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NASA file
The five giant F-1 engines on Apollo 11's Saturn 5 rocket loom large during preparations for the 1969 launch from NASA's Kennedy Space Center. Amazon.com billionaire Jeff Bezos says his team has located the engines, which fell into the sea just minutes after liftoff.
Amazon.com's billionaire founder, Jeff Bezos, says he's funded a successful effort to locate the mammoth rocket engines that sent the Apollo 11 mission on the first leg of its mission to the moon — and now he's planning to bring them up from the Atlantic Ocean floor.
It's shaping up as the latest high-rolling undersea adventure, alongside film director James Cameron's dive to the deepest spot in the Pacific, British billionaire Richard Branson's Virgin Oceanic expedition and the Deepsearch submersible project backed by Google's Eric Schmidt.
Bezos' effort plays off his longtime fascination with outer space — a passion that is also driving his decade-old Blue Origin rocket venture. Like Blue Origin, the undersea recovery project is being funded from the dot-com billionaire's personal fortune.
Destined for museums
The five F-1 rocket engines were on the first stage of Apollo 11's Saturn 5 rocket, which dropped into the Atlantic just minutes after liftoff in 1969. In an online statement, Bezos acknowledges that the undersea artifacts, like other hardware associated with the space effort, still belongs to NASA — and he imagines that one of the engines would go on display at the Smithsonian. But in today's announcement, he says he's asked NASA to consider having another engine sent to the Museum of Flight — which happens to be in Seattle, Amazon.com's hometown.
Rocketdyne built more of the 18-foot-tall F-1 engines than were needed for the Apollo missions, and some of those surplus engines have been placed on display, either attached to Saturn stages or as standalone exhibits. One can be seen at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum in Washington, for example, and there's another at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Center in Virginia.
The idea of recovering Apollo 11's engines has been debated for more than 10 years, ever since Project Mercury's Liberty Bell 7 space capsule was raised from the Atlantic seafloor in 1999, said Robert Pearlman, editor of the CollectSpace website and an expert on space history and collectibles. NASA and the U.S. Navy had a good idea where the Saturn 5's first stage splashed down, which probably served as a clue for Bezos' search, he said.
In his statement, Bezos said the engines were located using "state-of-the-art deep-sea sonar," but it's not yet fully clear whether the sonar operation was done using deep-diving underwater robots — as was the case with the recent Titanic mapping project — or strictly with surface equipment. A spokesman for Amazon.com told me that no further details about the project would be shared today.
Pearlman was particularly intrigued to learn that Bezos was already in discussions with NASA about the potential disposition of the rocket engines. "If I were a betting fellow, I would say that Bezos is closer to mounting an expedition than the statement seems to imply," he said. "Which is really cool."
Lessons from Liberty Bell
Curt Newport, the underwater salvage expert who orchestrated the raising of Liberty Bell 7, said bringing up the engines would pose significant challenges. He assumes that the engines are among other pieces of debris from the Saturn 5's first stage that are spread across the sea floor. "The information I found suggested that [the stage] broke up due to aerodynamic forces before it hit the water," he told me.
Verifying that the engines are from Apollo 11 rather than a different Apollo mission would require checking parts numbers against NASA's database, he said. And bringing up the engines would not be a trivial task.
"If they're intact, they're like nine tons each," Newport told me. "That is not going to be easy to bring to the surface."
Bezos said in his statement that the condition of the engines was not yet known.
Here's the full statement from Bezos, via his Bezos Expeditions website.
"The F-1 rocket engine is still a modern wonder — one and a half million pounds of thrust, 32 million horsepower, and burning 6,000 pounds of rocket grade kerosene and liquid oxygen every second. On July 16, 1969, the world watched as five particular F-1 engines fired in concert, beginning the historic Apollo 11 mission. Those five F-1s burned for just a few minutes, and then plunged back to Earth into the Atlantic Ocean, just as NASA planned. A few days later, Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon.
"Millions of people were inspired by the Apollo Program. I was 5 years old when I watched Apollo 11 unfold on television, and without any doubt it was a big contributor to my passions for science, engineering, and exploration. A year or so ago, I started to wonder, with the right team of undersea pros, could we find and potentially recover the F-1 engines that started mankind's mission to the moon?
"I'm excited to report that, using state-of-the-art deep sea sonar, the team has found the Apollo 11 engines lying 14,000 feet below the surface, and we're making plans to attempt to raise one or more of them from the ocean floor. We don't know yet what condition these engines might be in — they hit the ocean at high velocity and have been in salt water for more than 40 years. On the other hand, they're made of tough stuff, so we'll see.
"Though they've been on the ocean floor for a long time, the engines remain the property of NASA. If we are able to recover one of these F-1 engines that started mankind on its first journey to another heavenly body, I imagine that NASA would decide to make it available to the Smithsonian for all to see. If we're able to raise more than one engine, I've asked NASA if they would consider making it available to the excellent Museum of Flight here in Seattle. (For clarity, I'll point out that no public funding will be used to attempt to raise the engines, as it's being undertaken privately.)
"NASA is one of the few institutions I know that can inspire 5-year-olds. It sure inspired me, and with this endeavor, maybe we can inspire a few more youth to invent and explore.
"We'll keep you posted."
Update for 2:15 p.m. ET March 29: In comments distributed to journalists on Wednesday, NASA spokesman Bob Jacobs had some nice things to say about Bezos' project but noted that the space agency has not yet been involved in formal talks about recovery of the engines.
"We read Mr. Bezos's blog post with the same excitement as I am sure others have today," CollectSpace's Robert Pearlman quoted Jacobs as saying. "We have not had any formal contact with Mr. Bezos about the Apollo engines but we look forward to hearing more from his team and the recovery expedition."
Jacobs said "the rules regarding NASA property in the ocean are the same as those that govern sunken ships and other government property, including our hardware on the moon and other celestial bodies. ... As Mr. Bezos points out in his blog, the federal government retains ownership until the property is properly disposed."
"However, we do not see that as any impediment to the recovery efforts of the Apollo engines," Jacobs wrote.
He drew a parallel to the Liberty Bell 7 case: "Gus Grissom's Liberty Bell 7 spacecraft was recovered from the bottom of the Atlantic in 1999 through a private venture. Ownership of the spacecraft was eventually turned over to the Kansas Cosmosphere, where it remains on public display." (I originally wrote that Liberty Bell 7 was raised in 1997, but I was two years off.)
Jacobs sees Bezos' venture as a positive step for space history: "There has always been great interest in artifacts from the early days of space exploration and his announcement only adds to the enthusiasm of those interested in NASA's history," The Associated Press' Alicia Chang quoted him as saying.
Update for 10:30 p.m. ET April 1: In a statement released on Friday, NASA Administrator Charles Bolden indicated that he's totally on board with Bezos' plan:
"I would like to thank Jeff Bezos for his communication with NASA informing us of his historic find. I salute him and his entire team on this bold venture and wish them all the luck in the world.
"NASA does retain ownership of any artifacts recovered and would likely offer one of the Saturn V F-1 engines to the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum in Washington under longstanding arrangements with the institution as the holder of the national collection of aerospace artifacts.
"If the Smithsonian declines or if a second engine is recovered, we will work to ensure an engine or other artifacts are available for display at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, as Jeff requested in his correspondence with my office. I have directed our staff to begin work to exercise all appropriate authorities to provide a smooth and expeditious disposition of any flight hardware recovered.
"I sincerely hope all continues to go well for Jeff and Blue Origin, and that his team enjoys success and prosperity in every endeavor. All of us at NASA have our fingers crossed for success in his upcoming expedition of exploration and discovery."
More about space history:
- Restored Apollo test capsule ready for next mission
- Bill would defend astronauts' right to sell artifacts
- New frontiers for shuttle souvenirs
- Flash timeline: Glory Days on the Final Frontier
Alan Boyle is msnbc.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter or adding Cosmic Log's Google+ page to your circle. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for other worlds.
Leave a Comment:
Go get 'em, Jeff.
Go Bezos! Bring 'em home to Seattle.
Yep, a worthwhile effort for sure.
Now there is an endeavor worth doing. It is part of our history and should be put on display.
I would say phuck that....if these engines are in international waters then if I put up the money to bring them up then they are mine not NASA's unless they want to foot the bill and throw in something extra for my 'expertise' then they can have them or part of them. NASA should have not rights to them anymore, not after 40 yrs and not bothering their a$$ about them until someone else is willing to fund the project...tell NASA to phuck off and keep the engines for himself - which I know he won't but the arrogance of NASA boggles the mind, well it shouldn't really these phucking pricks have been lying about everything they've ever touched since their inception.
Well, for a lack of sentence structure and an obviously limited vocabulary, I do happen to agree with Son-Of-Bi-Anus.
he's right. salvage law was cleared up when people tried to mine titanic and make money. verbatim- "once something is lost in the ocean with no current hope of recovery it belongs to whoever wants to spend the money and try to bring it up."
nasa in 1969 did not try to recover them so they(the engines) are basically first come first served.
Unless your looking to write it all off on taxes. Just think like a multi-millionaire, spend money, give rusted garbage to the government, pad your costs, make an "educational" movie, donate it to PBS or Education Department.
Tell that to the US Federal Judge that required the salvaged Spanish Gold and Silver Coins be returned to Spain.
A 32 million HP engine? I wanna put that in my 1994 Geo Metro!!!
And I want to see that! Lol!
On a serious note, I'd like to see one of them end up at the EAA AirVenture museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin.
My only concerns about bringing them up would be, have they become an artificial reef/home to sealife and what damage might be done to the engines if they are brought up?
I would love to see them, but I'm also content if they stay where they are, buried at sea like a good soldier/sailor.
Wow, it's pretty cool of him to use his own money to recover pieces of American history 14,000 feet under water. Especially when you consider the fact that he doesn't even get to keep them!
Cool indeed. I have my own philanthropic plans for when I win the $500 mil Mega Millions jackpot...after I buy myself a Maserati of course.
That's right you got to be in it to win it. I'm going to but a Lamborghini.
We need more stuff like this going on, in order to keep us from being distracted by all the BS going on these days. We need to push the scientific envelope again as a nation. We need a project that americans can get behind, and I dont mean another war. If we stop reaching beyond our grasp, we will suffer the same fate as other world powers, and be left to decay only to fade into history. We have proven that if we have a monumental task before us and we work together, there is nothing that can stop the american machine. We must again be leaders in scientific innovation and discovery, and leave the myths and mysticism to the short sighted.
We need more of what stuff going on? Retrieving engines from the ocean floor at a cost of millions of dollars, to be displayed in a museum? This advances us scientifically, how? Better that Bezos use those millions to help schools or fund other worthy goals, such as financial aid for budding, future scientists who will build BETTER engines.
That requires leadership which we lake today in Congress and the Whitehouse.
It was a sad day when we ended the Shuttle program and had nothing to replace it. Our technology has improved so much since the Shuttle Program was first launched I just know we could have something so much better. Why we now rely on the Russians to keep reaching for the stars is a mystery to me. I guess it's more important to continuously extend unemployment benefits 99 weeks at a time than it is to keep the dream alive.
I agree with Big John's sentiment, but I also agree that exactly what does this massive private capital expense do that is to promote a new wave of scientific endeavor and advancement? Perhaps that money would have been better served funding private medical research (that did not involve the sexuality of college age female blondes vs brunettes or other such nonsense)
Furthermore, I just can't bring myself to understanding how exploring Mars or Venus or Saturn is going to help improve our lives here on earth. That's sort of like studying chimpanzees in the wild and telling your investors you're looking for a better, more efficient way to store power.
More things that bring us together, not intended to divide us. That is what I meant by more things like this. But alas, you missed the forest for the trees and only focused on my first sentence. I did say more projects that push the scientific envelope. And I guess that in your mind retrieving something from 14,000 feet below the surface is a simple task that requires no scientific innovation. Seeing a rocket engine that got our people to the moon holds no value I guess. Future scientists are inspired by what they see in museums. You know that they are not learning anything in schools these days. A rocket engine before your eyes has a much bigger impact than a picture in a text book. The innovations that missions to the moon gave have impacted everyone's daily lives, sadly most do not even realize it.
You can thank NObama for no space program...yet another, among many, reasons not to reelect him!
Your "bring us together" idea is very clearly a difficult concept for some.
Nikolaus20
Why does it have to advance science? Bezos tells us why he is doing this in his statement. He is doing this NOT for science, but instead he is doing it to inspire Americans, particularly young Americans.
You can have the best schools that are highly funded and have great teachers but if those students are not inspired then all that other stuff is wasted. I agree that America would do well to increase education funding, but we should also see that an investment into inspiring our nation's youth is also just as important.
Without that inspiration the young people of today probably won't be passionate engineers and scientists of tomorrow.
I understand we today live with many advancements that out lunar space program and the shuttle program is solely responsible for, but my contention is there are many "more practical" endeavors that can provide the same side benefits (scientific advancements and other discoveries that make our live's easier and more efficient) that involve exploring in our own back yard. Until we know everything there is to know about our own planet, perhaps we should hold off on spending billions in getting to and photographing other planets near us.
STexan
The problem is, you're using apple and cucumber in your analogy; we study chimanzees for things like examining their social-relationships and capacity to figure out how to deal with obstacles; we can compare this to human social-structures and how we process problem-solving.
The only geology and meteorology that we know up close and personal is that of our own planet; but comparing these processes between planetary environments allows us to find out thing such as how hurricanes form with different density of gases; how a planet absorbs or deflects heat, with weather and climate implications; what sort of activity produces what sort of peripheral landscape changes like earthquakes, tsunamis, mountain-building and subsidance.
Comparisons give us the opportunity to examine processes that we have no experimental controls of.
@Nikolaus20
First, did someone say it would advance us scientifically?
Second, it's not taxpayer money being used, so what do you care?
Third, if someone with the means to do this is going to do it knowing that they have to hand the prize off to someone else, it stands to reason that they are doing it for the sake of history and to inspire a new generation of heroes. I'd say that's worth getting excited about!
At least it's private money funding this.
Funny how a lot of people have an opinion on how to spend somebody else’s money.
This guy has too much money. Must lay awake at night trying to figure out how to blow it. The hell with the starving millions.
The funny thing about science is that you always learn something, even in your failures. As an engineer I learn more from my failed experiments than I do from my successful ones. I am speaking out of a passion for all things science, for obvious reasons. And I think we could use some more focus on these types of things, rather than who the latest guy a kardashian is dating. How much money would you spend to find the cure for aids or cancer. Sometimes innovations are found in areas completely unrelated and by complete mistake, but they find their ways into the right hands and are put to good use.
Holy cow, Batman! 43 years of progress have yielded a country of poopy heads!!
If a private individual wants to spend HIS money to do something like this, what do you poopy heads care? I for one think it is a fantastic idea. The sound of the F1 engine is the second loudest man-made sound, next to a nuclear bomb. If someone cannot get excited about anything related to an F1 engine, they are dead inside.
He should convert one of the existing mothballed F1 engines into a working one and charge money to watch it be fired. Now, THAT would be worth an E ticket!!
Aside from the engines and space, the sheer magnitude of this undersea effort could help develop technology that could yield to a better understanding of the vastness of our planet.
Your logic is a tad flawed. You assume an either/or scenario when none exists. Bezos currently donates more money than you and I will probably make in our lifetimes, each and every year, to various charities. Now, I don't know about funding scientists (and that is a good suggestion), but the idea that you can't do both is just not accurate.
When economic times are tight, Americans tend to forget their greatest values. The classes to be cut first, for example, are usually the arts. We shuck historical treasures such as this article covers in favor of more 'practical' spending. Exactly what are we spending FOR if not for an enriched life? Take away history, arts, and (here's where we agree) forward-thinking research, and life becomes mere existence.
Big John-5071382,
Sure we need projects like these, a tremendous waste of resources, and we cannot even make clear glass light bulbs instead of white frosted lightbulbs (think about that, wattage input versus lumins output, it is not like everyone hangs light bulbs from bare sockets without a light fixture or lamp shade).
Now let's talk about limited Resources, and the Wars for the World's Resources. With the US and US Allies losing most of the World's Resources, especially those required for High Tech Products and Manufacturing to the Chinese and Russian Federation.
So what if we end up just like the Germans after they lost all the North African Oil during World War II, all their "alternative energy" did not help them as they literally "ran out of gas" for all their High Tech Weapons Systems (including Jet Aircraft).
US Oil already depleted after the early 20th Century "Black Gold Oil Rushes", abandoned depleted Oil Fields at California, Texas, Oklahoma, etc.. Poisonous and explosive Methane aka Natural Gas more deadly than CO2 emissions. US left with high sulfur content low grade oil as previously used and created acid rain (sulfuric acid) during the 1970s Oil Crisis.
US already estimated to be Replaced by the Chinese as a Superpower, with the US becoming a Fourth World Nation, us living like Afghans with either No Fuel or Fuel too expensive (US and US Allies Loss of the Iraqis Oil to the Chinese and Russian Federation, loss of Libyan Oil to the Chinese). Chinese currently cranking out their 21st Century Deep Water Navy as quickly as possible to keep their current sources of Resources or expand Militarily if necessary.
What I find amusing is you do not get rid of the old thing (Space Shuttle) until you already have a tested and proven replacement. Go walk to the store to buy clothes naked and see what happens. The US becoming naked since the Space Shuttle is no longer around to do the classified missions to repair "spy" satellites, those spy satellites showing what the Chinese, Russian Federation and the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran are doing.
"You can thank NObama for no space program...yet another, among many, reasons not to reelect him!"
Let's see, we have ISS, we have Commercial Crew, consisting of SpaceX/Dragon, Boeing/CST-100, Sierra Nevada/Dream Chaser, and the still-unnamed Blue Origin vehicle, and (if certain elements of Congress doesn't kill Commercial Crew in order to feed...) the Space Launch System, Orion.
The only thing we don't have at the moment, is our own access to LEO and specifically to ISS (the decision to retire the Shuttle was made in 2004, BTW...where was Obama then?). Commercial crew is meant to address that, and other possible customers. (Again, if Congress doesn't kill it for their BFR with no funded application, and overpriced/overkill for LEO/ISS access, getting their state/district pork, while we continue to pay the Russians)
What's that? Jeff Bezos is one of the Commercial Crew contenders that wants to get us back to LEO more frequently and cheaper? (Blue Origin) Yet some people here won't cut him any slack, and tell him how to spend the rest of his money.
That's a long way from 'no' space program. (unless 'space program' equals only 'Space Shuttle' to you...sorry, there were gaps between all our previous maned spacecraft, too. Nothing new here.)
And that's just the manned stuff that I've mentioned...
Why do people think we don't spend enough on education? More money won't motivate students to learn. There isn't any significant link between money and test scores. Most of the increase in education budgets go to union member salaries and benefits.
Go get em Jeff! But tell NASA where to stick it and keep them.
What would we learn from this endeavor? I'm sure we are learning quite a bit about locating deep sea items and will learn a ton about deep sea salvage.
However, I would like to see this money spent elsewhere, like, say, going back into space? I would like to see Jeff partner with some of the other million and billionairs funding private space flight or funding a private lunar mission.
Tony, as I told someone else, Google: "Jeff Bezos"+"Blue Origin" (quotation marks and all)
He is developing private space flight.
As for what he does with his own personal money, what you or I might 'like' is irrelevant. But the reason he considers it desirable to recover these space-related artifacts, is because he does space.
Well, it's what I would 'like', so it's my opinion. Like it or leave it. It's also my opinion that someone will get uber(sp?) rich going into space with private funding.
But, if he is working the funding for private space flight, all I have to say is, "more power to him."
Well, ok. I think I'd rather see items that left the earth, or better yet, flew to the moon. If he wants to spend what's pocket change to him to get these, that's dandy. It may be best to display them alongside the much more interesting Apollo 11 items.
The world would have a fit is anyone removed any of the items from the Apollo Moon landings. They may not be registered landmarks but they should certainly be protected and revered as such. Leave the Moon landing sites as they are. They must stand for all time as a reminder of what can be accomplished if we only work hard and make the effort to overcome great obstacles.
Actually, all the Apollo landing sites are protected under international law as preserved sites. It would be illegal for anyone (other than the US) to even touch them.
My only question is how do they know they're from Apollo 11? Apollo 8 and 10 also were launched on the Saturn V booster, and I seem to recall at least one unmanned launch before that. Was there something peculiar to the Apollo 11 trajectory that indicated a specific landing zone?
Regardless of whether they're from Apollo 11 or not, I applaud the effort. As Jeff says, NASA is one organization that can inspire people of all ages.
If the serial numbers are still there, that would be one sure way to identify which flight the engines powered.
Kind of to you and Spicolli too ...
While I'm not a scientist, I do believe that trajectories were different for each launch (the moon was not quite in the same place).
You can see Apollo 11's here ...http://www.nasm.si.edu/exhibitions/attm/flightpath/a11.steps.html
As an aside, I was lucky enough, as a youngster, to see the launch in person! I STILL want to go!!!!
Each launch is in a specific inclination angle, dependent on the specific orbit you want to reach. Each rocket went into a particular orbit around earth, until it accelerated towards the moon, which is a constantly moving target. In short, each rocket booster landed in a different place after liftoff.
How messy of NASA to thow their booster rockets away like that. One would think that they would all be stacked up in the same place..geez
Filled them with foam so they would float.
This is very cool!
How do they know these are Apollo 11 engines? Weren't there about 10 other launches, like about 50 other engines laying around?
If you've seen documentaries about recovered sunken aircraft, you would know that they can learn a lot about the time of manufacture, and what unit of what service branch they flew in, from serial numbers on their parts.
Same idea here. Once they can see those numbers and other details (for which there are still records), they'll know with certainty if these engines came from the Apollo-11 launch, or some other Saturn V.
While I am sure there are some that think this is a total waste, it warms my heart to know that someone besides me was inspired by the efforts of NASA and its people during the 1960's. While not everyone can afford to follow their passion as large as Jeff Bezos, there is something uniquely American about an effort such as this.
The engines are separate? I thought that they would still be part of the first stage. Can anyone set me straight?
The engines should be in good shape considering the materials used in construction. I would suspect most of the 1st stage was ripped away when it hit the ocean and the rest corroded in sea water. The engines should still be attached to the 1st stage superstructure that was the base that the engines connected to.
Given the scourge of salt water on the aluminum skins of the booster, I would imagine that the only things that would be left after 40 years would be the engines.
That makes more sense. I forgot about the high velocity impact, and the Al skin - saltwater eats that for lunch. Thangx!
There is a difference when they are in 14,000 feet of freezing cold water.
i'm wndering if the paint maybe kept fungi and other things at bay. because in titanic and other ships the fungi and other fish refused to eat or nibble on certain things. i'most scientists say it was because the paint had lead so maybe the whole booster is down there. be interesting for sure.
If the falling stage didn't break upon the way down, water impact would have destroyed most of it. The engines may be the most recognizable piece.
I've often said I'd like to visit the locations on the Moon where the Saturn third stage of Apollo 13 on, were made to impact (to provide an energetic 'kick' for the seismometers left by previous missions). I suspect that the J-2 engines might be the only recognizable object in a man-made crater there, as well...
just curious..if abandoned on the ocean floor for 40 years...why would it still be their property..?
what a great find though....a great uplifting moment in history....
Maritime law is very picky about ownership as it relates to sunken articles. It would depend on exactly where they were found (US or International water) How long they have been down there (40 years in this case) and often whether the original owner is still around (the US Government).
Spain keeps suing salvage companies over precious metals recovered from sunken ships off the coast of the Americas and has been winning judgements that give them the largest claim to the loot. These ships went down 300 - 400 years ago so the precedent has been established that the engines are US property until the country no longer exists or until the US relinquishes their claim.
IANAL but I would bet Bezos has consulted with lawyers who specialize in maritime salvage to determine exactly who owns the engines. Even if the US doesn't have a claim, I think it would be awfully egotistical of Mr. Bezos to claim them as his own.
What a great tax write off! If the engines are not the property of the US govt, then the cost incurred by Mr Bezos to recover and then donate them to the Smithsonian, etc would be a charitable deduction.
Go for it!!
Since we're talking about the engines ... couldn't resist posting this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uVYM7KodDQ
Yet another reason for being a very happy Amazon.com customer! :-)
As long as he gives one to Houston, which was cheated out of a space shuttle.
They have a complete Saturn 5 rocket, which they did not take good care of it. That is why Houston did not get a shuttle.
http://www.check-six.com/lib/SaveSaturnV.htm
You figure the guy who created Amazon would be smart enough just to sell NASA the coordinates of where the engines are if his efforts are just wasted since he can't even keep one.
NASA already had a very good fix on where the engines were based on tracking thier trajectories in 1969. They are the ones who supplied Bezos with the general coordinates to look in the first place (as the article states). They just never actually bothered to go looking for them.
Very cools. When I joined Rocketdyne in the 70's there were several F1 and J2 engines in the boneyard awaiting being scrapped. It was like standing next to history.
When the rockets hit the ocean surface at that speed I'm sure they were crushed. Instead of wasting money picking up trash from the ocean floor why not inspire kids with funding space technology that can be used today.
The expansion nozzle may be damaged but these engines are very solid nickel/chrome/cobalt alloy.
"When the rockets hit the ocean surface at that speed I'm sure they were crushed. Instead of wasting money picking up trash from the ocean floor why not inspire kids with funding space technology that can be used today."
Ryan, please. Google: "Jeff Bezos"+"Blue Origin"
He is. You just don't yet know his name in that context the way you know Elon Musk. But ultimately, you will.
with all due respect, if Jeff wants to see an F1 engine, all he has to do is traipse down to rocketdyne in Canoga Park. there is one sitting right in front of the main building. there are also f1 engines at each of the main NASA sites, on Saturn V boosters that are laid on their side.
If he is really interested in f1 engines, he has the money to have them produced again, Rocketdyne is for sale for $400 million.
Does Bell Aerospace want to unload Rocketdyne now?
I think he's more interested in THESE APOLLO 11 engines as a matter of historical importance than just F1 engines in general.
Historically, there's a premium placed on flown items ... may be more inspirational.
Yep, that's why the Smithsonian gave the Shuttle Enterprise which it had on display and had never flown in space, to New York's museum. They traded it out for Discovery, I believe.
It isn't about 'looking at F-1 engines,' it's about historical artifacts.
These particular engines didn't gather dust in storage, they did something historic.
I find that this use of millions of dollars is quite misguided, especially when there are much better causes to choose from, such as ending world hunger, fighting numerous diseases such as cancer or ALS or providing education for underprivileged youth to name a few.
While I appreciate the zest for knowledge and the inspiration that space and its associated artifacts provide, it just seems a bit wrong to go hunting for space junk when there are much more important things that could be done with the money.
Just an opinion.
Yea, just an opinion. You should Google about the ROI of the Space Programs. Might change your opinion.
I see nothing wrong with funding space exploration, but that is not what this is.
It's his money. Or is private expenditure now subject to review? That 50c you spent on a soda the other day could have gone to an orphan.
So it is now your position to tell others how to spend their own personal wealth?
No, I was simply giving my opinion. The man can spend his money as he chooses. And he may give money to fund worthwhile causes. But it seems that the media doesn't choose to cover stories like that.
Hey, believe it or not, in this country a person can still spend his money on whatever he wants (what little the government leaves him). You are at complete liberty to donate to feeding the hungry, protecting the whales or bringing about the millennial reign of the great mumbo-jumbo. Or, old cowboy philosophy:
I spent a lot of my money on whiskey and wild women. The rest I just wasted.
Do you like people telling you where to spend your money? I think not.
"And he may give money to fund worthwhile causes. But it seems that the media doesn't choose to cover stories like that."
And most philanthropy does indeed go unsung. But most people don't do it to get headlines, they do it because they think it's right.
And no, seeing someone sign a big check to a charity is not as exciting as recovery of historical space-related artifacts.
All you people whinning he should spend his millions on other things - how do you know he doesn't already fund those types of projects??? Most very wealthy people do give to very worthwhile causes but just don't make a big public display of it.
I couldn't agree more Bev. It's his money let him do as he pleases. Furthermore it sounds like some people just want to see more handouts but they disguise it by saying "his money would be better spent on schools..."
The engines will be damaged I'd guess but I also think NASA may be able to learn quite a bit from them.
I think it is B.S. that NASA claims ownership of their junk. If they want it, they should go and get it. Otherwise, let's fine NASA for littering. If the guys finds it, he ought to be able to keep it...
Supposing that we should be able to direct or comment on where Bezos spends his well earned cash is somewhat ridiculous. I doubt anyone has looked up how much he donates to charity.
If you earned it, do with it what you want. You have NO moral obligation to spend it on anyone but yourself or your interests. When he spends some of his nestegg to fund these explorations he inevitably supports the creation of new technology, research into undersea exploration and funds many jobs.
Wow...Epic case of too much money and time on your hands.
Awesome! A proud to be an American story !
Fantastic! Just have a problem with the legal thing that NASA still "owns" the engines - they were abandoned! But just because they are a govenment agency, the attitude is that if someone spends the resources to recover, then the agency can claim the property. Just like the Spanish government claiming treasure of ships that have lain on the ocean bottom for centuries - if it's their property, then go get it yourself. If you have not tried, knowing the technology is available, then anyone who does use it, gets to keep. 4Q, Spain and other governments!
It wasn't abandoned. It landed in the ocean, and they just haven't gotten around to pull them up.
Can some bad parent use that line of reasoning when they leave their child?
"I didn't abandon my child. I just haven't gotten around to picking them up yet."