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INAH
The Maya Long Count calendar and its connection to 2012 have long been topics of controversy.
What is it about doomsday that draws a crowd?
Time after time, doomsayers have predicted the breakdown of society on a date certain, stirring up a buzz that builds to a crescendo and ends in a crash when doomsday doesn't come. 1844 brought the Great Disappointment, 1999 brought the Y2K alarm, 2011 brought the Rapture ruckus, and exactly a year from today, we're due for the Maya apocalypse.
If the past is any indicator, we'll be intently blogging, tweeting and indulging in black humor as the clock ticks down to Dec. 21, 2012. Then, on Dec. 22, we'll look around for the next doomsday.
It's just human nature, says Oregon State University sociologist Richard Mitchell, author of a book about survivalist trends titled "Dancing at Armageddon." Telling stories and trading tips for making it through the catastrophe that's ahead of us are pursuits that go back to ancient times.
"The attraction of all of these 'final crisis' tales is in the re-narration, the puzzling out of the details, the putting of fragmented facts into a coherent narrative," Mitchell said.
There are plenty of fragmented facts to choose from for 2012's "end of the world" narrative, including the Maya Long Count calendar, which supposedly winds down to the end of a 5,126-year-long cycle next Dec. 21. Today the city of Tapachula in southern Mexico is turning on a digital clock for the yearlong countdown, and Mayan priests are performing a ceremony at a nearby archaeological site.
They're dramatizing the doomsday date largely to drum up tourism. "If people are interested, we have to take advantage of this," Manolo Alfonso Pino, the regional tourism director for Mexico's Chiapas state, told The Associated Press.
Other angles include the recent string of natural disasters and extreme weather events, the upswing in solar activity, and even the ramp-up of the Large Hadron Collider. The narrative gets embellished with additional twists from seemingly ancient lore, such as the feared approach of a mysterious unseen planet, or a prediction that "30 hours of blindness" will beset us.
Some of the concerns should be taken seriously — for example, heightened solar storms really can have a negative effect on power grids and communication satellites, and the link between global warming and wild weather is truly a valid topic of scientific debate. But there's no need to worry about Planet X or the LHC, and even the real concerns aren't any cause for catastrophic talk. Don Yeomans, who heads the Near Earth Object Program at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, addresses the 2012 hype in this video:
JPL scientist Don Yeomans provides the 4-1-1 on 2012.
Mitchell doesn't expect the hard-core prophets of doom to accept the assurances of NASA ... or, for that matter, Cosmic Log. "They don't trust the media or academia, because we do in fact pose a real threat — not to their physical well-being, but to their storytelling," he said.
Any potential for panic?
Is there a danger in doomsday stories? Based on his studies of survivalists, Mitchell doubts that 2012 worries will touch off mass panic. He told me that folks who are worried about the collapse of society usually shy away from group activities. "There aren't any 'groups,' though one will pop up every once in a while, just to see and be seen," he said. "It's just a myth to suggest that groups exist, other than online mailing lists that nudge electrons back and forth. Largely, it's individual activity, if there's any activity at all."
But Rosanna Guadagno, a social psychologist at the University of Alabama, worries that websites and apocalyptic chatter on the Internet could create a "tipping point" for 2012 hysteria. "I think it's going to ramp up as we get closer to next December," she told me.
Guadagno's research focuses on the effect that computer-mediated communication has on social interaction and influence.
"The one thing that we have going against us is the way that information spreads online," she told me on Tuesday. "For example, yesterday half the world thought Jon Bon Jovi was dead, just because one person set up a website."
What if someone decided to go viral with the apocalypse?
"It won't take that many people to take advantage of the Internet, to basically spread a lot of misinformation and cause panic among greater numbers," Guadagno said. "Hopefully the general public will be forewarned that this is all bunk."
That's what we're here for. And we'll be here whenever the bunk hits the fan during 2012. So whatever you do, DON'T PANIC!
Update for 5 p.m. ET: The doomsday predictions have centered on Dec. 21 as the fateful date, but that's not the unanimous opinion of experts on Maya glyphs. Penn Museum's Simon Martin, for example, is among those who say that Dec. 23 rather than Dec. 21 marks the end of the Maya calendar's millennia-long baktun cycle. Actually, the discrepancy may turn out to be more than just a couple of days: Gerardo Aldana, a professor at the University of California at Santa Barbara, says conversions of the Maya calendar to the modern calendar could be off by as much as 50 to 100 years.
An exhibit at the Penn Museum, titled "Maya 2012: Lords of Time," will focus on the ancient Maya people's conceptions of the universe, including their ideas about time and the calendar. The Philadelphia show opens on May 5 and will end on ... Jan. 13, 2013.
Extra credit: After 2012, what's the next doomsday to watch for? Here are a few dates that are popping up:
- 2014, when the LHC is due to reach full power. Some folks believe the second decade of any century is a rough time, just because it historically has been. Nicholas Boyle, a professor specializing in German literature and history at Cambridge University (and no close relative of mine), has already written a book on that theme titled "2014: How to Survive the Next World Crisis." Not sure what that has to do with German, but OK.
- 2029, when futurist Ray Kurzweil expects machine intelligence to equal human intelligence.
- 2045, when Kurzweil foresees a global transformation dramatic enough to be classified as a "singularity."
- 2060, the "no-earlier-than" date for Isaac Newton's predicted doomsday.
It's interesting that these dates are all about 15 years apart. Is there a 15-year doomsday activity cycle, analogous to the 11-year solar activity cycle? That's one more thing to mull over in the comment section below.
More from '2012 Watch':
- Mayan region launches countdown
- The end is not near in 2012
- 'Death Star' debunked
- Don't fret over Planet X
- Pole shift comes with the territory
- Stressed by storms and supernovas?
- Alien invaders vs. the truth squad
- Solar cycle sparks doomsday buzz
- Doomsday brouhaha over Betelgeuse
- French village flooded by doomsday survivalists
- Court case over LHC doomsday finally closed
- 'End of the world' delayed ... by Mayan calendar
Alan Boyle is msnbc.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
Leave a Comment:
I just have a brief comment on this and I am not sure everyone will understand what I am trying to say but here goes.
Why can't my fellow Skeptics just stick to the facts, explain why they think its not going to happen (The End of the World that is) and please say its your opinion because in reality who knows what could happen. Right? I am not saying the world will end on so and so date but I am saying that no one knows the future. However we can be pretty sure nothing is going to happen. Why can't my fellow skeptics put it the way I just said, instead of making snide (SP) remarks, put downs and out right making fun of those who believe in this stuff. You need to remember that many honestly do believe this is going to happen and making fun of them only makes things worse. If you truely want to help, be their friend. Don't make fun of them, gradually show them that the odds of the world ending is very low (I would try to have the friend who believes this discover, just how low the odds are that the world will end, on their own, that way they will be more willing to let this doomsday stuff go). But above all else do not make fun of those who believe the world will end.
Thank you and yes this is my opinion
Nope, sorry, I'm with those who have no patience with the looney tunes. The world is gonna end one day, but not for many, many millenia. That's not opinion, it's fact. Anyone stupid enough to believe differently deserves our ridicule and scorn, and I certainly don't want someone like that as my friend, fercryinoutloud. Please keep me well away from the science-deniers.
I wouldn't say the the world could not end in 2012, only that those claiming the end is nigh, are reacting more to voices in their head, than actual facts around us.
Yup, the sun could explode. A comet could crash into the earth. Some series of human blunders could bring on a nuclear war. Or, if there is a god, he [or she] could finally say enough is enough.
Anything is possible. Very little of the above is likely immanent.
That only works if one is dealing with a rational thought process. But most of the adherents to these dooms day scenarios have an emotional commitment to their belief system which borders on the delusional.
I would not spend a great deal of time making fun of them. But neither would I try to convince them they are wrong. Might as well try and stop the rain from falling.
If Republicans keep destroying our economy soon enough doomsday will come to the Middle class.
Well, two ways we can look at this: One is that doomsday predictions are about as ridiculous as this idea that there is no God. Second, the devil keeps trying to guess the day and he keeps getting it wrong, because he doesn't have foreknowledge, like God does.
When it will spell doom for a world that turns away from God (Who has committed all judgement to His Son, Jesus Christ), no one knows for sure. The next great fulfillment of prophecy is the rapture of the church, when all true, born again Christians will disappear from this earth. This will happen "when you think it won't". And the Father (that's God ) has fixed the time by His own authority. So, nobody knows when the hammer will fall. Till then, it's just business as usual.
Oh, and no worries. When it happens, you'll know it.
Since the end is predicted for December 21, 2012 I think I hear Mr. Scrooge saying "Bah Hum Bug!"
The most brainwashing and destructive doomsday cults center around the 'second coming' idea of reformed Christianity. These are the folks that would often gladly see humanity wiped out in one frenzy of religious fantasy.
Hey Smoky Duck, NASA has missed more cataclysm-sized objects in the last 50 years than you can shake a stick at. We're overdue and we're gonna get whacked. Climate change is spawning some nasty weather events and that in itself is something to consider. We will not be here for millenia, and if we are, shortly we'll be sent back to the Stone Age with a city-sized rock from space.
Your crazy fairy tale is just as bad as any other, Levi777. Yours is just one more in a long line of cults, nothing more or less.
LuLz Lusitania"
It only took 4 comments to blame the end of the world on Republicans. What story did you just read? To me there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. It's like watching wrestling. It's all a show.
(Back to the topic now)
Nobody can predict any disaster.
Hey it's a free country, believe what you want.
Merry Christmas
I am staying on topic Rockyroad, In fact why do you think this is talked about so frequently, because many are living doomsday right now..
Many did see the wall street disaster coming.
Merry Christmas to you also
Dates are a man-made invention. Look how many calendars there have been in use. Even today there are different calendars in China and the Middle East. Unless these ancient people or anyone else has some insight as to when a comet will impact the earth and cause mass extinctions pay no attention.
Otherwise, humans are much more in danger of killing ourselves off through war, environmental destruction, and over population than any doomsday scenario.
If the Mayans predicted the end of the world in 2012 then why couldn't they predict the end of their civilization???? Weird if you ask me!
it's much more fun to mock people while we can.
Magnum, I agree, though I doubt that those who believe in superstitions are really open to a valid, reasonable argument. Still, we gain no credibility when we indulge in ad hominum attacks.
I have a very simple and very correct outlook on people who believe this malarkey. They're stupid! Totally stupid! If they were employed in my company and made it clear that they believed this idiocy, I would consider them to be a complete security risk and fire their lame butts immediately. Any moron who believes the world is going to end next year has no interest in making my company a profit, because after all, we'll all be gone next year. Buh-bye!
It's because "doomsday" is derived from religious nonsense.
If you actually talk to someone who is native Mayan about the the end of the world based on the Mayan calendar, they will tell you that "Americans are crazy". I spent many years living in Guatemala, and have been to Tikal and many other ruins locations within Guatemala and Mexico. The Mayans like to look at our theory of the world ending, and laugh. They say it's just the end of an era, and nothing more. Not the Apocalypse.
The Bible tells us that the test of a prophet is if what they say comes to pass. Well, you may wonder what good is that. If every prophet told the truth ONLY and we believed what they said, there'd be no room for faith.
"end of an era"? I'd go with that. We've been in an intermission state since 70 A.D., parked right between Daniel 9:26 and 9:27.
Oh, and Moomar, Jesus said, "Broad is the path to destruction, and narrow is the way to Life, and few are those who find it." How's it feel to be part of the status quo? Those who found the "broad" path? And those 14 (at last count) who agree with you. "Many are called, few are chosen" is another saying. You mock me and the truth which I received, (as do the 14 who agree with you, at last count), and show yourself to be normal. Jesus makes us exceptional.
I would really like to see your opinions when the culmination of the age comes to pass. But I doubt I'll even think about it. I'll be rather 'busy'.
Please, Levi777,
Stop going on with the religious doomsday thing. I understand you believe fully in it, and if it happens, and if you live through it, then I permit you to carry out a jig on my grave. ALTHOUGH, I beseech you, don't go jumping around joyfully about the end of the earth. At any rate, the earth will not end. Our human race may end assuming we start getting very angry at eachother in this coming year. However this seems very unlikely to occur; but nothing is impossible in the world of the unconscious mind.
I believe this whole thing on the end of the earth is rediculous. It's like saying that on the 4th day of the 4th month, in the year 2044 my favourite tea pot will smash into a thousand pieces. This may be the case, I can garentee that some day, my tea pot will smash into pieces, but I cannot tell you when, and to be honest, it doesn't matter when. The end of our race will occur when it occurs, and when it occurs, we wont have a bloomin clue about it because it'll be over before we can say "wh-" out of the phrase "what the hell is that"
Cheers.
Rinzai - Buddhist,
I didn't say anything about the end of the world. (I reread my comments to make sure!) The "end of the world" isn't what I would be worrying about. And I won't be doing any jigs on anyone's grave. The "end of the earth" gives me no cause for joy. I think of all the people...
Hollywood gives us "end of the earth" scenarios, and so do some whacko doomsday predicters. Personally, I believe this earth will go on far, far into the future. I'm more concerned with this day, and the days I am alive on the earth. How can I speak the truth to people, and beg for them to bow their knee, humble their hearts, and seek after the One who made us all? There is suffering and tragedy plenty in this world. I'm not big enough or talented enough to consider all of that, and have to even pare down my view of what people endure in this world to specific places and times.
There is a portion of scripture in the Bible, Old Testament, that has gained in popularity. It's in the book of Micah, chapter 6 verse 8;
"He has shown you, O man, what is good; Do justice. Love mercy, and walk humbly with your God."
I could sit and ponder what these three mean all day long, and how to develop the understanding of when each applies. How do I do justice? Do I really love mercy, even if I say I do? Walking humbly with God, I know that there is no good thing in me which I did not recieve.
These are the considerations for today. God has it all under control, and He alone knows when it will all end. That's why today is so important, and tomorrow must be left for tomorrow. Yesterday can't be changed. It's done. I'm learning how to live today so yesterday is pleasant memory, not a regret. These are the considerations for today, and I think it's quite enough to fill anyone's plate. I flat don't have time for anything else. And I'm not that smart.
Cheers to you, and Merry Christmas!
Well said Levi 777 very honest and logical thinking....That's the 3rd time I've heard that Micah scripture mentioned in the past week.......hmmmmm.....
Merry Christmas.
Religion is for the weak and Levi77 fear mongering of his cult is depressing to listen to
And you're a fool who either cannot or will not understand.
Ducey, it actually takes a LOT of courage to endure the mocking and insults from those who declare there is no God. You are right in this though. Jesus isn't a crutch. He's my wheelchair. You, on the other hand, sail through life not knowing that you commit great trespass and sin, in that you have no idea what are God's standards. But it's okay. The people of God who walked in the truth have always been mocked and ridiculed by the atheists and unbelievers of their day.
JMO...FR on the way.
Alternate theory. Maybe the day that the aliens ( not Mexicans ) finally show up. Been watching too much Ancient Aliens on History Channel.
or the day their Earth Experiment will be over lol
Let's not forget the loony bins that wrongly interpret the dungeons and dragons stories in the book of revelations as predicting the end of the world, which it absolutely does not! Many I believe are being misled by this as we have seen many exmples of foOLlish peoplE selling their homes and quitting their jobs because some idiot with a bible tells them it is the END OF THE WORLD!!
From your expert standpoint, what does the book of Revelation mean? Please cite references to back up your interpretation. BTW, the 2012 thing has nothing to do with the Bible. It is a separate Mayan prophecy.
It means nothing related to any predictions of the end of the world as I said and I defy youWill-1091847 to point out where the book of revelations predicts the end of the world? I will wait and I knpw I will be waiting a long time because it does not period! Back it up big guy. And as far as being an expert on the bible? Amyone that spends any considerable time reading the bible is an expert as you should know the world is full of so-called experts.
There is no Mayan prophecy predicting the end of the world in 2012 by the way... someone made that crap up. They had many cyclical calendars that basically, when they end, start over. This is one of those. Think of it as a transition to a new epoch.
Of course... we're not even sure if we have the dates on that calendar right... I read somewhere we may have missed the rollover by as many as a couple hundred years.
It's the end of the world as we know it... and I feel fine.
You guys forgot about the rest of us . I love following the end of the world thing !!!! There are just to many things cummingtogether all at the same time . For me it is just a hobby , fun stuff to think about and toss around . Will something really happen ??? I don't have a clue and could care less . But on that day 12/21/12 I am taking a cold eix pack up on the roof and wait for the show to start !!!! Hope I don't fall off and hurt myself.
bob
Yep, like we can believe the guy on the history channel that doesn't even own a comb, looks like he has been scared at least 200 times a day. I can take him real serious, NOT!
It means some powerful hallucinogens were around in the 1st century.
I predict that many comments will be collapsed on the vine today due to disagreeing with poster!
I predict there will be much name calling on the vine today due to disagreeing with poster.
For more of my predictions though you must buy my book! LuLz! No I am not giving up my day job.
: )
Merry Christmas all!
Boatrocker
And I just thought it meant they had some world class story-tellers.
You know there is a theory that much religious zealotry in the past can be traced back to ergot poisoning.
I don't think they have any theory as to what causes it today.
End time prophecy
2 Peter 3:3-4 "Knowing this first, that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts. And saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming(2nd advent of Christ)? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
Rapture prophecy
2 Thessalonians 2:3-7 "Let no one deceive you by any means: for that Day(Judgement) will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition(antiChrist), Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped,....6. And now you know what is restraining(the Holy Spirit), that he may be revealed in his own time.7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He(Holy spirit who lives through church) who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way(rapture of Church).
Revelation prophecy of end of world is Rev 21:1. Says a new heaven and new earth are to be created.
Also 2 Peter 3:9-13 speaks of destruction of earth and heaven by a finally blow of fire, then a new heaven and earth is promised.
From a God who spoke the heavens and earth into existence by his word. Hebrews 11:3, Gen 1:1
@Will: It is not a Mayan PROPHECY. Go live with the Mayans and learn a thing or two.
While staying at the Black Rock Inn in the western end of Belize a few years ago, I asked a local guide about 2012. He pretty much said the same thing as LeftLeaningLisa. 2012 is the end of the current era and the beginning of a new one. Not a doomsday, but rather more like the turning of a page.
It's going to happen in 2012 and our govt. has been slowly preparing us through their increase in public radio announcements on how to prepare for an emergency
And we have a winner! The first looney bird to post about the coming apocylapse! Congratulations, Kevin-749492.
He's getting those subliminal messages beamed into his head by the government because he lost his tinfoil hat again. Kevin, just get a roll of tinfoil and wrap yourself up in it, but stay away from anything electrical, for your own safety.
Citation needed - other than your own wacky conspiracy theories.
I'm pretty sure Kevin is just playin' with us.
The people making the Doomsday predictions are making money off of the gullible - it's that simple. The gullible people that believe this garbage do so because they feel so unimportant in their own lives that they get a kick out of feeling as though they know something that others don't. It makes them feel special.
No one knows when the world will end. Anyone that feels certain that they know is a liar and a few other unrepeatable things. Science doesn't know, and religion knows even less.
As for the Mayan calendar, there is no evidence to support the claims people are making about it because it doesn't exist. And really, if they couldn't foresee the downfall of their own civilization, why should anyone worry about what they had to say of 2012, even if they were saying it was more than just the end of the calendar?
And others are making money feeding fear and hatred - Limbaugh, Hannity, & Beck come to mind...
I have no respect for them either. But then, I don't have respect for anyone that is even remotely involved in politics. Point? Because this has nothing to do with 2012.
Gillibility and stupidity isn't limited to politics.
Gumps Gillibility = For those that believe in Gilligan's Island?
I agree, Gumps, but why bring politics into the thread? There is no point. This is about the Mayan BS, not political BS. Some of the comments on here are brilliant on so many levels.
I think you should go and buy everyone who you know who's gullible some 2012 Apocalypse Insurance (and a Tshirt!) (you can google it) www.2012ins.com .
... of course, I own the company...
... and its for entertainment purposed only!
-SC
It's not that the evidence is compelling. It's that some people are fundamentally lazy and stupid, and others are greedy and unscrupulous. This will always be a recipe for people to believe the dumbest things imaginable.
We're all gonna die!!! Run and hide! Run and hide!
Seal your windows with duct tape first. Oh wait, that was a dubya scare.
It amazes me how many people out there are so impressionable. One person says something, and they instantly believe it. Nothing is going to happen on December 21st, 2012. Actually, I take that back. What we will see is a lot of people in panic mode. A lot of people running for the hills...clammering into bunkers. People will empty out their bank accounts, sell everything they own, buy tons of food and water, and hide in a cave somewhere. There will probably be people who will committ suicide too...which is very sad. The Bible talks about false prophets and that not even the angels in heaven and the son of God know what's going to happen. If anyone has watched the 1981 Orson Welles documentary "The Man who saw tomorrow" (documentary on Nostradamus - which you can watch on YouTube in nine 9-minute parts), you can see that none of Nostradamus's predictions from the 1980's to present day happened. It's easy to believe his past predications from the past few centuries happened because anyone can say anything about events that have already happened. In a nut shell...we all make our own futures. Nobody can predict the end of the world. Be smart people. Life is too short to stress over end-of-the-world predictions weak-minded people make.
Nate: Are you a physic? I am asking because you first state that nothing is going to happen in 2012 and then you go to say that we dont know when the Earth will end, so how are you sure that 2012 is not the end of the world time????
(yawn) I'm going to (yawn) prepare for (yawn) doomsday by zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
People who don't buy Christmas presents will have doomsday upon them alright - four days later when they face the wrath of expectant loved ones! Bwahahaha!
That's pretty sad that people would be angry about a "loved one" not buying them a gift for Christmas. It kinda throws the whole "loved one" thing out the window. The real love these days seems to be for stuff rather than people.
How far in advance to we print our calendars, today? Think about it.
Since most of the Mayan writing/texts were destroyed by the Spanish, we will never know all the details of the Mayan predictions. For all we really know, the Mayans could have written something like, "The world will end on December 21, 2012 . . . . because too many people are on this side of the world, and it will tip over into the ocean, and everyone will drown." Don't laugh, we have a congressman who said the same thing about Guam. (Look it up on YouTube, it's a hoot.)
I guess it all depends on how stupid and/or gullible one is.
"To be, or not to be? That is the question." Rather - to be whacked or not to be whacked. That is the question! The odds are better in Vegas.
Take your pick: The Mayan Calendar Event; Asteroid impact; Doomsday Virus; Dirty (or) 'Clean' Nuke; Electromagnetic Pulse Weapon and we're thrown back 200 years into the past with no electricity; Knowing we're REALLY not alone and every religion on the planet throws its hands in the air and says, "There goes the show."; The Super Vulcano under Yellowstone Park; The Earth's Core stops spinning and we lose our electromagnetic shield; The Earth experiences yet another 'Pole Reversal'. Coming soon by the way; We experience a direct hit by a Long Gamma Ray Burst because there REALLY is a death star who's poles are aimed right at Earth AND? We continue to overpopulate and pollute our planet to death while our glorious politicians fight for more tax breaks for the rich!......take your pick and have a Merry Christmas even though saying so, isn't politically correct!
watching for "doomsday" will be far more interesting than watching the elections.
This story missed another important doomsday date: January 19, 2038. On that date, the way Unix system clocks keep track of time will reset to zero and digital life as we know it will come to an end.
Oh god! I hope they bring back Elvis!
Let me see if I understand all this. A bunch of modern people believe an ancient fable that was handed down from generation to generation. Starting with an oral tradition, ancient people made up stories to "explain" things they did not understand like, oh, I don't know, the sun and the moon and the Earth and the stars and the weather and how crops grew and rain came down and so forth. Fast forward to today, and modern people still believe in these stories.
Kind of reminds me of another myth that started as an oral tradition and was written down in languages no longer spoken and thus had to be "translated" by many different cultures who spoke many different languages and had many different agendas who, how to say it, SLANTED the myth, to better state the message they wanted conveyed to people at that time and place. You know, who is in charge, and who is given the "divine right" to be in charge of the rest of the people in that country or civilization. You remember Cuniforms, which are the first record of writing used so they could write down their myths about the gods of wheat and so forth? Well, until the military took over and decided what their myth REALLY meant and how it would be told.
I don't know; maybe these myths are still true. Well, some people believe they are, right?
Myth=bible=koran=babes in toyland
blindness=atheism=lack of understanding
I was actually planning on stealing a car that day and using it as one part of an overall Jason Bourne-esque day of mayhem. The world had better end, or I will be in sooooo much trouble the next day.
:D
well...since the earth spins on it's axis...and it's already tomorrow on the other side of the International Dateline...do you suppose when Doomsday comes that we could get a tweet, e-mail, facebook post from someone letting us know if it's hellfire & brimstone...OR...a little considered scenario...rainbows and lollipops???
Heard an interesting comment on NPR the otherday...something like..."we live in the most amazing time, and yet there is so much unhappiness". This is an A-MAZING time to be alive...we are not nearly thankful enough for what we do have...and there are people who could make a huge differnce for the unfortunate if they were inclined to do so. If there is something apocalyptic that occurs I'm voting for the re-balancing of the planet into something more postive...re-alignment of the yin & yang of the planet.
ISIS-1778375,
I'm afraid you are led slightly astray. there is always yin and yang, no matter what. Whether you are able to see it right in front of your eyes is irrelevent. Yin and Yang are mere opposites, in gender, Male, and Female. In existence; objects, and Void. In answers, Yes, and No. As well as countless other examples. Yin & Yang is not something that can ever be lost. The earth is always in perfect balance and out of balance. it just takes a while to see it, like many other things, this world can be the most beautiful thing the eye can behold, or it is the most hideous thing one can see, all at the exact same time.
All I know is that my larder is stocked with spam and creamed corn and I will wait out the apocalypse with my gun in my hand hunkered down in my concrete lead-lined bunker, hiding from the zombies until the air clears from the nuculer fallout.....
Yuck.......I hate spam!!!!!
There are going to be some very RICH preachers after this! THEY will PREY on the weak minded and these people will give them everything and then when nothing happens will be feeling so STUPID.
Now if I were to give these doomsday preachers something it would be: If it happens, you get squat because we will all be dead or dying anyway and you won't need it, and if nothing happens then you still get squat because, well, NOTHING happened!
You are right about that. The Evangelicals get orgasmic telling us about Armageddon, the guy that wrote their book wasn't even a Christian he was Jewish Zealot just like the Zionist of today.
The Shia Islamist in Iran are waiting on their 12th Imam and expect the destruction of all non-Muslims.
I wonder why people would think that ancient people had any better line to their chosen God or Goddess than the people of today. Pretty sick people all the way around.
That feeling of being taken advantage of is why no one is ever prosecuted for fleecing their flock. When you feel stupid you don't want to tell anyone about it. The very reason these Mega Preachers can do bad things for years before they are caught.
Keith, let me clear up a few things for you. I understand why you believe your comments, but not trying to be antagonistic, let me set you straight on a few things.
The Bible is 66 different books, written over a course of about 2500 years, by 40 different authors. Some compelling facts: Keep in mind no scholar who wishes to be taken seriously disagrees with the historical dating of the books of the Bible.
1) Jesus, in His birth, life, death and resurrection, fulfilled almost 490 prophecies. The odds of that happening are described as follows: Cover the state of Texas 3 feet deep in silver dollars, fly over the state at 30,000 feet with one painted red, and drop it. Then find it.
2) The book of Daniel, completed around 520 b.c., tells the date of the rebirth of the nation of Israel to the day. May 15th, 1948.
3) Psalm 22, written by King David, describes the crucifixion of a man, 600 years before the Persians invented crucifixion, and 1500 years before the Romans perfected it as a means of execution. The type of descriptions are commensurate with the day of Jesus Christ on the earth, for example, "strong bulls of Bashan" are allegorical for Roman soldiers.
4) If the writer of the Bible was a Jewish zealot, how do you explain Paul the Apostle's authorship of his writings AFTER he became a follower of Jesus Christ, and therefore, a Christian? Also, he did not write even most of the books of the Bible.
Also, as for the 12th Imam, I maintain the opinion, until additional information comes to light showing otherwise, that such a one is the "man of sin", popularly known as the antichrist. You can read one of the descriptions of him in Daniel 9:27; he makes a "covenant" with Israel to allow the continuation of "sacrifice and offering" which means the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt. Who could pull that off, but a Muslim, viewed as a messiah? Also, the "Twelvers" who believe in the 12th Imam believe his reign will be 7 years, and that he will install Islam as the world religion. It is true that this "antichrist" will seek to anihilate all Jews and those who believe in Jesus Christ. But no worries. The rapture of the church will come first.
The rapture of the church will be an unmistakeable sign that will change the belief system of many people. Life will never be the same again, and the only way anyone would miss that it happened is if they are in a coma, in a vegetative state. It will be known all over the world. Until it happens, no worries. The antichrist will not appear.
And the battle of Armageddon is way, WAY WAY WAY in the future. You will be "sleeping in the dust of the earth" long before that happens.
Oh and one thing I almost forgot: None of us chose Him. He chose us and revealed Himself to us. We simply believed Him and accepted Him into our hearts. Merry Christmas!
Levi777
Did you Arrive at these conclusions through your own rationalist reasoning? Or did you use a more certain Empiricist style to come to your conclusions?
Hi Rinzai Buddhist...
There are compelling evidences that I ponder and consider, such as the 12th Imam. Is he indeed the one popularly called "the antichrist"? I freely admit that's opinion, through my own reasoning. But in popular considerations, what is the motive of this antichrist? Why go after the Jews and those who cling to faith in Jesus? Is it limited to only those? To make the world Muslim speaks to motive for his 3 and 1/2 year reign of terror.
I also freely admit that what has been revealed, as far as the truths of God, can not be proven by empirical research. Some things, however, are proven. For example, those would deny the 520 B.C. dating of the book of Daniel must at least deny the 200 B.C. dating of the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures...the Torah and Ha'Torah...or the Law and the Prophets.
Here's an interesting page:
http://witnessinggod.wordpress.com/tag/daniel/
Here's the one on the rebith of the nation of Israel:
http://discernthetime.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=520
Here's a link to a partial list of the prophecies fulfilled by Jesus Christ:
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txh/proph.htm
Keep in mind, the meaning of the word "Prophecy" as used here is a "foretelling of future events revealed by God to man".
I'm not sure an empirical style can be put to matters of faith, however these things can be dismissed with a wave of the hand, but only by those who refuse to actually consider their veracity.
Thank you for your decent pondering of the information. I don't care if someone challenges what I believe. How can any truth be proven true if it doesn't stand up to challenge, even strenuous challenge? I only ask that people be honest, whatever their persuasion and position.
Levi - My life took a difficult turn or two on my way toward old age. If there is a loving god I deserve Heaven no matter what I believe or what you believe. I lived through He((, after that I denied my Fundamentalist Christian raising for the idiocy that it is. Most of the stuff you Evangelicals believe is not even in the Bible. Your arrogance is the final indication I need that you are not the bearer of truth.
I am not going to waste my time worrying about the end of the world that is no going to come. You Christians will be awfully disappointed when you see who all is in Heaven with you.
You are full of it. By no stretch of the imagination can your book prove its own truth. That is the stupidest circular reasoning that can be found. So, don't try to convince me that my lack of consideration is the problem, I have a life time of study that led me away from the type of Christianity you profess. With any luck you will grow up and find your way to God without the ignorant certainty of Evangelical Zeal.
Wow, Keith. Have a lot of pent up hatred and angst for anyone who believes in the Bible. I reported your comment as inflammatory for your violations of the Code of Honor. It's only fair.
But to answer your angry response to my message to you, I see that you are denouncing what I offered as proof without even considering if it is true or not. Unfortunately, that's a common occurence. Do you deny the historical dating of the books of the Bible? Here's the link I posted for the Buddhist concerning the prophecy stating the rebirth of the nation of Israel to the day.
What do you think? Is it true or false? Hate me, hate God, I don't care. You are in some austere company. Some mighty fine people hate me for what I stand for, and hate God. But do I speak the truth about future events?
As for your fundamentalist upbringing, I understand. I was brought up in an environment that did me no favors whatsoever. However, one thing I have learned for sure. Even though my parents failed miserably in that aspect of my upbringing, I am still responsible for the truth I have received, and it really is a copout to blame my upbringing for my lot in life. I know you count on a God of love, as you have said. We all like the God of love aspect, but while God is the very definition of love, He is also holy and pure. He made a way, through Jesus, to escape the judgement that is coming. You are responsible for that truth. Be assured also, you will find plenty of people who will support you in your abandonment of the truth. The truth is one. What does that make every other way?
I'm sorry that your fundamentalist upbringing left you with something you felt you needed to overcome.
Levi - I don't hate you I just find you offensive. I don't hate God, I have a wonderful relationship with God. I hate your type of organized religion.
Well, Keith, you need to get a clue. You can't say "I love God" and hate His people. Your rant above proves to me that you can't stand your misunderstanding of my relationship with Him. Here's something for you. Church is supposed to be the fruit of our relationship with Him, not the source. Now you either grew up with it being the supposed source, and what you have now is some pseudo-relationship of your own making, or you have a vibrant relationship with Him so that when you DO go to church, it's a celebration, not a repentance and reconnecting meeting.
Whatever you reacted to, you completely misunderstood. If you reject the Bible, then there is no other alternative but you are winging it as you see fit, doing what seems right in your own eyes. I told you the truth, and you find that offensive, and you find me offensive. I have nothing to give that I did not receive, and I received it from Him who teaches us and guides us in the way we should go. It is He who inspired the writers of the Bible to write the words contained therein, and there is more than ample proof, let alone evidence, of the veracity of it's accounts. So go ahead, hate me. But seek God, and especially His will concerning your walk, because if you persist in hating those that believe His word, and hating the Bible, I must say that your faith is false, and you are still lost in your sins. If you indeed have a "wonderful relationship with God", you would not hate me, and you would recognize the truth of what I have said. Straight up.
And by the way, this isn't what you had as a child. I don't buy into strict, legalistic rules and regulations, devoid of the power of God.
That is what makes religion the perfect business! Cash in advance, no guarantees, do not have to prove anything is real, can't prove them wrong and they do not have to prove they are right. No one can audit the books! Stupid sheep swallow it all out of fear of what lies on the other side. Fear is the perfect tool to get the money out of the suckers. Paying for heaven and paying to keep out of hell. What a racket!
Levi - You are still offensive
Keith, you just don't get it. If you click the little exclamation point in the lower right hand corner of my comment, you can select the bottom option, "Ignore This Author". Then you won't have to look at my posts and can go on with your merry delusion.
still working...then you prove God is real. And if you want to be Mr. Stingypants and not give any of your hard earned cash to those money-grubbing charities, and spend it all on yourself, be my guest. And if you think it's fear-based then perhaps for you that's the case, and it's just good judgment. Contrary to what others have said, my relationship with God is one based on love...His love for me, and me trying to love Him as best I am able.
You know, I don't do the bar scene, and frat parties, and all that...and I'm certainly not an atheist, and I could sit back and declare how absolutely devoid of morality, maturity, learning and understanding are those such as you, but I choose not to. So you sit outside of the grace of God with Keith, and bash what you really don't understand. That makes perfect sense.
No Levi, I really do get it. I just don't like you or the other Evangelicals like you.
Okay, you show your "faith" to be invalid. By the way, keep your labels for those who deserve them. Since you can't do it, I'll go ahead and put you on ignore.