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Jason Hatfield / Reuters
People hold a prayer vigil for the victims and first responders as police investigate an overnight shooting that killed 12 people at a midnight premiere of the new "Batman" movie in Aurora, Colo., on July 20.
Why did a dozen people die in this week's "Dark Knight" shootings? What was going on inside the head of James Eagan Holmes, the former neuroscience student who's suspected of killing those people in a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.? Questions about Holmes and his motives are the big unanswerables right now — but some folks are already suggesting that higher powers are at work. Higher powers like ... Charles Darwin?
"When students are taught they are no different from animals, they act like it," Rick Warren, the mega-church pastor and inspirational author, observed in a Twitter update just hours after the shootings.
That tweet came amid a flurry of homespun aphorisms and Bible quotes, so it's not fully clear that Warren was specifically blaming the violence on the teaching of evolutionary biology in schools. But the comment stirred up a hornet's nest among the theory's champions, including the University of Chicago's Jerry Coyne.
"I doubt that religion had anything to do with these murders, but religion is so quick to point the finger at science and evolution when they happen," Coyne wrote on his "Why Evolution Is True" blog. "So much for Rick Warren, the man Barack Obama chose to give the invocation at his inauguration in 2009."
'Where was God in all of this?'
Warren's comment wasn't the only one that seemed to touch on the link between godlessness and divine retribution. Rep. Louie Gohmert, R-Texas, brought up the link when he was asked about the Colorado shootings on the "Istook Live" radio show:
"We have been at war with the very pillars, the very foundation of this country ... and when ... you know ... what really gets me as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs and then a senseless crazy act of terror like this takes place," Gohmert said, according to a transcript on his House website.
"You know, when people say, where was God in all of this?" he said. "Well, you know, we don’t let ... in fact, we’ve threatened high school graduation participants that if they use God’s name that they’re going to be jailed, we had a principal of a school, and a superintendent or a coach down in Florida that were threatened with jail because they said the blessing at a voluntary off campus dinner. I mean, that kind of stuff ... where is God? Where, where? What have we done with God? We told him that we don’t want him around. I kind of like his protective hand being present."
Those comments drew a denunciation from the American Humanist Association — an organization whose slogan is "Good Without a God."
"Rep. Louis Gohmert truly tortures logic when he concludes that this violence had something to do with perceived attacks on majority faith in America," said Roy Speckhardt, the association's executive director. "At a time when families are mourning in the wake of this tragedy, Gohmert used it as an opportunity to push a religious agenda."
Christian? 'What a scary thought'
On the flip side, some atheists suggested that Christianity was to blame, capitalizing on reports that Holmes came from a Presbyterian family. On the "Debunking Christianity" blog, Cathy Cooper argues that Christian belief encourages the idea that all people are sinful, but that all believers are saved by faith alone. "Christianity provides believers with a basis for the belief that they are absolved from taking responsibility for their own bad behavior," she writes.
"Yes, James Holmes was a 'normal Christian boy' — what a scary thought," Cooper says.
Comments like that cause P.Z. Myers, a biologist at the University of Minnesota at Morris who describes himself as a godless liberal, to hang his head in shame.
"Christianity is piss-poor at doing more than providing lip-service against violence, but it’s at best a passive enabler." he wrote on his Pharyngula blog. Myers said the blame should instead be directed at a culture that glorifies violence, at laws that make it easy to acquire deadly weapons— and most of all, at the person who did all the shooting.
"Anything else is a distraction from correcting the real causes," he wrote.
As Ecclesiastes says...
There's nothing new under the sun when it comes to blaming God or godlessness for a disaster. Here are a few recent examples:
- Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay once said that the 1999 Columbine school shootings in Colorado happened “because our school systems teach our children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial mud."
- After Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast in 2005, Alabama state Sen. Henry E. "Hank" Erwin Jr. observed that the region has "always been known for gambling, sin and wickedness. ... It is the kind of behavior that ultimately brings the judgment of God."
- Evangelical preacher and one-time presidential candidate Pat Robertson blamed a number of disasters on God's wrath — including 2010's catastrophic Haiti earthquake, which he attributed to that country's "pact to the devil."
- Later that year, when an oil spill hit the Gulf of Mexico, Christian doomsayer Hal Lindsey cited the environmental catastrophe as "evidence that when you turn your back on Israel, especially when you've been a supporter, you're gonna see judgments come from God."
Natural catastrophes, and especially human-caused catastrophes like the one that took place this week, do pose a huge challenge for believers: Why does God allow the existence of seemingly senseless evil? If the power of prayer can save some believers, why would He be so cruel as to leave others unsaved? Do believers really think that the dead were more sinful than the living?
God doesn't own a gun
Marie Isom has a unique perspective on these questions: Not only is she a Christian and a blogger — she's also a survivor of the theater shootings. In a gripping post to her blog, "A Miniature Clay Pot," she recounts how she and her daughters were caught up in the chaos, threw themselves to the floor, and scrambled out of the theater when there was a break in the gunfire.
The blog posting is titled "So You Still Think God Is a Merciful God?" Here's the answer she gives:
"Yes.
"Yes, I do indeed.
"Absolutely, positively, unequivocally.
"Let’s get something straight: the theater shooting was an evil, horrendous act done by a man controlled by evil. God did not take a gun and pull the trigger in a crowded theater. He didn’t even suggest it. A man did.
"In His sovereignty, God made man in His image with the ability to choose good and evil.
"Unfortunately, sometimes man chooses evil."
If you're looking for some appropriate Sunday reading after a horrendous couple of days, you couldn't do much better than Isom's essay and her follow-up posting. I realize there's not much science in it, but that's why we call it Cosmic Log rather than Science Log.
Feel free to leave your comments and condolences in the space below.
Update for 1:15 a.m. ET July 22: There's more blame to go around. Jerry Newcombe of Truth in Action Ministries said in a commentary on the shootings that "we're reaping as we're sowing in this society."
"We said to God, 'Get out of the public arena,'" he wrote. "Lawsuit after lawsuit, often by misguided 'civil libertarians,' have chased away any fear of God in the land — at least in the hearts of millions." The result, Newcombe said, is that young people no longer dread the loss of Heaven or the pains of Hell.
"I don't think people would do those sorts of things if they truly understood the reality of Hell," he wrote.
The news director of the American Family Association, Fred Jackson, followed up with Newcombe on the "AFA Today" radio show. About 10 minutes into the show, Jackson said this:
"In the community there were community standards that reflected biblical principles, whether people knew it or not, the standard in the community was based on scripture. In that short period of time, roughly 40 years, we have seen such a transformation in values in our communities, whether it’s rural or whether it’s big city. I have to think that all of this, whether it’s the Hollywood movies, whether it’s what we see on the Internets, whether it’s liberal bias in the media, whether it’s our politicians changing public policy, I think all of those somehow have fit together — and I have to say also churches who are leaving the authority of scripture and losing their fear of God — all of those things have seem to have come together to give us these kinds of incidents."
Later in the show, around the 44-minute mark, Jackson added to the list of contributing factors:
"I think the source of this is multifaceted, but you can put it all, I think, under the heading of rebellion to God, a rejection of the God of the Bible. I think along with an education system that has produced our lawyers, our politicians, more teachers, more professors, all of that sort of thing, is our churches, mainline churches. ... The AFA Journal has been dealing with denominations that no longer believe in the God of the Bible, they no longer believe that Jesus is the only way of salvation, they teach that God is OK with homosexuality. This is just increasing more and more. It is mankind shaking its fist at the authority of God."
The Right Wing Watch and Gawker websites both picked up on these observations, and Right Wing Watch helpfully provides audio excerpts of the relevant quotes. (However, you can listen to the whole 54-minute show on iTunes for free.) Gawker's Louis Peitzman writes that "this message isn't just offensive: it's impossibly muddled," and he wonders whether anyone believes this sort of thing anymore. I think there are a lot of people who do. But what do you think?
Related content from NBCNews.com:
- Suspect was once a camp counselor for kids
- Will Batman shooting suspect ever face trial?
- Police deactivate trap at suspect's apartment
- Six-year-old among those killed in massacre
- Victims include sailor, aspiring sportscaster
- Cops: Weeks of planning went into shootings
- Survivor: Boyfriend 'took a bullet for me'
- Full coverage of the Colorado shootings
For a completely different take on the questions surrounding the "Dark Knight" shootings, God and even Batman, check out Paul Asay's essay on The Washington Post's website. Asay is the author of "God on the Streets of Gotham: What the Big Screen Batman Can Teach Us About God and Ourselves."
Tip o' the Log to my colleague at NBCNews.com, Bill Dedman.
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. To keep up with Cosmic Log as well as NBCNews.com's other stories about science and space, sign up for the Tech & Science newsletter, delivered to your email in-box every weekday. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
Leave a Comment:
""When students are taught they are no different from animals, they act like it,"
I didn't realize that Rick Warren was so uneducated. He usually sounds so articulate. Humans are taught we are animals because it is obviously true. But at the same time we are taught that we are different from other animals; and one of those ways is that we can choose to not act like them.
Sometimes it looks like it would be better to act like animals than like human beings.... LOL
Rick Warren wrote a book...I started to read it, until I got to the part where he said Jesus admonition to love one's neighbor was exclusive to other Christians. First thought was...man, Jesus must have been lucky to have been in the Middle East at that time period, yet only have had Christians living next door....until I realized that when Jesus was actually LIVING, THERE WERE NO CHRISTIANS. Rick Warren is a dumbsh*t jackass, just like all of the other charlatans who might steal one's money on a Sunday morning.
It not about anyone's superstition. He likely is an example of adult onset paranoid schizophrenia.
With easy access to all the guns his delusional world could imagine.
This has nothing to do with God unless you think God is the president of the NRA.
There is a growing body of scientific evidence that much of human behavior and personality is predetermined at birth by the way in which your brain processes information and stimuli. For example, the formations within your brain determine if you are more likely to be conservative or liberal. Identical twins separated at birth will grow up leading almost parallel lives, with all of the same likes and dislikes, many of the same biases and prejudices, many of the same beliefs and dreams. At some point in time, we may well discover that we actually have very little free will at all.
Someday, we may be able, through brain scans and chemical analysis, to determine who is likely to grow up to be a serial killer or a mass murderer. We may be able to determine who will be a prophet and who will be a politician. Think about the potential for abuse? Now there are some ethical questions. If you know someone is predestined to be a mass murderer can you lock him away before the fact? If you know it in untero, is abortion still a sin? Um, I can only imagine the insanity on these message boards then.
So, if you could tell if a person is going to be a Republican, could you just make up an unlimited virtual bank account and keep them from becoming a crook as well? There is some value here if we could just work it out.
Any tragic event sadly opens the door for these outspoken societal 'figures' to hop up on their soap boxes, and tell everyone why they're going to hell, or why hell doesn't exist.
My view on religion? It doesn't matter to you. And yours doesn't matter to me. As long as what you believe doesn't adversely affect the way others live their lives, then carry on.
Oh, and please don't attempt to cram your fear-driven beliefs down my throat. I hold myself to a higher standard than that, and you should too.
But, but, but, what about the Bible?
If you don't care about my religious views, why do you end your post with a slur? And why should I lower my standards to the level of yours? Looks to me like you are the one who is trying to cram your ego-driven beliefs down my throat. I couldn't care less what you believe. You are less than nothing to me.
Why do people get so hysterical when someone says something they don't agree with? The same ones who rant and rave, cuss and belittle, are the very ones who want freedom of speech to include their own filth and trash. So why can't they just be adult and allow others to say what they think?
'If you don't care about my religious views, why do you end your post with a slur? And why should I lower my standards to the level of yours? Looks to me like you are the one who is trying to cram your ego-driven beliefs down my throat. I couldn't care less what you believe. You are less than nothing to me.'
LOL, Your ability to think is astoundingly ignorant.
Why? Do you have a reason, or is that just a random ignorant comment?
Only that you just completely contradicted yourself. Of course, you might not have the higher level critical skills to understand that.
I personally live in montana, and next to texas, we have the HIGHEST gun to person ratio in the WORLD. I can tell you, gun related crime is ranked FIFTIETH on cause of death list. Drunk driving is first. >.>
Is that 50th thingie based on population as well? Last time I looked, Montana had the highest percentage of dad's killing their children per capita in the US. Has that changed? Why?
PS, if you personally live in montana, where do you actually live? Please leave personalities out of it.
And yet who is calling for a ban on alcohol and cars?
Tired, put the martini down before it is too late.....
Tex, do you really consider yourself to be clever?
How many of those guns in Montana are rifles used for hunting? Critical thinking skills are important now more than ever.
Tired,
Only to the simple minded...
PS, that would be people who post things like you just did...
Unsolicited advice: dont take yourself too seriously, we dont.
LOL
Is religion to blame? That's a good question. Note: there are over 10,000 different forms of religion all with sects that profess to believe in God and yet the situation on a global scale is getting worse. YES, hypocrites, first read and study God's word and then put them to practice.
How many can actually say that at there place of worship the religiouse leader encourage their members to read the Bible "DAILY"? - Joshua 8:1 OR how many of you take your bibles and verify what you're being taught? - Acts 17:10-11
Hartvig Lein and Commonsense101-
"Unfortunately I fear that your words are going to fall on deaf ears".
That's because the post is tooo long.
There are a great deal of unbelievers on this Vine, trying to prove yourselves right, or trying to prove Christians wrong? I'm not sure?
It's interesting to talk about evolution, and the creator of this idea,"Darwin". Blindly believing the theory of evolution, with few facts, just more theories. The universe and all the millions of life forms, just happened? The apple, orange, and peach are proof enough that God exists, without food we would not exist.
Let's say you are right, that life formed in the slime of evolution, it had to come from something. Try creating life from lifeless matter, it wont happen. That life had to reproduce not only into another living slime, but begin it's evolution into trees, flowers, vegetables, fruit and human life. WOW! what a stretch of the imagination.
Why not give the"Life Giver" some credit? at the least listen to your heart.
What a sorry post, Edward. If you insist on commenting again you should redo high school first. Were you not understanding when your science teacher was explaining the difference between what a Theory means in science and your usage of the word theory? Were you plugging your ears when your Biology instructor was outlining the facts of evolution alongside myriad resources for more?
How many morons must we call out before they stop associating evolution with abiogenesis? You didn't understand that either so let me put it this way: evolution describes how life diversified once it began, not how it began.
Nobody in science thinks that "life just happened". Scientists are actively searching for why life happened. Ironically, it is you creatards that are the ones claiming life just happened. Let there be life! How stupid is that?
Darwin wasn't the "creator" of biological evolution. He wasn't even the one who conceived of it. What he did was discover the mechanism that drives it. That would be a good place to begin your studies, Edward. It would help if we knew a little about what we were talking about, Edward.
bioparahti
you know whether edward is right or wrong when you hide behind a keyboard and insult someone its kind of like winning the 'special olympics' you may win but your still a retard
Didn't you just do the same thing, Grandpa? Hypocrisy is ugly.
Try creating God from nothingness. WOW, what an imagination.
So, the diversity of life is the result of it being created in it's diversity all at once? So, is lightning the Finger of God? Or the flash of Thor's hammer? That's what we believe until it is static electricity being generated due to high speed winds colliding particles of ice and drops of water until the electic fields build up so much it creates a spark, a big spark, but a spark.
Children learn from their environment from the moment of birth. They grow up with violence in music, violence in movies, violence on television, violence in video games, violence in books, violence in the media, violence everywhere. We have created a culture of violence in America. We have shown our children that it is an acceptable way of life. That violence is ok. That violence, like sex, sells. And yet, we are shocked when something like this happens. We are all responsible for what we, as a society, have created. And last, but certainly not least, we remove God from our most important teaching elements in society....our homes, our schools, our workplace, our daily lives, etc,. And call it, 'freedom from....". And then we ask God, "Why did you allow this to happen??" We are responsible for it. Not HIM. These events will continue until we, as a society, reverse the trend.
Interesting
The is a single reason why there is so much confusion among believers. God Himself never shows up to explain anything. SheHeIt never shows up for any reason.
Historically and statistically, miracles, which at first glance seem to be acts of God, never have exceeded the laws of probability. That is why prayers for the sick, for instance, always works best in a hospital setting. There are doctors there!
does no one wonder at all about how an unemployed student managed to afford $10,000-$15,000 in sophisticated gear in just a 3 month period?? should his guns be checked to see if he was supplied them through the 'fast and furious' program? its not the first time the govt armed someone. no one here think it odd that this happened so very close to the vote on the un program to limit small arms??
It seems quite a stretch to blame all this on Dubbya, but who knows, maybe the little guy did somehow provide the mental case with guns?!? After all, it is not really that far from Crawford TX to Denver.
tex2c
in rereading my post i dont see how dubbya got mentioned in it. are you reading what im not writing?
You mentioned 'fast and furious' and everyone who has read anything about that program knows that Dubbie created it and Obama shut it down. That's all.
NRA folks, NRA. Not God, not Obama, not his professors. NRA!
Please try to stay focused.
The Universe is constantly Evolving! and with Evolution, You Need Chaos to Create ORDER! That seems to be a Universal Constant! E=MC2 Evolution Equals Manipulated CHAOS TOO!
I don't blame the shootings on Darwin or anyone's imaginary friend in the sky. I blame them on Wayne LaPierre and the NRA's successful lobbying efforts to get assault weapons unbanned.
No surprise at all that the NRA's website doesn't even mention the Aurora shooting - not even so much as condolences to the families of the victims, much less an apology.
The full might and power of the fascist NRA is coming folks and guess who are going to be their first victims? Oh, sorry, the first victims are already dead. Mass murders all over the country thanks to the NRA and its phony 2nd Amendment propaganda to sell MORE guns. Marketing 101.
Just as the Nazi propaganda was the enemy of the German people in the 30's, the NRA propaganda is the enemy of the American people today.
The Nazis took away all the guns from the Jews so that when they came for them they couldn't defend themselves.
The idea of NAZI gun control is a myth spread by the NRA. check out a more rational and factually based account at http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html.
I blame it on the fact that law abiding citizens can't legally carry a firearm into a movie theater. A criminal will always obtain guns.
Did you know that contrary to what you see and read about the old west there really wasn't much crime? One it was recently after the civil war and everyone knew how to use guns and everyone carried guns for protection from wild animals and to hunt.
States that have allowed concealed handgun laws and other right to carry laws have not seen an increase in crimes involving guns.
How much crime do you hear about in Switzerland? Everyone serves in the military and everyone is issue a military rifle that they have to keep and maintain in their home. That hasn't caused a bunch of killing in Switzerland.
All these people that are talking about clip size. It takes a couple of seconds to put a new clip in and it doesn't matter if it is a pistol or a rifle, they both shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger.
What I want to know is how he got through an exit door that is only supposed to be able to be opened from the inside?
I agree! Having more people frantically shooting in a crowded, dark, tear-gas filled theater is the only solution.
It's not the size of the clip that matters, it's how you use it, and how many seconds it takes to get it in.
economykiller,
Are you being paid by the NRA to spread this stupidity or are you just too brainwashed to think clearly?
Switzerland is NOT the USA, it is made up of a small gene pool with very little economic disparity. The USA is a made up of the most diverse populace in the world with one of the most economically inequitable class systems. To compare Switzerland to the USA is as ignorant as thinking a crowded theatre full of guns is a good idea.
'What I want to know is how he got through an exit door that is only supposed to be able to be opened from the inside?' I know it is really hard for someone of your intellectual capabilities to figure out such a complex strategy. Lets just start with buying the ticket, going into the theatre, opening the door from the inside, placing a rock in the door threshold, going out into the parking lot, getting the package of guns and bombs, coming back to the door which is still being held open by the rock, walking into the theater.... Maybe you can take it from there.
We will be waiting to see what complex problem you are stumped by next...
The plain and simple truth is the American people have lost control of their own country. People of the US have no clue collectively what law’s they pass. They have the collective IQ of a sheep with guns and are most dangerous.
The US people have lost their right to collectively vote in their own political leaders to office. American’s spend more time on deciding what they will watch every night on TV than their choice of who should be the next President.
American’s should be known as the big ME country they are unconcerned about other’s needs either the person living next door or the one living elsewhere in the world it is the big ME.
This poor deranged creature needs to be put down just like a mad dog no trial it is not a question of if he did it. No trial off to jail sentenced end of story. Here in the US they will run this story each and every day making money on blood. IF bleeds it leads in the news no other reason than to sell AD space.
Jesus Christ people, the guy is a murderer and it doesn't matter in what way he commited those murders. The law wouldn't have stopped him from getting a rifle, just like it doesn't stop most criminals. So all of you stupid liberal pussies need to STFU and stop blaming guns, God, and Darwin. He is 100% responsible for what he did and no other outside factors are to blame. All of you goddamn liberal bastards make me sick, trying to always analyze a situation and find something else to blame.
Do oyu think we could at least discuss it like civilized adults?
They need to change the symbol for Tea bag party to a sheep with a patch over both eyes and have it wearing a NRA badge and holding a dirty harry gun pointing saying Make my day. I swear they should not allow any guns anywhere. Only cops should carry gun's period.
You are a f-ing retard. So cops and criminals, because that's all that would have them and cops are never there before the shooting, only after. Also, the 2nd amendment is a right that cannot be infringed. Move to Chicago and see how well their strict gun policy's work..oh that's right, the highest murder rate in the country.
In states where citizens can carry guns, I think it's shown that violent crime is less.
Religion and spirituality are very personal things. Let's keep it that way, and just agree that this guy was wrong, acted in a manner unacceptable to athiests, agnostics, and the religiously devout alike and leave it at that.
Holmes was dealing with X-ray in neuroscience, smoking weed and taken Vicodin, searching casual sex, and in financial trouble, getting out from the apartment. In another hand I am searching where else Nature produces something that explodes itself. An observable factor is that only men, never a woman, are actors in this kind of massacres. These informations are suggesting that the force behind Holmes action came naturally from the psyche doing the reverse pathway of evolution and recovering and expressing genes dormant at the dirt-DNA regions. Those genes are about remotes ancestrals, so deep that the explanation requires a description of the whole Universe. At least it is what suggests the formulae of Matrix/DNA Theory.You can see our article about ( Is the Force Driving a Man to Violent Explosions Coming From Our Deep Past and was Written in the Stars?! ). By the way is necessary an investigation also about the theories he learned in his course of computational neuroscience.
No, women are the ones who leave their two kids in the car when they let it roll into the lake, or drown their 5 kids one by one in the bathtub, or take them into the yard late at night one by one and bash their heads with a rock, or ..... shall I go on?
Oh...Tony...thanks, you are right, I forgot the phenomenon "mother killing offspring". But, massacres has been action of men. The fundamental cause is located at the brain region of Function 4, the mother is another has cause, it is about Function 1.
I am trying to say that while people like smarterthanu11 , post above, is trying to simplify the issue, we are dealing with a phenomena caused by human minds, which is the most complex thing at Earth and the top of 13,7 years of universal evolution. It is too much complex in relation to our little knowledge, we can't stop this force that is a Humanity enemy, but there is a method that could leads us to do it: the human mind is merely another kind of natural system, and since we have the formula of all natural systems, we can do it.
Finite minds, cannot comprehend completely the things of God. We can believe, but other than that we have very little capacity for understanding an eternal God.
As Spirit filled Christians, we can be guided by God in our limited capacity, We can be taught by God enough to know right from wrong, but as far as understanding the one who knows every molecule in the universe, and can hold it all in His hand, we may never understand completely.
I'm one of God's creations, through His Son Jesus Christ. Without Him we are nothing and without believing there is nothing. You can study, all your life on this earth, but unless it is done to glorify God, it is nothing and has no good use. Example: Has all your study helped to bring others to the knowledge of salvation through Christ Jesus? I've meet Car mechanics that do their work as unto God, others see their dedication to God, and believe. Nurses that show the love of Christ, and Scientists that give God the Glory for His wonderful creation.
We can have all the knowledge in the universe and it will be less than a speck of sand in the sea, next to the one who created us and gave us the limited knowledge we have.
John 1:1 and John 3:16 pretty much sums it all up.
I study evolution for the glory of God.
Tony
?
The LORD sees everything you do. Wherever you go, he is
watching.
Proverbs 5:21
He knows when you are sleeping, He knows when you're awake, He knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake.
Santa Clause is Coming to Town, 1:10 - 13
And he knows when one is going to kill human beings as a child 6 years old... and do nothing for stopping him. If he permit it happens he is senseless about humans, to the hell with this kind of god...
Hey Edward... How are thing in the Bronze Age?