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Chevrolet
Volt owner Steve Wojtanek says he's averaging 122 miles per gallon of gasoline in Boca Raton, Fla., mostly because he's driving the bulk of his miles on battery power.
You might not think of electric cars as long-haul vehicles, but months of real-world driving reveal that they can be long-distance marathoners — under the right conditions. Chevrolet, for example, is reporting that the average Volt driver is going 1,000 miles between gasoline fill-ups. And for the most part, Nissan Leaf owners are perfectly happy to do without the gas tank altogether.
It's been six months since we first took to the highways for our first "Electric Road Trip," which is enough time for electric-car automakers to work out the bugs in the system. Nissan came across a software glitch that could keep the battery-powered Leaf from starting, but the main issue has been availability. Only 5,300 Leafs have been sold worldwide, including about 500 in the United States. But Nissan says it will be accelerating production and taking reservations again as of May 1.
Meanwhile, Chevrolet has sold about 1,500 Volts as of the end of March, and the company says sales will be going nationwide by the end of the year. The company has been keeping track of Volt driving patterns through its OnStar network, and the data suggest that Volt owners are getting savvier about maximizing battery use and minimizing use of the car's gasoline-powered "range extender." During March, the average mileage between fill-ups went from 800 to 1,000 miles, Chevrolet reported last week.
Chevy pointed to two Volt owners in particular: Gary Davis of Greenville, S.C., said he went two months between gas purchases and figures his gasoline usage at 547 miles per gallon. Steve Wojtanek of Boca Raton, Fla., said that 2,225 of the 3,417 miles he recorded were driven on battery power, which works out to 122 mpg.
Those figures don't take the electricity expense into account. The Environmental Protection Agency's rating suggests that the Volt gets the equivalent of 93 mpg on electricity alone, 37 mpg when the gasoline engine is running, and 60 mpg for combined battery-gasoline power. The Leaf gets a combined EPA rating of 99 miles per gallon equivalent.
Your mileage may vary
When it comes to electric cars, that age-old saying — "Your mileage may vary" — never rang truer.
"It's almost a game to see what you can do to get the best mileage out of it," Wojtanek said of his Volt.
Wojtanek told me he's changed his driving style to boost the Volt's efficiency. Quick starts or stops are kept to a minimum. It also helps that most of his trips are short jaunts around Boca Raton, which provides plenty of opportunities for charging up between drives. Pretty much the only time the gas engine turns on is when the 55-year-old commercial actor (and retired airline pilot) takes a trip to Fort Lauderdale or Miami. The round trip to Miami is 98 miles, and generally the gas kicks in after about 40 miles of all-electric driving. "Forty-three miles is about the best I get on the battery," he said.
Wojtanek, who counts a Rolls-Royce and even a replica Batmobile among his past purchases, said the Volt ranks high on his list. "This is the first Chevy since I had a Corvette back in 1991. ... For my driving, this is the best," he said.
He acknowledged that if you consider economics alone, it'll take a long time to make up the difference between a standard gasoline-powered car and the Volt, which retails for more than $40,000 before tax breaks. "The question is, how long does it take to recoup the cost?" he observed. "Every time gas prices go up, the time to recoup gets shorter."
Getting smart about batteries
The Nissan Leaf is cheaper ($33,000 before tax breaks), and the fact that it doesn't use a single drop of gasoline is especially appealing for electric-car purists. But gasoline-free operation also means that the Leaf has a more limited range, and some have complained that the car can quickly run out of juice and leave a driver stranded.
"Some knowledge about lithium-ion batteries helps," Patrick Van Der Hyde, a Seattle-area Leaf owner, told me today.
When the Leaf's battery gets near the end, it can deplete quickly, depending on the driving conditions. "All sorts of things affect range, just like all sorts of things affect gas mileage," said Van Der Hyde, who works for an electric-grid management company. "We average about 10 trips a day in the car, and most of those drives are five miles or less."
Van Der Hyde said he can expect to get 70 miles of "straight-out freeway driving" from a full charge, or closer to 100 miles if the car is in Eco-mode and he sticks to roads where he can travel 40 to 50 mph.
In the five months since I put the Leaf through its paces, dozens of electric-vehicle charging stations have been added to the Department of Energy's list for the Seattle area, but Van Der Hyde said the Leaf will really come into its own when fast-charging DC electric stations are installed throughout the region. That will enable the car's owners to get a full charge in a half-hour, as opposed to about seven hours for a 220-volt home charging station or 16 hours for your standard 110-volt outlet. (Right now, the Department of Energy says the closest DC fast-charger is in Portland, Ore., which is more than 170 miles from Seattle.)
'Primary car' ... except for road trips
Van Der Hyde said his family uses the Leaf as the "primary car in the way we think about it," and keeps a Honda Odyssey around for road trips.
That's the same strategy followed by Jon Hoekstra, senior scientist with The Nature Conservancy, who was the Seattle area's first Leaf owner. He uses the Leaf for commuting, for the occasional trip to the airport (which has plug-in parking stalls meant for electric vehicles) and even quick jaunts out of town.
"It does everything we need our car to do with the exception of road trips — and that's OK, because we didn't expect that," Hoekstra told me today.
Hoekstra and his wife bought the Leaf back in December to reduce their carbon footprint, and their fuel bill as well. "It really doesn't take much juice," he said. "I think I figured it's 3 cents a mile."
As much as possible, he tries to treat the Leaf like a regular car. "I deliberately have tried not to be a 'hypermiler,'" he said. In the first four months of driving, there's been only one time when the family felt the fear of running out of power. Hoekstra said that happened because the car wasn't fully charged up before the trip, and because nasty weather reduced driving efficiency — all contributing to a perfect storm for range anxiety.
Fortunately, the Leaf made it back home before the electricity ran out. "Other than that one occasion, it's been great," Hoekstra siad.
Do you have electric-vehicle experiences to share? Are you on a waiting list, or are you waiting for other EVs such as the Ford Focus Electric or the plug-in Prius to make their appearance? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.
More about electric vehicles:
- Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt get top safety ratings
- Chevy Volt offers a taste of electric car's future
- Video: Get set for 'Revenge of the Electric Car'
- Toyota eyes magnesium batteries for EVs
- 10 electric cars you can buy in 2011
Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page or following @b0yle on Twitter. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
Leave a Comment:
Electrical isnt very effective. It takes power plants to make electricity...
I'm a Volt owner and I couldn't be happier. I've driven about 70% of my 2600+ miles fully electric, saving me approximately $300 so far in gas expenses as compared to my 2008 Mercedes C300 (that figure factors in the cost of electricity). Savings as compared to my wife's Volkswagen TDI are a little less impressive (a little over $100) as that vehicle gets excellent mileage, actually besting the Volt's gas-only consumption.
The Volt makes perfect sense for me given that I average about 20-45 miles a day. It's nice to know I can go further when I need to without the fear of having to be towed home with a dead battery!
I'm keeping a blog of my experiences here:
Link didn't stick. But I am interested in hearing about your real-world experience with the car. And I'm sure others are as well.
Can you repost?
My guess is that it's this blog:
http://www.lonseidman.com/tag/chevy-volt/
I think you have to be around Newsvine for a while before they let you post links, which is why Lon's earlier link didn't go through.
That would make sense. Thanks!
And you paid out the a$$ for the priveledge-when the price comes down the sales will go up. Not to mention, who is letting you plug in free of charge at the far end-it won't be business owners who want you to shop there unless you are paying inflated prices for their merch. Wake up, oil companies will not take a hit, they will just keep raising the price of gas the more fuel efficient we become. Remember cheap diesel? As soon as the public was sold on diesel vehicles, AMAZING!!! th price of diesel fuel exceeded that of gas-gee what a surprise. As a consumer you are thinking 5-10yrs down the road, as a business, utilities think 10-20-50 and allow you access to fit the profit model. It begins with your representation in government and they belong to the utilities-natural gas, heating oil, vehicle fuel. Your energy future was bought before it crossed your mind.
The truth is, is that the demand is all around but the mainstream fossil fuel lobby types and the outright
ownership of the North American governments ( Canada and the US) by the "oil" companies don't want this to happen. SO, they make it seem like hippie stuff from the 60's or "green" things that , in a very stupid way" ...WORKS !
Exactly......electric cars, solar power, windmills - these are not the solutions to getting the world off of fossil fuel burning and earth destroying methods of obtaining energy. Energy exists in the fabric of space all around us - Tesla discovered that a hundred years ago. Look at pictures taken 100 years ago of urban America city centers and you see the same grid of power lines that we STILL have today. This is a crime against humanity. There are 5000 patents/inventions that are frozen in the (supposed) interests of national security. Some of those inventions involve devices that harness this free energy. Congress is not going to change this. Presidents are not going to change this. We really need an Egypt-like march on Washington. Imagine everyone who is unemployed in this country actually camping out in front of the White House and the Pentagon – threatening not to leave or even eat until true change happens.
In my opinion the tech for pure electric vehicles isn't there yet. Not to mention we don't have the power production capacity to switch EVERYONE over to electric by next year. It would take a huge build up of power plants, smartening the electric grid, and some advancements in battery tech before I'd really consider electric cars a viable alternative to internal combustion engines. And let's not forget that the majority of our power plants are coal fired. So really, we're just displacing the pollution and saving ourselves on gas money. The environment really doesn't benefit as things stand right now.
Using any source of energy other than CNG is pissing uphill or spitting into the wind. They all come back at you.
Wrong, Brokenarrow. Electric cars typically do most of their charging at night, when demand is low. We have PLENTY of capacity. And not all power plants are coal-fired. Nuclear, Solar and Hydro all contribute nothing to greenhouse gasses. Even if YOUR power plant is a dirty fossil-fuel plant, it still generates energy more efficiently and cleaner than your car's engine (the smaller it is, the more it pollutes.) Plus, your whole argument is based on some fantasy scenario--there's not enough supply of ev's to switch everyone over right now. BUT, that's the direction we need to head. And as more people do that, the cars will get cheaper and the batteries will last longer.
Even with the rebate I couldn't afford the downpayment.
And this is the problem, DG Moore - these cars are just not affordable for the majority - have heard the batteries alone cost around $3000 - you're going to have to put a padlock on your bonnet!! Seriously... the prices of these cars are going to be the stumbling block - there will be no "second-hand" cars of the electric kind for several years to place them in a price range that will compete with the gas-guzzlers... it will take years, surely, before we see the majority of cars on the road that will be wholly electric.
You said it, think green, and watch your green become their green. Look at the cars the wealthy drive, they ain't electric folks!!!!
Teresa and D.G - As a owner, I hope you know that your comments are part of the reason why I purchased the car (LEAF). There need to be people with the resources to step forward and be first. Remember the first CD players or the first Plasma TV's - they cost a fortune and so only a few were purchased but those early purchasers paved the way for the inexpensive multitude of options you have today. Someone has to go first, this is important enough to me that I'm one of the folks that did.
Check out the cars, drive a few when you can, and when the price and features meet your needs (and I am sure they will some day), I hope you will consider dumping dino juice.
One note that isn't made enough in articles like this is that over half of our foreign trade deficit is for the import of Oil. No amount of drilling in the US will make a significant dent to that amount based on current consumption trends. We have to find alternative transportation sources if we want the USA to not only survive but thrive. Remind conservatives of this each time you can. For more resources see pluginamerica dot org.
OK, Seattle - good post. I see your point absolutely. I am desperate to dump "dino juice" - I am waiting for a small affordable 4-wheel drive that takes the hit on the dreadful roads of the island I live on. I can buy a new gas car of this type for around 16,000 pounds sterling (not sure what that is in dollars) - that is about my spend limit without finance. Hope you're right, Seattle - and I won't have to wait too long...
I small, fuel efficient, four-wheel drive that can take a beating and still be reliable? Check out the Geo Tracker. It's a hub lock 4-wheel drive system, but you'll still get almost 40 to a gallon and have the ground clearence to handle anything a washout could throw you. Just get one built before 2000. That's when Chevy bought them out and the redesign was lower to the ground and heavier.
I drove one for a little while, and there wasn't anything it couldn't handle. In fact, my dad had an easier time getting to his hunting camp in the Tracker than he did in an off-road ready Jeep.
Thanks for the info, MK - At present, I have a 4-wheel Diahatsu Terios in Cyprus. Get about 35 to the gallon. Bit less up the mountain villages. Petrol is going up by the week here - paying around 1.28 euros per litre this week - Cyprus gets its' gas from Saudi - bit cheaper than Libya to Europe and yourselves. I am expecting prices to rise considerably within the next 12 months though, wherever the gas comes from, so would like an electric 4-wheeler around that time. Not expecting anything in my price range, however, for a lot longer than that, which is a shame because on this island at lot of folks are up for one. The manufacturers need to get their fingers out, although I expect in the States you will have a good priced one out on the road much quicker.
I seriously doubt anything electric 4wd will be coming out anytime soon. The jostling and weather conditions that a typical 4wd are subjected to are the exact things that an EV detests operating in. Cold weather, snow and ice, sudden jolts...
I did hear/see that China (Geely?) is on board for a 4x4 SUV. So that wold seem to say that you'll be seeing it before we do.
Really - I'm surprised nothing planned much then. Wait for the Chinese then!!... Thanks for the info anyway.
Well, there are show pieces, like Chrysler putting out an electric Jeep or a hybrid Ram truck. But it was all for show. :'-(
How about a real test and put them through a canadian winter.
As far as being green, when are we going to build the next nuclear power plant(s) to supply the jiuce to all those electric cars.
How many kw-hrs does it take to charge a chevy volt to drive 40 miles?
Another advantage to these cars is the electric power industry has no way to store electricity so many power plants shutdown at night when demand is low. The cycling of these plants greatly increases the maintenance cost and reduces the efficiency (fuel required to start and warm up and then shutdown without generating electricity). Using these cars as a demand for electricity at night could bring down the cost of electricity making the cars even more cost effective. Most of the plants that cycle are gas turbines that use natural gas that is domestically produced and cleaner burning. These cars are a win win win situation. Big oil is the only loser - I guess that's why the govt is not promoting them more.
You are incorrect about electrical storage. Flywheel plants are being constructed (there's already one operation in Mass.) that allow for storage of electricity. They will be used to smooth very short term peak in demand.
Personally, I'm looking at buying an electric motorcycle next year.
Volt uses 10.4 kWh of it's 16 kWh battery to preserve the efficiency of the battery for a longer period of time. It will charge using about 12.25 kWh on a 120V circuit, or about 14.5 kWh on the 240V circuit.
I don't see the savings then. In my area electricity is about 17 cents per kWh.
12.25 kWh * $0.17 * 30 days = $62.475 per month. That's more than I pay for gas a month on my commuter car. That's assuming your numbers are right.
I also wonder on the long term maintenance costs. Lithium-Ion batteries do not last very long, at least in consumer electronics, before their capacity degrades significantly. How much does it cost to replace the batteries in these cars?
Capn-1: You are assuming that you'll drain and fill the battery every day. This is a better way to do the math: 12.25 kWh per 40 miles is 0.306 kWh per mile. Multiply that by $0.17 per kWh to get 5 cents per mile. If gas is $4/gallon, that's electric driving is the equivalent of getting 80 mpg. Does your current commuter car get 80 mpg?
17 cents per kWh is a pretty high rate. The US average is about 11 cents. So most people in the US will get a better deal than you driving electric.
In addition to what you'll save on gas, driving electric means your dollars will be staying in the US supporting local jobs instead of foreign oil suppliers.
Check out the EPA fuel economy sticker some time for the Volt. It breaks everything down based on $3.20 per gallon and $0.11 per kWh. And even using those numbers, they calculated that it costs $0.04 per mile on electric and $0.09 per mile on gasoline. So no matter what miles you drive, it's going to end up being cheaper.
Yeah I'm aware 17 cents is high, believe me, it's double what I use to pay before moving to this hell hole of a state called Taxachusetts.
I see your point though. Still, I bought my car used for $7,000 and have put over 100k miles on it (up to 217k total now). The volt according to this article is over $40,000. I don't even want to know when the 'break even' point is on that difference, even if you used $5/gallon. The leaf is better at $33,000 but no gas backup makes it more risky. A hybrid still seems more economical.
Pricing for the Leaf is higher if you opt to buy the battery. But that's besides the point.
I did the rough math below on the break even point. It's roughly 5 years, if you consider commuting 45 miles (round trip) and light weekend use. For those who live closer to work, the break even points shrinks even further.
If you want to get into a fuel efficient car for a lot less than what is offered on the new market right now buy a 2000-2006 Honda Insight. All aluminum construction Hybrid that runs almost forever. Some folks are approaching 500,000 miles. The manual transmission version gets 81mpg @50mph using very mild hypermiling techniques. If you can find some gasoline without ethanol it will do better than that, but that is another story.
I fully agree with your non-ethanol statement. I've run extensive mileage comparisons between no ethanol and the 10% blend we have here in South Carolina and there is a 3.5% difference in favor of all gasoline vs. the blend.
Everything I've read on the Insight's say they are a really horrible driving experience. I'd rather just pay $18,000 for a Cruze ECO that makes 42 mpg on the hwy and not be punished for getting good mileage....
not gonna happen, Nobama
Electric cars still = boring, boring, boring. Not one of these owners spoke of driving excitement, excitement of ownership, or sheer pleasure of taking out the green vehicles. No, just boring. Until auto manufactures bring some "excitement" into the electric auto. Better looks, drive ability, Mustang/Camaro acceleration, utility, etc. The electric auto will remain an anomaly globally. With aging electric power plant burning coal, oil, what is the option for electricity; nuclear power plants? Wind and solar power is not up to par with power demands. No, make the electric auto "fun to drive" and not an effort to own. Then witness this technology blossom. For now simply "boring" autos to own and drive.
Agreed, and I think part of the barrier to making electric cars fun to drive is the battery technology. If you could make the same size battery in current electric cars hold enough energy to last for 300+ miles, you'd start seeing some better options come down the line. I'm sure if I really WANTED to I could push the Volt and have some fun in it... but the battery wouldn't last long, which is why people don't do it now.
How many "boring" conventional cars are out there? More than you or I could count.
You not looking at the whole picture. Consider how much less maintenance an electric requires. There is no exhaust system, catalytic converter, conventional transmission, liquid cooling system to break. Electrics have far less moving parts and electric motors are very reliable with better torque on the low end.
Electrics can be fun to drive. The Tesla roadster is a good example of one. At full charge it is rated for 200 miles plus. In hard driving conditions, Top Gear estimated a range of 70 miles after testing it on its track. Other high performance gasoline fueled supercars would go the same amount of distance around that track before running out of gas.
I haven't driven a Tesla, but I almost walked past one on the sidewalk and it stopped me in my tracks. Hotter looking than a new Lotus, and just about the same dimensions. I'd love to drive one.
MikeyMike,
Are you retarded? A Tesla IS a Lotus Elise with the gas drivetrain removed and batteries and electric motors added by Tesla.
You just compared two cars that are EXACTLY THE SAME on the exterior, and said one is hotter and almost the same size. ROFL
Rob,
No, apparently I am not retarded, thank you very much, I was just unaware that they are in fact the same body. Thanks for the info. I've never stood right next to the new Lotus. I've only seen them driving by from a distance and recognized, correctly that they are indeed very similar. As far as EXACTLY THE SAME, I believe there might be some slight differences in the air intake configuration, as in, the Tesla's is covered over with a nifty carbon fiber shield, which contributes to what I called it's "hotter" look, and like I said, "just about the same dimensions". There's no need for you to be rude about it.
Dennis - How much do one of these cars cost?
I couldn't get to and from work in one of the electric cars, the range is too short and I am pretty certain they won't like the cold, the hills, and the snow much.
As for me, Price is the biggest detractor. 33,000? 40,000+ ? for a car I can't drive 500+ miles at a shot? Ya gotta be kidding!!! lower that to about 16,000 an then you have my attention. Also agree that they need to be "sexier". I agree that big oil is trying to squash this industry.
What comparably sized and powered gas-engine cars can you drive 500+ miles at a shot?
I think I get the point you're trying to make, which is that there isn't any infrastructure to "refill the tank" as it were, the Leaf doesn't come with a 500 mile long extension cord. But the Volt will still run in gas-only mode at 37mpg average. So no charge stations really required there.
mK, major point is the prohiibitive price... I make about 50,000 a year, no way i can pay that much for a car...
Agreed, sticker shock is pretty hard to overcome. But you could consider it this way; the difference in loan payments between the Volt and a $20,000 gas powered car is about the same as (if not less than)the amount you would save in driving the Volt instead.
But again, it's a matter of sticker shock and early-adopter pricing. Can't fault you on that one.
When are the electric car owners going to take their family to YellowStone National park?
Just plug the car into a power socket that "hot" because of coal/oil fired power plants. Ironey eh?
Just harvest our own natural resources and the mideast problems will slowly go away. You "bean" counters can count the savings in $$$ to us poor consumers that will continue to purchase SUVs for the next 100 years.
Reality is a scary place when faced with real ground truth data.
Hopefully these electric experiences will not be too expensive in the future. We tax payers can't afford them!
Buy electric not to go green. Buy them to stop lining the pockets of Big Oil and the oil sheiks of the Saudi Arabia.
I would rather use a vehicle that puts money into the pockets of coal miners here in America given a choice.
Apartment/condo dwellers, many who live in big cities and could benefit the most from saving on fuel expenses in stop-and-go commutes by owning an all-electric car, are going to be left behind simply because they don't have the luxury of having a garage or place to park their car on their own property to "plug-in". Until penny-pinching backwards-thinking landlords/owner/realty companies (who would rather evict or ignore tenant issues than deal with them) update their thinking, millions of potential customers are left out of this revolution. Try running an extension cord from your 5th floor unit down to your car in the parking lot and see how long that lasts! Hybrids come in handy there, but still a half-measure for one trying to go greener. The housing credit crisis leaves landlords with the upper hand too; they don't have to sweeten their deals.
The Volt which costs $40,000 before tax breaks. (Read: before all the other taxpayers subsidize your purchase).
You've been paying for Prius purchases for years, and the Leaf qualifies for the same credits. Where's your anger towards any of them?
Oil gets a ton of subsidies too. At least subsidizing people to get off of Foreign Oil is good for the security of the country.
The 8000 subsidy is NOTHING compared to subsidies handed out to small businesses for gas guzzling trucks and SUVs. They could qualify from 25 to 100 THOUSAND per vehicle. Sometimes the tax break is MORE THAN WHAT THE VEHICLE WAS WORTH.
I would rather subsidize incentives to REDUCE dependence on oil, not INCREASE it
Seems everyone forgets about the Tesla Coup...which is an all battery car and gets approx 200 - 250 miles per charge. While this car is priced out of most people's price range, the soon to be released Sedan is rated for 160, 200, and 230 miles per charge depending on the configuration purchased, and is expected to be priced somewhere between the Leaf and $50k before tax breaks.
When done right, Battery power can get you much more mileage....but the press doesn't seem interested in discussing the Tesla cars or technology. Makes you wonder why.
After looking at the prices for the Leaf and the Volt, I bought a Honda Insight Hybrid - 40-49mpg - a very decent machine for the price.
Now, just remember that if you drive outside the area that supplies electric outlets to charge your magic car, you may end up using more gas to get home than you have planned. Also, has anyone tested these cars on steep mountain roads, in snow, on gravel and mud, where driving slower is necessary?
Here's a full Road Test from Edmund's Insideline:
http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/2011-chevrolet-volt-full-test-and-video.html
The Volt has a "Mountain" mode, which (if you turn it on a few miles before a long grade) will run the gas engine to build up charge for a steady climb at 70mph.
I love the whole idea of having a primary and a road trip car. Talk about excess. You have to pay more for the electric of hybrid and it will take years to recoup that extra cost and then you have to buy another gas car if you want to go on a road trip. Add that to the time it will take to recoup the extra you are spending and you just wound up with a car that has to rust to dust before you make up the difference....oh yeah, and before that happens you will need to replace that battery, how much is that going to cost again?
Firstly, the article says he keeps his van for road trips.
Also, the batteries will run you about $8,000 by recent estimates and are warrantied for 8 years.
Considering he could probabaly only get a $5,000 trade-in value, let's go ahead and roll that into the recoup cost math. The Volt will cost you around $35,000 after tax rebates and options. Opting to trade-in the van on a brand new vehicle (comparably comfortable) capable of road trips will run you about $32,000 after options (on the low end). Removeing the trade-in value, we come up with a price differential of $8,000.
Now for gas savings... The minivan gets 28 highway, 19 city, so average 22 mpg. That's plenty lower than the Volt (60mpge / 37mpg gas-only mode). So here we go.
We'll go ahead and assume a commute only, since we'll be using a minivan for raod trips either way. The tricky part first, the Volt at 45 miles a day will get 36kWh/100 miles for the first 35 miles and 37 mpg for the remaining 10. @ $4.50 a gallon in gas and $0.14 per kWh electricity, that amounts to around $450 in electricity and $300 in gas. The minivan gets 22mpg average so, commuting only results in approximately $2300 in gas per year. A difference of over $1500. Remove the cost of insurance on a 7 year old minivan and we can pretty much say that the cost difference is easily over $1250.
Then to recoup the difference, you will need to keep the car for 6 and a half years. And that's not counting the luxury of having a second vehicle, nor the cost of short weekend drives. Considering all that, the recoup cost is closer to 5 years.
Replacing the battery on the Leaf probably wouldn't be any more expensive than replacing the engine and transmission on a car. The Leaf has neither of those. Electric motors tend to be more reliable because they have much fewer moving parts. As long as they remain sealed, they can last a long time.
Consider the savings on maintenance and repair. No exhaust system to maintain, no conventional motor oil changes, no potential major engine problems like blown head gaskets, brakes would probably last longer because of the built in traction motors that give regenerative braking.
As a matter of fact, one of GM's concerns with the EV-1 was that they required so little maintenance. GM traditionally makes a lot of money off repair and service. The EV-1 undercut that source of revenue.
Maybe (wishful thinking) in 5-10 years time, when these batteries are due to be replaced, they will even have smaller, lighter compatible battery packs that will get you farther down the road.
This car is great, I couldn't be happier driving it. I've had it about a month and a half and havn't had to stop and get gas. The technology and acceleration is impressive. Feels like your driving a sports car. I'm getting even farther than it says I'l get. With a full charge it says I have a EV range of 47 miles. If I stay on side streets, or I'm stuck in rush hour traffic, I can get around 55 miles on battery alone. I've only had to use gas twice, and those were trips over 2 hours. The inside is really cool and I get approached by people all the time asking about it and wanting to take a look. I have 0 complaints about this car, except maybe the backseats don't have a ton of legroom.
I would love to have an EV, but I would be afraid that in Minnesota that I would not see new the milage as some in FL or NC. And that price tag is crazy, Dang oil companies are making it difficult for people to get off there product. I'm glad I will not be around when the issue of crude oil REALLY running out happens, it's just a matter of time before the world uses it up, I can see $20+/gal when that happens, thats assuming we survive the oil wars. I know that sounds so pesimistic, but oil is a finite resource and the oil companies are doing everything to prevent there losses.
For the Ford EV convert; i dont care what you choose as long as it helps to reduce our foreign oil bill. Whether you chose to walk, ride the bus or carpool, i am with you 100%. the Leaf works for me. i have 3600 miles on it and I dont regret a single penny of the purchase. But if you dont think you will save enough on gas, then do it for other reasons.
Thinking about getting a Leaf to save money and you are not sure its "worth" the risk? Get a Leaf to save America then!! When you buy gas made from foreign oil, most of that money leaves the country never to return. We must then borrow that dollar, most likely from another foreign country. Our foreign oil bill this year will approach half a Trillion dollars. We can no longer afford to continue on this path. The interest from the money we are borrowing is eroding the financial foundation of this country and is indirectly related to high housing costs, transfer of corporate taxes to another country, the inability to pay the government or to fund vital social services.
Why does a Leaf help to alleviate these problems? Every dollar I spend on electricity goes to an American company who pays American workers who spend their paychecks on American services and pay American taxes. Eventually that dollar will return to me in my paycheck so I can spend it again, over and over and over. This dollar does not have to be borrowed because it was EARNED!!
We as a country must move away from borrowing money and going back to earning money. We need to reduce corporate taxes so companies will come back and pay a FAIR share instead of the highest corporate tax in the civilized world. We do that by reducing our debt load by reducing our foreign oil bill.
Being able to restrict our usage to domestic oil only requires a HUGE movement to mass transit, car pooling and Electric Vehicles. Most find the first two to be very inconvenient. I am here to tell you that for most of you, the Nissan Leaf offers a "no compromise" transportation solution. Now if one of the first two options is better for you, I am behind you 100%!!. I am not a salesman. I am an American.
I have been touting EVs for years. drove a Zenn NEV daily for 3 years. THAT car was a huge compromise. the Leaf is not. if you have 2 car needs and either of you can do with less than 50 miles a day, this car will last you decades. the above quote is just part of the information I provide when displaying my EV at various shows, exhibits, etc. most people want to know the $$. so I also tell them that my Prius that I just paid $39 for gas, i could have gone the same distance in my Leaf for $14 of electricity. But that tells so very little of the real story. It isnt about cars or the price of gas. Its about the financial survival of this country!!
You have laid out some good points, Dave, for going EV - and anything that can be done to help our respective country's economies across the Pond is one excellent reason when you look at what is spent on gas, and how it is all funded by our economies - and that is not going to improve in the future. When pump prices reach critical mass, and people start to struggle to meet their fuel bills, then we may see a mind-set change towards EVs and you will no longer have to struggle to put a case for them. Anyway, when it comes to getting from A to B, one's ego as to the style of car one drives is irrelevant - it will boil down to what you can afford just to stay on the road and will care little as to what it looks like...
What's wrong with some of you people, the Volt is a very good looking car.
If we all get these EV cars, won't we still be using as much if not more fossil fuel at the electric company plants to charge them all?
No, we won't. It is FAR more efficient to have 1 large power plant charge thousands of cars than to have an engine in each of the cars.
Solar, wind, etc., can be used charge these cars as well.
Internal Combustion Engines are dreadfully inefficient at converting chemical ignition into forward motion. Some estimates state that less than 50% of the potential energy is actually captured and converted. So there will be considerably less burning of fossil fuels. Sure there will be an increase at the electric companies, but it is essentially "cleaner" and more efficient.
Consider this. Take a bicycle tire off your bike and give it a spin, then slow it down, but don't stop it, then after a few seconds speed it up again. Do this for a minute. Then, using the same tire, spin the tire up, then just keep spining it to maintain it's speed. Which one was harder on your arm? Car engines will be like speeding up and slowing down the tire over and over. Power plant generators are able to spin themselves up and then just keep adding fuel to stay wound up. Well, moreso than a car engine.
There are diesels sold in Europe that get over 60 mpg. Why are they not allowed here - their greenhouse emissions are less than half the average US car and nations with greener laws than us allow them?
The Volt is revolutionary, when it was announced January 2007 there was so much excitement that GM had to put up a web site for all the questions and people expressing interest in buying the car.
I would love to drive an all electric vehicle, but being a Realtor that drives clients around looking at properties I can log well over 100 miles per day. A hybrid is definitely in my future though. I have 20 MPG vehicle now and I am still spending over $500 a month in fuel.