Two studies show 'weird life' microbe can't live on arsenic

Why was this such a big deal to begin with? In this "Last Word" video from December 2010, MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell discusses the arsenic-life controversy with Bill Nye the Science Guy.


A year and a half after one team of researchers claimed they had bred a type of bacteria that could live on arsenic, suggesting that life is weirder than we imagine, two other teams have found that the microbe really doesn't do anything with the arsenic after all.

These two teams say that the microbe, known as GFAJ-1, is somewhat weird, due to the fact that it can survive amid ultra-high concentrations of arsenic. But they confirm the widely held view among microbiologists that GFAJ-1 did not rewrite the existing rules of life — an extraordinary claim that was implied by the initial study, which made a huge splash in December 2010.

"The new research clearly shows that the bacterium, GFAJ-1, cannot substitute arsenic for phosphorus," the journal Science, which published the initial findings as well as today's follow-up studies, said in an editorial statement.


Case closed?
One of the authors of the new research, University of British Columbia microbiologist Rosie Redfield, was among the most outspoken critics of the original study — and she said that as far as she was concerned, today's publication closes the case. "This isn't an area I have any special interest in, or any funding for," she told me in an email.

Over the past 19 months, Redfield has focused on the analysis of GFAJ-1's DNA more as a case study in open science — a perspective that focuses on freely sharing the results of the research process as they come to light. The study that she and her colleagues authored has been available for months on the ArXiv pre-print website. (The other study, conducted by researchers at ETH Zurich in Switzerland, became public just today.)

Science's editors decided to time today's online publication of the two studies to coincide with a talk that Redfield was due to give at a conference in Ottawa on evolutionary biology. Redfield said last week on her blog that she'd be discussing the results of her group's research, including the Science paper, during her talk. When I contacted her on Friday about the impending publication, she expressed surprise that the journal accelerated its publishing schedule.

"What? No!" she wrote in an initial email. "Must be because of my Evolpalooza talk that night."

The print version of the papers released tonight are to appear in Science later this month.

In the past, the lead researcher for the original study of GFAJ-1, Felisa Wolfe-Simon, has declined to comment in detail about the follow-up experiments that have raised questions about her group's work. She has said such comments would have to wait until those experiments were described in peer-reviewed research articles. But due to the publication in Science, Wolfe-Simon responded to my emailed inquiries at greater length.

She acknowledged that the follow-up experiments failed to find evidence that compounds containing arsenic, known as arsenates, were being taken up into the molecular machinery of GFAJ-1's life processes, such as DNA. However, she said those experiments were apparently conducted under conditions that differed from those surrounding the original experiment.

"We do not know the history of the cells in these new papers," she wrote. "In general, it requires more evidence to publish something unexpected — e.g., that cells can thrive in arsenic and that arsenate is found inside the cells, than something that everyone expects — e.g. that arsenate is not found inside cells or DNA.

"Our original work and data was in fact given high scrutiny, as standards are almost always higher for evidence for things that are unexpected. We are actively following the arsenic in our cells and will know more in the next few months." (The full email exchange is laid out in a comment below.)

Sensationalism and skepticism
The original point of the arsenic-life experiment was to see whether organisms on Earth could be coaxed to use arsenic, which generally acts as a poison, in place of phosphorus, which is generally seen as one of the essential chemical building blocks of life. The structure of those two elements on the atomic level is similar, which is a big reason why substituting one for the other is so lethal.

If some types of organisms, even bacteria, could live on arsenic, that would upset the mainstream view of how life works. Such a finding, if confirmed, would potentially lead to a wider search for "weird life" — not only on Earth, but also in extraterrestrial environments such as the Martian subsurface or the hydrocarbon lakes of Titan.

Wolfe-Simon and her colleagues conducted their search for arsenic-eating life by taking samples from the arsenic-rich sediments of California's Mono Lake, then turning up the dial on the arsenic and turning down the dial on the phosphorus in their laboratory's cell cultures. They isolated a strain of bacteria that grew in a setting with ultra-high concentrations of arsenic and seemingly negligible amounts of phosphorus. (The strain's name, GFAJ-1, stands for "Give Felisa a Job.")

Analysis of the cells led them to conclude that arsenic was being used in place of phosphorus, even in GFAJ-1's DNA molecules. The findings created a sensation when they were announced. "We're talking about an organism that we think ... is replacing phosphorus with arsenic," Mary Voytek, the head of NASA's astrobiology program, said at the time. "This is a huge deal."

The case sparked a huge backlash as well. Many scientists questioned the results — not only in comments to journalists, but also in blog postings and Twitter updates. Redfield suspected that the detection of arsenic was due to sample contamination rather than an uptake into DNA molecules. The experiment in which she was involved, conducted with Princeton's Marshall Louis Reaves as lead researcher, reported finding "only trace amounts of free arsenate" and no chemically bound arsenic compounds in the DNA samples they extracted from GFAJ-1.

In their Science paper, the researchers say the reason for the dramatically different results "is not clear," but they also note that "differences in DNA purity can readily explain" the discrepancies.

How GFAJ-1 works
The other study published today, with ETH Zurich's Tobias Erb as lead author, takes a wide-angle view of GFAJ-1, using mass spectrometry and other tools to trace the bacteria's chemical processes on the molecular level. They found that the microbes could grow with even less phosphorus than the tiny amount that was provided in the experiments by Wolfe-Simon and her colleagues. But when the phosphorus concentration was reduced to nearly nothing (less than 0.3 micromolar), no growth was observed.

Some arsenic compounds formed in the culture, but at a level that was more likely associated with non-biological chemical processes, Erb and his colleagues said. They noted that such compounds are also found in garden-variety E. coli bacteria when they're grown in cultures containing arsenic. This suggests that the detection of arsenic-containing compounds "might not be of physiological relevance," they wrote.

The two groups of researchers acknowledged that there was something extraordinary about GFAJ-1, in that it could grow amid ridiculously high concentrations of arsenic — roughly an order of magnitude higher than previously seen for other organisms, the Swiss-based scientists said. "The molecular basis for arsenate resistance in GFAJ-1 might be the subject of further investigations," they wrote.

It's also noteworthy that GFAJ-1 could survive amid ridiculously low concentrations of phosphorus. Wolfe-Simon and her colleagues said that was because the bacteria switched to metabolizing arsenic. But Reaves, Redfield and their colleagues said it was more likely that GFAJ-1 used a metabolic mechanism to enrich the tiny amount of phosphorus it could grab onto.

More research ahead
In her emails, Wolfe-Simon said the data reported in the newly published research did not contradict the thrust of her own studies, which are continuing. She said it's possible that the arsenic compounds taken up by GFAJ-1 become less stable "once cells are broken open."

"We expect to have our own results ready for publication in the next few months," she wrote. "We are focused on the questions, 'Where exactly is the arsenate going?' and 'How does this microbe survive in high arsenate?' These results will speak to the flexibility of the periodic table for life, so [they] merit the most thorough and careful analysis we can achieve."

In their statement, Science's editors took a different perspective.

"The new research shows that GFAJ-1 does not break the long-held rules of life, contrary to how Wolfe-Simon had interpreted her group's data," they said. "The scientific process is a naturally self-correcting one, as scientists attempt to replicate published results. Science is pleased to publish additional information on GFAJ-1, an extraordinarily resistant organism that should be of interest for further study, particularly related to arsenic-tolerant mechanisms."

Redfield agreed that GFAJ-1 was worthy of further study, even if she's not going to be doing it. "I think all organisms turn out to have interesting tweaks," she told me in her email. "We certainly know very little about the biology of GFAJ-1, and there are complications I never sorted out."

So just how big of a deal did the "arsenic life" controversy turn out to be? To my mind, the case seems likely to take its place among the other great disputed claims in science, ranging from cold fusion to Martian nanofossils and the missing-link primate. It also feeds into the debate over the best ways to distribute and verify scientific findings. Lots of folks will be weighing in on these questions over the next day or two, and you can have the last word in the comment section below.

Previous chapters in the weird-life saga:


In addition to Reaves and Redfield, the authors of "Absence of Detectable Arsenate in DNA from Arsenate-Grown GFAJ-1 Cells" include Sunita Sinha, Joshua D. Rabinowitz and Leonid Kruglyak.

In addition to Erb, the authors of "GFAJ-1 Is an Arsenate-Resistant, Phosphate-Dependent Organism" include Patrick Kiefer, Bodon Hattendorf, Detlef Günther and Julia A. Vorholt.

Science said the two papers, along with an editorial statement, were being released at 8 p.m. ET July 8 "to coincide with a related conference." That was a reference to Redfield's talk at the Evolution Ottawa conference.

Alan Boyle is msnbc.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.

Discuss this post

Here's an edited version of the email exchange I had with Felisa Wolfe-Simon on Friday and Saturday.

From me:

Felisa and friends: I wanted to check with you for perspective on the paper from Redfield et al. that is being published over the weekend. Now that the paper is coming out (which, as far as I can tell, is the latest version posted to arXiv), you may want to comment on it and also provide an update on the work with GFAJ-1.

From Felisa:

Always nice to hear from you. Thank you for your continued interest in our work. A great thing about science is that the ability to do rigorous tests with controls provides an increasingly accurate knowledge of life and the universe that is extremely useful. There is nothing in the data of these new papers that contradicts our published data, which is also consistent with our current results. Our work continues to build upon our finding of extreme resistance to arsenate toxicity and the unexpected uptake of arsenate in the GFAJ-1 cells in the absence of added phosphate. So we're systematically examining how organisms can survive when challenged by toxic elements such as arsenate.

We are working rigorously with controls to deal with both accurate identifications and the possible increased instability of arsenates once cells are broken open.

We expect to have our own results ready for publication in the next few months. We are focused on the questions, Where exactly is the arsenate going? and How does this microbe survive in high arsenate? These results will speak to the flexibility of the periodic table for life so merit the most thorough and careful analysis we can achieve.

From me:

Thanks so much for the quick response, Felisa: Your original Science paper said your measurements "specifically demonstrated that purified DNA extracted from +As/-P [high-arsenic, low-phosphorus] cells contained As [arsenic]." But my reading of the Redfield paper is that they found no As [arsenic] incorporated in the DNA. That seems contradictory to me, but maybe I'm missing something. To paraphrase the late Phil Hartman, I'm just a caveman journalist. ;-) Could you please help me sort out that seeming contradiction?

From Felisa:

You have a sharp eye for details, we can appreciate that! (No caveman here.) We have only had these two papers a few hours, it is challenging to read them quickly and think deeply about results, conclusions, etc. while also attending to our own work. So, we're happy to help clarify and thankful you've given us a chance.

In our experiments with no added phosphate, we saw evidence consistent with arsenate associated with the DNA and/or being incorporated into biomolecules. We know from chemistry that arsenate in biomolecules may be quite unstable once cells are broken. The new papers do find a surprising tolerance to arsenate under their conditions and that the cells grow better with added phosphate, data which are consistent with our original paper. Yet, the new papers fail to find much arsenate anywhere. So the questions remain - where does the arsenic go? and how to these cells thrive in lethal concentrations of arsenic? These are important questions.

Arsenic tolerance is important on Earth - arsenic was washed up in Japan by the recent tsunami and is in the ground water in the U.S. and in India, see http://water.usgs.gov/nawqa/trace/arsenic/. Arsenic and phosphates are associated in eroded environments where we would wish to mine rare-earth elements that are critical for many advanced technologies. Microbes, such as GFAJ-1, that take up arsenic may be key for environmentally friendly access to rare-earth elements.

Arsenate tolerance is important for the broader use of elements in the chemistry of life. Geochemical processes create dissolved minerals, and metabolic effort can balance minerals between the environment and the interior of cells. Yet, virtually nothing is known about biological uses for arsenic or rare-earth elements. Establishing the spectrum of elements employed by life processes in terrestrial microbes that inhabit diverse and extreme environments will inform the range of elemental biochemistries that have evolved here on Earth and inform the extent to which life may adapt to elements on other planets.

Thanks again for letting us clarify!

From me:

Thanks so much, Felisa, appreciate the response. I guess the issue is indeed "where does the arsenic go" ... You say the evidence you saw was consistent with the arsenate being associated with the DNA and/or being incorporated into biomolecules, while the other experimenters found that the bacteria were arsenic-tolerant, but did not appear to incorporate the arsenates into their biomolecules. Does that suggest that the evidence you found relating to incorporation may require another explanation, and that's where we get into the "missing arsenic" mystery? Or do you and your colleagues continue to maintain that the arsenate was incorporated, and for some reason, perhaps due to a difference in the procedure, that just didn't happen in the other experiments?

I realize this is a tricky subject to navigate, and really appreciate your taking the time to explain all this.

From Felisa:

Thank you again for your interest. We found data for arsenate in the cells. In our experiments with no added phosphate, we saw evidence consistent with arsenate associated with and/or being incorporated into biomolecules. Importantly, our data suggested this was a very small amount of arsenate. Our cells have been continually maintained in arsenic conditions and grow without added phosphate. We have reproduced these results at LBL - so these data were reproduced in a different lab multiple times. Not finding the small amount of arsenate that may be incorporated could depend upon many factors, so we are also working hard on this problem.

The other papers seem to have different conditions and different assays and fail to find arsenate. We do not know the history of the cells in these new papers. In general, it requires more evidence to publish something unexpected - e.g. that cells can thrive in arsenic and that arsenate is found inside the cells, than something that everyone expects - e.g. that arsenate is not found inside cells or DNA.

Our original work and data was in fact given high scrutiny as standards are almost always higher for evidence for things that are unexpected. We are actively following the arsenic in our cells and will know more in the next few months. So we continue to maintain that we will go with what the data say as we pursue the most careful and systematic study possible.

That's really all we can tell you.

  • 10 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Jul 8, 2012 8:08 PM EDT

>Our original work and data was in fact given high scrutiny

Lies. When the claim was initially made, the cells were never exposed to synchrotron radiation for verification of arsenic in DNA, as it should have been done. X-ray analysis can easily tell you what's happening to the arsenic.

  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Sun Jul 8, 2012 10:03 PM EDT

Anything is possible. Life can exist in many ways. Nay sayers at first are always loudest, not to prove a point, but to shut up their opponent.

Only time and testing will tell the truth.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 12:08 PM EDT

AB-1981,

Ad hominem attacks are inappropriate and actually are a strong indication that your "analysis" is bulls++t. Wolfe-Simon was subjected to incredible personal attacks and I see they are still going on. There is an old rule from the Morse-Cope days that says "a+sholes cannot do science." Time is the great moderator and idiots always fall by the wayside (even when they're right.)

  • 2 votes
#1.3 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 7:53 PM EDT

Chris, her reputation is over. It's done. No new grants for her, except temporarily from sympathizers at NASA. Speaking of idiots, it's not me who got into trouble. I am still funded just fine. Exaggerations aren't my specialty. A scientist ought to be skeptical about one's claims.

  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 9:50 PM EDT
Reply

This is not really all that surprising with the amount of arsenic's all around us ....

Like even in volcanic ash and our soils ....

Many plants take in arsenic ....

Arsenic is still used in medicine today ....

Maybe these single celled organisms can emit processed arsenic as a gas ....

The exciting part of this study is the ability of life forms to be able to tolerate extreme arsenic filled conditions ....

This would increase the probability of life to exist in what may be considered hostile conditions ....

Single celled organisms may be small , but they are a lively and a highly versatile group ....

Thanks Alan Boyle ....

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Jul 8, 2012 9:58 PM EDT

Well if anyone seen any of my posts on other things most know I'm a Conservative, Right leaning, Creationist, Christian who loves science. My saying has been this: I deeply believe in God, I believe in deep science... their is no conflict. So not turning this into a Creationist argument (and I appreciate no attacks on my beliefs), the results of the peer studies (as some already stated.) are not that surprising.

It appears that GFAJ-1 shows a high degree of adaptation than a "different bio-process". And more importantly it seems to do it on the fly:

Redfield and their colleagues said it was more likely that GFAJ-1 used a metabolic mechanism to enrich the tiny amount of phosphorus it could grab onto.

Demonstrating it's ability to adapt to minute levels of phosphorus v high concentrations of arsenate. Not necessarily a evolutionary trait but simply adapting to different environs. I think to really forward the idea of (similar) life "evolving" on other planets I propose the following hypothesis:

We have (to a large extent) been able to tell the compositions of the solar planets. If these various "conditions" could be represented in a laboratory (in their differing concentrations), then we could expose variable "life: (found on earth) to these conditions. The test field would include bacteria, viral, simple cell (amoebae), plant, animal (mice). Measure survival rates as well as well as (using earth as a baseline) gradually increasing from this environ to the "alien" environ. To my knowledge no test like this (to this extent) has ever been done comparatively.

The above article seems to key in on GFAJ-1's ability to "survive" in a High arsenic level (with little phosphorous) and that maybe one could simply test at what level phosphorous decreases to "stop" bio-process in "other" living things... just a thought and observation.

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 7:50 PM EDT

That was good Flame77_7 ....

  • 1 vote
#2.2 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 10:16 PM EDT

TY Bigbenalaska (Flame takes a bow and shows off the blank space on the wall where he will put his Nobel Peace prize for research) :)

    #2.3 - Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:15 AM EDT
    Reply

    You know, I could have told you that. And here's some more news: If human beings ingest arsenic, they will die, too. How much did this study cost?

    • 2 votes
    Reply#3 - Sun Jul 8, 2012 10:00 PM EDT

    The study was still very useful - it showed the microorganisms could survive despite arsenic. The problem was the radical conclusion of DNA alteration that they drew from it.

    • 3 votes
    #3.1 - Sun Jul 8, 2012 10:06 PM EDT

    You make big claims, you better have big data. And they made one of the biggest claims, with really not much solid data. I don't discount that value of the study that shows bacteria can grow in arsenic-rich environments, but making such a big claim without having very solid data to back it up reeks of publicity-seeking.

    • 3 votes
    #3.2 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 9:20 AM EDT

    51blue Humans die without oxygen. Simple test. (place a plastic bag over your head and tape shut). But there are bacteria that thrive without Oxygen.

    Simple test- throw a human in an Acid bath pH 2 and the human dies. There are some bacteria that thrive in extreme acidic environments.

    It cost time and money to find NEW life forms. Anybody can put there head outside (cheap test) and find our kind of life. It cost money to find life 2 miles below the Earths crust, the deepest part of Earths Ocean and other extreme environments.

    • 4 votes
    #3.3 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 12:18 PM EDT
    Reply

    It's interesting how they are trying to change the focus from "Our data show evidence for arsenate in macromolecules that normally contain phosphate, most notably nucleic acids and proteins." to "where does the arsenic go? and how do these cells thrive in lethal concentrations of arsenic?". Very dishonest.

    There are a large number of Bacteria and Archaea that are able to survive under what we think are extreme conditions (high and low temperatures, high pressures and concentrations of various compounds that are toxic to us). While these organisms are definitely interesting, they are certainly not worthy of a NASA press release to the general public claiming to have found a new form of life. Epic fail for all of those involved.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#4 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:48 AM EDT

    New forms of life is very important to NASA. If NASA is to attempt to find life on another planet, Moon, asteroid or another space body, NASA needs to identify where life can possibly exist and what life could look like.

    Could life live on Venus? What if we could find life on this planet that could survive in such an environment. Life exists at hydrothermal vents at the bottom of the Ocean. High heat and pressure there.

    • 4 votes
    #4.1 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 12:28 PM EDT
    Reply

    Rats, I was looking forward to some new arsenic recipes

    • 4 votes
    Reply#5 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 10:45 AM EDT

    .

      #5.1 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:50 PM EDT
      Reply

      On one hand I want to side with these people calling out Nasa on the evidence released but another problem overshadows this and that is that this group is comparing these cells that can live in arsenic to our form of life. Arsenic is deadly to us, our cells get liquified in a way and arsenic inhibits the functions of both white and red cells; too much of it and you can destroy your ability to produce red cells and kill your immune system w/o medical attention.

      That is not what is happening to these newly found cells. That makes them some form of life that is not like ours or many of the animal species on this planet. There are some species here on Earth that do use arsenic however, so there is some precedent for it on Earth.

      Our form of life is but just one form of life, there are tens of thousands of forms of life out there. We have life that thrives in highly acidic waters, others that thrive on selenium (another toxic to Humans element), there are life forms that thrive in pressures that would crush out skeletons at the bottom of the ocean. We have ones that are immune to poisons, that do not require oxygen to live, and others that can live for hundreds and maybe even thousands of years. We by no means know everything about our planet nor it's various types of life; to rule out anything based on a preconception I think is faulty logic however if there is not enough evidence then it can be ruled out.

      The only reason I agree with them is due to the findings NASA released. If the findings were a bit more conclusive this group would have no legs to stand on. All NASA needs to do is release more detailed info along with more tests to confirm that arsenic is indeed found within the cells and is not a by-product of some other process, although even if it is a by-product it would still mean they are resistance to arsenic.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#6 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 1:50 PM EDT

      This is an interesting case of science working like it is supposed to. Everything was brought out in the clear light of day. I remember seeing Dr. Wolfe-Simon during the initial press conference about this. She was obviously pretty proud of herself, but she was careful to qualify her statements and stressed that further study was needed.
      Now there has been further study and those initial results no longer appear to be what Dr. Wolfe-Simon thought. Something interesting was indeed discovered even though it was not what they at first thought it was.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#7 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:02 PM EDT

      Yeah, but Dr. Wolfe-Simon was curb-stomped in the process.

      I get the feeling Dr. Redfield won't be satisfied until she gets to hold Dr. Wolfe-Simon down, scrape a dull knife across her scalp, and post photos of the scalp to her blog.

      • 2 votes
      #7.1 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 9:12 PM EDT

      The problem is that this kind of grandstanding for personal gain (GFAJ-1 = Give Felisa A Job-1) gives science and scientists a bad name in the mind of the public. This was at best really horrible science. Extremely horrible science. However, given the past behavior of the lead author I suspect it was an attempt at fame (which unfortunately worked).

        #7.2 - Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:54 AM EDT
        Reply

        When certain people are backed into a corner, they lash back and downplay their original claims and change course in a 'bait and swith" scenerio. Of course, this is an interesting organism but can't you just "give up the ghost" and say we were wrong and are pursuing other interests rather than drag us further down the path that now the unstable arsenic biomolecules (DNA especially) only fall apart when the cells are lysed? Continue to cover this up for as long as you want: this whole original hypothesis that arsenic is incorporated into DNA in this organism is absurdly ridiculous!

          Reply#8 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 2:34 PM EDT

          I wouldn't call it "bait & switch" simply because the line of research remains interesting.

          • 2 votes
          #8.1 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 3:04 PM EDT

          There was a time when it was absurd to think that DNA could be the molecule of inheritance.

          There was a time when it was absurd to think that proteins could be the infectious particle for spongiform encephalopathy.

          There was a time when it was absurd to think that an RNA virus could insert itself into your genome.

          It turns out, life has a lot of strange variations that seem absurd if you accept that what we know is all that can be. I'm not saying the arsenic DNA thing is right, but I am saying that to dismiss an idea for which there is empirical evidence because it doesn't meet your preconceptions is... absurd.

          • 2 votes
          #8.2 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 4:27 PM EDT
          Reply

          Looking,reading,learning.

            Reply#9 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 6:45 PM EDT

            I do have some concerns at how NASA seems to be circling their wagons on this. It's not that big a deal. There are ideas in science every day that don't work out. What's their stake in dragging this out?

              Reply#10 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 7:30 PM EDT

              #10 -

              If I might be blunt, Space exploration IS at stake, since so many myopic humans need to have it " all spelled out before hand " we need to explore space, because that IS what we as Humans meant to do, we should NOT need any excuses for doing it.

              • 2 votes
              #10.1 - Mon Jul 9, 2012 7:45 PM EDT

              Hey Eagle.... I actually agree... Lets get started on manned Mars exploration and large scale terraforming... or at least a permanent moon base with space born construction of ships and habitable modules.... "Climb the Mountain because it's their" and we will discover not just new things about space... but about man. Coincidentally, my Pastor has preached on the Tower of Babel recently.... so I'll add "Do these things carefully without forgetting where we came from or who we are as a people."

                #10.2 - Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:29 AM EDT

                I don't think this particular study puts space exploration at stake one way or another. If I'm wrong about that, please explain why.

                  #10.3 - Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:55 AM EDT
                  Reply

                  I quiver with anticipation.

                    Reply#11 - Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:52 AM EDT

                    #10.2

                    Lets do that with an illustration: Lets take the easrly days explorers willing to risk " life and limb " but at the same time they know reality from fiction, so you want people to volunteer for a mission to a " new colony " the basics questions would be a) Water b)Food c) Security d) Viability

                    So lets see now, data supported by a " leading authority " is shown to be faulty, how would you as a volunteer respond to that?

                      Reply#12 - Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:59 PM EDT
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