Mo' Joe: Area 51 is the largest government-controlled land parcel in the U.S., but the government still denies its existence. Author Annie Jacobsen joins Morning Joe to discuss her new book, "Area 51."
Investigative journalist Annie Jacobsen's new book, "Area 51," suggests that the Soviets stirred up the Roswell UFO incident in 1947 by sending flying disks into New Mexico with child-size aviators on board, as a warning that they could spark a UFO panic if they wanted to.
But will that explanation fly?
Jacobsen's revelation is based on an account from just one unnamed source. This source said he was an engineer with the company EG&G at Area 51, the hush-hush military research site in Nevada. He told Jacobsen that he studied the remnants of the Roswell crash in 1951, along with four other EG&G engineers.
There are no documents to confirm the account — because, Jacobsen says, this was one of the most tightly held secrets of the Cold War. Even though that confirmation is lacking, Jacobsen says she stands by her source's amazing account. "He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling me," she told me, "but it was a matter of conscience for him."

Michael Hiller
Annie Jacobsen is the author of "Area 51."
Jacobsen's source recounted what he says he saw, as well as what he was told and what he surmised based on that information. Here's the scenario presented in "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base," based on the source's account:
- After World War II, the Soviets capitalized on the work being done on stealthy flying-wing aircraft by a group of Nazi German engineers headed by two brothers, Walter and Reimar Horten. They developed disk-shaped flying machines that could sporadically evade radar detection. The U.S. military perfected such technology at Area 51 over the decades that followed to produce planes such as the F-117 stealth attack aircraft.
- Soviet leaders were spooked by the U.S. military's use of the atom bomb to bring the war to a quick close. They were a couple of years away from developing their own atomic weapons, based on secrets stolen from the U.S. bomb effort. The Roswell incident was aimed at warning the Truman administration that the Soviets could create a UFO hoax, stirring up fears similar to those that were sparked inadvertently by the fictional "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast in 1938.
- Jacobsen's source believes that the Soviets dispatched flying-disk drone aircraft from a mothership flying near Alaska. Intermittent radar signals were picked up by U.S. installations, but the disks were nevertheless able to enter U.S. airspace and come down near Roswell, N.M.
- "Child-size aviators" were aboard the disks: humans, seemingly about 13 years old, who may have been surgically or biologically altered to give them enlarged heads and eyes. Jacobsen quotes her source as saying he was told that the alien look-alikes were the result of experiments conducted by Nazi mad scientist Josef Mengele. The bodies were recovered from the wreckage, and two of them were alive but comatose.
- The wreckage and the bodies were transported from New Mexico to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio for study, then transferred again to Area 51 in Nevada. This is where Jacobsen's source saw them in 1951. The source is quoted as saying he saw Russian writing stamped on a ring that went around the inside of the aircraft, and that he saw the child-size bodies on a life support system.
- When Jacobsen asked why President Harry Truman didn't report all this in 1947, she said the source replied, "Because we were doing the same thing." She notes in the book that the Atomic Energy Commission and the Defense Department carried out human experiments on the effects of radiation, and suggests that the hundreds of experiments revealed in 1995 were just the tip of the iceberg. "I believe that a lot of what the Atomic Energy Commission did was reckless and dangerous," she told me.
This latest explanation runs counter to the scenarios put forward by the federal government — first, that the Roswell wreckage came from a weather balloon, and then that it was debris from a crash-test dummy drop as well as a balloon-borne experiment to monitor nuclear blasts. It also runs counter to the long-held claims by UFO activists that the crash actually represented a covered-up visitation by extraterrestrials.
Drawing fire from both sides
As such, Jacobsen's Roswell account is taking fire from UFO skeptics as well as those who give the alien scenario more credence. In a novel twist, Clifford Clift of the Mutual UFO Network told the Santa Fe New Mexican that the linkage to German aerospace technology was too tenuous to be believed.

Little, Brown & Co. / Hachette
"Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base" delves into decades' worth of hush-hush programs.
"After researching the claim, I found little truth in this theory," he said. "It is a stretch. One of my concerns is if they wanted to create panic, why in New Mexico and not in New York where there are more people to panic? I would suggest it is another conspiracy theory, and heavens, MUFON knows about conspiracy theories. They do sell books."
Peter Davenport of the National UFO Reporting Center said he also was skeptical about Jacobsen's account, although he stressed that he hasn't yet read the entire book.
"People have been studying the Roswell case for decades now," he told the New Mexican. "They've got deathbed testimony. They've got testimony from military officers who were involved, eyewitnesses. I think I'll go with the latter, rather than this young lady who penned this new book."
Investigator Kal Korff — who took aim at the alien claims in his 1997 book, "Roswell UFO Crash" — said he wasn't buying the "Area 51" story either. "Of all the crazy ideas as to what is behind Roswell, this is one of the most extreme out there," he told me in an email.
Beyond the substance of the story, there's the issue of basing such a dramatic story on one person's account. "I would never report anything related to UFOs based on only one unnamed source!" journalist Leslie Kean, the author of "UFOs: Generals, Pilots and Government Officials Go on the Record," wrote in a Facebook update.
Jacobsen told me that getting the story out of even one of the five engineers who were involved in the Area 51 follow-up to the Roswell incident was a months-long job.
"What's important to understand is that all of the top five EG&G engineers had top secret clearances and also Q clearances. ... So you're dealing with the most upper-echelon clearances you could possibly have within the federal government, in the Atomic Energy Commission. Your 'need-to-know' is so strict that you only know what you know. ... To suggest that the five engineers could stand around and discuss, 'Hey, what do you think is,' is a bit naive," she said. "It's 'take this craft apart and put it back together ... take these bodies and move them over here.' And that is about the extent of it."
It's also important to understand that there's a lot more to "Area 51" than Roswell. The Roswell tale, which takes up about 30 pages of the 544-page book, is the only one that depends on a single unnamed source, Jacobsen said. Most of the book focuses on the stories behind formerly secret programs ranging from nuclear bomb tests to the development of the U-2 and A-12 Oxcart spy planes. To this day, military officials avoid referring to Area 51 by that name.
The gorilla-mask scenario
So if the Roswell UFO wasn't an alien (or Soviet) intruder, and if you don't buy the official explanation that it was a balloon experiment, what else might it have been? One of the alternate explanations is that the "UFO" was indeed a flying disk, but that it was a U.S. rather than a Soviet experimental craft. In this scenario, the alien-looking bodies might have been dummies designed to create a preposterous cover story.
Jacobsen herself refers to a similar disinformation strategy that the Air Force used in 1942, when the first jet aircraft were being developed at California's Muroc dry lake bed. She said one of the test pilots for the Bell XP-59A jet plane, Jack Woolams, put on a gorilla mask when he went on a flight — just in case other pilots training on different planes came flying nearby to take a look.
YouTube video provides views of the German-built Horten Ho 229 flying wing. Does flying-wing technology explain the "flying disk" supposedly involved in the Roswell UFO incident?
"Instead of seeing Woolams, the pilot saw a gorilla flying an airplane — an airplane that had no propeller," Jacobsen wrote. "The stunned pilot landed and went straight to the local bar and ordered a stiff drink. He told the other pilots what he'd definitely seen with his own eyes. His colleagues told him he was drunk, that he was an embarrassment, that he should go home."
Thus was the secret of the Bell XP-59A preserved, even from the other fliers at the Muroc base (now known as Edwards Air Force Base).
Were the Roswell aliens actually dummies, the equivalent of pilots wearing gorilla masks? Or is Jacobsen's source correct? Is the truth more monstrous than people thought? Even though the eyewitnesses are dying off, Jacobsen believes the real story may be contained within the hundreds of millions of documents about "black" projects that are still said to be classified.
She notes that all of the sources she consulted while researching "Area 51" told her they knew much more than they were telling. "Everyone always ends with, 'Well, Annie, I've actually told you 5 percent of what I know,'" Jacobsen said.
Is the truth out there? Or will it remain mired in reams upon reams of conjecture and disinformation? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.
More about UFOs:
- UFO reports come from Russia ... right on time
- Why we love to fear E.T.
- Jerusalem videos stir UFO buzz
- Year of the UFO? Let's get real
- Still more from Cosmic Log's UFO files
- Search for UFOs on msnbc.com
You can connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page or following @b0yle on Twitter. Also, give a look to "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.


I have see UFO twice in my life. One was in a rural area. And both sightings were close to a coast line.
I beleive that Roswell is a Red Herring for alien machinery, although it may also be used for real testing of American made machinery for the military.
another MSN line of BS
The Japanese were sending balloon bombs at the United Sates during WW2. Maybe America made similar types of balloon bombs also, why not. People always try out other peoples ideas to see if they would work and prefect them. And so they made some and were testing them out around that area. Maybe the disk was a fake disk bomb prototype or nuclear bomb dummy and they were running tests to see how good it would work. A disk shaped bomb on a balloon might have been an idea of a more perfected way to make a balloon bomb then the way a Japanese balloon bomb was made. Also it could confuse and hide it as a bomb balloon. It sounds like a good way to send a strong bomb or nuclear bomb into enemy territory where a suicide mission would have had to of been taken. The bomb could have been made to go off no matter what, so losing it to the enemy wouldn’t happen. Suicide missions were never really taken into effect as an American fighting style and so this idea was smart at the time technologically. No one had remote controlled things then too. Also the soviets were to good to travel over there country to drop a nuclear bomb or other bomb on because even our spy planes, other planes and maybe other air devices were always shot down. It could have been a working idea of a spy device to use on the soviets also.
I don't know about problems flying over the Soviets at this time or for other countries but the Germans had trouble and the Soviets proved to be trouble in the future. Trying out ideas are normal for a military and so I believe it was a test run of a new bomb balloon and a posible spy weapon in the future type of thing.
As weird as it sounds we might of had nuclear bombs that were disk shaped and that was the prototype for it being tested. A disk nuclear bomb or other bomb disk shaped would have worked with a situation where you got intel on where an enemy was going to travel and you could place it in advance of the enemy and they would travel over it and be destroyed. Killing troops and vehicles and ruining a path of travel. We didn't know what was going to happen in WW2 and it could have made a crossing impossible if we were betrayed or surprised or something, its weird to think of but sounds like a good tool. Maybe we were thinking of using the disk shaped one because we never got to use it in war and we didn't have many nuclear bombs then any ways. And the disk one ended up being a bad idea as confusing war ideas faded away because there were alot of surprises during WW2 with Countries changing sides. At the time this was tested, we might of been thinking of using a nuclreal bomb to fight the Soviets.
Has she been talking to Harold Camping?? Seems as outlandish.
They had bug eyes from watching The View and lil tiny heads from listening to O'Blabla and Pelosi... There's ur proof.
Do we get some lingerie pics of the Author if we buy this book?
I don't know… The three stooges would definitely lend more credibility to the story that it actually deserves. Besides, there's some things that even the three stooges wouldn't stoop to. Although Tom Cruse might go for it; at least he's not dead. ;-)
Well if anyone actually believes this woman's printed comedy, they, in turn, should have no problem believing that the three stooges would star in the movie version.
I've met somebody who was in the military during the Roswell incident and he was stationed in Roswell. He told me clearly this was an original UFO Story covered up by the US Government. This was, the "stollen" extra-terrestrial technology did not have to be shared with humans from other nations...
Annie Jacobsen: the "Rebecca Black" of book-writers (notice I did *not* say "authors"). What an embarassing way to get your 15 minutes.
This is without a doubt the stupidest theory yet on the Roswell incident. I doubt if the Russians (or anyone else) have the technology to do this today much less over sixty years ago. I agree that it is ridiculous for MSN to be putting something so idiotic out there.
I find it amusing that people will hold onto the notion of little green men and visitors from other planets. I guess every one is entitled to their dream in something out there. i for sure have seen no real evidence for aliens and space crafts, its always been cover ups, or some secret research test flights of some new age aircraft that someone is trying to keep secret. Time to come back to reality
The next thing you know she will be telling us that someone has actually walked on the moon.
What a crock of sheep! If the Soviets had any stealth technology they would not have held back in using this technology on their entire fleet of aircraft.
well, talking about these things, i have been studying the subject for over 50 years ,exactly 56,ever since i was witness to an out of this world event ,really two,one in 1955 ,one in 1959.don't really like to talk about it, but i will if some people would like to hear.
i would like to hear about them. I have also had some out of this world experiences. Most recently I believe i've been taken by aliens in my sleep, to the point of setting up security cameras to every entry point to my bed room. After the security cameras were setup and running the aliens stopped taking me at night, but I forgot to record one night and that night they knew I wasnt recording and took me again.
How I know I am being taken by aliens?
I wake up to my alarm in the morning, go take a shower... then about 10 to 20 min after ive been awake I have to dry heave several times. I never through up anything, and I dont drink at all the nights before. I will find patches of hair on my arms trimmed as if someone took a hair sample. I will find a cluster of small needle pricks somewhere on my arm that isnt covered by hair. These clusters of needle pricks take about 2 to 3 days to completely go away, but always if I wake up and dry heave I will be able to find a new cluster of needle pricks on my arm.
I feel like aliens are injecting me with some seditive to make me unconcious while they study me, and the side effect is causing me to dry heave in the morning after I wake up.
One night they injected me on a calysis on the meety part of my thumb on my hand and the seditive didnt take effect and I woke up and instantly they dislocated my arm from my shoulder. I yelped in pain and they put it back into place poked me with a bigger needle on my right bisept and I passed out. The next night they came again but this time to fix my shoulder. I woke up to find a cluster of needle pricks on my shoulder and the tenden that had torn the night before and left my deltoid with an indentation where it had saged over the shoulder joint had all been fixed. However they left a bone chip floating around in my shoulder.
The only thing I can remember after being taken each time is that I tossed and turned all night long but never opened my eyes, but in my memory I can see myself tossing a turning while I sleep.
I live with my girlfriend and she has experienced the same things... mainly the cluster of needle marks on the arm and dry heaving in the mornings.
From my experiences I believe the reason aliens take me is to study human intelligence and not our biology. They want to know what the smartest humans on the planet know and think. Im not calling myself the smartest person on the planet but I do have a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and would consider myself on the forefront of technology. They want to know how much we know about what we have taken from them/ what they have given to us.
"The source is quoted as saying he saw Russian writing stamped on a ring that went around the inside of the aircraft," This is where the story falls down.
What would be the point of leaving Russian writing on it if the Russians wanted to panic the US into believing that there were aliens? Why have deformed dwarves at the controls if the origin was obvious?
The Russians have been probing the US airspace on a daily basis since the end of the last war. The idea is that they fly in at various places, heights and speeds in a variety of aircraft and check when the monitored US transmissions indicate that they have been seen.
"Jacobsen's source believes that the Soviets dispatched flying-disk drone aircraft from a mothership flying near Alaska. Intermittent radar signals were picked up by U.S. installations, but the disks were nevertheless able to enter U.S. airspace and come down near Roswell, N.M."
3000 miles without being detected - how much and what sort of fuel was it carrying? And as late as the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Russians had nothing like the Blackbird?
Someone has been at the mushrooms again.
This is absolute nonsense... People will believe anything.
The bell tech went to Argentina. According to lockheed martin scientists the ship was driven by aliens - taken down by the new radar, and we gained a bi of back engineered tech, but the subsequent negotiations gave us(black ops) a lot more tech.
Madder than a March hare!
Relying on statements of a single person without any verifying documentation is irresponsible. Jacobsen should be ashamed of herself.
Just the allegation that that these ‘flying disks’ were dropped off from mother ships off Alaska and were flown all the way to New Mexico is ridiculous. Even today there isn’t an aircraft in the sky available that is that small that could make a trip of such distance. That alone should be a big red flag that this is really just about someone trying to sell a book.
I'd beleive that Rosewell really was about aliens from another planet before I'd beleive this crock.
People in general are gullible to just about anything. Science tends to sound more and more like a crock of @!$%# every day.
I called Santa Claus and he agrees, this story doesn't sound very believable.
Easter Bunny
OK, so the military didn't want the public to think that an alien space craft crashed in Roswell so they concocted a few different stories to tell the public.
Is it too far from the realm of possibility to assume that they would also make up a story (or more) to circulate among the lower (and perhaps even some of the upper) military ranks to avoid the risk of the truth ever coming out?
I think this is one such story. Eventually, the TRUTH Will Be Known, but I don't think this is it....
Glen Beck was found drifting around the states of Utah, Nevada & other surrounding areas blown out of his mind on LSD & a bible before he found Fox network to believe his stories. He'll be back in the same space ship he came in on.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha etc, etc, etc.
Folks...
I personally find it very hard to believe this lady and what she wrote in her book.
Further, I would love to believe in UFO's if they would only have the common courtesy to let me see one!
Did see some funny lights one time, but it was after I had had about 36 bottles of beer and was busy chasing a skirt that wasn't necessarily interested in me catching her.
Just Saying...