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Subscribe to RSSPlanetary Resources video lays out the venture's asteroid-mining plan.
The venture known as Planetary Resources eventually plans to go asteroid mining — but the first step in the billionaire-backed business plan is to launch an orbital fleet of "personal space telescopes" capable of looking out into the heavens or back down on Earth.
Right now, the idea of sending robotic drilling operations to near-Earth asteroids, extracting water for powering interplanetary spaceships — and, by the way, turning that into a profitable business — sounds like pure science fiction. But to quote Planetary Resources' president and chief engineer, Chris Lewicki: "Everything is science fiction right up to the point that it's science fact."
Lewicki knows his way around an outer-space challenge. He's been involved in managing NASA's twin Mars rover missions as well as the Phoenix Mars Lander mission, which made the first on-the-spot observations of Red Planet water ice. Even by that scale, however, his new mission at Planetary Resources is special. It's not just a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. "Maybe once in a species, that kind of opportunity comes along," he told me.
The venture, which was hinted at last week and formally unveiled Tuesday at Seattle's Museum of Flight, is sufficiently down to Earth to attract funding from such A-list investors as Google CEO Larry Page, Google executive chairman Eric Schmidt, Texas billionaire Ross Perot Jr. and spacefaring software executive Charles Simonyi. Filmmaker James Cameron has signed on as a senior adviser.
Planetary Resources is the latest brainchild of Eric Anderson, whose company Space Adventures has helped millionaires and billionaires go on 10-day trips to the International Space Station; and Peter Diamandis, the motive force behind the multimillion-dollar X Prize program, the Rocket Racing League and the Zero G Corp.'s weightless-airplane tourist venture. Anderson and Diamandis serve as co-chairmen of the venture they co-founded.
Diamandis said Planetary Resources follows up on discussions that he and Anderson had starting about three years ago — and also follows up on a nearly lifelong ambition he's had.
"As a teenager, when I was asked what I wanted to be, I'd say, 'An asteroid miner,'" Diamandis told me.
Why mine asteroids?
Planetary Resources' ultimate goal is to set up a commercial infrastructure for fueling trips far beyond Earth orbit, with Planetary Resources controlling the equivalent of oil wells, refineries and filling stations in outer space. That's the long-term promise of near-Earth asteroids.
NASA file
An artist's conception shows a robotic mining operation on a near-Earth asteroid.
"A water-rich asteroid would greatly enhance the large-scale exploration of the solar system," Anderson said in a news release. "Water has many uses in space. For instance, it would not only be used for hydration, but also would be broken down into oxygen and hydrogen, for breathable air and rocket propellant."
But why go to all the trouble, when there's so much water on Earth? "It costs on the order of $20,000 per kilogram to get a liter of water into orbit," Diamandis explained. "If you're able to buy it on orbit for one-hundredth of the cost, that would be transformative."
Asteroids also could yield precious metals such as platinum, gold and rare-earth materials — treasures that are worth bringing back to Earth. Diamandis said a single asteroid in the range of 200 to 500 meters in diameter could contain more platinum-group metals than has ever been mined in the whole of human history.
"When the availability of these materials increases, the cost will reduce on everything, including defibrillators, hand-held devices, TV and computer monitors, catalysts; and with the abundance of these metals we'll be able to use them in mass production, like in automotive fuel cells," Diamandis said in the news release.
Humbler materials could be used for construction of deep-space facilities. "Even dirt is valuable as a radiation-shielding material," said former NASA astronaut Tom Jones, who got his Ph.D. in planetary sciences by researching remote-sensing techniques for asteroids. Jones is now serving as an adviser to the Planetary Resources team.
First launch in two years?
Building a commercial empire in outer space may be the long-range plan, but the short-term plan is closer to home. The first step to mining an asteroid is figuring out what's out there. To that end, Planetary Resources' first hardware project is what's known as the Arkyd-101 personal space telescope.
Planetary Resources
Planetary Resources has developed the Arkyd-101 space telescope with remote sensing capability, as shown in this artist's conception. Data gathered from near-Earth asteroids will assist in analyzing the composition of the body to determine a commercial value.
Lewicki hopes the personal space telescope will do for astronomy what the personal computer did for information technology. Planetary Resources plans to put the instrument into Earth orbit to survey the sky for potential targets — asteroids that come close enough to Earth often enough to make them reachable, and have a spectral signal that would make them good candidates for mining. The main target is C-type or carbonaceous asteroids, which are dark and not so easy to detect with existing instruments.
The Arkyd-101 telescope is designed to be launched on any of a variety of rockets, including the Russian Dnepr, the European Ariane, the Indian PSLV or the SpaceX Falcon, Lewicki said. It would have arcsecond resolution for astronomical observations, and if the camera were turned earthward, Lewicki said the resolution would be a "couple of meters per pixel," which comes close to the standard for commercial Earth imaging.
The key factor is the cost: Lewicki noted that an imaging instrument like NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer would typically cost hundreds of millions of dollars. "We're looking to go one to two orders of magnitude below that," he said.
Diamandis said that price reduction would significantly widen the market for orbiting telescopes. "We're in discussions with groups that might want to buy personal telescopes," he told me.
Another part of the Planetary Resources' early-phase business plan would be to strike a deal with NASA, under which the space agency would buy data about the spacecraft and astronomical observations. NASA may find such data useful for planning its own missions to near-Earth asteroids, culminating in manned flights in the 2020s. Similar data purchase deals were made a couple of years ago with several of the companies that are planning to put landers on the moon to win a share of the $30 million Google Lunar X Prize.
Thanks in part to technology development contracts with NASA and other partners, "the company is cash-flow positive at this point," Diamandis said.
He said about 20 engineers have already been hired to work for Planetary Resources, with operations based in Bellevue, Wash., east of Seattle. The need to advertise for more employees was one of the reasons why the company's principals decided it was time to go public with their plans, Diamandis said.
He and Lewicki are projecting the first launch of hardware in the 18- to 24-month time frame. Once the telescopes are up and running, the team will identify likely candidates for future missions. The top targets would be near-Earth asteroids that are energetically easier to reach than landing on the moon. Getting to those asteroids would require the development of additional spacecraft for the Arkyd product line, such as an in-space propulsion vehicle and an experimental resource-extraction package.
"Three, four, five years out, depending on trajectory, is when we envision getting up close and personal with an asteroid," Lewicki said.
Time for a reality check
Planetary Resources says space mining could "add trillions of dollars to the global GDP," but such an estimate assumes that there'll be a significant demand for the water, fuel and air produced in outer space. If NASA doesn't send out deep-space transports, or goes with a space propulsion system that doesn't require a periodic fill-up, that could reduce the projected demand for the materials that Planetary Resources aims to produce.
That doesn't faze Lewicki, however. Even if NASA doesn't turn into a buyer, "we've got a private interest in developing those resources," he said.
There's also a question about the part of the operation that would involve shipping platinum and other materials back to Earth. Platinum now costs more than $1,500 an ounce, but with current technology, the cost of launching a mining probe, extracting ore, processing the metal and returning it to Earth would almost certainly be more than that on a per-ounce basis.
"The question is, how does the economics come into this?" said Adam Bruckner, a professor of aeronautics and astronautics at the University of Washington. "Can it ultimately be less expensive to find it on an asteroid than to find it on Earth? At some point in the future — and it's debatable how far in the future — the two lines will cross."
Anderson acknowledged in a video statement that Planetary Resources would be an unconventional, long-term venture: "On a scale of 20 to 30 years, I envision the resources from space contributing a significant amount to the GDP of the planet — truly creating a world where one plus one equals three."
Bruckner noted that the idea of mining asteroids for water and other resources has been around for decades. Fourteen years ago, for example, a company called SpaceDev planned to take on a commercial deep-space mission to an asteroid. SpaceDev eventually abandoned the idea and turned its attention instead to the development of small satellites and hybrid rocket engines. In 2008, the company was acquired by Sierra Nevada Corp., which is currently receiving millions of dollars from NASA for spaceship development.
Bob Richards, co-founder and CEO of Moon Express Inc., one of the ventures competing for the Google Lunar X Prize, said he welcomed Planetary Resources' efforts but insisted that the moon was a better target for resource extraction than any near-Earth asteroid. Just today, Moon Express announced that it sent NASA a mission plan that eventually could lead to mining missions on the moon.
"I looked at this myself," Richards told me. "The energy argument doesn't trump the fact that we've sampled the moon and we know what's there. ... But it's a big universe. There are trillions of trillions of dollars in space resources, so there's enough room for a lot of players."
More about extraterrestrial investments:
- Google billionaires back space resource venture
- Could legal loophole lead to extraterrestrial land claims?
- Private property in outer space? It's debatable
- To infinity and beyond: Investing in space travel
- How to make the moon pay
This report was last updated at 3:40 p.m. ET.
Alan Boyle is msnbc.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter or adding Cosmic Log's Google+ page to your circle. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for other worlds.
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Fascinating stuff. Reminds me of a Heinlein book I read as a kid The Rolling Stones which was about a family who buys a rocket on the moon (where they grew up) and end up in a mining "town" in the asteroid belt.
Heinlein is a good read for those who want to see the future through the eyes of the past. (And yes some of his other works were a little perverted--it is not my intent to start that discussion).
Thanks.
He envisaged a lot of things that gradually coming to pass. In Podkayne of Mars he gave a perfect description of a cell phone that fitted in your pocket. Not bad for 1947. Up there with Clarke and his geosync comsat visions. I think the privatisation of space may be the long needed incentive for true exploration and utilisation of space resources to begin. Certainly the need for resources and even living space, away from the restrictions of a particular society (the Mayflower colonists were fleeing religious persecution if you remember). Heinlein speaks of a great diaspora, largely driven by the needs of free people to seek a home away from persecution (in Methusalah's Children, this is simply their longevity, which more ephemeral people covet) but the chance to live free, explore, colonise and make a living still apply. I'm pushing 56 and have type 2 diabetes, so it's unlikely I'll ever get a chance to participate, but if I could, I would.
"Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever."
As to perversions, he envisaged a (distant future) society where what we (rightly) class as perversions were not so any longer, largely due to changes in technology that made the reasons for them mostly irrelevant and partly due to the disappearance of organised religious beliefs with their controlling creeds of doing what $Deity says or going to hell when you die.
Some of his vision was certainly not everyone's cup of tea of course. Society and it's views change over time, and the views are particular to that society, and are often based to some degree on the religious faith of the majority. In the Western world, that's mostly Christianity, in the Middle East, it's mostly Islam. Heinlein, (through one of his characters) made it clear he had no religious faith but that being a minister was 'lovely work if you can stomach it'.
Perversioon takes many forms. In some societies right now, it's considered wrong not to remove a woman's sexually sensitive parts so that she is not tempted to stray. Other societies, like ours (western) consider it a truly barbaric perversion. (My view in fact). The exponents of it have been doing it so long it's 'traditional' and simply illustrates that their society considers women as little more than chattels, provided for the sexual relief of men and to allow reproduction.
Not THAT is perversion.
His visions of multiple parallel universes, where popular fiction literally created them was a huge leap of thought, however unlikely it might be. Like many great writers of that era, he envisioned such things quite clearly. It appears this may well be another 'hit'. I hope I live to see it up and running.
Even if it's after we are all long gone, these things will happen. It's not unsimilar to how humans have continued expansion here on earth. In space, they will move out a little at a time to make a living or find a better life, and then colonies will begin to populate regions in space. New discoveries and inventions will be made, including new elements to be found. It's the way it was always supposed to be.
There go them evil rich dudes again, investing money that could be better spent on Cowboy poetry and Solyndra!
I wonder what the insurance is going to be like on this stuff. Uncovered policy issue: Man discovers new element on asteroid, gets turned into a sponge, needs to drink blood of fellow astronauts to survive. I sincerely hope you folks get filthy rich on this venture; oh wait, you already are! Well, here's to looking forward to helping the "little people" who cannot contribute financially to this undertaking. Who do I call to invest? I'm the insurance man.
I, too, have always wanted to go out there, but:
"We pray for one last landing
On the globe that gave us birth;
Let us rest our eyes on fleecy skies
And the cool, green hills of Earth."
There go them evil rich dudes again, investing in a dream for the betterment of humanity. Wouldnt humanity be better served in the form of higher taxes so that Octomom could rear more children? Just think, if this does actually come into fruition, they will become even more wealthy...if that happens, they may want to colonize the moon or something! What a waste!
I would at least put a tracking devise on one to study its travels and when it may swing back around..You cant just jump off if it gets to close to the sun.
Skorned
Your right, these evil rich guys will sink billions into dreams and not help the little man. Hey wait a second: If the evil rich guys spend billions of dollars won't there be bunches of the little man being put to work?
So; let say Planetary Resources discover an asteroid that is pure gold ( I'm hypothesizing here) there would be little or no point in mining it as that amount of gold will subsequently lower the price to that of tin on earth.
Or: Lets say Planetary Resources discover some new rare earth that will allow us to (say) build a space craft that'll travel past the speed of light. As businessmen are they going to donate this the the peoples of earth, I think not.
Even if either case is true The Government (any, maybe all) will want a cut of the action, they will want to lease the asteroid, or at least the profits of the enterprise, even though they have not contributed a penny, nor have any rights to an off earth body.
If I was Planetary Resources I would make damn sure the leeches of and in the worlds governments are tied down big time before doing anything, which of course means the legal leeches will be lined up like beggars at a soup kitchen, ultimately being the only ones who actually profit from this enterprise!
By definition, "Near-Earth Objects" (NEO Asteroids) are in orbit around around the sun at a distance roughly the same as Earth's, so they don't ever get close to the sun.
The new space based telescopes being propose by this group of billionaires would be specifically designed to detect NEO's, 90% or more of which have not yet been discovered.
I hate to be the one to put a negative spin on things, because I really do love this sort of progress, but I sincerely hope that we don't turn into the type of humans that are portrayed on Avatar. If we do find intelligent life elsewhere in the universe and it is more primitive than us, are we going to crush them beneath our boot heel because they are in between us and some minerals that we would like to mine?
And forget the "goodguys always win" element of Hollywood movies. Look at real life and how humans treat each other right now. When a huge government or corporate entity finds a resource and there are people living on it, particularly a less technologically advanced and politically entrenched people, that entity will do whatever it takes to move those people to get at that resource. Quite often the victims (entire cities and villages) don't win in the end, and the land and water in the area they use to live becomes so polluted that it's impossible for anyone to live there any more.
Don't get me wrong, none of this is applicable to asteroid mining. I'm just thinking 12 steps ahead. You know, if the driving force behind space exploration is resource mining... I mean, we should have a driving force that gets us there, but let's be careful about what that driving force leads us to do, ethically.
Won't Happen!
for example: There's a little company called De Beers that holds a monopoly on diamonds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers
If they released all their product and allowed other to do so too diamonds would be cheaper than dirt instantly.
Capitalists ain't stupid!
Thars gold in them thar asteroids. Just release it a little at a time and don't tell anyone how much you brought back.
just like DeBeers
lets keep our eyes on the prise. The people involved have the money. It's clearly their capitil and not government. The tec is not new. The jobe is well planed. If you see a gap in the plane they got it covered.
My point, Ball bearings made is space can be made and deliverd faster. many Other grean new practices will be descovered ones able to. Smart people plan big.
Move out there!
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself. - L.L.
Mr. Kitagawa -
The gravity well will work exceedingly well for delivering those ball bearings right on top of the factory that ordered them.
With commodity prices nosediving on Earth, what sense does it make to bring in more stuffs from space? That would only accelerate the presently ongoing collapse.
What commodity prices are nosediving? Not the precious or semi-precious or "rare earth" metals, despite their price volatility. Granted, it will be many years before asteroid mining becomes practical, but it likely will happen.
Yes, cheap commodities is horrible. Think of all those low cost goods poor people could buy if things became too cheap. Imagine the horror if the third world had access to high end X-rays and MRI machines. I shudder at the thought. Imagine if we broke the monopoly China has on rare earth elements.
Optimist--Surly you joke--with the exception of US natgas an related stuff I can't think of many commodities that are "nosediving". Obviously YOU missed out on the run-up in Gold, Silver, Platinum, hmmm? lol
Sounds like someone has lots of money in commodoties.. lol
i would love to know how to do some type of work that could get me working on this project i mean this could be the beginning of our rise into the stars and then end of our worries over resources. just hope their ready for pirates because it wont be to long before everyone wants to be a star cowboy. then the rich will dump off there new toys when they bore of them and they'll get picked up eventually by tech savy thieves who dream of the stars. then the new wild west will begin. i just hope this doesn't have any delays. i fear earths days with out galactic resources are severely numbered.
Some one was over 'optimistic' about natgas and coal--perhaps they thought those would track with oil like they used to?, hehehe. But we won't find those on asteroids anyway.
What exactly is the problem with understanding that anything launched into space from Earth's gravity well costs $20,000/pound. It means that of one pound of water were found in an icy asteroid it would save $20K, 10 lbs. saves $200K, 100 labs $2,000K ... The fuel used by the Saturn V in 150 seconds saves $90 Billion.
Second challenge to common sense, if you found sources of water and used to make fuel then you would not be able to send fuel back the Earth for the simple reason above, AND it is really valuable in space, uses like getting more water and making more energy.
The purpose of finding water and making energy first is to leverage those investments to than take the mineral rich asteroid iron/nickel and refine it, again upscale the water/fuel enterprise.
The Economy of space is not connected to Wall Street valuations; Economy of Space is measured in Energy, if anyone seriously wanted a gold standard for a monetary system (currency that) who on "earth" would not be measured in units energy.
One, Two, Three
One - Set as an objective a visit to water bearing asteroid, using vehicle that is capable of taking in water, of converting that water to fuel, of obtaining a cargo, and returning it, leaving the conversion apparatus to continue to mine and convert water to fuel and store it until the next visit.
Two - Set as an objective the use of space refueled vehicle(s) to speed up the flight times, to carry additional conversion units, storage units, and then a facility to process found materials into additional conversion and storage hardware units, return flights will then fuel additional fast flights bringing additional manufacturing and vital components to utilize the processed materials.
Three - Now you have created a high energy fuel source, it is a system that expands and renews itself, in the traffic to and from the initial station, it might dawn on you that the fuel you made can be used effectively to propel all the fast missions you plan to use.
(Here's where the plan will go wrong: The plan will not be understood as simple and workable, then a design committee will met all the requirements, then the budget committee will attempt to accomplish the whole project with one rocket launch, and the project will end within one election cycle, the Air Force will want a new spy satellite, and in small compartment the Asteroid Energy Station weigh 3 pounds and sent a onetime message back, "I'm here awaiting orders")
Why the hell would anyone not an idiot, comment so stupidly, without having read at the least 3 of 10,000 articles readily on internet, there are articles 40 years old available.
Yeah the economy is collapsing, that's why Starbucks are all turning into homeless shelters. The money is disappearing alright, into the pockets of the douche bags that are telling you the economy is collapsing. That way you blame people who have nothing to do with it and support the thieves while they pick your pocket and then use the money to buy the authorities that would otherwise throw them down a hole. Yea I think there are giant deposits of stupidity in those asteroids. They are for sale to the lowest common denominator.
I must be in outer space, because charts on Earth clearly show a nasty general downtrend in metals and other commodities since the last year or two. Moreover, currently it would take far less energy and cost to extract resources from seawater, the seafloor and Earth's inner core, even if all of this remains impractical. Unless we invent some breakthrough technologies, such as anti-gravity or zero-point energy, the billionaires wishing to be entertained will need to find other amusements. Real advancement will come from humans migrating into space, not from bringing space to Earth.
D. D. Harriman grunted. "We won't see it if we sit on our fat behinds and don't do anything to make it happen. But we can make it happen."
Anyone been base jumping from Harriman Towers?
It's not that the precious metals commodities are getting cheaper here on earth. It the fact that the cost of putting it into space is astronomical. This can be the stepping stone to a space faring economy where not only are the minerals and water are extracted and refined in space, but also products and services are accomplished in space as well. Build it and they will come.
Imagine: With space mining why not build semi-automated satellite factories in space? The need to launch from earth will still be required to sustain and rotate out crews that maintain and operate those space factories, but the precious metal commodities will come from asteroids and the moon. Those same factories can literally be the Geek Squad for every satellite currently in orbit that is in need of repair or upgrade.
Imagine an economy where there is a requirement to safely retrieve a satellite to deliver it to the refurbishment facility in orbit where technicians can disassemble the satellite and repair it in orbit with the latest components manufactured in space from those materials fabricated in space from the minerals and metals mined and refined from space. You extended the life of that satellite so there is no need to build a new one, ($$$ saved) and you placed it back in its proper orbit so no need to launch from Earth's gravity well ($$$ saved)...
There can be separate or multiple companies that only mines, refines, fabricates, manufactures, satellite salvage retrieval, satellite repairs, satellite emplacement operations, and even orbital debris cleanup. not to mention the hotel conglomerates that will want the iron ore and other metals to have fabricated on-site so the can build space-based hotels. Anything they don't have to launch from earth will save them millions. Other start-up companies will include the amusement park industry (probably mated up with the hotel conglomerates) to give space tourists something to do for amusement...
But you got to start somewhere. Take a look at how we settled North America in the Wild West- everyone was searching for gold. Some found it, others found silver and in time we even found platinum and uranium. It was out of necessity that we found what we were looking for. Strongly believe we will draw some parallels from history albeit in the 21st century...and in space...
Questions, comments, criticisms?
Fro examples of successful business in space also see:
The Life And Times of Delos D. Harriman, Anthony Truphan, Biodegradable Press, Oshkosh Falls, 1998
Mr. Donkey - (that name makes me smile)
A "critic" is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this: he is unbiased -- he hates all creative people equally. - L.L.
Try reading the article Optimist. Exploiting resources outside of our gravity well makes the development of our solar system much more cost effective. Commodity prices are a roller coaster, with all the speculation; there is no collapse. But there is only a finite amount of resources on the planet, with fascinating materials development processes available in low / zero gravity which will drastically reduce the cost of goods in our near future.
if we are not there, we will watch China and India exploit these resources while America fades into the history books.
Even Stars bun out eventually. America has done a good job for a few centuries, and maybe it's time to pass the torch. I don't really care which flag gets planted on new worlds so long as it's planted by human hands.
Steve : There should be plenty for everyone no need to get greedy!
There may be plenty for everyone, but as usual, only a select few will own most of it. Do you think all these billionaires are investing money only to share the windfall with everyone else? Human nature isn't likely to change just because the path to riches is now in space. If anything, this effort may well be the initial strides in the race towards the title of humanity's first trillionaire.
Optimist; when you buy a cell phone or a car etc. with your money who owns it ?
Some of these are Amazing Stories!
Ownership is transitive, so those who own you also own all your belongings. Chances are your owners include Big Business and the MIC.
The greatest productive force is human selfishness. - L.L.
Mr. Optimist -
Anything free is worth what you pay for it.
It looks like a giant tan Minolta facing the wrong way.
Is it a place money can be spent to make more money? Yes. Is it a place money can be spent where no humans will benefit? Yes. Is it a place where space will be filthed up? Yes. Is it a place where corporations will begin to develop their "assumed claims to property outside our atmosphere? Yes.
Oh, then OF COURSE, THERE WILL BE ASTEROID MINING!
How exactly will space be 'filthed up', please?
Really Karen, no humans will benefit? You DO realize, do you not, that every dime invested in this project will be spent right here on earth, yes? The money will create jobs, foster technologies development, perhaps even inspire more than a few young people to seek out science and engineering degrees in order to join in the adventure.
And yes, people will make money of the venture; while at the same time greatly lowering the cost of producing clean energy and advanced medical technologies, thus making them more accessible to people who currently can't afford them. Sounds like a definite benefit to humanity in my book.
Space is pretty much impossible to filth up. The only real example of this is the clutter of sats, living and dead, in orbit, mostly LEO. That's an issue. As to space itself, we could lose the entire EARTH in Jupiter and it would probably be un noticeable. The asteroids are simply lumps of rock. There are no food chains or biospheres to pollute or destroy, no animals to hunt to extinction or wipe out when their habitats are removed. If we could move the mining industry wholly or even mostly into space (not LEO but space such as the Asteroid belt or even the moon) the reduction in pollution and loss of resources and habitat etc etc would possibly be the salvation of us all. It's not a matter of moving to another earth and starting over, but a completely barren environment, where waste disposal iis mostly recycling (organic material is gold in space) and non organic manufactured goods are even more valuable because of what they cost to get them there - sufficient to make it very desirable to get manufacturing going. If you accumulate too much stuff you don't want, you strap it together, bolt a couple of solid fuel rockets (or use a tug or even a linear accelerator on a biggish asteroid) and launch it into the gravity well of something that will swallow it whole without a ripple. The sun being a possible and Jupiter or Saturn, which have been the gravity powered cleaning crews of the solar system since, well, since there was a solar system. Pollution? What pollution?
The Sun's reaction rate is sensitive to the amount of metals, this is the only Sun we have!
Yeah, I used to be a supporter of the "Solar Garbage Disposal" idea, but I don't know if I'd want to play around with that, even as big as the Sun is. Send our junk to Jupiter instead; the Jovians won't mind one bit.
Penguin, I don't think you realize just how large the sun is. If we were to drop an object the size of Earth into the sun made out of iron, nothing would happen. If anything, the suns lifetime would be prolonged, by the iron acting as a control element.
All the asteroid's are "owned" by the people of our Solar System or just Earth if we are the only one's. Why should We The People allow a for-profit company to exploit the resources that are owned by all of us, for free? Just because they get there first? I bet in 200 years those resources would benefit more then just a single Billionaire but just because some jerk has money he gets to steal our future resources for profit?
At least admit you are a socialist. No one can answer you questions or have any kind of civil discussion about them if you do not admit that fact first.
Cool Mike.
This will benefit everybody and in years, not centuries.
When do you expect our congress would get on the ball and develope anything in space.
robtzu:
Why would you think he is a socialist?
The concept that natural resources belong to the people via their government is already the law in the US.
Also, you seem to think that being a socialist is some dirty secret that people have to be forced to admit. Socialism is neither a sin nor a crime. The only socialist I ever met were proud of themselves.
You probably need to be reminded that greed is not a virtue -- it's a vice. Most Americans have beef confused about this for the past 30 years.
What makes you think that "we" own space? What gives you the right to own any property on earth? Your car, bed, or anything for that matter?
Even nations have territorial boundaries that prevent others from stealing resources. If someone spends the resources to bring back things of value from space then they have a right to steak claim to it, just like you have a right to the soil that is on your peice of property, which was at one point claimed by someone.
Ownership is a claim to something and the ability to inflict suffering on those who would refute it. These asteroids aren't "owned" by anyone. That's not socialisim, it's naive.
Eh? Because that's how it's been done throughout human history. What did you have in mind?
If people invest their resources in something that is risky, then they deserve to get a return on their investment if it's viable. If it's not viable, they lose their resources.
I'm not sure what other way would work. Are you suggesting that anything beyond Earth is the collective property of the entire population of the world (or just the USA judging by the We The People bit - I would have thought a US citizen would have understood Capitalism and entrepreneurship.)
I suggest you get back to basics and read Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith.
The lesson of history is that real estate that is untenanted (or even when it is - the Native Americans and the Australian Aborigines being cases in point) is taken over and exploited by whoever gets there first and defends it from being taken by others, until it becomes 'theirs'. This still doesn't prevent it being taken over by others by sheer military conflict. Consider the Dutch East Indies, or as you know it now, Indonesia. It was 'owned' by the Dutch until the Japanese took it over, then later it became an independent nation.
It seems to me you read too little history and little or nothing on economics - someone has to pay for the exploitation of resources beyond the Earth if it's to happen. Govts have done the initial exploration with the resources of the Crown/Govt. Any number of examples - Columbus had a royal sponsor - though they expected to profit greatly from the venture - and did ultimately - someone has to start the ball rolling - then the private entrepreneurs moved in. That happened all over the world. Now it's about to happen in space. You can either help or get out of the way.
GR Please reread Adam Smith, and Malthus and then compare with modern economics and Marx's early works. This the text book crap taught in schools and mostly out of date or badly interpreted. There are some very good reasons not ... to believe them.
Harriman Enterprises will conquer these problems and show a profit.
Socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
-merriam webster dictionary.
Cool Mike Pro: "All the asteroid's are "owned" by the people of ... Earth
That is a socialist statement. Period.
Claiming that I think socialism is a "dirty word" can in no way be reasonably infered from my post. Property rights are the absolute heart of this discussion and how they are excerised is the heart of Cool Mike's post. Everything is just window dressing and would have everyone arguing across each other, because they would actually be arguing about property rights implicitly and banging heads on "greed" etc.
Cool Mike Pro -
Outer Space Treaty - “The activities of non-governmental entities in outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty.” The Outer Space Treaty demands that we do this. Depending on how we regulate activities of US entities, we can bootstrap a private property regime by only granting a single US entity the right to exploit a certain tract on Mars. We will be expanding an American way of doing business into space.
Congratulations for planning for the future while America nosedives into the middle ages.
The absolute best of luck, you deserve it.
Interesting. I didn't think the earth was already "spent," as it may be more cost effective to mine distant asteroids, maybe if most of it were done robotically.
One major benefit from mining asteroids is that it won't pollute the Earth, d'oh!
To quote Yakov Smiroff, "What a great country!" This is why we need billionaires. The free market encourages the craziest stuff that moves us ahead.
Limited government, free market.
God bless America.
Work hard, take care of your own health, screw government control.
You're being sarcastic right?...right
Once they figure out it's going to take billions to get the space resources, they are going to flip the telescopes around and use them to spy on people and burn ants.
At those distances those telescopes could probably burn up small towns....
"Spy on people" doing what? Commenting on articles on MSNBC whilst sipping a latte? Nobody cares what you are doing.
Well at least we won't have worry about saving the planet.
I'm thinking how much materials could be hauled with little effort, and stored in outer space easily they could move billions of pounds of materials with just one ship in space, and have plenty of free rent space to store it until it was needed to use on earth! they could easily bring a hundred year supply at one time!
Will profits be made I think so!
Dale:
Per my current understanding it costs $10000 to carry each pound of stuff into orbit. Once in orbit, and then sailing to some asteroid and shipping materials back costs way less?
Once in orbit the costs become minimal for robotic vehicles unless you want things moved around in a hurry. But it could easily be paid for by one major precious metals haul and fuel could be harvested. It's much cheaper and easier (still not easy but easier) to bring materials, especially metals back than ship them out.
Take a look at Ion Engines. With no gravity or air resistance to overcome, things can be moved great distances with very little energy. Imagine if instead of building a giant space station on earth and flying it up, we did all the mining and manufacturing in zero-g around the asteroid and sent it over.
On the right track, but take it a step further, find a biggish asteroid, mine it out, build installations on the surface and then extend them underground as you mine it. Make the asteroid the space station. Far bigger, safer from impacts from small bodies (even a bit of scrap from a sat is a threat to the ISS) and, most important, sixty feet or so of metal rich rocky asteroid is excellent radiation shielding. You don't build a space station around an asteroid, you make the asteroid the space station. Even the early scifi authors envisaged this. Why build a hull when all you have to do is dig as big an interior as you need, and you can dig more and add to it when/if it's not meeting your needs. Have a look at the dugouts in Coober Pedy and similar places, exactly the same principle, they went mining, and used the mined out parts as a habitat to continue mining. Have kids and need another room? No problem, just mine out a wall and line it, instant room. Some of the dugouts are luxurious in the extreme. The only threat to them would be a major earthquake or some equally catastrophic. The only additions on an asteroid would be air, water and sanitation, (nuclear power or solar depending where it was) the solutions to those need to be provided, but it's doable.
Ion engines might take 2,000 years and require a initial launch.
Ion Thrusters are already in use in various earth satellites and other space missions within our solar system. The application is limited but it's already being used.
Check this out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster
Why is asteroid mining better than Earth mining?
Nothing lives on asteroids.
Only qualification ... use every single part of the asteroid. No waste, No pollution. Cool?
In the future, if an asteroid threatens Earth, and if we're able to detect it with enough advance time to do something about it, I imagine we could go up there and mine it out as we deflect its path. "Turn lemons into lemonade," you might say. Why fear it, when you can convert it into something good that benefits many that can use it, back on Earth, and in space.
Au contraire, we may have to redirect a near miss to a certain hit to save the planet.
lets not forget the potential for great science here, too. The asteroid belt represents the absolute raw materials of the original solar system.
First we need to launch Space Artist in to space, not fair but think of it, who else would spend time on a such a picture, other that a vaccum clearner salesman?
And a Chaplain to handle the increased marriages.
Is that telescope picture a joke?? Looks just like my old '70s vintage Pentax SLR with gold paint on it.
This is great!
Not every great idea get a boost after 40 years.
Yes, we don't need more space junk or leftover stuff from asteroid mining orbiting in space. They will have to consider how to keep it a clean operation. Their new telescope idea is good.
Leave it where it found out among the asteroids>
I don't think you comprehend just how big space is. At the distances we're talking about, I could dump an aircraft carrier in space, and it would never be found.
It'd be like Where's Waldo?
Some Guy -
'NULL PROGRAM - REPEAT - WAITING FOR PROGRAM"
The obvious choices will likely be Gold, the Platinum Group of metals and rare earths. Water may be worth something if hydrogen is used to power spaceships. Whether it takes 20 years or 200 years make no differnce. The earth will run out of resources. All natural resources are finite on the earth. The Platinum group of metals are highly desirable because of their use in a variety of industrial purposes and more likely will be developed. The problem of course is that this group is fairly rare on the earth in any large deposit. Currently, the only operating Platinum mine in the U.S. is the Stillwater mine in Montana. Rare earths are just that very rare and currently China is the major supplier of rare earths and we know what that means.
Earth bound nano composite technology could replace the uses of the precious metals.
With a little careful thought, the Earth has already mined enough gold for technological uses, yes its time to quit wasting energy on gold mining. (But aren't we really mining greed?)
Sign me up, I'm ready and more than willing to invest my time and what little money I have, into this program, hook me up. Being a Technician I can be a valuable asset to this type of program.
Ok here's the deal design an inflatable light weight solar dish having a spherical reflector, with a three inflatable boom arrangement holding a "brayton cycle" power generator. Post inflatable design stabilization for long term use. A purely inflatable design solar disk weighs < 45,000 lbs, would fit a shuttle bay, and makes 45 MW.
I built some shelves once out of cinder blocks and plywood. My services are available for the right price.
More tax write offs for the billionaires.
Not if we stop taxing them, poor babies.
What exactly is the problem with understanding that anything launched into space from Earth's gravity well costs $20,000/pound. It means that of one pound of water were found in an icy asteroid it would save $20K, 10 lbs. saves $200K, 100 labs $2,000K ... The fuel used by the Saturn V in 150 seconds saves $90 Billion.
Second challenge to common sense, if you found sources of water and used to make fuel then you would not be able to send fuel back the Earth for the simple reason above, AND it is really valuable in space, uses like getting more water and making more energy.
The purpose of finding water and making energy first is to leverage those investments to than take the mineral rich asteroid iron/nickel and refine it, again upscale the water/fuel enterprise.
The Economy of space is not connected to Wall Street valuations; Economy of Space is measured in Energy, if anyone seriously wanted a gold standard for a monetary system (currency that) who on "earth" would not be measured in units energy.
One, Two, Three
One - Set as an objective a visit to water bearing asteroid, using vehicle that is capable of taking in water, of converting that water to fuel, of obtaining a cargo, and returning it, leaving the conversion apparatus to continue to mine and convert water to fuel and store it until the next visit.
Two - Set as an objective the use of space refueled vehicle(s) to speed up the flight times, to carry additional conversion units, storage units, and then a facility to process found materials into additional conversion and storage hardware units, return flights will then fuel additional fast flights bringing additional manufacturing and vital components to utilize the processed materials.
Three - Now you have created a high energy fuel source, it is a system that expands and renews itself, in the traffic to and from the initial station, it might dawn on you that the fuel you made can be used effectively to propel all the fast missions you plan to use.
(Here's where the plan will go wrong: The plan will not be understood as simple and workable, then a design committee will met all the requirements, then the budget committee will attempt to accomplish the whole project with one rocket launch, and the project will end within one election cycle, the Air Force will want a new spy satellite, and in small compartment the Asteroid Energy Station weigh 3 pounds and sent a onetime message back, "I'm here awaiting orders")
Why the hell would anyone not an idiot, comment so stupidly, without having read at the least 3 of 10,000 articles readily on internet, there are articles 40 years old available.
Thanks for the comments.