If you're wrong you'll owe them a HUGE apology!

wOoT?? Those people must be CRAZY saying the world is gonna end in 2013! Everyone knows it's 2012, dood!

;)

I don't think anyone can put a date on it, but yes a large enough solar flare could very quickly and easily put an end to modern civilization as we know it.

How big of a solar flare? Can you provide a link to read? Thanks

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! The MAAA YAAAns... ; ]

Cheers

It doesn't have to be that big, it just needs to take out power grids and communication satellites.

Don't have a link, but in the 80's parts of Canada lost all power do to solar flares.. Think it was in Vancouver.

Quebec

onefungi,

I think your right. I bet the 1% are buying and selling solar flare futures on the open market.

Ad'M

Thanks for the clarification.

Looking forward to this...I'm going to spark up a common road flare this Saturday and see which fizzy gives more bang for the buck.

Our civilization depends on electricity and electronics. A severe EMP (electromagntic pulse) could knock it out for months or even years-our cars now depend on electronic components-fry them and the car is useless.

Our electrical grid is not hardened. It is wide open to magnetic fluctuations. This flare up is mild but a more severe one would create problems.

Those who prepare will be all right those who don't prepare- don't knock on the doors of those who prepared.

True, but if you turn things off before the flare hits, then damage is minimal and flares aways give warning. Not usually tons of time (a few hours) but amply time to warn the power grids, shut off satellites, etc . . .

So, can a flare hurt us. Heck yes, but if we pay attention the damage would be minimal.

And a flare that would be powerful enough to knock out electronics in a car, near sea level would be massively powerful and unlikely. Not impossible, but unlikely.

Puh-lease FTW !!! LOL ! ZIIIIIINNNNGGGGGGGG !

Rizzoyour imagery is beyond just funny it was hilarious LOL

Bobby and Bouncer thanks for the information. I will check into it. Seems like we should be finding ways to prepare for the possibility of a solar flare like turning off the grid satellites etc. Wonder what you could do to protect your house and car? Hmmm

I don't quite understand something. Did the blast happen today? I was driving my sister to school and noticed the sun was riduclously brighter to me than normal. Though I may have still been groggy as I had just woken up 20 minutes before.

Interestingly the current Solar Cycle 24 is predicted to be the weakest in the last 80 years, which normally means somewhat lower amounts of radiation, and thus lower than normal temperatures on the Earth. In fact, the 'Little Ice Age' from the 1645 to 1715 was marked by a significant drop in solar sunspot activity. This Cycle is expected to peak in 2013, and the Cycles normally last about 11 years (technically, it's a 22 year cycle wherein the magnetic poles on the sun alternate every 11 years).

Bad news for Al Gore and his profitable 'global warming' religion.

Really, MSpielman.

The Mayans stopped making Almanacs (not Calendars) because the Spanish Conquistadors did not allow the Mayans to continue their "Witchcraft" (Culture). It was only until 2011 that the Mexican Government finally allow the Mayans to even open up Mayan Cultural Schools. The Spanish Conquistadors also wiped out other Native Cultures during their Quest for the Golden Cities. How about 2012 not 2013.

redager - True, but if you turn things off before the flare hits, then damage is minimal and flares aways give warning.

Wrong, for complete protection you MUST also remove any and all Batteries (that also means that the Electrolytic Storage Capacitors must be completely empty (discharged)). Also if possible the cases of the equipment must be 100% Grounded (path of least resistance), the metal case (example vehicle body) becomes a Faraday Cage to shield from EMP/EMR.

As far as Magnitude, NOPE. It only takes the right wave length to cause energy to go into the particular physical length of say the legs of a microprocessor. examples: During the 1960s the Island of Hawai'i suffered a black out after the EMP/EMR burst from a Nuclear Test thousands of miles away. During 2002-2003 Operation Hotel California we used non nuclear E-Bombs to put the Iraqis from the 20th Century into the Stone Ages, during this we disconnected all Batteries, most forgot about their digital watches (usually Casio Pathfinder watches) and all of those fried (I still wore a Mechanical Seiko Automatic Chronograph from when I was at Vietnam), you try and do coordinated attacks without wrist watches while maintaining radio silence. How about this go drive under low hung High Tension Power Transmission Lines and see what happens to a new vehicle (electric brakes, electric power assisted steering, electric power assisted brakes, "fly by wire", electric brake pedals, multiple computers, etc.) as today's vehicles are NOT created with US Military "Fly By Wire Technology" shielding and lightning dispersion technology (lightning also being a form of energy bursts that do cause EMP/EMR). Disclaimer of Liability, it is not my responsibility nor my liability if you do conduct the experiment of driving under low hung High Tension Electric Transmission Lines.

Ask yourself which is more durable subject to water, moisture, sunlight, weather, a electronic black box or a quarter inch steel control rod (mechanical brake pedal, linkage, etc.).

Uh, uh, huh, uh, uh, duh, huh.............Bush did it - The Demoncraptic Party

Well on our planet where I came from the solar flare was so big it just pushed everyone into orbit thats how we got here or at least some of us did..... The earth has been here for Billions of years the Sun has done it's Pulsating like any other star does for Billions and billions and Billions of earth years. Enjoy!

do yuo thimk i could litght myyy bowng with on? that wuold be so sweet

Tin Foil Hats and you'll be OK, ok?

Roy Wilson: "Bad news for Al Gore and his profitable 'global warming' religion."

Why? The fact that the sun cycles affect the climate doesn't mean that greenhouse gasses don't ALSO. Get a clue.

Of course the fact that you bring up Al Gore shows that you are only interested in the politics and not science, so that may be why you don't understand the science. The rest of us know that many things affect climate but solar flares are not one of them.

Are those solar flares I have in my car's trunk? They seem to work ok during the day... lol.

ok got the hat jefe'

Science theorizes that Solar Flares cause fart jokes.

jock59801 "Roy Wilson: "Bad news for Al Gore and his profitable 'global warming' religion." ..........Why? The fact that the sun cycles affect the climate doesn't mean that greenhouse gasses don't ALSO. Get a clue. Of course the fact that you bring up Al Gore shows that you are only interested in the politics and not science, so that may be why you don't understand the science. The rest of us know that many things affect climate but solar flares are not one of them."

I suspect that I have far more university courses in Science than you do, and I don't deny that man has had an impact on our climate, but I don't happen to be an alarmist like Al Gore - nor do I try to enrich myself with 'fervent' fear mongering.

Your assertion that solar flares do not affect global climate is your OPINION, and there are plenty of scientists that think that the apparent correlation between low sunspot activity and the cold temperatures during the Maunder Minimum and the Dalton Minimum is more than coincidence. There are far more solar flares during low levels of sunspots than during high levels of sunspots.

The sun has unleashed a blast in Earth's direction, and that should cause brighter-than-normal auroral displays this weekend.

Sounds exciting, but according to AL Gore, it's global warming.

Ok I just watched that show too Roy. The sun switches its pole on 11 year cycles and has 5 year cycles were it goes from lots of flares (The Maximum) to a low amount of flares (The Minimum) for the next 5 from the way I understood it. Is this correct? They said we are now in the minimum.

so is it impossible or science fiction for the earth to end,lets just say i hope it doesnt happen in my childrens lifetime,but for a more difinative answer you would have to ask Mr. T-rex.

From the sun for the Earth to end will take about another 5 million years when the sun switches to burning helium. That's when the sun will grow after shrinking to get hot enough to burn on helium. Atleast that's what they say.

david 475776 We use to park right under the power lines in Emlington, PA on top of the mountain in the snow and watch the stars. It was cool as hell you could see colors from the eletricity going through the lines in the ice on them and listen to the hum. I would even turn on the neons below my truck but never once did we have any power issues.

Pray tell roy, what is this "Science" class that one takes in college? One can take astronomy courses, and chemistry, and physics, and biology, and so on, but I never saw a "Science" course or class.

And brock, you're off by maybe 3 BILLION years on the whole helium thing.

And, as for temporarily "shutting down" in caase of a truly massive flare, how exactly would one in an orderly fashion shut down and harden the ALL the electrical networks onthe planet in the sapce of a few days? And you would HAVE to harden them (protect them from the surge). Your car, EVEN if you don't have it running, can be zapped out of commision by even the EMP of a nuke - see what happened in Hawaii when a a space born nuke went off nearly 900 MILES away - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Primehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime

Research has recently been published showing that a repeat of the "Maunder Minimum" would only slow down global warming by a small amount, especially if carbon emissions remain high. You can look up the results on skepticalscience.com, as I recall. They have a nice summary of climate-related research results from 2011.

puh leaze

I'm sorry, first I thought it was Global Warming, then I thought it was global climate change, I wanted to blame it on everything I could to make some money, and have some suckers buy in...glad you did, thanks.

Al Goore.

some folks are so predictable. Sun lets off a little gas and they go right to their comfort place....comfort in being angry...kind of strange if you ask me.

Jim-952823 -- the change in emphasis from "global warming" to "climate change" was ordered by Bush in 2003, on the advice of Republican propaganda expert Frank Luntz, who discovered that focus groups found "climate change" less threatening than "global warming". They were concerned that the environment was a major liability for Bush in the coming 2004 election, so to head the problem off early they ordered government scientists to change the terms they used to describe global warming.

If there were any imminent danger I wouldn't find it here..

The sun does not have 400 million years of fuel. That would be 4.6 billion years, estimated, of course. Astronomers estimate that the sun is middle-aged, or 4.6 billion years old.

The terms global warming and climate change are essentially synonymous. It is the warming of the atmosphere that is resulting in rising temps. I think you all need a reminder of what the term greenhouse gas means. These are gasses that essentially act like glass panes. They trap more solar energy than they allow to radiate back out. Thus, when the sun is up, the green house heats up. The average temp. rise for the planet is in the range of a couple degrees farenheit. That global atmospheric temp. shift CAUSES the changes in climate. The term climate change is more accurate for the (idiot) layman because the overall increase in global heat retention causes a shift in the climate, or the thing we recognize as "weather". Warmer air holds more water, which is why the green house is humid. Warmer overall temperatures does not necessarily translate into milder winters and hotter summers. It means more moisture is held in the atmosphere. Meaning juicier storms and stronger weather patterns. Think about the simmering pot of water on the stove. When you turn the heat up a bit, you add heat energy to the system. the water becomes more "active" - starts to boil. The molecules of the water are excited by the heat.

Scientists can only predict what may happen as the increased atmospheric temps. start to noticably impact the climate. The global system is incredibly complex. It is mind-numbingly simplistic to think the snow on the ground is proof that global warming does not exist.

As to solar flares, this flare was an M-Class flare. It could cause some problems, but it is the X-Class flare that pops in the direction of the earth that astonomers worry about. And, that X-Class flare is a matter of when, not if. It will cause massive disruption to the power grid. Think of an M-Class flare like a rain storm. The X-Class flare is more like the hurricane. Relatively rare in our lifetimes, but common on a geological timescale, and much more energetic. We are overdue for an X-Class flare, which I believe happen on average, every 100 years or so. We have not experienced an X-Class event since the energy grid (and satellites) have been established.

Humankind would not have noticed the results of an X-Class flare, other than the flareup of the Northern lights in places where it is rarely seen, when there was no electricity. But now that we rely so heavily on electricity, an X-Class flare will not go unnoticed!

The mayans didnt even see the end of themselves (via Conquistadors). I wouldnt put to much stock in the end-of-the-world thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjF8fk6hjZE

Solar Maximum

Survival checklist

Tin Foil Hat-check

Six month supply of MRE's- check

Two year supply of canned food- check

Two cases of ammunition for pistol, rifle and shotgun-check

Med-kit-check

Guitar Strings-check

Tool kit-check

Teddy Bear-check (I can't sleep without my binky)

Well, that looks like about it. I think I'm ready for the flare-pocalypse.

Ooops I forgot a couple of things.

Water Purification kit-check

150 cases of Newcastle Dark Ale-check

A case of Trojans (in case any women survive) - check

NOW I'm ready.

Jim Ca. is that anything like Obama changing War On Terror to Man made disasters?

Skip - I like your list, but don't forget a tube of sunscreen. I recommend the Neutragena SPF 70. And maybe some extra tinfoil, just in case. Oh, and an opener for the Newcastle (they aren't twistoffs).

Sorry folks, I do believe my common road flare (though short lived) won the contest. Cf post #1.12. Probably not in the best location to make an adequate comparison anyways.

Skip - does Marti know you are not expecting her to survive? If you drink all that Dark Ale, you won't need no Trojans - cuz nothing works on a 60 year old man with that much booze in him.

I was going to ask God to attack OKC first for stealing our Sonics - but since you're a lib, I think he'll make an exception.

Sarcasticus - the votes don't lie - you got smoked (by a fart)....don't quit your day job.

1surrviivor are you Ralph The Cat dude? Wanta burn one man? Put some snow in the bong man.

I think I had a coronal mass ejection in the shower this morning

if people just stopped flying,i know that will not happen.but where i live just about every plane goes over heading for europe.after 911 i got to see what our sky should be.

Go to Landjut.

David,

Glad to see you are back.

JW

To MSpielman:

Was the person 'who once tried to convince you, there would be a Carrington Event in 2012-2013,' named NASA?

It can destroy Gillette stadium for all I care. What a disgusting AFC Championship. Is there any way for both teams to lose?

LMAO....Could NOT agree more. Thugs and Cheaters play for the AFC title, great.

Doubtful, very doubtful!!!!!! GO GIANTS!!!!!!

Someone collapsed my comment?

Someone just cannot handle the truth!

That's pathetic.

There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with brent guthrie's post cheering for the Baltimore Ravens. In light of the other 'stuff' I have seen posted, this comment did not deserve to be collapsed. GO GIANTS!!!!!!!

Did you mean the New York Giants or the "Newest" NFL SF Giants that Biden has created. Ha!

Now there's a guy's who's Comedy. He needs to be hit by the Solar Phenonemen and put his "out of touch" comments back to reality.

Sounds like we may need federal funding to study the problem.

Ha!! Too bad we broke as a joke!!

If electricity is not flowing through the grid, then it will be left fairly unharmed.

If electricity is not flowing through the grid, then it will be left fairly unharmed.

no, the charged particles and the flexing of the magnetosphere will induce currents in the cross-country wires , they will generate their own electricity and fry

Mr. Fungi

We need three super committees and at least as many czars. Oh, and add at least one trillion dollars to figure it out. I'll be waiting for the memo in a billion years or two... or three... or maybe four or five.

If you look at Mayan history, they were astronomers who based their oh-so-renowned calendar on the movements of Venus and Saturn and solar flares and such. The Mayans detected these shifts and motions over a long period of time and based that calendar on what they charted.

People worrying over this kind of reminds me of the Y2K hysteria. To combat panic, the Mayan Council has said repeatedly that people shouldn't expect a cataclysm when the 5th Age ends later this year. It's like swapping out your old calendar for a new one at the beginning of the year, only instead of counting groups of days and months, this calendar counts groups of years and groups of those groups.

Paul -

Might even get some lights here in NM. The northern lights are usually pretty good this time of year in Alaska. Bet they'll be spectacular the next couple of days.

Hope so. I've never seen them.

Brian...it will probably be a couple days or so before the effects of the CME hit the Earth. With that being said, I'd say your best chance of seeing anything would be over the weekend...ie, Sunday into Monday. At least that is what the forecast models are showing.

Glad I live in Florida. Hopefully our grid holds up, but if it doesn't, its warm and there are plenty of fish.

Paul very true. This one will be mild but a severe EMP would do just what you said-we depend on electricity and electronics. As you said, all modern cars have electronic components which could get knocked out.

Myself, I have prepared for quite some time. Dry goods, wood, etc., Best be prepared than not. Solar activity is ramping up after a long dormant period. Look it up.

Hey Cirnobyl. How are those gulf fish with a hint of petroleum working out for you. Better left off the barbeque.

Bouncer I wonder how long a strong enough solar flare would bombard our systems? I also wonder if there is a way we could protect our cars? Would them not running at the time of solar disruption keep their circuitry from being fried? What about cars parked in closed garages at the time of bombardment?

Ah - your car, if it has electronic components will not start; ditto your phone. Now, if you have a pre-computer use car and a rotary phone, things still will function. Shouldn't have any problem with fuel shortages.... ;)

I have a rotary phone that I have kept for over 50 years and it works fine. But no on the pre-computer car. Geez there must be some way to keep the cars from being fried. Garage it cover it with some material not run it.

I also have food vacuumed beans rice and dried fruits and milk. I have a vent free fireplace and stove that does not need electricity to run. What I don't have is a precomputer auto. What year did they start making computer run cars?

fight for freedom-2341533 - But no on the pre-computer car. Geez there must be some way to keep the cars from being fried.

Disconnect the car battery days ahead of time to drain the electrolytic storage capacitors (that provide power for memory like time, date, radio presets, etc. until the car battery is reconnected). Get a six foot long metal rod and pound that into the ground (100% Grounding) attach a large diameter wire to the vehicle body and the metal rod in the ground (something like a jumper cable diameter (low ohmage)). That six foot metal rod is what we still use to ground really big US Military Electric Power Generators. We also used the six foot metal rods during Operation Hotel California at post#1.19.

As far as protection while driving the current computerized pin ball machines (vehicles), nope (beyond your costs).

add to post#14.10.

Forgot something important use a ohm volt meter set on ohms to check that you have 100% connection between the vehicle and the grounding rod.

You may not want to even use a car if things go down for a few days. Best bet would be to Pre-buy the supplies and hunker down at home. If you were to leave the house, your neighbors might break in and help themselves.

I have stuff put away too...but I keep that to myself. Maybe someone will hit the market with a special car cover with a painted-on lead to protect it from the damaging radiation. Or can we just remove and wrap the battery?

http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html

fight, the solar flare would have to be at a very high magnitude and it is very possible that the solar activity will increase significantly during the period 2012-13. Our electrical and electronic grid is not hardened thus vulnerable.

I have looked into the subject of Deep Underground Military Bases for quite some time. The Denver Airport is quite unusual in that it presents many coded symbols in its murals and other designs and art. If looked from above the runways look like a swastika.

Why is that significant? We see swastika symbols on canyon walls in the Southwest and the Whirling Logs of the Navajos looks like a swastika. You see the same symbol in Tibet. If you look at a diagram of a solar wind it looks like a swastika...

Were the swastikas a warning of a future solar event? There is suggestion that the Denver airport is a gateway to the underground cities which were started 60 years ago. Does NASA and FEMA know something that they don't want the general public to know? Are the symbols at the Denver airport coded symbols to those in the know?

There are reports that these underground cities are a mile deep. Why would they be so deep? Shielding?

I've been looking into this subject since the early 90s. These underground tunnels and cities were created by huge boring machines, all work done underground. For the elect?

Many scoff, laugh at this. That's fine. But if you start digging, researching, an amazing connect the dots pattern starts to emerge...

mightyHud, doesn't it take electronics (power) to not only make the gas, but to pump it? How about getting it delivered? I gotta say, this vine is very funny today. I hope most of it is just for fun. I am surprised no one has air planes and satellites raining down on us yet.

Bouncer,

I don't think any of this has to be sinister, but we do know that the military does harden a lot of their equipment and installations to be resistant to EMP.

Are there secret underground facilities? I say pretty likely and of course if you told everybody, it wouldn't be secret. A mile or more deep sounds a bit extreme though as the heat that you would have to deal with would be pretty significant. Not impossible, but it would likely require some significant surface infrastructure to support it. More likely a hardened facility at depth which has more normal ambient temperature. You'd want to keep power demands at a minimal level. Most likely nuclear powered, but it would need to be a relatively small efficient design simply because of cooling requirements you'd have to deal with.

It only makes sense to provide for some governing capabilities in the event of either a deliberate EMP attack or one triggered by a natural phenomena like large solar flares. With the power grid down and most electronics destroyed, things would get pretty dicey in just a couple days. Cities would be unlivable.

I see no logic to coded symbols. The people who would need to find these would know exactly where they are. Even without GPS and such, celestial navigation has worked for centuries and would still work. No need to identify an airport with symbols, they'd find it. Many better ways like hidden geographical "anomalies" that aren't obvious. For example, facility number 537 could easily be identified by a triangulated pattern using natural landmarks. Very easy to do and virtually undetectable unless you knew what you were looking for. Coded symbols would be pretty childish and would only serve as some clue that would otherwise be totally unnecessary.

I've read some interesting theories and although there is some potential credibility to it, you have to consider that in order to keep this kind of thing secret, you can't let too many people know about it. As these facilities get extremely large in both size and scope you need a lot of people to build them. That is a flaw that gives too many people knowledge of it. If a lot of people know, eventually it will leak out. It may be possible to do it, but the work efforts almost need to be disguised as something else to avoid any suspicion. A lot of these secret conspiracy theories often miss the logical question of how you keep it secret. Not impossible, but it isn't at all easy.

I'm not too disturbed by the possibility and would be more disturbed about us not taking such measures into consideration. I just think it is overblown. You wouldn't need massive underground cities. Just enough to provide adequate security and capabilities for maybe 1000-2000 people tops. A dozen small facilities could do that pretty easily. Think practical vs. Sci Fi fantastic.

I saw an aurora in Arizona once, many years ago

David and Bouncer thanks for the information. David I don't think your being paranoid etc. Anyone who thinks our Elite corporate owned government is thinking of out welfare in a survival situation is just being naive. However I would love to be wrong on that one. I am going to do more research on what needs to be done. I have clean fresh water throughout my neighborhood but with the possibility of radiation poisoning (if it were a factor) my 600 foot well would be my best way to get clean water. I have thought about solar and wind but both are computerized. I guess I need to look for some other way to generate electricity. I have seen people actually have a bicycle set up that generated electricity. I do wonder if this new electro magnetic generators that are being talked about (they run by permanent magnets turning the wheel which generates electricity.) if they would be affected by these solar flares?

Paul,

The 1859 event is pretty interesting. Sadly we have no real measurement of just how strong it was, but you can make some reasonable guesses based on all the observed phenomena. The solar flares were actually observed and documented, but the actual energy levels that hit the planet were not measured. All indications are that it was huge and if it occurred today it would be devastating to our infrastructure. Chances are that prior to that, many similar events occurred, but beyond the atmospheric observations, they probably went mainly unnoticed. The problem is that today we are much more reliant on things that are highly susceptible.

As to a few other comments here. Having a rotary phone won't help you too much considering the electronic central office equipment will be useless. If you have two, you could probably create a private intercom system with a neighbor, but you don't need a phone to do that.

As to protecting your vehicle. Disconnecting the battery and grounding the vehicle really won't do very much. This isn't like a lightning strike. It is much more like an extremely high energy level radio signal. I remember years ago, I had a neighbor who had an illegally jacked up CB radio and he would use it late at night to take advantage of skip. He came in loud and clear over my unplugged stereo. Simply the induced currents powered the amplifiers and the sound would come out the speakers sounding like he was standing in the room. Pretty weird, but more common than you might think. If you hear static on your car radio or hear a buzz near high tension power lines, this is much the same principle taking place. Just at a pretty low level. An EMP is a burst of this type energy at enormously higher levels. Current is induced in just about any conductor circuits. The very small and intensely "wired" circuits used in electronics will make great antennas for catching this signal and inducing currents in them. The problem is that these circuits can't take very much current before they vaporize. They don't need to be powered and simply trying to drain the currents off to ground will not work. For may years, hobbyists made something called a crystal radio. No power, just circuits. These were and still are usable devices to pick up radio signals. And keep in mind that typical radio signals are comparatively at minuscule energy levels.

If you are going to protect your vehicle, you pretty much need to turn your garage into a well designed Faraday cage and even then, it has limitations. Sure, inside a metal building would be better than outside on your driveway, but if the pulse is large enough, even that won't help much. Shielding is the key and absorbing and channeling the energy is the desired approach. True that with a very low level pulse, having no current in the circuits to start with would possibly help just a little bit, but if the pulse is high enough to destroy power lines and transformers, you're pretty much going to out of luck. Hardening electronics against EMP involves multiple layers of shielding. It all has to do with what energy level is expected. Some things might survive while other get destroyed depending on the energy levels involved. The best you can do is slightly reduce your susceptibility and hope you get lucky.

And when you're eating the fish from the Gulf of Mexico, remember President Obama's administration advised when the oil rig blew that, 'noone has ever suffered any ill effects from ingesting less than 1 cup per day of motor oil'

Do your part for Obama's Green America and drink your daily cup of motor oil, its for the environment

http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/jesse-ventura-secret-underground-military-bases-designed-for-2012-and-economic-collapse-denver-airport/

New Day- I have researched this topic way before this video was done and my research accelerated while I was writing my second novel.

The boring machines for one evolved into some which vitrify walls. Most deep underground cities are in the West/SW US where rock is more plentiful. Continuation of government is one reason-the elect, those worth saving like scientists, well known artists, VIPs, is another. The scope is huge.

Now if confronted, the government will belittle, ridicule, talk down, dis-inform relating to these sites. Intimidation will be used. You, Joe Sixpack won't have a "passport" to these sites. Only special people.

I've been looking into this since the early 90s. Research, and you might find out something.

Newday- how to keep people from talking-intimidation. When you are briefed, and have to sign a non disclosue statement and further briefed on the dire consequences of revealing anything you will not talk. I've been there. It is very skillfully done.

They will have quite a surprise when they come out and have to deal with the survivors like me who will un-elect them and throw them in jail.

Bouncer,

I've done more than a little research on this too and being an engineer I have a pretty good understanding of the technical issues involved. I will also tell you the the West is hardly exclusive to these sites. In fact the very geologically stable MidWest very likely has a handful of these. Research Kokomo Indiana. Coincidentally located very close to an old airforce base, Grissom Field, which is now cut back considerably in it's activity remaining primarily as a base for refueling aircraft. I know some people from the area and the list of strange things that have gone on in the area defy coincidence.

I also know about some sites that have been built for underground storage of natural gas and propane. These are areas where the rock is carved out with boring machines and similar techniques. Located near refineries, as one might expect and with secure and isolated above ground sections away from prying eyes. Of course if you're storing these highly volatile materials, they need to be isolated from the general public. Do these really serve as the storage areas they claim to be? Who can be sure? But that's what the workers built, or at least that's what they think they built. Maybe at a given site they constructed 10 chambers for storage and most of them are used for just that, but maybe a couple of them have another purpose.

That said, I think all this needs to be kept in proper context. People who write about this stuff can't resist jumping to illogical conclusions that often defy physics and what is possible and what isn't. In fact, it is taking these reports to the fantastic that destroys the credibility. But the more fantastic you nake it sound, the more attention you get. I am not saying that some truth doesn't exist in these reports, however, there is a lot of exaggeration too. If you have the appropriate knowledge, the exaggerations can be pretty obvious. Who knows, maybe some of that is part of the cover. Today we know pretty clearly that back in the 50s, all the UFO hype around Area 51 was part of the cover for all the testing taking place.

And yes, none of this stuff is being done so Joe Sixpack has somewhere to go. That shouldn't come as a shock to anyone, nor is it something devious. Lets face it, the Patriot act and all the DHS activities are not about protecting the Joe Sixpacks of the country. This is all about protecting government, which in turn, (at least in theory), protects the citizens by its continued existence. National security is not necessarily about protecting the citizens, it's about protecting the nation, which in reality is the organized government. This is really just common sense and if you think otherwise, you're living in a dream world. But then the government leaders aren't about to brag about this stuff either, especially when they are using taxpayer dollars to pay for it.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying you need to carefully and intelligently pick through the data. Some of it is very likely true, however a lot of it is dead wrong. I think you have accepted some things as fact, which are actually illogical and improbable exaggeration. The mile deep and coded symbols are classic examples of this.

New Day, my background is nursing-I'm an RN, no engineer background. However I have learned quite a lot during my research, and I'm glad that there can be some dialogue relating to these Deep Underground Military Bases.

I believe they exist. There are huge boring machines which can bore through rock and the combination of blasting can create underground cavities which can in turn be transformed into small communities. Power can be supplied by small nuclear reactors cooled by other means than water. Tunnels can be easily bored to connect these communities which are in geologically stable areas. Areas where this activity goes on like at Area 51 in Nevada are tightly watched with orders to shoot on sight any trespassers daring to enter. Other areas exist.

The Denver Airport in quite interesting. several levels of construction were undertaken. A huge cavity housing buildings were built then covered-then, another set of contractors were hired on and on to completion. What those buried building are for is unknown. A portal to the underground communities? Of course speculation. But I suspect the Denver Airport is a portal, a gateway-to include a hub which requires a stockage of fuel way in excess of a normal airport. If you start picking apart this place many weird facts surface which cannot be explained logically.

The Denver Airport puzzles are way numerous and beyond the scope of this post. The underground projects are also beyond what can be discussed here. But when you connect the dots you discover a strange puzzle emerging.

I also believe that NASA and FEMA know more than they are letting on. Obviously, to keep the general public stupid. The less thay know the better. If you look at continuity of government you will have a large part of the population sacrificed. If you build arks underground you also need blue collar workers as well. The elite, like select scientists, artists, VIPs the elect of our society will also have "passports" to continue. Joe Sixpack and Jane are expendable.

Unfortunately, as Ventura states in his Video, Joe Sixpack and Jane will be left to their own devices without even the gift of a flashlight by the US Government! So long Sixpack, you're on your own.

Awareness as to what is going on is important so that people can research, observe and document. One way is to observe these hubs for increased military and civilian traffic. Public awareness will trigger questions. Probes will become embarassing. But forcing dialogue is important to get to the bottom of what is going on.

Bouncer,

Just watched your link. Jesse Ventura? Come on! Watch it again. When Jesse is talking to his inside contacts they clearly say MidWest, not West. So Jesse ends up in Denver? Got news for you, Colorado is not in the Midwest.

Also they say the largest facility is 300,000 square feet. That is pretty small, hardly an underground city. That's less than 7 acres. Minuscule. The necessary support facilities would easliy eat up well over half that space leaving relatively little left over. I would estimate that a facility this size wouldn't be able to support and sustain more than 100 people tops for an extended duration. And watch other segments, the concrete "tunnels". That's just pretty standard concrete duct, not even high strength. Pretty commonly used as utility ducts for things like water and electricity in any large facility. The square designed duct has very little structural strength. You wouldn't bury this at any depth to speak of or under any high weight traffic area. And the so called "mountain" of dirt? Actually looked very small for an airport.

I enjoy Jesse Ventura, but most of his stuff has very little credibility and is full of flaws. I have little doubt that the very core basis of the story, (that underground government facilities have been built), is indeed somewhat factual. But to take it to Denver Airport is ludicrous. None of his supporting "evidence" stands up to even mild scrutiny.

Jesse is an entertainer with strong political beliefs and I believe him to be, for the most part, sincere. But he isn't particularly bright. I agree with a lot of his basically progressive political views, but I think that he has a tendency to take things to the extreme. Remember, Jesse said that 9/11 was an inside job done with planned explosive demolition. The problem with guys like him is that they tend to see conspiracies in just about everything. They are so anxious for that conspiracy to exist that they overlook logic and common sense analysis. Take the 9/11 thing. The building collapses did look a lot like a controlled demolition. However, it was simply a spectacular display of simple physics. Controlled demolition exploits that physics and uses it to do its work. That doesn't mean that every such example of that physics is therefore controlled demolition.

I hate to say it, but pointing to a Jesse Ventura peice as credible evidence is really a stretch.

From the article "M-class flares are capable of causing brief radio blackouts near the poles as well as minor radiation storms, but it's unlikely that this one will disrupt communication or power transmission networks. The forecast would be different if it were an X-class storm heading our way."

As I am no astronomer, or physics expert, I don't know the magnitude difference. We can only guess at what the actual difference would be. We have all seen solar flares over the last years, but without some comparison, it is difficult to actually judge the resultant damage.

As a former electrician, and NBC defense officer in the military, I do understand EMP and the damage it can do. As solar flares are similar, in some ways, I can see the risk to the general population and their properties. But, to what extent, sorry folks.

Everything I have seen pointed at in the Denver Airport construction is completely consistent with normal construction of large facilities. Trust me, I've been involved in lots of them. And the thing about different contractors is 100% completely normal. Often big contracts are broken up that way. There are different skills and expertise involved in the construction aspects of such a facility. Nothing at all unusual about that. As to the fuel storage, considering where it is at and the nature of an airport, it isn't so out of line. It might be different if it were in an area well served by refineries. Colorado has only one small refinery in the entire State. Lots of geographical issues that make pipelines and transport difficult. It might be a large fuel storage in other areas, but not so where it is at. And as you suggested, the underground facility would most likely use nuclear power, not oil based energy. I understand, that for the average everyday citizen, some of these things seem unexplainable, but that's usually due to a lack of the appropriate knowledge. Years ago, everybody thought you would fall off the edge of the earth because based on their knowledge, it made sense. Denver Airport is barking up the wrong tree.

You have to sift through a lot of junk as you research. I agree there is a lot out there, but some reports indicate way larger facilities than was described in the Ventura Video.

Again sifting. I sift a lot but one thing is very true in that video that the Denver Airport stocks way more fuel than it needs for normal operations. Other little tidbits emerged as well-got to sift what is important and what isin't.

On the book side, one should read One Second After a novel about a man made EMP strike and what would happen afterwards. The book is not perfect but brings up some interesting points relating to what an EMP would do. The resulting cascade of events are not pretty and the book does bring up our vulnerabilities relating to EMP.

When I researched for my first novel about nuclear terrorism on a cruise ship I had to sift through a lot of facts to include nuclear weapons. Fiction has solid roots in fact which makes fiction more credible. However, sifting through a lot of junk relating to underground facilities, some credible "gold flakes" remained behind making the case of underground projects by the US credible in my mind.

As far as the sun is concerned, it is ramping up from its slumber with more activity predicted for 2012-2013. To what extent no one knows. What occurs in the sun affects the earth. Some puzzling things such as birds going off course and beaching of dolphins intrigue me. A lot of what happens on the sun is still unknown and its effects may have subtle effects as well with animals and also tectonics. I think that the so called global warming is not man made at all but is directly related to the sun. It would be interesting to track what happens on earth after an X flare event or for that matter any solar event minor as it may be.

Bouncer,

I think it is good that you question things and agree that some fiction is rooted in some factual information. A lot of seemingly strange things happen, but very often they have logical explanations if you look for them. We live in a world where science and physics rule. Always. But the voice of people's conclusions sometimes drown out science.

And yes, a significant EMP would be hugely destructive. Our infrastructure is not adequately hardened. The problem isn't so much that lots of things will blow up, but that many of the things we count on working for our daily survival could become totally useless in very brief event. Metropolitan areas would likely be overtaken with chaos quite quickly. A large EMP wouldn't kill people directly but a lot of casualties could result because of its impacts.

EMP is just one hazard of solar events. Solar flares generate an enormously wide spectrum of electromagnetic energy. The reason we get some level of warning about EMP hazards is that some other very destructive energy forms reach us far quicker than EMP activity. Some of these high energy photons and particles travel very close to light speed. Our early warning system on board satellites actually look for and detect these things. The Sun is just one source of these energy bombardments. Astronauts have actually observed some classes of these as streaks of light they could see with their eyes closed as these particles/photons shot through their heads. Some of these get rejected by the atmosphere, but some forms of this energy can be detected in the deepest mines in highly shielded equipment. How dangerous are these? We don't really know completely. We do know that as these pass through your body, they leave a trail of destroyed and damaged cells. But then millions of cells are dying of "natural causes" all the time. We do know that at high levels, this stuff can be deadly.

As for global warming. True, natural events associated with the Sun can cause climate change and have throughout the history of the planet. However, to deny the effects of man's contribution to climate change is sticking your head in the sand and denying sound science. Denying man's influence on climate change is confusing facts with fiction. Does that fiction have some little flakes of fact associated with it? Yes, but the overwhelming logical, scientific facts shouldn't be discounted for the fiction. Global warming or more accurately climate change is not a conspiracy, but man has a very real impact.

I understand why you enjoy this stuff and a tendency to see conspiracy is probably very handy for the creativity required to write fiction. I love good fiction and enjoy the sci-fi stuff when well done, but I don't confuse fact and fiction. Science can't explain everything, but it comes very close, it just isn't always immediately obvious. I'm trying hard not to sound disrespectful of your opinions as I am at least encouraged when Isee others trying to understand the mysteries of our world. A lot of the public just accepts fantastical explanations without question. Just look at the low number of comments on this article. Sadly, there is very small interest in the topic. A lot of people like to assign strange things they don't understand to some mystical evil force or some conspiratorial group out to get them.

Being doubtful is a good quality because it makes you think for yourself, but you need to be selective about what you doubt and whether or not you are accepting an illogical explanation while ignoring proven facts. Government conspiracies are popular in this country because we have evolved and attitude where we don't trust goverment. But when you think about it a bit, there are few politicians really capable of designing such conspiracies as are often credited to them. Politicians don't come from the world of science. A lot of politicians think that denying science is good politics. The problem as I see it is that Americans have become some of the most stupid people in a modern society. We look down on intelligent people, and we love to reject science if it says something we don't want to hear. We believe what we want to believe, mainly because we don't know any better. Conspiracy theories garner far more attention than science. Very sad but true. I only hope that when someone gets attracted by some conspiracy story, it awakens an interest to learn more and learn how to do good logical analysis.

They would not fall any differently than normal. Good to hear a positive take on "disaster job creation".

Need electricity to power them tools, with a Carrington event, the lines will fry

There is an insurance company with an ad showing a dropping space capsule and attending monkey. So folks are making money off that space debris idea already.

kitty say vote Ron PAul

Need electricity to power them tools, with a Carrington event, the lines will fry

the lines are easier to replace than those big, high voltage transformers

Liberty, Freedom, and take care of yourself and family. God Bless.

and your kitty. so protect him with a foil hat!

Ron

Pauls friend made me this hat for the coming disaster...

Where is your boyfriend tonight Nick?

Use armadillo shells: they're "green" technology!

foiled again!!!

Sadly, even I am considering a foil hat for my self, my cats and my PC. Shows how close to the edge we can go.

Got my s'mores ready to go!

hope they have a copy of great balls of fire....

I'll be waiting

Need to take a nap right now though

oh, and tylor, everythings on file. three part carbon copies.

OH NOOOOO!

This just in, a memo from Chicken Little.

THE SKY IS FALLING. WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!

Think I'll stock up on duct tape.