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Recent scientific findings plus some educated guesses have led some experts to estimate there may be 10,000 extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way. Come up with your own estimate using our Drake Equation Calculator.
Would the detection of extraterrestrial life cause the kind of paranoia or alien worship we see in science-fiction shows ranging from "The Day the Earth Stood Still" to "V"? In a fresh round of studies, scientists and theologians suggest it really wouldn't have much impact on what we do or what we believe.
The Brookings Report warned in 1961 that the discovery of life beyond Earth could lead to social upheaval. But Albert Harrison, a psychologist at the University of California at Davis, says "times have changed dramatically" since then.
Even the discovery of intelligent aliens "may be far less startling for generations that have been brought up with word processors, electronic calculators, avatars and cell phones as compared with earlier generations used to typewriters, slide rules, pay phones and rag dolls," Harrison writes in one of the papers published Monday in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A.
E.T. has become so much a part of our culture that the aliens don't seem all that alien anymore. And if extraterrestrial life does exist, it's far more likely to be discovered in the form of microbes on Mars, or signals from a star system that's tens or thousands of light-years away.
Harrison says there are plenty of historical precedents showing that society can get used to the idea of life existing beyond Earth:
"Society has been unfazed by batmen on the moon, the canals of Mars, discoveries of quasars and pulsars, claims that a fossil arrived from Mars, and bogus announcements of SETI detections. Any discovery of ETI [extraterrestrial intelligence] is likely to produce a mix of emotions including fear, pandemonium, equanimity and delight, but in North America and Europe, neither the retrieval of an exobiological specimen nor detection of a dial tone at a distance are likely to lead to widespread psychological disintegration and social collapse. Perhaps we should not worry too much about people who protect their belief systems by denying scientific findings (or recasting them as theory), and it seems unlikely that a 'dial tone at a distance' will shock people who are embroiled in civil war, caught up in genocide or wracked by AIDS and starvation. People conditioned by years of participation in UFO clubs, science fiction and an endless parade of purported documentaries may find the discovery anticlimactic."
That theme carries through in other reports published in the special issue of the British journal. The 17 research papers, which add up to more than 200 pages in all, are based on a series of discussions that took place almost a year ago. The Royal Society brought together some of the world's top authorities on the search for extraterrestrial life to reflect on what might happen if E.T. was ever found — and went on to conduct a follow-up discussion in October.
Here are a few more thought-provoking nuggets from the journal:
- More than 80 percent of religious believers say contact with intelligent aliens would not shake their personal faith, according to a survey developed by Ted Peters, a theologian at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in Berkeley, Calif. About a third of the believers who were surveyed said that E.T. contact might create some sort of religious crisis. In contrast, more than two-thirds of non-believers thought there'd be a religious crisis. Some Christian theologians, such as Wolfhart Pannenberg, say Jesus came to save E.T. as well as humans — while others (including Paul Tillich and Karl Rahner) have suggested that there could be multiple incarnations of alien saviors, Peters says.
- Arizona State University's Paul Davies lays out his concept of "weird life," which suggests that life could operate using chemical machinery different from the usual type, even here on Earth. The concept is reflected in a recent round of controversial experiments focusing on bacteria that are thought to consume arsenic instead of the usual phosphorus.
- Even if evidence of life was found on Mars, it might not be considered truly "alien" life, NASA astrobiologist Chris McKay says. "An organism would be alien if, and only if, it did not link to our tree of life," he writes. That determination could have big consequences. If biomarkers indicate that such an alien form of life exists on Mars, then McKay says humans should feel morally bound to leave that life alone. "We must be able to undo ('ctrl-Z') our contamination of Mars if we discover a second genesis of life," he says.
- The head of the U.N. Office for Outer Space Affairs, Mazlan Othman, presents her view that the United Nations should take a leading role in coordinating the global response to evidence of extraterrestrial life. Othman got in hot water when news reports made it sound as if she was angling to become an "ambassador to the aliens." In the journal, however, Othman presents a sensible case: She draws an analogy to the role played by the United Nations in considering what should be done in the event Earth is threatened by an incoming asteroid.
- Cambridge University paleontology Simon Conway Morris says we shouldn't worry so much about what to do if we come across intelligent aliens, because they probably don't exist. He argues his point on the basis of evolutionary convergence. If long-term life ever arose beyond Earth, it would eventually result in the rise of a world-subduing intelligent species like our own. And if even just one civilization out of 10,000 found a way to travel beyond its own solar system, "this planet would still have been colonized by people who kept trilobites as pets," Morris writes. That's not the case, leading Morris to a conclusion that he says should still "make our blood run cold." Here's his bottom line: "We never had any visitors, nor is it worth setting up a reception center in the hope that they might turn up. They are not there, and we are alone. So which do you prefer: neighbors with the culture of the Aztecs or a howling silence?"
Are we alone in the universe? What are the implications of E.T.'s existence, or non-existence? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.
Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page or following @b0yle on Twitter. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
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In my world, Never say never. Considering the human mind only uses 4 to 5% of its capability, We are just babies in our own evolution. Alien life probably wouldn't want to show themselves for fear they would interfere. I'm not overly Religious, I do believe in the Human Soul and another state of reality after we Die, I think the church has molded Religion for the purpose of keeping the masses in line. Therefore, I choose to believe in a good and Gracious Higher Being, Keeping in mind that Science and Religion can and have gone hand in hand for thousands of years. I think most people would be able to handle knowing we are not alone, Maybe even relieved.
Where did you get the information that "the human mind only uses 4 to 5% of it capability?" Do you mean the brain? Virtually all of the brain is used. There is a great deal of redundancy (information and functionality) within the brain, which is an evolutionary advantage. From what I know of biology, a major organ that would be 95% unused just doesn't make sense. Sherington's "enchanted loom" is fully operational, just not all operational all the time.
He referring to the potential applications and functions our mind could do if we were disciplined enough.
The statistic that humans only use small portions of our brains is a myth. In fact, while there is still some mystery regarding the specifics of our cognitive abilities, we use all aspects of our brain's real estate.
Just think if it were true. Head trauma would be a relatively harmless consequence and easily treated instead of the opposite.
4 to 5 % hmmm so your saying we are still evoling , and why would we use so little when theres so much. i think we use more than you think ,because we can figure out things ,we use every part of of our brains to learn stuff ..we can think and dream in color .... now we can be in two places at once...yes.... by remote control,its stupit but there you go.....our brains have done superstious things build fraking great citys ...bottom of the sea to the moon baby..even the mars planet man has not made it there yet but he did it by being there by remote
you whole brain is alive 4 to 5 % makes you a pretty lazy civilation...and makes the astacs looks like the first astonats
I meant 5% brain power.. the number i quoted came from a Discovery Channel Documentary from a few yrs back. As for james418 sober up and reread my comment again. I never said we could be in two places at once, Please start using spell check.. you know the red squiggly line under the misspelled word. Your spelling is atrocious. As the great Wal-Mart procrastinator "Larry the Cable Guy" would say...Git er Dun!!
Any educated person knows that the "we only use 3 to 4% of our brains" is a commonly accepted myth. Jeeze, is there any intelligent life here, on Earth?
Your source is the Discovery channel? lol TV? You're educated through your TV? OMG! So a person who can spell properly and spout gibberish has more clout then a person who misspells and communicates intelligently? I guess no illiterate could ever be "smart" in your opinion? I still can’t get over “I saw it on Discovery…”. I didn’t realize that everything we see on TV is true! I always do at least some fact checking. Get off the high horse and come down to earth with the rest of us normal people.
4to5% of your brain describes you well!
i do believe in what you say except for the 4 to 5 % and i am still looking for spell check ...maybe after another cup of coffee and ill myself again
but to get back to aliens ...i would rather see what the world leaders will do first .we all know about shooting first and asking questions later , seems to me we dont get along well enougf to be in the same boat with aliens
Up until the 1870's it took about 6 months to travel from New York to San Fransisco. With the completion of the Continental Railway it took about six days. 30 years later, in 1903 the Wight Brothers took the first powered flight for about 12 seconds. 1903 to 1947 (44 years), Chuck Yeager Flew the Bell X-1 past the speed of sound.
In 1969 (22 years later) Neil and Buzz landed on the moon. So roughly, in a hundred years we went from horse and buggy to a rocket ship landing on the moon. 100 years. So if ET is a thousand years ahead of us, or ten thousand years, what technology do they possess, and why would they even what to talk to us? Do we try to strike up a conversation with a water drop full of amoebas. We still can't get past the color of a person's skin or his religion!! It could probably be argued in some of ET's celebrated halls of academia that there is no intelligent life on earth.
I don't know. Some of the comments I read on news websites and the actions I see from people around me often make me wonder if humans use even that much of their brains. In any case, I hope that we are still evolving because if this is all we are ever going to be, I fail to see the point. If any ET advanced enough to get here could see us, I doubt it would bother to waste their time with us. We are just not that interesting or evolved.
Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the nature of the celestial spheres. To comprehend their nature, it would be necessary to inquire into the meaning of the allusions that have been made in the Books of old to the celestial spheres and the heavens, and to discover the character of their relationship to this physical world, and the influence which they exert upon it. Every heart is filled with wonder at so bewildering a theme, and every mind is perplexed by its mystery. God, alone, can fathom its import.
The learned men, that have fixed at several thousand years the life of this earth, have failed, throughout the long period of their observation, to consider either the number or the age of the other planets. Consider, moreover, the manifold divergences that have resulted from the theories propounded by these men. Know thou that every fixed star hath its own planets, and every planet its own creatures, whose number no man can compute.
-Baha’u’llah
(Gleanings of the Writings of Baha’u’llah pg 163)
Another area of knowledge that will probably prov stranger than fiction.
Recent activity of the Vatican makes me wonder what they know... God's infinite creativity, aliens would be our brothers? God is behind the big bang?
If there are aliens, and they are more advanced than us, do you think I could get a job with them? Do you think their unemployment rate is low? What is the interstellar/intergalactic exchange rate with the US dollar?
A hardcore, but intellectually soft, Christian friend of mine once said he believed in Aliens, but that they were of demonic origin. He got this from a passage somewhere in the Bible that described El Diablo as a "traveler".
If ET or Vulcans or a 1-4-9 Monolith showed up in our skies we would have allot of religious people "Rapturing" themselves of this planet Heavens-Gate style.
With life forms on this planet ranging from worms eating sulphuric acid at 700 degrees and five miles below the surface of the ocean and bacteria and worms living in ice and all different lifeforms inbetween--just on this planet; how can there not be life on other planets?
Our DNA can be a playground for the gods. My personal belief between God and evolution is a stick; the preachers broke the stick and took half of the stick and proclaimed it to be the whole stick. The scientists, not to be out done, proclaimed the same. No one can prove there is not a God. But a Master Plan has to have a creator--and DNA is a master plan. It even allows for changes to be made; while evolution demands there be changes in ALL lifeforms....many lifeforms on this planet have not changed since it first came into being.
If we do have visitors from other planets, I would want them to have a sense of humor. Since we cannot really get off this planet, that means those visitors would have to be more technologically advanced than we are. Would their space ship be as large as a planet? If it was the size of a 747, we could be facing two options: (1) Those people would get along great with everyone. (2) Have a bunch of pentup hostilities and could do us a lot of harm.
TRUST BUT VERIFY.
Sanescience: you might enjoy reading "The Sparrow" by Mary Doria Russel, in which ET calls, and the Vatican answers.
TonyinDallas: science fiction authors anticipated your question. The answer is yes, you could get a job with them--if you're a veterinarian. (They need someone to take care of their zoo animals. Unfortunately, I can't find the story...)
Man, I consider myself a "Skeptic." Literally: I read Skeptic, Skeptical Inquirer, I have stacks of books by Shermer, Harris, Hitchencs & Dawkins(I know, you hate them; spare me the bother, and send all hate mail to them.) I;m an atheist and studied Evo.-Phys. Anthro and Bio. at university, etc. All of that said, I find the UFO/ET idea fascinating, and therefore try to check out anything I come across with an open mind. Some of it really is strange, but I've never seen anything "Indisputable," and conspiracies are by their nature very hard to substantiate until AFTERWARDS.
So it is with all that turning in my head when I say "Dude, this s*#t is getting WEIRD!"
50yrs after Brookings Report, a number that has a nicely rounded, government friendly feel; just as so many nations are on the verge of going "OUT THERE" in something more than a cursory, sub-orbital trip; within 5yrs, maybe 10 at most, of ordinary citizens having access to commercial space tourism; academia has just announced the whole Gliese 581 system debate, ON TOP of the 700 or so OTHER planets located; water on the Moon and Mars, and the hydrogen/methane signals on Mars and Titan; the Vatican putting the "Old Jesus Approved Stamp" on evolution, aliens, and even BAPTIZING aliens...
I don't know. Perhaps it's ALWAYS like this, and being biased towards my own lifetime is affecting my perspective. But the numbers and science are what they are, and statistics say it's entirely possible. The government(s) DO lie, and the world IS stranger than I have imagined.
And wouldn't it be GREAT if all of us science and science fiction fans, "Fringe & Mainstream" alike, had a chance as big as this to stick it in all of the jocks, socies and cool peoples faces! HA! Laugh at my Asimov novels and pale, library tan, cuz your big muscles and shiny hair all but ENSURE that they'll EAT YOU FIRST!! Mwah ha ha. MWAH HA HA HA!
Well put mattHatter...
The fact that we haven't been invaded means that if the UFOs are real, they aren't intent on destroying us... or that they don't exist. There have been numerous government and militery types who have gone on record as saying that they were told to keep it a secret and that they don't know what it is... but that it exists.
SOMETHING is out there. We know water and microbes are out there, so it's almost certain that there are aliens. The only question is contact. Signals are far less likely than contact because of the rapidly expanding universe. Even SETI people have said that the frequencies we monitor aren't likely to be those used by advanced species. They would use far more advanced techniques that we cannot monitor yet.
Just me. . .but I think we probably should spend a little more time on taking care of humans instead of debating what to do or say about yet proven existance of intelligent life of other planets.
I have to say, TVA, that if they ARE out there, and they are more advanced than we are, they would determine that we will not be able to find their advanced signal and resort to something more simple that we could identify and decode. The stuff we sent out on Voyager is as simplistic as we could make it, just in case.
I certainly hope there ARE other intelligent life forms out there. All the sci-fi I've read in my lifetime has created that in me. God or no God, the universe is too vast for us to explore all on our own. Besides, think of all that we could learn and come to understand through the eyes (or other sensory organs) of another civilization!
Jeff-393477- if there is life elsewhere and their intentions are genuinely good, they could offer tech and such that would benefit society. Almost like a StarGate SG-1 getup. (who knows, maybe it already exists) But that's in the event that contact has been made.
You never know these days.
I agree that human society today could handle the news that life exists elsewhere in the universe and shown the evidence to prove it.
I also believe governments do indeed lie, and that current governments on Earth know much more than they have told us about. Possibly this was done to protect us, thinking that we couldn't handle the truth. One of my favorite movies "Men in Black" had a line that went something like; "Why not tell the whole world? People are smart, they could handle it." "No a person is smart, people are dumn, frightened panicky creatures and you know it."
Well I think most people would be smart enough to handle it.
I don't know why my post showed up here but it did...
Todd, I think you are right-on about governments lying and covering this up. The conspiracy is far larger than most folks would imagine. Only the US Govt continues to play ostrich on this one; most are far closer to full disclosure on the subject. MiB is hilarious precisely because of how many simple, straight-forward facts are presented in that movie ... if with a bit of understandable hyperbole in order to make a blockbuster hit.
Close Encounters of the Third Kind was another of several movies carefully placed before the public's eye to test reaction. The real event took place at Hollomon AFB . The Day the Earth Stood Still, original version, is another such movie which tries to get Humanity to understand that our neighbors won't stand for the kind of recklessness and foolishness which we practice here on our planet.
Over 60 visiting ET species or variations are known by the US Military. Of those catalogued, it is clear that most are here for either neutral purposes (such as scientific observation and diplomancy) or explicitly to try and assist us before we blow ourselves up. Why do you think the Roswell crash occurred in 1947? This was not because ET was here for the first time. But the detonation of the atom bomb and additional testing of more destructive nukes certainly got our neighbors' attention.
I would recommend these short YouTube clips if anyone is further interested:
Keep an open mind, with a healthy and reasonable dose of skepticism! Indeed, which is more likely? That we are alone in this Cosmos, with billions of galaxies clustered together, each containing billions of stars ... perhaps nearly ALL of which contain numerous orbiting planets? Or that our neighbors are as countless as the grains of sand on an endless beach, since after all, truth is often far stranger than fiction. Sure, most of this life is quite a few light years away, but science will gradually be forced to sheepishly admit that faster-than-light travel is not at all impossible.
You couldn't convince me that ET hasn't been here since 1947 and prior ... if your life depended on it. Do a little reading on the 1952 UFO incident over the WHITE HOUSE in Washington, D.C., and the National Press Conference held by the Air Force as a result.
There are always the reactionary few who will be especially upset, panicky and fearful any time new ideas are advanced regarding the basic processes, nature and purpose of life. These people should ponder nanotechnology a little, investigate how many circuits are now on a state-of-the-art microchip, and consider that perhaps President Truman did meet ET ... at Hollomon. If only he had been a little more trusting that the Peace which they proposed was, and is, absolutely necessary in order for our planet to move forward in her evolution!
Two political scientists Dr. Alexander Wendt and Dr. Raymond Duvall published a 26 page paper in the journal Political Theory. In that paper, the two authors give a detailed analysis of why governments ignore the UFO phenomenon. These two political scientists approach the subject of the possibility that non-terrestrial life may have or is visiting the Earth from the point of view of governments and scientists who regularly dismiss the arguments for the possibilities.
These two co-authors suggest that several factors may steer governments and religions away from the possibilities altogether. Among those possibilities for denial are: "We are alone." Even though we have discovered close to 500 extrasolar planets and that the vastness of the Universe itself would dictate mathematically, that we probably aren't alone. "They can't get here." Relativity, tells us nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. Of course this fact is based on our current ideas about physics. "They would land on the White House lawn." Would they? A much advanced civilization may have a policy of non-interference, much as we have hypothesized. We could not know their intentions. "We would know if they were here." Our constant surveillance of the sky with radar and telescopes would have spotted them by now. Some radar systems software packages aren't programed to spot extremely fast or extremely slow objects and are programed to dismiss them from the system. Also, in the view of official secrecy about UFOs, more is probably known than is publicly acknowledged.
The political scientists go on to say that the "Threat" to governments and religions is threefold. If the UFO is truly unidentified, and an unknown, a potential very powerful "other," represents a potential physical threat. As such, this potential threat calls into question a governments ability to protect its citizens. Second, (as partially touched on in this article) governments might react negatively to a confirmation of a extraterrestrial presence and the tremendous pressure to create a World Government, which today's territorial states would be loath to form. The sovereign identity of modern states depends on their difference from one another. Anything that required subsuming the difference into a global sovereignty would threaten the fundamental structure of these states. Number three: In the modern world, political organization everywhere is based on the assumption that ONLY human beings have the ability and authority to govern and determine our collective fates. The contention, therefore, is that the political survival of our modern states depends on that question NOT being politically salient. As such, an authoritative TABOO on extraterrestrial life and UFOs is functionally necessary for rule to be sustained in its present form.
In sum, the extraterrestrial/UFO threat creates a deep, unconscious insecurity in which certain possibilities are unthinkable because of their inherent danger. In this respect the UFO/extraterrestrial taboo is akin to denial in psychoanalysis: Sovereign governments repress the idea of extraterrestrials and UFOs out of fear of what it might reveal about itself. There is therefore nothing for the sovereign to do but turn away its gaze--to ignore, and hence be ignorant of the possibility, and make no decision at all.
Many of these paragraphs were taken from the recent New York Times best seller by Lesli Kean, UFOs Generals, Pilots and Government Officials go on the Record. (chapter 27)
i for one am firmly in the belief that we are are most certainly not "alone" in this vast universe. i am intrigued at the studies and research thus far and believe whole heartedly that we have been assisted in evolution and technology in several different time periods. every ancient culture has written accounts of "sky people" and other such verbage. i believe we have learned from these beings previously and are very close to the next HUGE enlightenment. the simple fact that countries are {including our own} building mass underground facilities and the vatican has acknowledged a bit more every few years leading up to evolution theories now accepted. so much physical proof around the world is impossible to deny, the megalific structures built around the world, the endless written accounts of visitors, the stone ruins in peru in which were cut to perfect symetry that cannot be duplicated to date, the physical impossibilities involved with the moving and placing of 50 ton stones, it is insane to disscredit the idea that we are not alone and all evidence shows we have been through several "learning" periods in which it seems as though our entire race evolved overnight. i have done a load of research from credible sources and i believe we will all know undoubtedly of the existance of other beings, and will very soon transform our entire way of life once again as it has happened over and over again through the history of mankind. i am far less afraid than i am enthusiastic to know whats next! and whats next is soon to be learned.
Andrew - While I have no doubt that we are not the only intelligent species in this galaxy, I find it highly unlikely that the government is covering up the fact that they've already met a few.
MattHatter "And wouldn't it be GREAT if all of us science and science fiction fans, "Fringe & Mainstream" alike, had a chance as big as this to stick it in all of the jocks, socies and cool peoples faces! HA! Laugh at my Asimov novels and pale, library tan, cuz your big muscles and shiny hair all but ENSURE that they'll EAT YOU FIRST!! Mwah ha ha. MWAH HA HA HA!" We are not laughing or mocking what you believe in! We are laughing at you. Don't you wipe the sleep from your eyes and comb your hair? Walking is fundamental but when you walk, much less run, why do you look like you're going to fall down. Hey, here's a clue, you wear turtle necks around your neck not your pants. Please, we know you have a mirror. Check it out once in a while. And that obnoxious laugh, record that sometime for a reality trip. But don't count of them eating us first because we will team (ever been on one) up and kick their ass. They will of course eat you. They have evolved and don't eat me they eat algae. Hey stop posting and get ready for your date. Oh wait, you've never had one. Good luck but don't count on revenge, HA, HA, HA.
Jeff, you say that as if it isn't happening. As if we as a civilization can't do both at once, or that somehow we could 'take care of ourselves' better if we didn't (and so few of us do) ask these profound questions...
GimDan, I've found it an interesting paradox that many people hope that ETs we contact, by whatever means, will bestow knowledge and technology on us, hopefully so that we might improve the human condition...
...And yet, with memories of clashes of civilizations on this world, and what the effect typically has been for the less technologically advanced, some of out fiction (most notably Star Trek's 'Prime Directive') embodies the idea that we should not interfere, or even make our existence/presence known to the less advanced that we may one day encounter, for fear of repeating those past mistakes.
We want help, but we'd be afraid to give help, if we were in a position to do so.
I know you're not saying this yourself, GimDan, but logically, one cannot have it both ways...
Alien must look like Keanu Reeves and show up with a Trojan Horse. A watershed event if ever there was one.
Our expanding shell of EM radiation is ~100 lightyears thick. If we continue to use the EM spectrum for communication for another century before the Zombie Apocalypse wipes us out or we start using more secure Entanglement communication technology, we will have an outwardly expanding shell of our collective "noise" that is incredibly thin by galactic standards. Over the distance that this shell could reasonable be heard before receding into the background noise, there may be dozens of examples of alien civilization. But how many are using the EM to communicate? How many are in VR staring at the alien equivalent of virtual boobies, too "busy" to notice our Top 40 and Millionaire?
It's out there, so it's not life changing. Life changing perhaps if such alien life was found or made contact. Discovering the western world was life changing for the world, so contact with new life would be for sure.
Not that any civilized life would want to make contact with us. We're a f'ed up race, violent and destructive, and incredibly young (primitive). I think it's safe to say it's a fact the only interests world governments (all of em) would have in ET visiting us would be to gain technology... In particular, weapons technology. Short of developing the means of travel between solar systems (wormholes, space folding, hyperspace, whatever), we won't be coming into contact with friendlies. And who knows what we'll find. As it stands, the only kind of alien race that would make contact with us at this point would be the kind that wants to either enslave us, eat us, or exterminate us and suck up all the natural resources.
I think if that were the case they could've done that a long time ago. If they are out there and they have been visiting us for a long time, they could have easily used germ ware fare or any other means to easily destroy us. Especially if you look at what we do to each other, we're babies on the evo scale of things and destroy ourselves everyday with weapons like these. So if they have the means to visit us, their weapons would far surpass ours in ever way.
We are at the very beginning of the space age. Just barely stepping "out there." And "out there" is vast - almost beyond comprehension. We may find intelligent life soon - within the next 100 years or so, but that would be serendipity. We would have to have many, perhaps thousands, of missions to many destinations, which would be very costly, so it's very unlikely. A more likely contact would be as a result of signals that we pick up through SETI or other means and then respond to verify if it is a artificially generated signal. Although, if we want to respond we need to consider the intent of the intelligent alien life per Stephen Hawking's admonition that it may not be friendly. And if they are not friendly - that would definitely change my life!
Its funny that for centuries, native americans of which I am one, have been talking about other dimensions. Just now science is getting around to accepting that interpretation, with Quantum Physics. They also have legends of star people and demons. Just perhaps all this UFO and Bigfoot stuff has some basis in truth, as even very credible people have made reports. Certainly any space races that could reach us would have technologies at their disposal that would resemble them being god like to us. I do agree that find microbes on Mars may not have much impact to our societies world wide, but should we make contact with another intelligence, now that may be different, especially if they can get here.
As SETI researcher Chris Boyce pointed out, just before he died in 1999, if ETIs exist, then they're probably millions of years ahead of us. If so, then they may well have technologies so unobtrusive that we wouldn't know we were being studied. Who's to say, that after millions of years of living in free space, ETIs would even be that interested in planets? Our solar system, and probably almost every star in the Galaxy, is surrounded by a cloud of comets, in convenient sized lumps for utilization. That is likely the natural home of star-travelling intelligence, not sweating up close to a star. All the nay-sayers are taking too parochial a view of what intelligence could do to transform itself over billennia. We're barely able to imagine a century ahead - look how silly 19th century views of the 21st century seem today - let alone 10,000 or 100,000 times that timespan.
Just one thing more. If Quantum Theories are correct and our minds play a direct roll in what we perceive as reality, then most certainly there will be intelligence out there, because we have thought of it. First however, we must get rid of our infatuations with war and killing, otherwise we wont be around to see it happen.
Whatever we believe we should always keep an open mind 'cos' we just don't know whats out there ... yet!
"Some Christian theologians, such as Wolfhart Pannenberg, say Jesus came to save E.T. as well as humans — while others (including Paul Tillich and Karl Rahner) have suggested that there could be multiple incarnations of alien saviors, Peters says."
What arrogance these people have. If intelligent alien life is discovered, and it turns out that they have no concept of religion, it will be the final nail in religion's coffin. Sure, the faithful will be in denial for many years, perhaps decades, and I'm sure that there will be those who feel that it's their duty to convert other intelligent civilizations, but eventually organized religion will die out. Of course, historically speaking all religions end up dying out, but the discovery of intelligent alien life would probably expedite the process.
Also, we cannot expect other forms of life to perceive the universe the same way we do. In other words, we do not know how they communicate, what sort of senses they have, or even if they exhibit the same kinds of emotions that we have. We may find life that is so bizarrely different from ours that communication is impossible.
So in the end, it's really pointless to speculate what sort of cognitive attributes aliens have, and even more pointless to preemptively conform our notions of aliens to religious expectations.
I sure as hell wouldn't want Jesus' job. Imagine, going to different worlds to get crucified! What's stink'in job! On a more serious note, I expect that there are indeed many civilizations out there that are more advanced than us - and I hope the vast distances keep us separated. Otherwise, we could end up like the Aztecs when the spaniards landed on their turf.
Did Native Americans give up Native belief systems because a (militarily) superior group arrived/invaded? When Japan suffered nuclear attacks, did they give up their religions? If a superior atheist/non-religious Alien group arrived, would all just stop believing? Highly doubtful. Where does this notion that "historically speaking all religions end up dying out" fit in? Christianity is "only" 2,000 years old, more or less, but there are religions far older. Judaism, Hindi, Taoism, etc.
JBond
Well, I think that's his whole point. The sad fact that no matter what the evidence is ... the theological community has mastered the art of moving the goal posts and evolving their dogmas to fit mainstream beliefs (once the science has simply become to hard for any thinking person to deny.)
Take evolution. While there is still a small community ignorant about evolution, the majority of sophisticated theologians now accept it (including the pope and the church.) They just say: "This just proves how awesome god is ... even more than we thought!" Which, of course is intellectually dishonest.
It's odd you can't see how religions die? I guess, since you are currently apart of one of the popular ones (at the moment anyway,) it's hard for you to comprehend. But, I would remind you that man has invented thousands of recorded religions. Most, are now buried in the crypt we call mythology. And all (at one time) had thousands of devout followers.
However, your religion is much older than 2,000 years. Christianity is an extension of other pagan/Egyptian religions. Ever read about the history of Christmas? You should .... considering it wasn't always "Christ" we worshiped, but rather Saturn.
You're more than welcome to these beliefs my friend. But, you think the story behind Christianity is unimpressive to us lowly atheists .... try explaining Jesus to a supreme intelligence capable of transversing the cosmos. I would not want to be around for that conversation!
chad-1841583 -
Interesting post & assumptions. I must disagree that Christianity - the following of the teachings of Jesus Christ - is "much older than 2,000 years." As for Christmas, nothing in the Bible nor in early Christian writings supports it. Quite the opposite considering its .. unsavory origins.
You are correct, man has invented thousands of religions - there exist well over 3,000 active religions today. But just as with science, there is only one truth. There have been thousands of incorrect scientific facts and theories - and there will continue to be. But accurate science and accurate religion are not in conflict. Many have an either/or mentality that find things hard to comprehend.
I would, in fact I would love to video tape it and post it on Youtube.
JBond
I would wonder how you've come to the conclusion that your faith should be defined as truth? Or, at least in the terms you put them, the "only one truth"? You brought up the significant number of varying faiths found throughout the world, but have not brought into the discussion why one has relevance, beauty or substance over another (which, I'd assume you would insert as yours*.)
I wonder, if the varying believers of said "3,000 religions" could look at the circumstances with which they've been brought to their faith (the simple, trivial happenstance of geo/cultural birth and location,) would they then somehow take pause regarding their notions of truth? Do we receive revelation through the means and locations with which we are born? If so, isn't it odd that we just happen to be born into the correct religions? The religions and heritages of our parents?
No, I'll use inquiry and skeptical thought on my journey for anything even remotely resembling a glimpse of "truth." Then, after I think I've discovered it, I will remind myself just how ignorant I am regarding life and the universe (and especially truth). Then and only then could I claim a hint of knowledge with a clear conscious.
*I have assumed you are christian given your responses. I apologize if my assumption is false.
Chad -
It is possible to use "inquiry and skeptical thought" with religion as well. For instance, we both know that Christmas doesn't fall on the birth-date of Jesus, nor is it a "new" celebration. We know this how? By inquiry and skeptical thought, from the Bible and from researching traditions of the holiday. So, armed with this knowledge, from a Christian perspective we know it to be, shall we say, less than true. Yet few among the "faithful" know or care.
Finally, anyone who believes they have all the answers is claiming godhood.
(Sorry, I've been out of it for a week & am unsure if you are still listening here. If you are, I'd enjoy continuing our exchanges. You assumption is correct, but of a "non-standard" variety.)
I guess I'm confused on why you would ascribe to Christianity in the first place then? If, as you've said, you can see the manmade-hands involved in much of its dogmas and pseudo-revelations. Personally, I feel much more awe and transcendent experience can come from leaving behind the bricks of faith and replacing them with skeptical inquiry.
I'm an atheist, but I consider myself to be quite spiritual. Science is the greatest instrument mankind has ever produced and I (unlike some of my contemplatives) think there's a certain stigma in limiting science with the black and white realms of physicality, while narrowing our passion and drive to explore the unknown. While I don't believe in the supernatural realm, it sometimes feels tragic to take science away from the "unknown" and limit it to natural terms? It could be one day we discover certain aspects that seem supernatural or beyond the natural, are more than likely still within the physical universe, but outside our current scientific limitations, therefore cloaked in mystery. But, we must accept mystery and not belittle it's very real power. This is why people are so often skeptical of science. They have very real, transcendent experiences of veneration, and we (as atheists) are telling them they are misunderstanding these experiences. But, they are not. They are simply defining them in limiting terms of manmade notions of magisteria and religion.
Partly, this is why I feel people have such a problem with parting from religion. They feel science is dry and lacking in the majestical-qualities they can develop through their faith. But, this couldn't be further from the truth. It's through the discoveries of science that we capture even greater questions and mysteries about the world. It's a shame we're not able to capture the imaginations of those so passionate about Christ, or Allah. There is such a wondrous realm of very real, tangible science out there that they could be discovering ... and, even contributing to. I'll never understand it. How can anyone listen to Carl Sagan speak about the aesthetics of the universe, yet find more beauty in a burning bush, or a set of scripts with the undeniable fingerprint of man? Perhaps that is the true miracle. The fact that such passion still lies within misinformation and pseudoscience even though there are an infinite number of very real beauties and mysteries found within our lives and our universe. So, I guess my original question remains. I can grasp your need for the journey. But I simply can't understand how you find satisfaction in the divine .... or, are satisfied with their answers?
To me, Neil deGrasse sums it up best: "Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool. That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us."
Bah - I accidentally deleted my whole comment and I have to go. I'll try and repost tomorrow.
Aside, from the possibility that extraterrestrials might possess techonology that would benefit mankind or the Hawking's view that the alien's could show up acting more like the Klingon's or the Borg rather than the Vulcans.
I don't think the arrival of the aliens would change much at all. We humans are pretty self-centered and self-involved. Once the "new" wears off and the 24 hour news cycle moves on to the next BIG story we'll be pretty ho-hum about our new alien friends.
We'll start passing laws to send them back to their home worlds until they make application for citizenship through the proper channels and we'll complain about the "cost" of their prescence on our planet and how they are overloading social services, etc. Pretty much business as usual. It doesn't matter if you're an alien from Mexico or Alpha Centauri. We'll get down to the business of discriminating against them pretty quickly.
I hate to say it but I do agree with you.
I think if alliens are looking down on this third rock from the sun, the reason they have not revealed them selves' to us yet is because they must think this place is an insane asylum.
Reading this, I keep remembering that first Twilight Zone episode: TO SERVE MAN! It was and still is a classic!
To even question if extraterrestrial life exists is purely ignorant by human beings. To think that we are alone in the universe shouldnt even be a question that we ask ourselves. We should be asking when, if we havent already, will we be interacting with these "people". I am 26, and my generation no longer believes in religion, we are different in our thoughts and embrace the fact that we may very well soon be encountered by a civilization from another planet. I do believe that we have already, but that is up for debate. If they were here to destroy us we would have known this by now.
My advice to anyone is to not be worried by their ever increasing presence in our skies. They may just hold the key to help us save the beautiful planet we have destroyed with our current way of life. It is time that all of humanity stop worrying about visa bills, flat screen tvs, the latest sports car and MTV. Its time to ask ourselves deeper, more meaningful question. Who are we, where did we come from and who else is out there.
You hit it on the nose, it looks as though our generation is applying more logic than the rest. It makes sense that other life exists around us and that religion is most likely a way to control the masses. The traditions of yesterday do not apply to us anymore. I believe we have discovered that there is more to life than what our for fathers tell us it should be. Listen to Michael people and open your third eye, there is so much more to life than the materialistic crap and gene spliced corn being fed to us.
Up until the 1870's it took about 6 months to travel from New York to San Fransisco. With the completion of the Continental Railway it took about six days. 30 years later, in 1903 the Wight Brothers took the first powered flight for about 12 seconds. 1903 to 1947 (44 years), Chuck Yeager Flew the Bell X-1 past the speed of sound.
In 1969 (22 years later) Neil and Buzz landed on the moon. So roughly, in a hundred years we went from horse and buggy to a rocket ship landing on the moon. 100 years. So if ET is a thousand years ahead of us, or ten thousand years, what technology do they possess, and why would they even what to talk to us? Do we try to strike up a conversation with a water drop full of amoebas. We still can't get past the color of a person's skin or his religion!! It could probably be argued in some of ET's celebrated halls of academia that there is no intelligent life on earth.
I saw a bill board ad for the Beef Industry that said: They are taking our beef because it tastes so good. Apparently they are here to plunder body parts, both human and animal alike, at least if you believe the stories! That great man sang: " Theres UFOs over New York and I ain't to surprised!"
You would likely get much different responses if you had asked a slightly different question. If someone put out the question, "Would alien life participating in our world or using your body cause you to change your thinking or beliefs?"
By mentioning the intention of the alien life to live on earth and within our eco system and even within our very bodies, you might get a much different response? How many people would be willing to host an alien living inside of them? Because eventually a new member of our colonies would have an impact on all of the previously existing life forms, and we'd have to come to terms with whatever decision was made regarding allowing that alien to cohabitate.
As long as people consider aliens as only visitors, they feel one way, but open it to the possibility of some alien race taking over earth, and the core of their being is threatened.
If there is one thing I have learned in 59 years is that the Universe abhors singularity. Look at the way anything is done here on the planet we live on. Every thing, every last thing I can identify is replicated over and over again. Look at the recent discoveries of solar systems outside our own. Look at DNA, it is nothing more than a cockamamey long winded computer code listing. Cells in plants and animals are nothing more than massively parallel organic computers which enable a plethora of different multitasking von Neuman machines. If we, the few limited species of plants and animals are the only example of "LIFE" currently in the Universe, it is only because we fell into a time niche where the universe is loafing.
And look at you. Where there is one assumptive idiot, there are others. You've made your point.
First they have to prove there is any intelligent life anywhere in the universe. I doubt if there is any on this planet.
What amazes me is that they make these grandiose assumptions and then try to make fools believe it and then expand their postulations as though it is fact. Only after they find one civilization can they begin to make an assumption. What they've done is thrown the scientific method out the window and replaced it with the science fiction method.
"What amazes me is that they make these grandiose assumptions and then try to make fools believe it and then expand their postulations as though it is fact. Only after they find one civilization can they begin to make an assumption. What they've done is thrown the scientific method out the window and replaced it with the science fiction method."
The scientific method is intact. The first step is to ask a question. The second step is to look for evidence to support your question or statement.
Speculation is also part of the process. You can't find answers, in science, unless you ask questions, no matter how strange they may seem at the time.
Remember when fossils on mountaintops could only be explained by a worldwide flood?
unfortunately there are still a lot of people out there who think a worldwide flood caused most of the geography you see.
Mr Puddle, it's the second part they've skipped. There is absolutely no evidence of intelligent life anyplace else in the universe. Everything else is mere speculation.
What if we were the only civilization in the universe? What if something happened on this planet that is so rare that the odds of repeating it are infinitesimal? What if all natural environments on any planet capable of supporting intelligent life are so hostile as to make it almost impossible to sustain any civilization. Humanity almost perished. It was only by a hair that it didn't happen.
These are questions any intelligent life would be expected to ask as well as the one, are we alone? Anything less would render us unintelligent and incapable of the thought necessary to care. Of course humanity will search for other civilizations. We are a curious lot. We also have an extremely fertile imagination. I'm simply pointing out the obvious. Science is putting the cart ahead of the horse and they need to be very careful in doing so. It's ok for what passes for journalists to leapfrog the process. It's not ok for science.
Jack, and what evidence do you have that life only exists on this planet? Lack of evidence of ET's out in the Universe is not proof that they do not exist or that other life exists in the universe.
The key element of proof that life is out there will be finding living or fossilized microbes, bacteria or virus in our solar system, or beyond. If that exists then that in itself makes the possibility for intelligent life in the universe pretty much a given.
using pure numbers the possability of life is almost a given, there are just way to many stars and planets out there, you need to also take into account that right now we are crawling like a baby in our hunt for planets, look at the advancements in planet hunting technology just in the last 10+ years, I wonder what it will be like in another 10+ years.
Time is all we need, if life is out there and close enough we will find it even if its just microbs on a planet in our solar system.
Michael Riolo is correct when he says to question the existence of other life is ignorance. I would add that it is the height of human arrogance to suggest we are alone and unique. Most of those little dots in the sky are entire galaxies. The Bible does did not say God created Earth only on the third planet of one particular star in one typical spiral galaxy.
As for supposed alien visitors, what civilization with the technology for interstellar travel would visit Roswell NM and then need the next sixty plus years trying to figure out whether to greet us or just eat us?
We've been broadcasting our existence into space for only a century or so, and there's not much within 100 light-years.
Anyone who believes that the human race is unique has no concept of the vastness of the universe or the laws of probability. Current estimates indicate that there are approximately 170 billion galaxies in our universe. Each galaxy contains anywhere between 10 million to 100 trillion stars. We don't yet know the percentage of stars with planets but even a ratio of one in a million would result in billions of planets. Does anyone actually believe that we are it??
I can think of nothing more thrilling and awe inspiring than learning that we are not alone!
I find it unlikely that life does not exist on other planets somewhere. I also find it unlikely that what we might consider intelligent life does not exist somewhere. There are just too many planets and I find it unlikely that similar events didn't happen somewhere.
Now, for ET to develop the capability to travel to other planets is much, much harder. So I think that it's entirely possible that no other intelligent life has come up with the means to travel to other planets, or if it has happened it just might be so intensive that they can only do it on occasion, so it might have happened so few times, or not at all, that our little planet has never been found in that respect. But ET could be looking at us through their powerful telescopes as we were hundreds, or thousands of years ago. They might not be able to see people, but they could probably see the biosphere of our planet in general.
first we have to "convert" them so the Rapture can happen. seriously, i think if we found intelligent life, it would be the beginning of bringing down a LOT of social institutions. who knows what effect THAT would have. it could be wonderful as it would have been without them in the first place, or it could be devastating because of the rapid decay of parts of society. but, who am i to say but just an old opinionator.
obviously at least one major religious institution takes the idea seriously. For once I have to give it to the Catholic Church for embracing science rather than trying to suppress it like the rest of "mainstream" aka fundamentalist Christianity.
I think that its impossible for there to NOT be other life in this infinite universe.
There is more hard proof that Aliens\EBE visits this planet\solar system daily and has done so for at least 1 million years than there is for God. Yet most people ignore that facts and are blind to data. Gordy Cooper mercury astronaut said before the UN he saw alien air craft as he orbited he earth. I mean USA be 1950 US scientist were saying you can't travel faster than the speed of sound. While Germans scientist had jets that could break the sound barrier in 1938. Wake up people. Check this link out and enlighten your self.
Don't understand your reference to 1950. The sound barrier was broken by CPT Charles "Chuck" Yeager - an American - on October 14, 1947 in the Bell X1. Germany did develop and fly the world's first turbojet in 1939 - the Heinkel He 178. Only one aircraft was produced however and it only flew at approx. 375 MPH. Germany also developed the world's first operational jet fighter in mid-1943, the Messerschmitt Me 262 - a twin jet aircraft capable of speeds in excess of 500 MPH. Too little too late with respect to their war efforts and well short of the speed of sound.
"wake up people. check this link out and ENLIGHTEN yourself"???
strange request from someone with faulty data!
Anybody prior to 1940 claiming that the sound barrier couldn't be broken was just plain ignorant. In fact, I claim that man had been breaking the sound barrier since shortly after the dawn of civilization.
Think I'm crazy? Consider this: the crack of a whip is a sonic boom.
www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/REPORTS_ARTICLES/Apollo20-InterviewWithWilliamRutledge.htm
Tachyeon:
I find your tip on Gordo Cooper to be very interesting - thanks! I found a couple of interesting youtube videos. I had not idea that Cooper had seen what he had seen.
However, Apollo 20 (as well as Apollo 18 & 19) and William Rutledge are completely fictional. There is just no way that NASA could secretly launch a Saturn V rocket.
If you would focus on your good leads, and steer away from those that don't have a chance in hell of being correct, you would make more progress with people like me.
Cheers! ~Michael (AFM*Radio / Astronomy.FM)