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James Tabor / UNCC
A replica of the "Jonah Fish" bone box, on display at Discovery Times Square in New York, shows a fishlike figure on the left side of the box's front. Small fish figures are inscribed in a border along the top of the box. The right side of the box's front is incomplete because that area was obscured by an adjacent bone box.
The debate over a 1st-century "Jesus Discovery" tomb that may, or may not, contain the earliest known evidence of Christian iconography has taken on some of the fervor of a holy war, with some scriptural scholars protesting what they see as the "Da Vinci Codification" of modern culture.
The controversy focused on whether a fishlike figure carved into one of the limestone bone boxes from the Jerusalem tomb was really meant to be a fish — or something else. It's a key point, because fish have historically been seen as early Christian symbols, and such symbols have not previously been found on Jerusalem bone boxes.
"The 'Jonah Fish' is just the next installment in the Jesus-archaeology franchise — timed, as always, to precede a major Christian feast," Steven Fine, director of Yeshiva University's Center for Israel Studies, complained in a posting to the ASOR Blog, which is published by the American Schools of Oriental Research. "I, for one, am wearied by the almost yearly 'teaching moment' presented by these types of 'discoveries.' I am hopeful, however, that — this time — a forceful and quick display of unanimous dissent by the leading members of the academic community will be taken seriously by the media and the public at large."
The underground chamber, known as the Patio Tomb because it lies beneath the patio of a present-day condo building, was explored a couple of years ago with the aid of a camera-equipped robotic arm. The project came into the global spotlight this week with the publication of "The Jesus Discovery," a book about the finds made there.
A documentary TV show, reportedly titled "The Resurrection Tomb," is due to air on the Discovery Channel this spring. It's not yet clear whether that show will be broadcast around the time of Easter Sunday, which falls on April 8 this year (April 15 for Orthodox Christians).
Discovery Times Square
In addition to the "Jonah Fish" bone box, investigators examined a different limestone bone box that had an inscription scrawled in the central area of the front face. They interpreted the third line of the inscription as referring to "lifting up" or resurrection. Such a reference could be read as a statement of faith. This is a replica of the casket that is on display at Discovery Times Square in New York.
This week's claims about the Christian character of the bone boxes seen in the Patio Tomb have attracted sharp criticism from outside experts. The tone of the debate has become so sharp that one of the scriptural scholars behind the discovery, James Tabor of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, appealed today for an end to the "personal innuendos and ugly charges about greed and corruption."
"I ask my fellow bloggers in our field to circulate this call for a change in our tone and approach to one another," he wrote on his own blog. "Enough is enough. ..."
One of Tabor's partners in the tomb study is Rami Arav, an Israeli-born archaeologist at the University of Nebraska at Omaha who has directed excavations in Israel for more than two decades. Arav told me today that the controversy over the findings was not unexpected.
"Whenever you make a pioneering discovery ... there will always be questions about the interpretation of what you see, particularly when things are not unequivocal," he said. "My philosophy in this kind of thing is that a good theory ... is elegant and solves more problems than it creates."
Bebeto Matthews / AP
Biblical scholar James Tabor glances over at replicas of two bone boxes found in Jerusalem's Patio Tomb during a Tuesday news conference at Discovery Times Square. A camera-equipped robotic arm like the one seen here was used to examine the boxes remotely.
Believing a fish story
For some, the claims about the "Jonah Fish" constitute a big problem. Tabor, Arav and another partner, documentary filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici, have suggested that the figure alludes to the biblical story of the prophet Jonah, who was swallowed by a sea creature and vomited up alive three days later. That story held extra significance for Christians, who believed Jesus died on the cross and rose from his tomb on the third day.
The critics of the "Jesus Discovery" team say they're not swallowing the fish story. Instead, they maintain that the figure depicts a type of funerary pillar or tower, known as a "nephesh tower," or perhaps an amphora or vase. Some experts included pictures from other bone boxes, showing nephesh towers with pointed roofs.
Arav and Tabor said they had considered the interpretation of the picture as a tower or a vase, but decided that the fish made more sense. "If we suggest it could have been a tower, then we would have to put the ossuary upside down," Arav said. "This doesn't have any precedent, and I think this is even more problematic than saying it is a fish."
The team's video examination of the box also spotted several small, simple fish figures carved into an ornamental border around the main figure.
"It creates problems which I indeed don't think are problems," Arav said. "We know that the Jonah motif appears later on, but that doesn't mean that it began later on. This is not a real problem."
Jacobovici told me that he put the picture to the "Mishi test," named after his 5-year-old daughter. When he heard that some experts were suggesting that the picture showed a tower, he called Mishi over to take a look. "I said, 'What do you see here, sweetie?' She looks very intense, and says, 'A person inside a fish?'" Jacobovici recalled. "It passed the Mishi test."
Why fuss over a fish?
What difference does it make whether the picture shows a fish or a tower? The eventual outcome of the debate could have a big impact on the course of biblical archaeology. If the iconography is determined to be Christian, that would lend much more significance to what otherwise might be seen as a run-of-the-mill Jewish tomb.
What's more, Tabor and Jacobovici contend that the discovery of a Christian tomb strengthens their far more controversial claim, first made in 2007, that bone boxes in a nearby tomb might contain the earthly remains of Jesus and members of his family. The investigators reached that conclusion based on the names inscribed on the boxes, and their similarity to the names listed in biblical accounts of Jesus' brothers and sisters. Tabor says additional studies published since 2007 have strengthened his case, but other scholars are unconvinced.
Arav isn't getting involved in the debate over the "Jesus Family Tomb." But he does want to return to the Patio Tomb and go beyond the fishy debate. "We did non-invasive research in this place, and we discovered what we discovered," Arav said. "But we need also to do some invasive research."
Current estimates suggest that the Patio Tomb was used sometime between 20 B.C. and A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans. Arav would like to get a better sense of the date, and perhaps run DNA tests on the remains "to see if they are associated with groups of people that we know of." It might also be possible to run tests on a cooking pot that was brought out from the tomb years ago, "to see what was offered to the dead," he said.
"There are a lot of things that hard science can help us with," Arav observed. "There are a lot of things to do."
More about bone boxes and biblical archaeology:
- New find revives 'Jesus Tomb' debate
- Doubts voiced about the 'Jesus Discovery'
- 2007: Claims about Jesus' tomb stir up a tempest
- Ancient bone box might point to Caiaphas' home
- Gallery: The archaeology of Christianity
Replicas of bone boxes from the Patio Tomb and the Jesus Family Tomb are on display at Discovery Times Square in New York City, which is also hosting an exhibit about the Dead Sea Scrolls and daily life in biblical times. The exhibit runs through April 15.
Alan Boyle is msnbc.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter or adding Cosmic Log's Google+ page to your circle. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for other worlds.
Leave a Comment:
If an upside down fish throwing up represents Jonah & Christianity couldn't we assume that the wall with a window represents a ride-tru window at a fast food joint or an early bank ATM?
Too little information to be assuming something because someone wants to see it. A fish is decorative art, without words it is meaningless
This is nothing but people seeing what they want to see. Why does it make more sense for this to be a depiction of a fish swimming straight down as opposed to any of the other possibilities. I just do not buy it. Aren't fish usually depicted as swimming to the right or the left, not doing a headstand!!! To me this could just as easily be a vase or some other symbol. I also do not see this supposed figure of a man being thrown up from the fish's mouth. Also, the words "lifting up" that they are claiming refers to resurrection could just as easily be referring to the soul rising up to heaven. Finally the idea that some highly suggestive little girl seeing what daddy wants her to see lend no credibility what-so-ever to the claims, we all know how little girls like to make their daddy happy.
The "Jesus ossuary" was debunked years ago and these "researchers" are just trying to rehash old ground by using another find which they can not relate to the other tomb in any way. The area is riddled with tombs, so making a connection between two tombs that have no physical connection to each other is a huge stretch and is pure conjecture with no facts to back it up. This is the worst kind of junk science with people seeing hat they want to see. Researchers are supposed to approach things from a completely unbiased position and use fact to form their theories. What these researches are doing is using their theories and making up questionable "facts" to support them.
JS... the same is theories are applied to science every day. If scientists never challenged or questioned themselves, we wouldn't know as much as we do today in any area of science. Let them 'rehash' if they want to.
Well, Alan, you are really pandering on this one. THREE STORIES on the non-troversy? Really? Seriously?
Now for my two cents worth. Now that we see a replica of the box in context I think the big "Fish" looks more like a "Nefresh" because it's standing on what would be the fish's nose. I'm going with "Nefresh" on that one. But the fish symbols along the top DO look like the Christian "fish" we see on bumpers all over town. That, to me, is more significant than the "Nefresh" fish.
Very interesting find and discussion.
But PUH-LEEEZE, enough is enough. This bunch does not need any new excuses to poor vitriol all over each other.
Have a great weekend.
LOL
If that little girl saw a person inside a fish then she either needs her eyes checked or she's a little retarded. The carving only faintly resembles a fish, and I don't see anything that looks like any other depiction of a person from that era.
its a mermaid...
Maybe it's an old McFish take-out container?
Seriously, who gives a $hit. Let them waste their time digging into something that they will never conclusively solve.
It's all a MYTH !!
.
Nice fishing tackle box!
Now we are debating fantasy. Who cares, there will never be nor can there ever be any real answer, just mans interpretation. How do I know the BuyBull tell me so.
In this case, it is not fantasy. Christianity did and does exist. That is not fantasy, it is historical fact -- and one that has played a huge role in the development of Western culture whether you like it or not. The debate with this tomb in particular and this ossuary is whether or not they are part of that Christian tradition, which could help pinpoint the start of that very real tradition. That is why this is relevant. As for the so-called tomb of Jesus next door -- that is where you enter the realm of possible fantasy. Although there is an argument to be made that there was a historical Jesus (and that is worth investigating), that does not mean the historical Jesus really was who the bible says he was or that he did what the bible said he did. That is something else entirely.
Bottom line: Just because something relates to Christianity does not inherently make it fictitious. Just be careful not to trip over your prejudices, ok?
Leave it to the media to start "diverson" between the religions. I thought the main target was "class warfare".
LMAO it has been religions who have been diverting the truth for thousands of years. The religious are the ones who are divisive. Religions are the ones who segregate people. Religions divide.
The babble is full of lies and hatred and contradictions. Jesus never existed because it was a man made myth to control people!
I think that it's pretty clear that Jesus was a real person. It is all of the fantastic stories about him that are a bunch of crap.
They're trying to identify a real life artifact... With a fairy tale? Why do I get the feeling this "archaeologist" is also a dentist and a lawyer...?
Thank you for your BIGOTRY, anti-Christian flavor
You really want people to think you're persecuted, don't you?
I'm sure you would be the first to toss Christians to the Lions and laugh.
Atheists: Stalin, Mao, Hitler (pagen) Murder Toll- 300,000,000 not a club I want to be a part of
Any other groups of people you hate, Toasty?
Hitler was a Catholic, not an athiest (though you label him as a pagan, so why include him at all?)
actually Hitler's religious views are quite more complex. In public he appeared to praise German Christian Values as well as an Aryan Jesus, but documents so show that in his private life he was against the Christian Church and considered christianity a religion only fit for slaves. Anyways this is way off topic...
Jacobovici is a Jewish archaeologist that has a TV show on the History International channel. I would tend to believe that if the picture was a fish it would at least show an eye. We are just about to come out of the age of Pisces, which started over 2100 years ago, and is depicted as a fish
Excuse me ROGER-RAMJET but Hitler was NOT atheist as you claim as a matter of fact he believed as much as you do obviously. Do some fact checking before you make idiotic claims. This whole story is a bunch of hogwash and you know it. In all these years NOT one artifact has been found to prove ANY claims of biblical accuracy not one. To claim that Jesus was resurrected and the body disappeared from his tomb yet they may have found an estuary with his bones in it is moronic at best. Many claim that places mentioned in the bible exist so that must mean that the stories are true, with that logic then I guess Harry Potter is true since it took place in London and we all know London really exists. The need of the believers to have some kind of concrete proof that Christ existed and the "miracles" attributed to him must have been real is simply reinforcing a delusional belief at best. I am an atheist and very proud that I can say that since logic and reason guide my life and I have no need for a "god" to give my life meaning or direction I find it very sad that people need these make believe "gods" to make their life mean something how empty their lives must be.
Toasty McGrath.. so are you saying that all documents are fairy tales? Any document found in the distant past whether on paper, stone, or whatever could hold any sort of discovery... and not just in the field of science.
OurGov, I can write anything and store it for the future generations to find. Does that make what I wrote true?
No, just mythological documents, OGS.
And I'm sorry to break it to you Roger, but Hitler was a christian. As were the German people who followed his orders. Once again, you are not persecuted.
CFC... there is always a smart alec in the bunch isn't there!?!
Toasty... where exactly is your proof that is mythological? I guess all of einsteins documents are mythological too based on your thought process.
first of all americans were worst then hitler and he was only doing what was great for his people
second why inherit a religon from a bunch of crooks that cant do anything but scratch on rocks like paper ..
Toasty, unless you can prove that OGS is either Hitler or one of his follows, your argument is totally irrelevant. I am not saying OGS is persecuted or not, but your logic as to why not is so inherently flawed I do not even know where to begin.
Uh, Saddened? My post was responding to them separately.
And OGS, you want to know how I know it's mythology? It says the Earth is the center of the universe, is 6000 years old, had a physically impossible flood, a talking snake, and a guy who lived inside a @!$%#ing whale like Pinocchio.
I actually agree with you on this one. I also agree with the commentary about archaeological discoveries being timed with major Christian feasts. I did get a chuckle out of 'bone boxes'. They're called ossuaries. These so-called academics are producing infotainment. Bought and paid for buy the Discovery Channel.
Are those letters Latin script? That wouldn't make much sense.
It's Greek
Whichever it was it is, that was not the script which would have been used.
There is nothing bigoted about questioning these claims. I'm a Christian, and it embarasses me that people have who claim to have faith are so needy of a proof that can NEVER be satisfactorily provided (that is why it is called Faith)that they go chasing after Jesus Tombs under cover of science. James Tabor is a religious studies professor, not an archaelogist. And just what does he mean about possible DNA tests to compare to certain groups? Maybe he's hoping to find the brown haired blue eyed Jesus with soulful eyes of Western European Christianity? The guy is embarassing himself.
I'm with you for the most part. Just keep in mind that while Tabor is a religious studies professor and not an archeologist, Arav is an archeologist. I would imagine that Arav takes care of the archeology while Tabor takes care of the religious study. And you can see how both would be needed as part of the team.
That said, I would like this study to be measured with the same scrutiny that any other science would be measured with. If something came out of it, that would be interesting, but I don't need it to believe. And I hope that Tabor doesn't make a clown of himself - reflecting on the rest of Christians. We have enough of that already.
Too bad people do not insist on the same level of professionalism for Global Warming and Ocean Acid scientists
Roger...you are child's garden of misinformation.
I knew the christians were praying to fish. Just look at the car bumper stickers!!
Nice one Gomer.
bone box for boneheads
If this piece of @!$%# jesus/sky fairy ascended into the sky, whats with the burial crap?
We get it izmee, you don't believe in nor fear God and you are free to your lack of faith. Tell me something, have you died yet? Do you know for certain what happens after you take your last breath? No, you don't, but the word of God is clear about what happens. For those who are in Christ when they die their souls go to be in his presence. On the otherhand, those who have rejected Christ go into Hades, which is the realm of the lost dead within the heart of the earth and they will wait there in torment until they are resurrected out, where at which time they will stand before God at what is called the great white throne judgment and will be accountable for every sin including every idle word they have spoken. And anyones name not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. The offer of salvation is still there for you and anyone who has continued to reject Christ. I hope that somewhere between taking your last breath and now that God will grant you faith and a repentent heart. It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
How silly you sound, Sir. Speaking of things you have not a single clue, based on what other people with your same mindset wrote in books many years ago, and at the same time trying to have so much weigh in your words. Just tell me, why you need a god for...just to be pamper when you die?
Don, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that NOTHING happens when your dead, NOTHING. Let me ask you a question a simple one at that; do you recall where you were before you were born? Do you recall what was going on before you were born? Well that is what death is all about. There is no god there is no heaven once your life on this Earth is complete it's over and that's that. If I were to ask you exactly how and where your bible came into being could you answer that question? If I were to ask you certain questions about your bible and the stories it contains could you answer any of them precisely? I somehow doubt you could on all counts, like Alan Zanabria said to use words written by men of the same ilk as yourself to justify your claims of a "god" is nothing short of ridiculous.
Well Don based of my EXPERIENCES when a person dies nothing happens. They simply cease to exist. The don't move, speak, breathe, think, or anything that a living person does. I certainly would hope that you would agree that a deceased human being does none of the things that a living person does. So since we have OBSERVED nothing happening when a person dies on what grounds do you assert that something does happen? If you base this on something that cannot be measured may I ask how you can even consider this proof at all?
Ah, There lies the rub. If Jesus ascended into heaven (body and all) then why the need for a "Bone Box for his remains, or perhaps the box was placed with nothing in it ? Don't know, but this is the CORE of the rub with Christian Theology.
Gee, I hope this does not affect the donations. Those preacher life styles are not cheap. Too bad they chose a poor god who needs money for everything. You would think an all powerful god could make ends meet without fleecing the poor.
None of this matters anyway...some fast thinking holy man will make money out of it.
Tabor said:
"that bone boxes in a nearby tomb might contain the earthly remains of Jesus and members of his family. The investigators reached that conclusion based on the names inscribed on the boxes, and their similarity to the names listed in biblical accounts of Jesus' brothers and sisters."
Regardless of their debate regarding whether the inscription is a fish or not makes no difference. Tabor is inferring that the box may contain the remains of Jesus, which is impossible! And to support this claim, he has inferred that early Christianity was anticipating a spiritual resurrection opposed to a bodily resurrection and below are the reasons why this is a false teaching.
Anastasis: a rising again, resurrection. 386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476 /hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Note: The Greek word “Anastasis” which is translated “Resurrection” is defined as referring to a “Bodily” resurrection opposed to a spiritual one.
“Sir,” they said, “we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first.” 65“Take a guard,” Pilate answered. “Go, make the tomb as secure as you know how.” 66So they went and made the tomb secure by putting a seal on the stone and posting the guard. (Mt.27:63-66)
Rebut: From the verses above, it is clear that the Jewish leaders understood that Jesus was speaking of a bodily resurrection in that, they requested that a guard be posted at the tomb so that his disciples could not come and steal his “body” and then claim that he had resurrected. If it was speaking of a spiritual resurrection, no one would know the difference because it would not be based on a missing body. And even after the Roman guards told the Jews about the angels appearing, the Jews paid them money to keep quiet and told them to say that Jesus' disciples came and stole his body anyway.
On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the "body" of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them. 5In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; he has risen! (Lk.24:1-6)
Rebut: Here the women come to the tomb early in the morning to bring spices, but the “body” of Jesus is missing. Furthermore, in regards to the Lord’s body , the two angels ask the woman why they are looking for the living among the dead and then inform them that his body is not here because he has risen, that is, he’s walking around in it.
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” (Jn.20:26-27)
Rebut: The week prior when the disciples had informed Thomas that they had seen the Lord, Thomas said that he would not believe until he had seen the nail marks in his hands and put his hand into the hole in his side made from the spear. A week later Jesus appears to them again and immediately goes to Thomas and requests of him to check his marks. The fact that Thomas is checking for the nail marks in his hands and the spear hole in his side shows again that Jesus was standing before them in the same body that he was crucified and buried in, showing that his resurrection was bodily and not spiritual.
36They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence. (Lk.24:36-43)
Rebut: Here the disciples are frightened because they think that they are seeing a spirit, but in order to calm their fears Jesus urges them to look at his hands and feet as proof that it is he himself in his own body and this by reason of the of the nail and spear marks. To further prove the point that it is him in the flesh he tells them, “a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have” which also demonstrates that his resurrection was bodily.
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. (Jn.5:28-29)
Rebut: If the resurrection was a spiritual one as Tabor proclaims, then why bother with graves? If the resurrection had to do only with the spirit of men, then there would be no need to involve the grave and that because the word of God is clear in that, men and women's souls depart from their bodies at the time of death. (Phil.1:23)
So it is stated elsewhere:
“‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’
36“For when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his fathers and his body decayed. 37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay. (Ps.16:10, Acts 13:35-37)
Rebut: The above verse is possibly one of the best apologetics for the bodily resurrection of Jesus, for the Scripture says, “You will not let your Holy One see decay.” Since it is clear that a man’s spirit cannot decay and that because it is not corporeal, this would show that the Scripture is speaking of a bodily resurrection, Jesus being the "Holy One" mentioned in the Scripture. Three days after Jesus was crucified he entered back into the same body that he was crucified and buried in and stood up again and was seen by over 500 believer
Of course, the far more likely argument is "it can't be Jesus' bones because he's a fictional character who didn't actually exist." One sentence.
You can tell him that when you see him Toasty and you will see him, guaranteed!
Okay Don. Prove it.
Toasty,
Science tells us that dark matter exists, however they can't prove that either. Prove to me your existence is reality and that you are not a consciousness that is involved in an elaborate virtual reality.
Yes it has been observed that dark matter exists through the technique of gravitational lensing.
A slap across the face should do it.
LOL @ Greg, good one!!!
Scientists have proven definitively that dark matter exists. They've done the math, they see the gravity acting as it should. There is no debate.
As for your other challenge, perhaps science isn't your forte. Might I suggest attending one of Deepak Chopra's crazy basketcase seminars? You might be more comfortable in that setting.
Don is correct. I do not understand how a Christian could make the case that Jesus was resurrected only in spiritual form. It's pretty clear from a Biblical standpoint that the body was missing.
However, It is not "Impossible" that the bone box contains the remains of Jesus. One must consider the possibility that the Bible is embellished or just flat out wrong. All of the Gospels were written decades after the Death of Jesus (at the earliest) plenty of time for evolution of what really happened.
They seem to find a Christian tourist-worthy 'artifact' in Israel about once a month. Maybe they can put them all in one place and call it JesusWorld.
Someone beat you to it.
There appear to be six (6) very distinct fish across the top design of the Jonah Box.. the larger motif does not appear to be a fish, nor does it appear to be anything other than a stylized amphora, one with small hoops instead of full handles.
1st - 3rd century Jar from Iraq, (http://www.asia.si.edu/explore/american/peacock/north.asp#Jar2)
note the short handle and unique design>
The Jonah Fish lacks even a basic "fish scales" design.
the six fish across the top are more interesting than the giant fish doing the headstand.
very contemporary. looks like they could have been yanked off the trunk of a chevy or a ford yesterday.
Understanding the time, 1st century, and possible the difference between perhaps a common peasant versus the more stylized ossuaries of wealthy Jews,.. after all, even Jesus was placed in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.
This ossuary is clearly not a top of the line bone box.. nor would one expect it to be, especially if it is in fact Christian.
It's a penis!
For some reason when I look at the picture of the box I want to make the sound effect from the old 1980's Transformers cartoon.
kkkkeekkekoo-koo-koo......there, I've said it.
pretty little box though...nice place to keep incense and whatnot. Too bad that gallows was carved in the square on the front next to that primitive looking fish....now had it been a cross....that's an execution device I don't mind seein'....works real slow.
Next.
There also appears to be a another Ossuary as published by Antonio Lombatti that depicts an Amphora< This clearly demonstrates a known motif.
This still does not debunk the six (6) small fish below the top edge. All of which are oriented in the correct horizontal manner a swimming fish.
It looks more like a rectangular sandbox and a primitive hopscotch board...
hmmmm
The small end panel, the arch with the window???
Does it make sense that they had window with window panes 2000 year ago???
Based on research, (quickly done), The Romans first used a window around CE 100,
Seem odd they they would have created a four paned window right away??
That looks more like an image depicting the shape of the ossuary.. then it shows the stylized border design then it shows a cross, not what we would be accustomed to seeing as a window today...
Seeing a possible Christian Ossuary with fish and a cross??? as well as a know motif in the form of an Amphora???
Well, this is getting more interesting.. I would love to see the other two sides...
Don-816006
What comic book have you been reading? I have never read anything in the Bible that comes close to what you said. A sinner goes goes to "hades in the heart of the earth "? Come on! I think you may have been reading "The Hobbit" or something, certainly not the Bible. The Bible says hades is just the common grave of mankind. Why would you worship a god who tortures people. Would you burn your kitten every day for a month for wetting on your floor? If not then you are on a higher moral plane than your god who burns people in fire for eternity just because they "sinned " for fourty or fifty years. And by the way, being tortured in Hell Or Hades forever means they have everlasting life doesn't it? The Bible I read says everlasting life was to be a gift for being obiedant. Try reading the Bible instead of spouting what your paid preacher told you. The Bible I read says that at death.
(Ps 146:4) . . .His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish. . .
Ecc 9:5, 6) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, ...
In the Bible Gosples wasn't Lazarus the friend of Jesus a good man? Why then would Jesus weep for him if he had gone to be with God? Why would Jesus bring him back to life as a mortal man if He had gone to his everlasting reward in Heaven? Seems like a pretty dirty trick ro play on a friend. Why didn't Lazarus say anything about seeing God or punch his friend for taking him from Heaven? Oh yeah that's right, it was beacuse He was DEAD.
Look, the fact that the image was first shown to the public in the wrong orientation and that it has now been identified not as a fish, but as an amphora, is beyond dispute. Given that simple fact, the entire claim is undermined and Tabor's point moot. His whole theory rests on his seeing this thing as a fish. It just isn't.
His claim has been shown to be incorrect..
That in no way invalidates the Ossuary itself>
It still displays six (6) fish, this is fact.
It may display a "Cross" on side panel. Windows of the period would not have looked like that.
It was found exactly where it was found, this is not disputed.
Interpretation of the etched images is not always science. Often it is in fact interpretation...
The Amphora is not a fish, that does not mean this Ossuary is not Christian in origin no matter how many time a person say it is something else..
I knew jesus was a lying son of a bitch!!! bastard.
God damn mexicans and their fish.
I just pissed myself!!!! I need a high fiber diet
Mr. Binkie. you suck jesus's cock, and all his jew disciples suck mine. one giant religious jew cock sucking session..
LOL@ TomTheChristianSlayer, you're not well sir, but I enjoyed your posts.
sometimes when i think about woman breast feeding crap myself