope they do try to use it, because every time they pull stunts like that, they come off as being as unevolved and uneducated as @!$%#-flinging chimps, and it helps the gay community far more than it hurts them.
Jason, I'm sorry. For you I will leave the satire and sarcasm out.
In five to ten years history will look at you and yours like we now look at the KKK. A bunch of ignorant, hateful, archaic bigots. So enjoy yourself while you can, you've only got a few years. Now is your time to shine!
Is that more mature?
I would just like to know how much the Study cost you and me? Birds, Horses and Cows are all gay,,,who cares. Let's put the $$$ to better use.
Shag - My point is having sex is pleasurable, yes.. when it's with another of the opposite sex of the same species.. But, that doesn't mean i should go around humping other men or legs or stuffed toys or clothes hampers just because, by your definition, sex is pleasurable andother creatures of the animal kingdom don't know any better.
Shag - So now you want to equate those that don't share your sentiments with the KKK? Ya, that's sooooo much more mature. Nice work.
How's the pointy hat fit, bigot?
Jason, no other species should know how to do algebra because humans invented it! It is a concept and language that applies only to the human framework of the world, no other. The memo you missed is that being able to do algebra doesn't make humans better or more intelligent. Maybe being able to locate food simply by complex hearing is intelligent. Or perhaps being able to see well in the dark due to the structure of the eyes is intelligent.
Oh, and intelligence is also a concept that humans invented. We can't use it outside of the human framework, although we try to. We can't even get clear about it within the human framework! ... Are those tests fair, equitable, accurate, what do they even measure? We're not sure.
So yeah, we're a species with a large brain proportionate to body size. We're also the only species on the planet that willfully destroys its own habitat, the very things it requires to survive. So much for the concept of intelligence. So much for our superiority to other species.
What people feel during what we call sex happens because of nerve endings and such. You are trying to apply your one religious belief system to sexuality--and everything else, it seems--but these are just your beliefs. Try to back up from the tree your nose is against and see the whole forest. Humanity as a whole, lots of belief systems, the human animal for what it is.
Not sure why all these folks are getting their feathers in a ruffle, gay or not, the study clearly stated it was for birds and not humans.
It has long been known that mercury poisoning causes brain damage, as does lead, chromium, and a variety of other chemicals.
What they forgot to mention is that studies like this also create brain damage.
Is the study a triple blind study? Where are the control groups? How many times have the results been consistant and how many times was it tested? Had all mitigating factors been addressed? How many times were the habitat control groups switched off?
The study is a SHAM. A single study with one group of birds under a controlled environment of the researcher's devise and limitation. Nothing more.
This is not sceintific evidence of anything beyond a lack of human understanding.
I can just as easily provide the results of a study every time I use the bathroom. When I stand the water is always yellow afterward, when I sit it is occasionally brown. Thereby; people who sit to relieve themselves have a much higher chance of the water being brown. Correct or Not? Or just another invalid study.
If you tell me what a triple blind study is maybe I'll try to read your post again and see if it makes any sense.
A triple blind study is where the testers, the subjects, and those who evaluate the results have no idea what the study is about or what the tests are for. Obviously we can conclude the birds had no clue, or did they arrive at one conclusion themselves?
Did the researchers inform the testers what the study was about?
Did the researchers tell the statisticians what the test was about?
Are the reasearchers the also the testers and statisticians?
Every particle is a factor.
-- Credential --
MA in Medical Laboratory Technologies, 6 years R&D in NeuroBiological Chemistry, 4 Years Statisitical Analysis, Published twice.
Pardon;
Are the reasearchers also the testers and statisticians?
Fine. It looks like you are right and I will admit I'm wrong. I will now feign grumpiness. :(
Was not looking for any admission whatsoever. There is nothing to suggest you were or are wrong. Simply put.. Results of testing and research will only pass the muster if the test does.... repeatedly
they did the study because they found woodsy owl giving a hoot.
The end of birth.
@jason - I would rate intelligence with the ability to not commit a horrific act and go to jail. To do so is not intelligent. So yes they maybe very SMART but not intelligent.
So, as it turns out, being gay isn't a choice, just as we've always said. We just have mercury poisoning!
In that case, where's our settlement from all the manufacturing companies who turned us into something so deeply loathed by society that we're denied equal rights, equal benefits, etc? I want reparations, and I want 'em now! ;-)
This is hilarious. A study to determine the effects of mercury says nothing about birth defects, etc. but it turns birds gay? Give me a effing break! The loons on the left will stop at nothing to promote their insanity!
Marcusarilius:
Yes,global warming is in the Bible.God told Noah that next time he would destroy the Earth by fire.
I couldn't stop laughing when I read the title of this article.
No kidding!!
Couldn't wait to go tell my gay neighbor - as soon as I finished my Tuna Helper. . . uh oh
Seriously, though, where are the statistics on the other test groups?
Alternate title: "How to make conservatives care about the environment"
One word: AWESOME
Damn, that was a good one Joe.
I almost fell out of my chair smiling at this article..Jesus, gay birds.
Cowboy -
Alternate title: "How to burst the Liberal bubble that Homosexuality is a born trait".
Jason,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but most of us don't care if it's "born" or not.
I was wondering why your title didn't share the humor of the other, then I remembered, bigots aren't funny.
Shag -
I don't know if i'd use the term "most" because i think you'd be grossly dissapointed.
The term "bigotry" can be applied to many people, including yourself. My opinions and views are obviously not tolerable to you, which by definition, is bigotry. However, bigotry is usually reserved for those who are intolerant of another religion or race.. Only recently has it been used for those with questionable sexual practices.
I'm sure the KKK thought everyone was being intolerant of their views too... Those damn bigoted civil rights protesters!
And you don't get it. I and most liberals don't care why gays are gay! We see nothing wrong with them, so don't we worry about why.
Now the truth comes out, Uncle Shags is sympathizing with his gay bird buddies. You breaking thermometers to make birds gay right?
I heard in Iran they don't have gay birds...just ask Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Except for one gay bird, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
first the frogs went gay
then the bee's started flaming.
then they found it in Australian kangaroo's and rabbit's.
Now they found it in birds.
Next they will be finding it in humans .
Except Iranians, Baptist and evangelicals and al-qaeda and the taliban.
and Republicans
this just in: the gay has been found on evangelicals too!
and Republicans
Oh you people are so friggin' hilarious..
This just in - Animals with small brains will hump anything!! Heck, my neighbor's dog likes to wear out the laundry basket. Just cause birds, frogs, or kangaroos occasionally hump another of the same sex doesn't mean humans should. We have the larger brains and therefore should know better.
@Jason - And to what do you base your conclusion on Jason? "We have the larger brains and therefore should know better." Know better than to do what? why? Please elaborate.
ETO -
I was referring to Tyler's comment.
@jason - I still have not got an answer from you about my question that is why i asked.
@etothex
Would you not also agree that observable intelligence is speculatively rated? I would tend to think that Intelligence is the practical application of wisdom combined with interperative solvabilty and innate abilty to improvise.
Problem solving does not always equate to intellectual capacity IMHO.
@Jason Eto was referring to a post higher up. The conversation switched to this thread at the last moment.
#1.40
Animals with small brains will hump anything!!
No kidding jason, look at Barbara Bush :)
Oh well... can't wait for either answer.
Catch you on the flip side.
@hatchet - Well most things are speculative. And an observable intelligence is speculative. Intelligence is a wide concept and to define it I think is not possible except under certain restrictions. Problem solving though would be directly related to intelligence but would not be the most important factor. It would not equate to intellectual capacity in itself but would be a part of it.
I would also compare "interperative solvabilty" and "innate abilty to improvise" to problem solving.
Last I heard there was no such thing as a "gay" animal, just some primates in Africa mimicking some observed human behavior...as reported by Jane Goodall
@ ethotex .. agreed in part.
That position does not take into account chance, interdependent relativity, or chaos theorem.
Gay birds?
The term gay has been pushed by the homosexuals for "recocnitionion" of the abnormal behavior they engage in.
Gay means happy, just like marriage means a union between and man and woman.
if anything this article shows just how normally this can occur in nature.
words and their meaning change with the times
yes, normal under abnormal circumstances. much like cancer under radiation.
Your bigotry aside, this actually occurs all the time under very normal circumstances in all forms of life. This has been proven in several studies.
Yes, so does alot of other things that happen all the time in nature....the female eating one or more of her offspring or her mate, incest, birds and mammals (we'll just leave it at that for now) practicing sex with immature counterparts (humans call it pedophelia), etc.
So CowboyJoe33, does that mean since these things happen in nature, that simply makes them O.K. for humans?
So, when my dog humped the neighbor's leg, then went in his back yard and hammered his bitch, that must make him bi... right?
Thank you Hal, This kind of article is so stupid. Animals, Foul, Fish are the one creation of God that obeys what God has placed in them without question they can never be homosexual. These people have no clue what they are talking about.
Some people don't use their brain for anything good, just plain stupidity. Hey Mom, Dad you paid all that money for me to be stupid.
Debora,
Deficient educations are evident when one espouses drivel. And in you own words, you have revealed:
Good thing I put myself through school isn't it. I do believe I'm a bit smarter than some folks. Like these doing these studies.
Clearly intelligence to Deborah means ignoring facts that don't fit one's theology.
Clearly James, some people need to be ignored.
Debora - Church college doesn't count. If you follow what you say then god made gay people to be gay since they're just obeying what god put in them (your words). We do studies because we want to know 'why'. It's human nature, which according to you, is gods plan. So when you mock people doing the study, you're mocking god which must be a scary moment for you.
Wadey, sorry but it's the males that may eat their offspring, not the mothers. Some females do kill the male, usually cause they're not needed or they are a threat to the young. And animals don't practice incest. That's a funny one. Incest is a human concept. Sex with immature counterparts? You have a reference for that one? I don't think so. Sorry, whole-y argument.
It still amazes me that satan can fill people's heads with lies and they say it is God's doings. One day satan will pay for his lies and people who have believed his lies will suffer because of his lies as well. God never made anyone to be homosexual.
Wait, what?! I'm going to get in trouble for falling for satans lies?! Not hating gays is going to send me to hell?! Damn you SATAN!!!!
Wow, Debora. Looks to me like you're full of evil. Judging others, telling them what's ok or not--I thought you are supposed to be loving people and leaving that stuff to god?
These people have no clue what they are talking about. Some people don't use their brain for anything good, just plain stupidityTell us, where does hatefulness come from?
"These people have no clue what they are talking about. Some people don't use their brain for anything good, just plain stupidity."
Just wanted to be clear, that's a quote from you, Debora. My question is, where does hatefulness like that come from?
I'm not judging anyone and I don't believe anyone should hate homosexuals., I don't hate them, I hate the lie that satan tells them. God is the only judge for all mankind. I have many coworkers who are homosexual and I get along with them just fine.
As a follower of Jesus it is my responsibility along with all born again Christians to tell people what God's word says. If I don't I will answer to God for not loving people enough to tell them the truth.
Frankly I don't know how you folks think I am judging anyone from what I've written. I have not said one ugly thing about homosexuals, nor did I say that they should be hated.
God will show the truth to those who seek it, and if people don't seek the truth God cannot reveal it to them.
I have come to learn that the NON Christians on the Vine are very judgemental and as much as I have enjoyed some of the article on the vine I have not enjoyed the bigotry toward God fearing people.
I pray you all have a good life.
Is this what university tuition went to?
No.
They probably got a Federal Grant to fund this sophistry
Its kind of inportant if pollution is causing a larger population of any species to exhibit homosexual behavior. There are some benifical aspects of small homosexual populations but if pollution can exaserbate them to much then that might lead to unacceptable drops in ibise population as a whole.
Um, what is beneficial to having a homosexual bird population?
Stopping overpopulation, reducing use on resources, etc.
Jason is right, acoe. Those birds are going to hell. Bird-hell. Read about it.
If there were any reality behind this study there would not be a straight person left in this world for all of the pollution we have ingested....
Well that explains a lot about California .
The liberals are going to reverse thier stance on pollution now and support all kinds of pollution.
Pollution makes birds gay???
I would have figured it would PIZZ them off!
How much money did this "study" cost us taxpayers?
1. Read 2. This is actually incredibly important information that could have an enormous effect on an entire ecosystem.
CowboyJoe...more than the effects us humans have upon the entire global ecosystem? I would highly doubt it. All our human actions have caused various populations of animals to die off or come close to extinction. There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, it's been a normal part of all animal populations (including human) since existence, it isn't a choice, it's a determined by genetics and environmental factors.
Sorry wsc, but I'm going to have to ask for believable statistics on that claim, because until this study I havn't heard of any "gay" animals except for apes in Africe which was reported by Dr. Jane Goodall...who said they didn't exhibit these tendencies until exposure to lots of human contact.
They're still going to hell.
"Judge Not! Lest ye be Judged."
OMG!!! We must stop this!!!! We cannot have all these gay birds crowding up hell!!!! WhereTF would all the hypocritical christians spend eternity????
1st Kanye West is a gay fish...now this!
San Diego - How is disagreeing with the premise that homosexuality is quite normal, equate to being hypocritical? Not that i disagree with you that there are hypocritical Christians, however being a hypocrite is not reserved for those of religious beliefs..
Jason, it's hypocritical because you believe living your life based on a book written by some random guys thousands of years ago IS normal.
Maybe now the right can get behind environmental protection since they can use it to fight homosexuality.
Ah yes, the Right is against protecting the environment.
Generalizations are tools of the ignorant.
Great for me - gay birds - less to @!$%# on my truck
There is an excellent book that documents (with photos) and examines homosexual behavior in many animals and birds titled Biological Exuberance by Bruce Bagemihl. The scientific research is painstaking and the result is quite enlightening. If anything, it substantiates that this behavior is quite 'normal' and for many species common from gulls to giraffes. sexuality isn't an either/or situation but a range of hormones and behaviors.
It isn't a normal behavior in animals if there is an animal of the opposite sex around. A cow in heat will jump another cow, but only if there isn't a bull to be seen. In people, it is also an abnormal behavior.
What's normal about it when it leads to an evolutionary dead end? They can't even reproduce themselves. It is against the laws of nature. However, the World in which we live is toxic, and things happen which can cause abnormalities. These people who say they "can't help it", are to be pitied. I object to society telling us that we must accept this lifestyle as "normal" and these phony marriages as "normal", because they aren't. The only reason children are still playing doctor in high school is because every time you turn the TV on or watch a sit-com, they are being told that this is normal and to go ahead and try it. The behavior can become addictive. Any parent who goes along with this needs their head examined. The kids are supposed to be taught, normal from abnormal, and right from wrong at home.
brilliant post. except for the part where you got everything wrong.
so gays hit an evolutionary dead end. then what are we to do to men and women who are sterile? should we prevent them from getting married or nullify their marriage if they have one? what about people of age? should we tell them too bad, you cant be married anymore? should we start mandating that people who get married have kids?
if we are going to prevent gays from marrying strictly because they cannot reproduce them you must believe we must mandate that all heterosexuals have kids.
and by the way...when did your types begin to believe in evolution? im impressed!
Judy - so I'm not normal then? I beg to differ. I am who I am and I was made that way, I didn't have a choice on my sexuality as much as a heterosexual has a choice on their own sexuality as well. I am proud of who I am and I am even prouder of the boyfriend I have in my life because without him, I would have never made it through all the tough issues with my health/kidney transplant etc. over the past 4 years. Who died and left you to be judge and jury? How is it not normal? I didn't make the choice, and better yet, in the light of your arguement, I was created by heterosexual people - a man and a woman, what would you do if one of your own flesh and blood children (if you have any or will in the future) came home and said "Ma, I'm gay" - disown them? That is very sad and low of you. Homosexuality has been around for many, many centuries - look at ancient civilizations, ancient Rome, it was all there and accepted. I cannot believe I have still have to deal with people placing me as a second rate citizen in this day and age, so sad, it really breaks my heart.
One does not need to have "bible mentality" to see the flaw in homosexual pairing. You're making the assumption that if someone ascribes to evolution, they can't be put-off by homosexual behavior? Animals also kill one another for preservation, often when it has nothing to do with obtaining a meal. Is this license, then for humans to do the same, because it's in observed in "nature"?
"I didn't have a choice, I didn't have a choice, I didn't have a choice..." Say it 25 times and it makes it true, Right!?
"I know even though I have no evidence or personal experience, I know even though I have no evidence or personal experience..." Say it 25 times and it makes it true, Right!?
Judy makes sense. Listen to her and think you gays.
Just idea of one man squeezing another man's butt is disgusting. Just as idea of 50 year old prick having sex with 10 year old boy.
Well, if one prefers to have a man why not a boy? And why wait till his ten?
If marriage of two men has the same value as marriage of a man and a woman, so why not to marry ten women at once. Or perhaps ten boys? I'm sure there are some people with these desires.
But you see, these questions are quite legitimate if we turn the basic and important rules in society upside down. Yes there are rules which should be followed.
Look at the history. Every great society was build from families e.i. father, mother and children (and plenty of them) . Look at Rome for example. Romans, at the beginning valued family greatly. That's when they were able build The empire.
Its collapse was accompanied by widely spread promiscuity and homosexuality - e.i. no family values.
The same goes for the USA today. People with great respect for 'old fashioned' family build the country which became the greatest country. And it achieved it's peak way while before all that 'proud gay movement' started. Yes when all gays were still in closets.
I remember when Iraq 2nd war started, only about several months after that the first lawsuit to legalize gay marriage hit the news. I've asked my self what is wrong with this country. The country was at war and this is one of front page news? That's when I kind of knew the US will never win this war. And probably no other either.
Any way there are still some people who have they senses. Who don't buy this gay propaganda.
I'm convinced that all you gays (I don't care how much gay you were 'born'), you can thank to your parents or whoever raised you, for spending great and valuable time teaching you what's good for you.
And now, soon, when you can openly and proudly join the army you'll kick some butts. Oh you prefer to squeez. Just don't do it to an enemy.
Wait, female cows "jump" other female cows when they're in heat? Neat, they must scissor.
Orech - Have a cup of coffee then come back and try again. Maybe read some history and learn the word hypocrite while you're at it.
ORECH. The USA went down the tubes not by having Homosexuals coming out of the closet, and Your Repubs are still in there; but because a political party has changed the Constitution from We the People , to We the corporation and gave them the authority to vote. If our daughter, 31, told us she was gay, we would hug her, sit down with her and listen to her and support whatever decisions she makes because she is responsible for them. And you need to do a little history research. Rome became great because they spred their seed/ raped all those they conquered, lack of marriage did not bring them down. They also had a problem back then with lead poisoning. We have genetically modified seed and widely distributed soy, which all health food followers KNOW mimics estrogen. Do you guys know that everything you eat now days has SOY in it? Read the labels.
Oh this is great! Nature breaking the law of Nature!! Well gosh that makes perfect sense...Perfect! now we can blame the alarming loss of species on homosexuality!!! It is not the loss of habitat, climate change and pollution...but in fact the animal kingdom going against the word of god!!!! I knew we should have been upping the literacy rates of the Ibises...now look what's happened...I am not even going to get into the amoral sex education that we have been giving these adolescent Ibises...If only wwe had taught them abstinence!
john doe! I would gladly show you how much of hypocrite I am. Just come to me and try to squeeze my butt.
chicory! I do agree with you. But my point is that homosexuality is one of symptoms. It is not one and only reason for bringing society down.
You see, the family is very important for the society. Just as rules are.
You start change the basic and important rules, you better expect the consequences. And they may show in 1 year or perhaps 100 years. But they surely show.
History is prove of that.
Just as I said. It is the symptom. And it shows there is some problem.
If I see the guy who can have women with no problem but he prefer the man instead, to me it shows he is different. But definitely not normal. He must have a problem.
But we live in 'weird' times, when crooked is straight and straight is crooked. It'll bring another dark ages upon us. History will repeat itself.
I totally agree with you on this. Up is down and down is up, and wrong is right and right is wrong. The bible speaks of this also. It isn't a made up thing - it is true! If we change the meaning of the word, "marriage" we are asking for BIG problems! What if it included marrying a little girl of 8 or 9 years of age? Never say never, once the definition gets changed. Be it now or 100 years from now, it could happen. Would the gay people on this list, legally want some dirty old man, coming after THEIR little girls or boys? Wouldn't this just be the worst thing? And to think they had a part in it by opening the doors and insisting the meaning of marriage be changed. I think hs people better rethink this. They already have rights, contracts, civil unions, inheritance laws. If there is something missing, direct your time and energy toward whatever it is, but leave marriage alone. Whatever two consenting adults want to do is THEIR business, regardless of what the rest of us personally believe. Tamper with marriage and an unwelcome floodgate will open in the future.
They should join the American Armed Forces...they will be safe then.
So what is causing homosexuality to skyrocket in human beings? It wasn't that long ago that homosexuality rates were less than 2%. Today about half of teenagers are gay. That's a dramatic change in a very short time period.
Actually, what you see is the result in changing times. Homosexuality rates were low because people were afraid to come out due to a widespread unacceptance and hate toward gays. Now, people are realizing that humans should be treated equally, regardless how they look/think (history repeats itself... who ever could have guessed that?).
About half, really? Please provide some documentation.
I have this info:
from http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/resources/FAQ.html
Half of teenagers gay? Cite your source please.
Where are you getting your statistics. Half the teenagers are homosexual?
You all are forgetting one thing. Love the sinner, hate the sin.
It's a subjective observation. A lot has changed since 1992 though.
I work in a school and have a teen girl...Her BFF had a boyfriend who EVERYONE just assumed was gay because of his mannerisms...the parents even let him spend the night like one of the girls (NOT WHILE MINE WAS THERE!) Well now he is out of the closet...but not before taking the virginity of the 14yo girl!
So it's not 50%...but it is a LOT more than in years past...I blame the chicken of the sea
So all the homos have too much mercury in their diet. Brain damaged, or another mental disorder. Just like we USED to be allowed to say. Counsel the homos becuase it's a DISORDER not the 'way you're born'. So much for the sodomy lobby's years of trying to disregard the FACTS.
I think it is a behavioral addiction. A type of sex addiction. The more you see it advertised, the more it becomes accepted in society, the more you will see of it, because people are ignorant and buy into the bs that it is an alternative lifestyle and "normal". It is not. It is perversion, whether it can be helped or whether it is a conscious choice. I'd like to know what % of people who claim they are hs went into it with both eyes open and not impaired with drugs or alcohol the first time? I think the older perverts prey on the young ones as a form of recruit since they cannot reproduce themselves. There is no gene for HS!! The human genome has been 100% mapped. Something causes it, either psychologically or physically by way of toxin, perhaps in utero. There was a small study done, and it was found that when baby boys are exposed to Pthalates in the womb it will feminize them, and delay puberty in baby girls. Does this make HS normal? Of course not.
Judy - it is not a behavioral addiction, I'm not addicted to loving a man any more than you may be addicted to a man in a heterosexual relationship, that arguement completely nullifies your point of view and belief. I didn't become homosexual because I was "endlessly bombarded" with homosexual ads, television, media, or a large amount of homosexual people when I grew up in the 80's/90's, I am this way because it is in my genetic make up, I didn't one day decide "I think I'm going to be homosexual", I just was. I can't believe you would even sit there and say something to the extent of that we all were exposed to it and were under the influence some type of recreational substance the first time - that is sheer ignorance and blatant bigotry if I've ever seen it. There is no gene either for heterosexuality, your arguements are so easily torn down and negated that you barely have anything to back yourself up with. If you're saying I was exposed to a toxin or something, perhaps in utero, then I think we would still expect a larger majority of humans to be homosexual than there really are. I really am getting sickened by reading your rubbish, I'm sorry for saying that because I truly am so open minded to a lot, but you take the cake in being so close minded, it's like you are from the 1950's with blinders on to the reality that homosexuality was just as widespread in time periods of human history where it may seem like it wasn't, just the views of people like someone mentioned before dubbed it "bad" until more and more people began to see that it was an everyday part of life for some people like myself. So it's ok to you that I've suffered through having acts of hate directed at me while I was in college and such just because of who I am? You are unbelievable.
I think I'm going to try drinking some mercury. Gay is the new Black.
if it's NORMAL, why is it called 'queer' behavior?? An anamoly, an abomination. Why didn't the animals show that 'NORMAL' behavior BEFORE they were given so much mercury NAKLA or TOM???
It has been observed in healthy animals as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
Read more and judge less.
Exactly right WMG-21.
Homosexual behavior has been observed in just about every single species of mammal.
Don, I hear you, it is strange! They call them "gay", and although many seem to be a bit ...prancy...in general it doesn't look to me like they are more happy than normal folks. And sometimes people call them "faggots", but they aren't burning like a piece of wood (maybe wishful thinking?). So weird.
Hey, your name is Donald? Do you wear a little blue sailors outfit and have a big beak? Oh Don, you're so naughty... winkwink
This article and study prove to be a real suck fest. Mercury has been found in nature since the beginning of time. Mercury does poison but did you see this link in Britain in the 1700 when hatters were poisoned? Just what do you do when these scientists throw sh-- against the wall to make PR points?
Where are those studies COWBOY?? They don't exist...if they did, the left would be trumpeting them all over the NET.
Ahem...
It has been observed in healthy animals as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
Read more and judge less.
The article states that by introducing poisons, namely mercury into the bird's environment, their sexual behavior changed, and all of you are projecting this to justify your view of what is legitimate sexual behavior in humans.
Animals/birds mate based on instinct. They dont think about their biological clock or having a family...they just respond to instinct. They dont think about it like humans do. The bird's instinctual behavior somehow changed because of mercury.
Now, as for some of the replies if you feels so insecure in your beliefs about your sexuality that you have to call me names because I'm saying it like it is, well then that is YOUR problem...not mine.
Sticks and stones my fellow viners, sticks and stones.
Homosexuality is an evolutionary dead end. A recessive trait that adds nothing to the procreation/expansion of a species.
Here's some information regarding evolution and homosexuality.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=homosexuality+and+evolution&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart
It's just a google link to a ton of scholarly articles (meaning peer-reviewed, academic articles) on the subject. Not that I expect Hal will read them, but in case anyone else was intellectually interested in the biomechanics that allowed homosexual evolution.
I've said once before and I will say it again: Read more, judge less.
Is everyone who doesn't believe homsexuals are NORMAL, a bigot??? Or are they just referring to what 'happens naturally' between a man and a woman is NOT the same as what happens when a man and a man 'pretend' one is the woman, or when 2 women use a prosthetic device to 'simulate' one is a man??
Your comment brought something to mind. That of the gay couples I have known, there is always a masculine/feminine dynamic at play. I cant really explain it but one is always the "man" and the other always the "woman." It's hard to explain.
Just an observation.
to say that there is always a "man" and "woman" in homosexual couples I would say is called confirmation bias. You see heterosexuals as "normal" and in order to understand homosexuality you view it from a heterosexual perspective.
Does a woman who plays hockey or football, loves the color blue, is aggressive, and physically strong yet heterosexual...a "man" in your perspectives because she exhibits what "society considers "masculine" attributes?
Homosexuals are who they are. In high school, despite being in Rexburg Mormonville homophobe central, I became friends with several homosexuals, both male and female, who were courageous enough to not hide it from the other students. These friends of mine all say the same thing. It is how they always were from a very young age, as far back as any of them can remember. I think it probably does have something to do with how their minds develop in early childhood, if not from the womb. It's not an aberration or abnormal. Like I said above, homosexual behavior has been observed in the wild in just about every single species of mammal.
I don't think any of us have a right to demean them by saying it's abnormal in some way, or some kind of choice they made at some point in their life. It is who they are, and they can't control their natural attractions anymore than you or I can control who we are naturally attracted to.
Look, they are just as human as anyone else. I've never known any of them to take a casual homosexual joke the wrong way, as long as it's not in bad taste. However, you folks must remember that their feelings aren't of any less importance than your own feelings. Despite what your antiquated relic of a holy book says, it is not a sin, and it is not your right to judge them anyways according to that same book, so get over your medieval dark age homophobic mentality folks. This is the 21st century, not the 14th century.
It's abnormal and an abomination, regardless of what you might think.
He said the mercury study in humans did not show any changes in sexual attraction but it could be that the researchers never thought to check that during their study. The birds however are moving another step toward extinction.
From the Nat Geo Article, proves homos are too close to their mothers while growing up. They mimick female beahviors.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html
"Another suggestion is that homosexuality is a developmental phase people go through. He said, "This is similar to the argument of play in young animals to get their brain and muscles to work effectively and together. Off the back of this, there's the possibility you can get individuals locked into this phase for the rest of their lives as a result of the social environment they grow up in."
There are many variables at play IMO.
Biological, psychological and social. That is why there is no way to pinpoint exactly why one person is gay while another isn't.
Then you have the stranger variations like bisexuals. Then those who where hetero then turned homo later in life. Those who where homo then turned hetero later in life.
Too many variables.
Don, it's no secret that gay males share many tendancies with females. It has nothing to do with environmental conditioning though. The brain simply develops that way, probably before birth, and causes the person to behave like a female. Hormones still bring out some of the male behaviors though. Presumably the inverse would be true for gay females but it doesn't seem as clear cut.
Add ironically you just compared Humans to birds....
Last time I checked, we're quite diferent