Mo' Joe: Area 51 is the largest government-controlled land parcel in the U.S., but the government still denies its existence. Author Annie Jacobsen joins Morning Joe to discuss her new book, "Area 51."
Investigative journalist Annie Jacobsen's new book, "Area 51," suggests that the Soviets stirred up the Roswell UFO incident in 1947 by sending flying disks into New Mexico with child-size aviators on board, as a warning that they could spark a UFO panic if they wanted to.
But will that explanation fly?
Jacobsen's revelation is based on an account from just one unnamed source. This source said he was an engineer with the company EG&G at Area 51, the hush-hush military research site in Nevada. He told Jacobsen that he studied the remnants of the Roswell crash in 1951, along with four other EG&G engineers.
There are no documents to confirm the account — because, Jacobsen says, this was one of the most tightly held secrets of the Cold War. Even though that confirmation is lacking, Jacobsen says she stands by her source's amazing account. "He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling me," she told me, "but it was a matter of conscience for him."

Michael Hiller
Annie Jacobsen is the author of "Area 51."
Jacobsen's source recounted what he says he saw, as well as what he was told and what he surmised based on that information. Here's the scenario presented in "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base," based on the source's account:
- After World War II, the Soviets capitalized on the work being done on stealthy flying-wing aircraft by a group of Nazi German engineers headed by two brothers, Walter and Reimar Horten. They developed disk-shaped flying machines that could sporadically evade radar detection. The U.S. military perfected such technology at Area 51 over the decades that followed to produce planes such as the F-117 stealth attack aircraft.
- Soviet leaders were spooked by the U.S. military's use of the atom bomb to bring the war to a quick close. They were a couple of years away from developing their own atomic weapons, based on secrets stolen from the U.S. bomb effort. The Roswell incident was aimed at warning the Truman administration that the Soviets could create a UFO hoax, stirring up fears similar to those that were sparked inadvertently by the fictional "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast in 1938.
- Jacobsen's source believes that the Soviets dispatched flying-disk drone aircraft from a mothership flying near Alaska. Intermittent radar signals were picked up by U.S. installations, but the disks were nevertheless able to enter U.S. airspace and come down near Roswell, N.M.
- "Child-size aviators" were aboard the disks: humans, seemingly about 13 years old, who may have been surgically or biologically altered to give them enlarged heads and eyes. Jacobsen quotes her source as saying he was told that the alien look-alikes were the result of experiments conducted by Nazi mad scientist Josef Mengele. The bodies were recovered from the wreckage, and two of them were alive but comatose.
- The wreckage and the bodies were transported from New Mexico to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for study, then transferred again to Area 51 in Nevada. This is where Jacobsen's source saw them in 1951. The source is quoted as saying he saw Russian writing stamped on a ring that went around the inside of the aircraft, and that he saw the child-size bodies on a life support system.
- When Jacobsen asked why President Harry Truman didn't report all this in 1947, she said the source replied, "Because we were doing the same thing." She notes in the book that the Atomic Energy Commission and the Defense Department carried out human experiments on the effects of radiation, and suggests that the hundreds of experiments revealed in 1995 were just the tip of the iceberg. "I believe that a lot of what the Atomic Energy Commission did was reckless and dangerous," she told me.
This latest explanation runs counter to the scenarios put forward by the federal government — first, that the Roswell wreckage came from a weather balloon, and then that it was debris from a crash-test dummy drop as well as a balloon-borne experiment to monitor nuclear blasts. It also runs counter to the long-held claims by UFO activists that the crash actually represented a covered-up visitation by extraterrestrials.
Drawing fire from both sides
As such, Jacobsen's Roswell account is taking fire from UFO skeptics as well as those who give the alien scenario more credence. In a novel twist, Clifford Clift of the Mutual UFO Network told the Santa Fe New Mexican that the linkage to German aerospace technology was too tenuous to be believed.

Little, Brown & Co. / Hachette
"Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base" delves into decades' worth of hush-hush programs.
"After researching the claim, I found little truth in this theory," he said. "It is a stretch. One of my concerns is if they wanted to create panic, why in New Mexico and not in New York where there are more people to panic? I would suggest it is another conspiracy theory, and heavens, MUFON knows about conspiracy theories. They do sell books."
Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center said he also was skeptical about Jacobsen's account, although he stressed that he hasn't yet read the entire book.
"People have been studying the Roswell case for decades now," he told the New Mexican. "They've got deathbed testimony. They've got testimony from military officers who were involved, eyewitnesses. I think I'll go with the latter, rather than this young lady who penned this new book."
Investigator Kal Korff — who took aim at the alien claims in his 1997 book, "Roswell UFO Crash" — said he wasn't buying the "Area 51" story either. "Of all the crazy ideas as to what is behind Roswell, this is one of the most extreme out there," he told me in an email.
Beyond the substance of the story, there's the issue of basing such a dramatic story on one person's account. "I would never report anything related to UFOs based on only one unnamed source!" journalist Leslie Kean, the author of "UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record," wrote in a Facebook update.
Jacobsen told me that getting the story out of even one of the five engineers who were involved in the Area 51 follow-up to the Roswell incident was a months-long job.
"What's important to understand is that all of the top five EG&G engineers had top secret clearances and also Q clearances. ... So you're dealing with the most upper-echelon clearances you could possibly have within the federal government, in the Atomic Energy Commission. Your 'need-to-know' is so strict that you only know what you know. ... To suggest that the five engineers could stand around and discuss, 'Hey, what do you think is,' is a bit naive," she said. "It's 'take this craft apart and put it back together ... take these bodies and move them over here.' And that is about the extent of it."
It's also important to understand that there's a lot more to "Area 51" than Roswell. The Roswell tale, which takes up about 30 pages of the 544-page book, is the only one that depends on a single unnamed source, Jacobsen said. Most of the book focuses on the stories behind formerly secret programs ranging from nuclear bomb tests to the development of the U-2 and A-12 Oxcart spy planes. To this day, military officials avoid referring to Area 51 by that name.
The gorilla-mask scenario
So if the Roswell UFO wasn't an alien (or Soviet) intruder, and if you don't buy the official explanation that it was a balloon experiment, what else might it have been? One of the alternate explanations is that the "UFO" was indeed a flying disk, but that it was a U.S. rather than a Soviet experimental craft. In this scenario, the alien-looking bodies might have been dummies designed to create a preposterous cover story.
Jacobsen herself refers to a similar disinformation strategy that the Air Force used in 1942, when the first jet aircraft were being developed at California's Muroc dry lake bed. She said one of the test pilots for the Bell XP-59A jet plane, Jack Woolams, put on a gorilla mask when he went on a flight — just in case other pilots training on different planes came flying nearby to take a look.
YouTube video provides views of the German-built Horten Ho 229 flying wing. Does flying-wing technology explain the "flying disk" supposedly involved in the Roswell UFO incident?
"Instead of seeing Woolams, the pilot saw a gorilla flying an airplane — an airplane that had no propeller," Jacobsen wrote. "The stunned pilot landed and went straight to the local bar and ordered a stiff drink. He told the other pilots what he'd definitely seen with his own eyes. His colleagues told him he was drunk, that he was an embarrassment, that he should go home."
Thus was the secret of the Bell XP-59A preserved, even from the other fliers at the Muroc base (now known as Edwards Air Force Base).
Were the Roswell aliens actually dummies, the equivalent of pilots wearing gorilla masks? Or is Jacobsen's source correct? Is the truth more monstrous than people thought? Even though the eyewitnesses are dying off, Jacobsen believes the real story may be contained within the hundreds of millions of documents about "black" projects that are still said to be classified.
She notes that all of the sources she consulted while researching "Area 51" told her they knew much more than they were telling. "Everyone always ends with, 'Well, Annie, I've actually told you 5 percent of what I know,'" Jacobsen said.
Is the truth out there? Or will it remain mired in reams upon reams of conjecture and disinformation? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.
More about UFOs:
- UFO reports come from Russia ... right on time
- Why we love to fear E.T.
- Jerusalem videos stir UFO buzz
- Year of the UFO? Let's get real
- Still more from Cosmic Log's UFO files
- Search for UFOs on msnbc.com
You can connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page or following @b0yle on Twitter. Also, give a look to "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.


Are the Soviets responsible for the Rosswell UFO. Yeah they were, and they even so far as to pay little green men from Mars, who came down here on those flying saucers eating Green Cheese from the moon.
What a load of Bull Sh it!
Everybody seems to have their two cents worth on Roswell and Area 51, so here's my four cents . . .
http://ufopartisan.blogspot.com/2010/08/area-51-founders-ufo-sightings.html
http://ufopartisan.blogspot.com/2010/08/roswell-d-day-and-titanium-industry.html
The notion that the Roswell incident was a Soviet scare tactic involving Mengele-inspired human genetic experiments does not just strain credulity, it bursts it.
That a Horton 229 was involved is not, in and of itself, entirely implausible to me. The Ho 229 was, I believe, fairly far along in development, and flyable, by the end of the war, but, like their prototype jet fighters, not far along enough to be useable in combat. As I understand it, the United States did recover the technology and plans.
The description Arnold provided of what he saw does roughly match the Ho 229.
Given the above, I am in fact willing to consider the possibility that what crashed in Roswell was an experimental 229, but American-made, not part of a Soviet plot.
All of this is purely speculative, of course. But I find claims that the only alternative is a genuine extraterrestrial craft even more bizarre.
By "Arnold," I mean of course Kenneth Arnold, regarding his report in June of 1947 of a squadron of 9 objects that resembled pie plates each with a semicircular or arc-like portion cut from its trailing edge. This is a reasonable rough description of a flying wing aircraft.
Are we to really believe the Soviets would go through all that trouble and risk the lives of humans, just to send us a warning? A telegram would have been more believable.
WOW! All I can say is, 'Cuckoo for Coco Puffs'!
The Soviets want us to desist from an arms race. So they concoct up a bizarre plan to fabricate an alien flyover or landing (in the remote desert Southwest of all places) so that the aliens will scare us into being pacifists. In the process, the resulting UFO phenomenon scares the bejeezus out of a generation of Americans, who then spend an unprecedented amount of national wealth building up the defense establishment and testing ever larger and more advanced nuclear weapons with a variety of indefinsible delivery mechanisms.
Makes sense.
Today we've had:
And this is the kind of drivel MSNBC puts on the front page? As a resident of one of the towns that stands to be hit by this horrible weather tonight, I'm than a little frustrated that something that reads akin to AM radio hack job makes top billing before the beleaguered people in my part of the nation.
Well, it's just a little corner of the front page, for a little while. I wouldn't call it top billing by any stretch of the imagination. Lots and lots of attention is being devoted to the tornadoes, as it should be.
My sources tell me the CFR and the Bilderbergs were behind the Roswell crash, and they're gonna do it again, but except this time a lot bigger and with more fire. Don't believe the lies of what people tell you and what you hear on TV.
i think it is a real possibility that the "ufo" wasn't russian but american! we were experimenting as well and it would explain why the incident happened in new mexico, and not in a place like new york,it also would explain why all the secrecy, it would have been and it still would be an embarassment to say the least.
Bull. It wasn't the government, it was the folks who really control the government, the fat cats and their cronies. There's always money to be made off other people gettin scared. That's all their about.
Oh My God!!! Some people will do anything to make a buck, and other's will follow the lead to make their own slice of the pie. Of course it must have been the Soviets. Anybody from earth is better than admitting that we human s are not the most intelligent life form in the universe.
This story and book right on the heels of the new rapture. Nice timing!
It's Obama's fault, well that's what my buddy's at Tea Bag Headquarters tell me. Wow I'm starting to sound like a liberal. (I'm really a right leaning Independent) ! I may not like him but everthing can not be his fault.
Its part of Obama's secret Muslim Soshulist Extraterrestrial plot!
what really happened... US was doing our first nuclear bomb testings about 100 miles west of rosewell NM... All air traffic had been vacated from the area and nothing was hitting on radar before they would give a clear to detinate the nuke... Aliens want to know WTF we are doing so they do fly bys with their space craft that are undetectable by radar... We detinate the nuke... The EMP hits the Alien space craft and disables all electrical functions. The space craft crashes in a farm outside of roswell NM about 100 miles away from the bomb detination site. Millitary vehicals and personel come and take the wreckage away and publish a lame cover story. 6 months later the birth of the transistor. 6 months is the time it takes to reverse engineer something you know nothing about. And boom all of are modern technology spawns from that point in time.
No love for Julius Lilienfeld, who patented the first transistor in 1925? Or Frank Whittle or Pabst Von Ohain, who had the first running jet engines before WW2 even started? You are giving the aliens too much credit. Humans are pretty creative, too.
vacuum tube transistors dont count... cause we dont use them in any of our modern technology. 1947 is first PN junction transistor... Yes humans had invented a switch in 1925, but it was purly mechanical and not electrical. NPN transistor is 1947 and the jump from a mechanical switch to a purly electrical switch takes years of development... Today the biggest silicon wayfer is 20inch in diamater. In 1947 there was no such thing as a silicon wayfer, so it would be impossible to have the birth of the transistor be anytime before then, and we didnt have the technology to dope silicon at that time either.... white LEDs are only a few years old and its been over 50 years since the discovery of the PN junction.... Humans arnt that smart.... Engineering and development takes millions of dollars and hours.... You cant go from vacuum tube transistor to PN junction transistor unless you reverse engineered some alien technology in 1947. NASA just developed a solar sail. It is made up of PN junctions to create photovoltics so the suns photon energy can be converted into electrical energy. Now we know how to travel through space without rocket fuel. The properties of the solar sail are such that when IR light of a certain spectrum makes the sail completely transparent (invisible). Other wave lenghts of light cause the sail to light up with a bright white glow. The alien space craft we recovered in roswell NM was mostlikely covered in a thin layer of the same PN junction matterial NASA makes their solar sail out of, and its taken them over 50 years of reverse engineering to finally discover how you travel through space without burning fuel.
She is lying that is how Charlie Sheen got here.
LOL, loved that one !! A 5 Star Award !
Hey Sirlafalot, what are you? A GS 15 or SES pay grade?
Just wondering if you're a real jokester or a government flunkie stirring the pot.
if the "creatures" inside the "ufo" were recovered alive and put on life support ,that tells you between the lines that they were in fact terrestrials! how would you know to put extraterrestrials with all kinds of different organs on earth life support?
they were kids or very young men who were experimented on with radiation possibly by us scientists or ex nazis, thats why the "pilots" were small and huge heads and bugged eyes , they got like that from radiation. we were doing those kind of experiments.only the us government could have done something like that.nobody else.
But how did they make the saucers fly? Just having irradiated mutants as pilots doesn't mean you can implement the kind of technology required for a true flying saucer. No, there's more to this story that they're not telling us
they know how to do it, they have the technology,only thing they can't go as fast as ufo's are supposed to. i think everything points to a usa planned and executed mission. the world needed some shock therapy after that tragic war where practically every family had some dead. i think the shock therapy worked,wouldn't you say? 99% made in usa rockwell incident,1% e.t.
"small and huge heads and bugged eyes , they got like that from radiation"
Will that now happen to the people over in Japan ??
put some in care of a mad scientist and see if it won't happen! :)
no, japanese people won't get like that,but sometime in the future some of them will get sick,unfortunately.
turiddhu,,,Sorry for the joke.
And unfortunately I do feel that you are correct on some of the people in Japan will get sick down the road as low dose radiation does take some time to show it's effects. And you know their government will keep that very quite.
i traveled to europe during the chernobyl crisis ,the radiation cloud spread to where i was at the time ,luckily i didn't get any problems,probably i wasn't there long enough. i feel sorry for those people in japan that have to be there day after day.
catastrophy for them ,a warning for us.
Just trying to sell her book.
Bingo.
Proof that the Soviets back then DID have their head sizes changed with the use of genetics. COMMUNISM
How'd that work for ya.
it couldn't have been the soviets,not a chance! not even a communist is dumb enough to put russian writing on his own secret space vehicle on a secret mission!!!
That was the best part I forget who pointed it out first. They can mutate kids into radioactive space alien pilots in an effort to deceive the US..... but write russian on the ship.
And for the adventurous, the long stretch of road past area 51 is called The Extraterrestrial Highway, and is accessisble from Ne 15 or 95.
bravo sierra. what a load of non-sense !
Anythng for a Joke. The Soviets weren't smart enough to come up with this idea, and we were to stupid in trying to cover it up.
My guvment. The Newnited States of Merica said it was a weather bloom and by golly and jumpin gewhillikers, I believe em. Heck fire ya'll, we all know our guvment wouldn't not tell no fib.
I don't know what to believe about Roswell, but one thing I am sure of, there's NO way that the military could keep a secret for that long a time. If there had indeed been aliens on space ships the truth would have come out long before now. There are many retired or otherwise discharged military from that time and place that would love to tell all they know, if they knew anything. There is no treason involved, if an alien landed on earth it is something we all should know. It's actually not a military matter. It's more political, there was no military threat.
The late astronaut Gordon Cooper disagreed with you concerning the government's ability to keep a secret. To learn for yourself just how long the government can keep even a mundane secret, enter operation tiger in your search engine. And yes, if the government is determined, it is MORE than able to keep a secret.
The government doesn't have to keep secrets, they only have to hand out 50 different scenarios to lose the scent of what the real story is. Bottomline, whether this is true or not, we'll never know. You can still present the facts to 100 people and a majority of them are going to come away with different facts. Roswell, like many things of curiosity, will forever live in conjecture and conspiracy and then there's those who really want aliens to be fact and not fiction.
This person story is BS if this un named soure worked at the site they would not tell
about it. Plus a great deal of test site workers during this era and sixties have sadly passed
due cancer.