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Yael Yolovitch / IAA / AP
Archaeologists say this limestone figurine of a ram, discovered at a highway construction site between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, dates back 9,000 to 9,500 years.
Israeli archaeologists say two animal-shaped figurines discovered at the site of an Israeli highway construction project go back more than 9,000 years, and reflect the religious practices that were common in the region several millennia before Moses.
"It is known that hunting was the major activity in this period," Hamoud Khalaily, one of the directors of the Tel Mosa dig, said in a statement issued Wednesday by the Israeli Antiquities Authority. "Presumably, the figurines served as good-luck statues for ensuring the success of the hunt and might have been the focus of a traditional ceremony the hunters performed before going out into the field to pursue their prey."
One of the figurines, sculpted from limestone and measuring about 6 inches (15 centimeters) in length, looks like a horned ram. The other, smoothed and shaped from dolomite, seems to depict a buffalo, ox or other type of bovine animal, archaeologists said.
The Stone Age figurines turned up during an excavation that's being conducted a few miles north of Jerusalem to clear the way for widening Highway 1 to Tel Aviv. The project's directors said they were found last week, near a large round building that had a foundation built from fieldstones, and an upper wall section apparently made of mud brick.
Khalaily and excavation co-director Anna Eirikh said the finds date back 9,000 to 9,500 years. That's thousands of years before the time of Moses, who was thought to have lived in the time frame of 1400 to 1500 B.C. But the period when the figurines were created, known as the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B, may have been as much of a turning point for the region's social and religious practices as Moses' time was.
Yael Yolovitch / IAA via AP
This 9,000-year-old figurine was sculpted from dolomite, excavation directors Anna Eirikh and Hamoudi Khalaily said in a statement from the Israel Antiquities Authority. They said it "seems to depict a large animal with prominent horns that separate the elongated body from the head. The horns emerge from the middle of the head sideward and resemble those of a wild bovine or buffalo."
"The Pre-Pottery Neolithic B period ... is considered one of the most fascinating chapters in the history of mankind; many changes took place in it that shaped human society for thousands of years to come," Khalaily said. "During this period, the transition began from nomadism, based on hunting and gathering, to sedentary life, based on farming and grazing."
This was the age when animals were being domesticated, agriculture was on the rise, and urban settlements (including one of the earlier incarnations of the biblical city of Jericho) were being built up. Religion, too, was being codified. At Turkey's Göbekli Tepe archaeological site, for example, researchers have found the world's oldest-known temple, a place of worship that was first built up as far back as 12,000 years ago and was still apparently in use when the Tel Mosa figurines were sculpted hundreds of miles away.
Khalaily suspects that the figurines were used as good-luck charms for hunting, but Eirikh has an alternate theory: Perhaps the figurines were associated with efforts to domesticate wild oxen or goats. Either way, these statuettes served as stand-ins for the creatures that Stone Age societies were beginning to bring under their control.
More about ancient art:
- Female sex organs were the focus of oldest wall art
- She's still a pin-up after 35,000 years
- 7,000 years ago, optical art flourished
- Stone Age pebble may be oldest-known engraving
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. To keep up with Cosmic Log as well as NBCNews.com's other stories about science and space, sign up for the Tech & Science newsletter, delivered to your email in-box every weekday. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
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The ram is mentioned so many times in the Five Books of Moses, it's no surprise. The ram was also an important part of Chinese culture, from thousands of years back.
Thanks for running this story, Alan. I just sent the link to my son in Jerusalem. He's very impressed and quite proud.
Are you 'effin kidding me? Do you think this was something Jewish???? No, it is not. It is a Canaanite artifact, they inhabited Palestine before any religion was born. Canaanites are modern day Palestinians.
Abraham--which Jews trace their heritage from was born in Ur, Iraq and Jews are not native to Palestine, by their own account jews migrated to this area 6000 years ago NOT 9000
omfg, taking not only land away but ARTIFACTS too.
Chicago - Do you really have to be so angry, political and polarizing in your comments about an archeological figurin? How sad.
Although I agree with you farideh, "I just sent the link to my son in Jerusalem. He's very impressed and quite proud." made his response quite reasonable; and he's right.
What's there to be proud of? We are hardly connected to what somebody did 9000 years ago.
After seeing the two objects Benjamin Netanyahu said they were obvious weapons of mass destruction from Iran and clinched his fist pounding his podium saying "and we have a strong reply for them!"
No rabbit's foot?
What is interesting is that in America at 9000 bp we were just coming out of the Paleo era and into early archaic. Nothing more beautiful than ancient art of any culture, I am sure they served a good luck or religious significance.
flocker
What's there to be proud of? We are hardly connected to what somebody did 9000 years ago.
UMMM - Israelis are proud when these artifacts are found, as we strive to preserve, not modify or deny history - as some of our neighbors do regularly and unabashedly.
ChicagoT
Maybe you should calm down a little because archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites.
http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf
ALWAYS after their Lucky Charms!!!!!! Even 9000 years ago before Leprechauns were discovered!!!
We Kimosabe? Unless you are native American count yourself out.
Not only did the original Americans travel thousands of miles to America, they had made it considerably into North America and survived quite well with many artifacts discovered relating to hunting and I'm sure worshiping something also during this same time period. I wouldn't call that nothing!
So how old is the earth again, accounting to Jews and Christian beliefs?? 9000 years old?? How can any one believe in religious theories on how old the earth is or how GOD made earth in just seven days when even their our people claim thing are being found that are older the their beliefs?
Including man.
Chicago,
Notice that the director of the dig is of arabic decent, most likely attended the Hebrew University of Jerusalem alongside other arabs and jews. Your polarized delusion of reality is clearly a function of bias.....pathetic!
Interesting. Obviously, the first, original inhabitants of that land were pagans. Pagans may have a very good claim to have their land restored.
bonos rama... the humanoids of that era have, by fossil discoveries and analyses, provided more awesome information about humanity's origins.... don't knock it. There has also been discovery of 2,000 year old artifacts verifying the existence of Philistine warrior tribes who migrated there and who are believed to be Semitic (as are both Arabs and Israelis today... however, they have considerably different historical sub-cultures between them).
The Philistines are extinct. They did not survive the Greek and Roman adventurers into that land. Nor did the Greeks and Romans survive. Actually, I have read that the Hebrew/Judeans/Israelis/Jews... these Semitic tribes have a culture, a religious one, that has survived continuously in the Middle East for over 5,000 years. They are the only group who have remained there down through the ages. The others simply ebbed and flowed into extinction.
No other Semite faction can make that statement. I am referring to a large number of archaeological and historical facts from various websites but zionsake-holyland.tripod.com/Beliefs/IL_vs_the_Occupiers.html was easiest for me to read, both factual and well-resourced also.
What is rather note-worthy, I think, is that the English word for that ancient and extinct pagan-warrior tribe is "philistine" and today the word itself is used often. It means (besides philosophical paganism) to be rude, crude, and not too shrewd when applying it to some folks we run into today.
It's an insult, a very modern one. And, it seems to me, quite funny.
o... btw, I am myself not Jewish but I suppose "ecumenical" is a fair description of my beliefs. I am Irish decent from ancestors here legally via Ellis Island, and have a multi-generational legacy as an American citizen.
Or MAYBE OG carved a really cool trinket for IG figureing she'd really like it and he'd get lucky! You decide...
"It means...to be rude, crude, and not too shrewd when applying it to some folks we run into today. It's an insult, a very modern one."
A philistine is also someone who values material wealth over culture and the arts. The use of it as an insult IS "modern", if you count the 17th century as being in the modern period. Author Jonathan Swift used it in his writings.
Ok, maybe we should look at a couple of facts. Prior to World War One all of what we broadly refer to as the "Middle-East" was referred to as "the Orient" and was part of the Ottoman Empire (the Turks).
The Turks sided with the Germans and were defeated by the Allies there by losing the remnants of their once great empire.
The British (over the protestations of the French) carved up the region and created Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and PALESTINE (for themselves) to give them a toe-hold in the region. Throughout the 20's and 30's there was great concern in Britain over the large numbers of Jews moving into British Palestine and therefore under British protection from their Islamic neighbors. This was causing all kinds of problems in Palestine and a real headache for the Brits. Churchill and other British politicians decried the large numbers of Jewish settlers in Palestine but there was really nothing they could do about it.
After World War II there was a strong feeling of guilt among the western powers regarding the Holocaust. Something they could have prevented but did not. The Brits stepped in once again and suggested the creation of a "Jewish State" to be called Israel and they gave up a part of Palestine for that purpose. Israel, it's in the Bible. King Solomon and all that. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
If memory serves me correctly (and at my age it's a valid question) Israel won her independence in 1947 and so we fast forward to the present day and here we are. Same problems, only bigger.
OK?
Chicago is correct, although his anger and inappropriate language hurts his argument and masks his point. The folks who carved those amazing artifacts were neither Jewish nor were they Palestinian. They were the indigenous hunter-gatherers, no doubt tribal groups with no higher governmental organization or national or regional identity.
OK? (I say again)
Besides, what are we arguing about? It's impossible anyway, the earth is only 6,000 years old, right?
Settle down folks and have a nice day.
This is a cool artifact, however, everyone argueing it has religeous ties are nuts. Where in any of the article was anything mentioned about judaism, christianity, or any of those other religeons? The only link to that type of thinking was merely the coincidence of location where it was unearthed. Just so we are clear, even Jewish scholars only date their religeon back to around 2500 BCE, and although it was one of the first monotheistic religeons, it was by no means the first known religeon. There are quite a few that came before it not limited to, but including, Hinduism, Cunfusionism, Galic, Greek pagan, Egyptian pagan, ect. The asertation was correct that Israel is not the birth place of the Jews and anyone with a bible would know that for truth given the very well documented flight from Egypt of Abraham who himself claimed God gave the land of Israel to be the "NEW" homeland of the Jews and of which was fought for and taken by force by the Jews. The oldest known and documented religeon on Earth goes to Hinduism which predates Judaism by 1500 to 2000 years, yet that is not the oldest known religeon, it is simply the oldest known "recorded" religeon, as before that, most traditions were recorded orally. Sites of practice where this is irrevocable proof include Stone Henge, Gobekli Tepe, The Pyramids of Giza, Sumerian Cuniform, ect. The earliest accepted date among scholars both religeous and secular for any of the Abrahamic faiths is 2348 BCE.
Religeons are always trying to erase, replace, or assimilate history to make themselves and their beliefs more factual and honestly it is revulting. This find had absolutely nothing to do with Judaism or, quite possibly, any religeous belief whatsoever. They are refered to as "lucky charms" with no obvious religeous back up aside from the serendipity of geographic location. Religeons don't believe in luck, thats a paganistic ideal. And these are a really awesome find that very well could help humanity better understand its past so please I beg you religeous zealots... Keep your mouths shut and stop plagarizing history.
Finally, proof that there is no God. Creationists say that their Bible, and their interpretation of it, is the first and last word. They, and their bible, say that the earth is only 6000 years old. This artifact is 9000 years old. So, their Bible is wrong. Since the only God they believe in is now PROVEN as fiction, I guess they'll all become atheists. Or... they might just all be stupid. Hmmm...
Robert Warner
Not true, with many Bible believers, We believe the word Day in the 6 "day" creation represents a period of time. "Yom" is the word used. Remember before God created the Sun and moon which we use to measure a 24 hour period, 3 periods passed.
Adam and Eve were created in the image of God, if God had created others before that, they were most likely not created in God's image. Cain "In Genesis 4:13, shortly
after he killed his brother Abel, “said to the LORD, ‘My punishment is more
than I can bear. Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden
from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever
finds me will kill me.”
Who will kill him? possibly there were others alive before God created man in His image.
What the periods of time were, only God knows. I believe that God created the universe in an extended time divided into 6 , that is how He prepared the earth with the natural resources we have now.
Why so many non believers think that believing other then a 6000 year creation will destroy a Christian's belief, is beyond me.
The main thing is that, God loves you so much, that He gave His only Son as a gift of salvation to all who believe. read John 3:16
Everything else we will find out for sure, when we see Him.
Cool find!
The reason the "anti-God" folks are here spewing their nastiness is because they think there is definitive proof somewhere here that their lack of any belief system is justified. If they were so comfortable in their lack of faith there would be no need for so much anger and emotion. It's inner conflict at it's finest : )
Ooh thanks lil' Miss psychology. Everyone has 'inner conflict;' that doesn't make religion one iota less mythical fantasy.
Well I minored in Psych, but I detest organized religion. I find it to be evil, selfish, and an excuse to rape and murder.
Relax Doug we are all entitled to a belief system as long as it causes no injury to another.. so why the anger? Let each person have what comforts them- why deny that?
Love it!
9000 years? Must be carved from Dino teeth;-)
Who could say that it was carried by hunters as a good luck charm? That's really grasping at straws I mean seriously? Furthermore why print that takes alot away from the article....(hunting was big in those days....no kidding they didn't drive thru and McDonalds?) Seriously they pay these people?
maybe these carving were sold to ancient ufo traveler's at tourists shops back in the day...
maybe they were baby toys, archaeologists do come up with some serious BS with their theories. Could have been some bored kid carving stuff in his cave room.
Because so many believers are tied to a belief the world is only 6,000 years old. When their only "evidence" for that is a the same book that tells them that, which was written by iron-age peoples a few thousand years after the fact.
If the believers would quite insisting "It's true because it says it's true." in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary then the non-believers, and the believers who aren't young earth creationists could finally stop having to deal with their beliefs.
Besides, no one cares about your beliefs, we care about your actions. Believe whatever nonsense you want. Like tress were made before the sun, or that man was a giant clay figurine. You can even continue to think that a perfectly moral being managed to get the entire bible written without once stating slavery is an abomination, while finding time to note that shrimp are.
Please, believe it all day long, just allow us to teach it for what it is. A collection of myths written by people very nearly utterly ignorant of the way the universe works, no more grounded in reality than the myths of any other religion.
This one usually gives me the biggest laugh. He was "sacrificed", Jesus, who supposedly knew he was god (or the son of, or part of, depending on who you ask), made this great sacrifice, giving up ridicule and persecution to go live in paradise where he would be king. Even the editors of your bible knew this to be a crock. That's why the gospel of Judas was left out, couldn't have it known that Jesus all but begged his best friend Judas to turn him in so he could be martyred and go to paradise.
I feel so sorry for the God-deniers. Every darn one of them are so unhappy and ego-challenged that they must insult others who simply have a different value system... and so long as anyone's value system, including the atheistic criers, does not harm another person (apologies to the Hippocratic Oath of of certified Medical Doctors) I simply cannot fathom their attacks on us who do not agree with them?
It seems proselytizing is an interesting behavioral off-shoot for folks who do not believe in the Entity most of us call "God." I can assure them that since Human Beings do not clone, and have not since the dawn of time, each person's definition of the Godhead will be different... and there is nothing wrong with that!
Those fault-finders of devout Christians, Jews, and Muslims and other religions of today are to be pitied for their need to attempt to destroy another's faith. They actually label themselves as... I regret to think ... hopelessly inadequate within their own lives.
They do not offend me because what they do is keep me in touch with the contrast they personify of lack of decency and even joy. These are desperately unhappy people if the only pleasure available to them is demeaning others.
What a terrible price they pay for their jealousy.
The problem with "believers" is the arrogance with which they assert that non-believers have no belief system. You continue to try and define us in your terms all the while refusing to listen to us tell you what we believe in. You sit there and call me desperately unhappy when you know absolutely nothing about me. Is that your definition of humilty? I see you as people who need to function under threat of punishment. You can't do something nice and decent from the goodness of your heart. You need everything spelled out in an instruction manual. I try to be helpful to strangers and friends alike because, logically, the world simply functions better when people stick together. In an over-crowded world manners prevent useless fights. And it makes me feel better to be nice as well. A few weeks ago someone rear-ended me at a light. I looked at the damage, looked at the young woman and her child and decided to let it go. She seemed to be someone who could use a break so I gave her one. That was a nice day for me. What would you have done?
Last month there was story about a group of families who complained that teachers in the public school their children went to were forcing their kids to say prayers despite laws prohibiting this. They went public and may have brought charges against the school. One of your sweet Christian friends publicly commented that what they really needed was a bullet in their brains. See, you guys aren't as loving as you pretend. You act like it's all against you and you ignore the fact that you can be just as brutal as those you rail against. Try and be more open-minded sometime and look at things from other directions. Reality may not be pretty but at least it's honest. Enjoy your day.
Hmm....Judge not lest ye be Judged? I notice how those that profess to follow Jesus' teachings are the first ones to decide someone needs to be pitied, saved, prayed for, repent...
It's a nice find for humankind and not just for the present occupiers. I hope it gives us more insight on correct human past. Good story.
Sometimes a ram ..is just a ram.
God is nothing but a persons use of their imagination to explain
something that is a "mystery" to them and others. When one
person decides their explanation is the correct explanation, that
belief is then used to persuade others that the originator of that
thought (explanation of the mystery) is above everyone elses thought.
Thus elevating that person in his/her mind to a higher status , first
to themselves then to others, in order to hold sway over the opinion
of others. it is the creation of power over at first one person and
then others. With power comes special privileges in many forms. Gift
giving freely, gift giving for special treatment of taking away
mysteries( evil spirits). Sacrifices which release ones own self
worth and transferring it to another person. Religions in primitive
form show evidence of the scheme to take away objects such as food
and clothing in return for special treatment /protection/good
hunting/fertility /etc. Creating cures in simple incantations and
then actually stumbling across real cures with the use of plants and
minerals and up the chain to modern medicine.
Science explains, while religion goes all the way back to the
origin of ...one persons imagination creating the myth of a god that
satisfies their need for explanation.
I've studied the history of Dakota Native Americans for 26 years
from the 1860's and further back. There was a white missionary named
Sam Pond who lived among them most of his life. He had the time to
ask all medicine men and women of the tribe, of numerous band, of
numerous villages of the Dakota , their thoughts of Dakota religion.
The only common consistent thread he found was each person had their
own story, and to that story they were all sticking to it!
The whole world is one tribe, and broken down into the hundreds of
millions of religions, each one thinks theirs is the true
religion..........and by god...they are sticking to it.
Good to see not everyone is a mindless robot nice post.
When grandpa was bored up at the farm years back, he would carve a chain from a piece of wood, some times a small horse, etc...Pretty basic whittling to pass the time tending the farm with basic tool. My dad bought...Craftsman and Shopmaster tools...when bored he made cabinets, tables etc...was not as primative and his dad...looking back at grandpa's horses...should I surmise Gpa was some religious leader ...whittling a sacred object?.......or was his horse just a......horse?....Well .....a horse is a horse of course etc ...
Maybe Star but it has been proven that religion is almost a genetic trait. No matter the culture and where in time man will create a God sooner or later. People want to believe there is a better place than the one we surround ourselves with. This has been proven time and time again in history.
I often wonder if for some people politics becomes their religion. Oh well cool 9000 year old finds.
I would say inquisitiveness is the trait. So much that when people don't know an answer but feel the need for one will try and make up a possible answer.
Religion is one of the first stumbling steps out of darkness towards reason. Just as a child learning to walk may take a few missteps, or roll their ankle, so too did man do with religion in answering why do we see what we see.
Dogma, which religion needs to survive, is a poor substitute for tested hypothesis becoming theory as we find evidence supporting it, and using evidence that refutes it to craft a better explanation that accounts for that evidence.
Religion fails miserably at the latter.
Burning....I agree...people people do want to believe that there is something better..in the afterlife...people don't want to face the fact of the end of life and extend a new life after death. I have been able to resuscitate a number of people who died(heart stopped)including my parents several times each. Wish I didn't have to. But those are the cards dealt to you. I have had extended conversations with these people and saw things simply amazing dealing with the aspect of life after.... life. I will simply say...man is god. Man creates life, man can take life away, and sometimes man can bring a dead life back to life.
The words I read years ago started 26 years ago of my quest for preserving history. The last sentence was "We shall know them no more forever.." When I study artifacts, to me it is not so much the object, it is...who made it( I wonder what was the name of that person who left finger prints in that pottery), who used it, how was it used......and...who used it last.
Today I just helped open a new National Park I started on working on 26 years ago. Discovery of an 1801 Spanish coin, a gun flint, bones, 1820 military button, etc in the first shovel full of test dig shaped my last 26 years of life. I created a National Park because I had to know who these artifacts belonged to. Artifacts...are cool!
Hmmm....9000 years ago. Wasn't that the end of the Hyborian Age? Who knows? Maybe Conan the Barbarian could have handled said figurines?
@Burning Brightly,
I figure that is probably a genetic trait related to survival instinct. We have to believe that things get better than our current situation to drive us through the bad and often devastating times that every species has to go through. The difference with humans is we likely have a very overactive imagination compared to other animals and combined with fear of the dark, emptiness that comes with dying they create a comforting concept to help themselves make it through life. I don't have an issue with the idea of religion itself (but I'm not religious), my issue is with organized religions that bring about war and genocide and general hatefulness and try to mask it as the wish of a higher power when it is actually the sick prejudice and greed of man.
If it was made by the israelites, it would have been chiseled in the shape of a hundred dollar bill
simply put... I think you have a typographical error in typing your nic... You meant "simpleton" didn't you?
I wish I was born back then--none of this religious BS we have today with one god. Better to have dozens or none--which is what we do have but you won't get those religious zealots to believe that as they are all brain washed from birth--that's the evilness of all religions--brainwashing.
You'll regret your wish faster than religious people can pray a hail mary.
more2bits
"Brainwashing" is what we need, thank God he is the one that renews our minds, and not science.
The transformation of our lives comes from the renewing of our minds. Our minds are
the place that we evaluate those thoughts entering our systems. Listen to the
scriptures,
"And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed
by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is,
that which is good and acceptable and perfect" (Romans 12:2).
a stupidity plus more stupidity.those artifacts found in the higway and really more than 9000 years old are not made by man they are made by the bad angels of god that came to live in the earth.man was created by god in the late six day of creation.adam was thrown out of paradise when he was 500 years old.our savior the lord jesus christ came to earth exactly 5500 later completing exactly 6000 years.we are in the earth today approximately8000 years the new beginning period.... near the end.watch out for those that dont believe in god and his son jesus
Romans 12:2 could be a little more straightforward. Seems pretty vague to me.
Speak for yourself. I prefer logical and rational thinking.
And have your mind transformed into guillable mush!
That's nice. Prove it!
And I'm one of them! By all means, prove there's a god!
its all a bunch of crap, man made stories to go along with the time's, how the hell do they know somebody carved them 9000 yrs ago? or why they supposidly look like animal's or used for luck, religion is what you make it if it make's you happy while your here, what more do want? when you die your dead and stinking.
All this to-do about a God or no God. I find it so much easier going through life (I'm 82 years old now) believing that there was and is a God as I have been taught. A God who loves us all and who prepares a place for us after worldly death. If we live our life as he has instructed us he has promised that we will live in peace and happiness after that worldly death. If we stray from that path he has laid for us, but in the end we ask forgiveness we WILL be permitted to live in His heaven for eternity.
I believe my earthly life is easier for me if I believe in these promises. If they do not come to pass, what have I lost by following these paths. I have lost nothing of value here on earth and I have lived with love and peace while I was on this earth, always knowing (believing) in what I had to look forward to after death.
What does a non-believer have to look forward to after his time is up? NOTHING.. I pity him. He has lost very much. It was always there for him to take but he just ignored it. Too bad.
But, you know... I think God will still eventually take him into heaven If he asks for it. For our God is a forgiving God. And it costs absolutely nothing to be believer and if it is true that person has so very much to gain for his belief.
Why would anybody refuse to believe it there is so much to gain for eternity. And, if it is not true, what has one lost because he has believed?
'Nuff said. May God Bless each and every one of you, even if you don't believe in him. FOO!!
I'm not a religilish man,maybe the faith of a mustard seed but I have raised my children in the church.People with morals have live better lives and are better people!If the belife of a god helps you to be a better person.........
Bovine, huh. Looks more porcine to me.
I was going to say the same thing... maybe our vision is warped in the same way?
Stone age contraceptive?
According to some anthropologists, alligator dung is pretty useful
Paper weight!
Worth a pretty penny I am sure. A clovis or cumberland point from then or possibly a lost lake point can command thousands. Nice artifacts.
Or maybe a stone age sex toy? ;)
ah the stoneage, something the bible and jewish history from Adam to Jesus completely ignores, yet thousands of years later the 3 dominant religions and billions of sheep like followers still believe it to be our true history and are willing and eager to exterminate anyone who believes differently. Just 130 years after god made Adam, Seth was herding sheep, and just 1600 years after the earth was created Noah was already sailing the seven seas in a massive ship, and just 2000 years after eve ate the forbidden fruit Abraham was using domesticated camels in his caravans. So just where in the last 6000 years did stoneage people, hunter/gatherers come into the picture?
I could definitely see the one stone being a ram, but calling the other one bovine is a stretch, as it doesn't look like much of anything other than a rock with a bump on it.
wouldn't it be nice if we all could just leave religion , God and creation out of this amazing discovery... to think that humankind was expressing themselves through creating art this early in the history of our planet, is amazing.... and to think it has survived all this time through humankinds hideous behavior toward fellow man and the planet is truly a wonder!
Too busy buying stuff with my prosperity gospel check to remember a large segment of the U.S. believes dinosaur bones were put there as a trick by some deity!
could you imagine strangers having these discusions in person, their actual opinions flowing free there would be nothing but arguing it would be quite refreshing to see people speak their minds instead of going with the flow.......internet giving the populace a set of nuts
Those artifacts faund in the highway and really more than 9000 years old are not made man they are made by the bad angels of GOD that came to live in the earth.Man was created by god in the late six day of creation.Adam was thrown out of Paradise when he was 500years old our Savior The Lord Jesus Christ came to earth 5500 years later completing exactly 6000years.We are in the earth today approximately 8000 years the new beginnig perioD .....and them the end
pietrasant, just where did you get that information, the old testement is the entire history of the earth (ROTFLMFAO) and nowhere does it say that, here is the timeline of our existence according to the bible http://www.hisemissary.com/time.html
BodyDouble
It sounds like he's using an early Christian formula common in eastern churches as far back as the 5th-6th century. The idea is that the world is roughly 6000 years old and will end at it's 6000th year. The idea behind is based on a verse from psalms which states that a thousand years are like one day to God. Now, instead of taking that to mean that, since God is eternal, even vast amounts of time seem like no time at all to Him, they took it to mean that one of "God's days" is 1000 years. Combine that with the 6 days of creation and you come up with a world history that amounts to 6 "days of labour" and one millennium (the Sabbath, the day of rest) before the world properly ends.
It's not a very common view point and it's based on a rather skewed exegesis, instead of actual scripture, but there it is.
Oh, and btw, the Hebrew Bible is not the entire history of the earth. It's the history of one people and the inaccuracies of its dating system can plainly be seen when you look at the Samaritan Pentateuch and the Septuagint (which offer differing numbers in identical passages).
I am a theist and a Jew... but even I think the people who say "every word in the Bible is the truth", especially if they're reading a translation, to be decidedly silly.
For all the Book thumpers out there of Jewish and Christian persuasion: You lost out--your world started 6000 years ago according to your books. ROFL
This artifact is 9000 years old, and belongs to the native Canaanite people who spoke Aramaic, and were Pagan and are now modern day Palestinians. They were and are the only rightful owners of this area, this is THEIR artifact, not a Jewish one.
Jews are migrants to this area. Abraham is from Ur, Iraq--he is the father of the Jews.
how many ways is this post in error..... too many to count
I was laughing about it myself.
There could be a million years between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. I don't doubt and never did that the earth is more than 6-10,000 years old.
Wow you people are retards. ChicagoT you're right in many ways than these brainwashed bible retards can think of. By the way if you really read the bible not just hear your pasture or w/e dick is up there reading to you says; you will find out alot about how Moses led the Jews out of Egypt to Isreal. Its just like how people can't or won't beleive how the Jews killed off the local Canaanite population just so they can have a country of their own. Do your research people before you spew your bible bull@!$%# to everybody.
Mike1234567890, specifically, I was talking about the following antisemitic screed
How is his statement antisemitic?
It's a known fact that people of Western decent have forgotten why the mid east is at war with itself. If you was paying attention in history class, or reread your books you would find out all of its about Jerusalem as a holy place. The Muslims, Jews, and Palestinians want that site for their own so they will kill any and everybody that gets in the way. Now the Jews and Palestinians are specifically at war for the whole country when the Jews came by way of Moses and stole the country know today as Isreal away from the Canaanites.
It is antisemitic (or rather it is anti-hebrew, since arabs are also descendents of Shem) in that it implies that the ancient peoples of Canaan are related to the Palestinians and not to the Jews, which is false.
It is also the type of screed that the Palestinians have been using to try to erode legitimacy the nation of Israel. At the same time the "palestinians" are a mixture of all the "races" that occupied that land sinc about 70 AD, including Arabs and Persians and Turkmen and Romans and so on.
Also, even though I did not bring it up, the language of Aramaic is not nearly 9k years old. It's earliest incarnations are from about 1300 BC. Who knows what language would have been around at that time, since I believe it predates all known written languages. But if another recent article is correct, it could have been "indo-european".
The religious aspects of the mideast conflict are practically accidental. There were sizable Jewish communities in Arab and Persian areas of the Middle East (including Palestine) for centuries before WWII. After Hitler spent the better part of 10 years stirring up antisemitism and fascism among the Arabs and the UN-sanctioned takeover of Palestine.... THEN it became a bloody conflict. Why not in any of the 18 centuries before?
anti-semetic is just another word for someone who tells the facts and truth that the ZOG (adl ,jdl, socio-paths ,commies , 70 iq people ,blah ) wants to get everyone else to hate . kinda funny isnt it the only people you cant tell the truth or facts about seem to be jews or who they illicit at the time , but its open season on white . sometimes a horse is just a horse . people that think like that actually have more sense then everyone else. now who knows what was stolen before the report of the finds were givin to the acheologists ?
It is not antisemitic to tell the truth.
But if the "truth" doesn't match the facts (as in the common "truth" in the Muslim world that the Holocaust did not happen) it does not have much value.
And if the truth is used as an excuse to do ill to an entire people based solely on their religion or ancestry, it is racist and the typical definition of antisemitic if the targeted race is Jewish.
Of course you know these things.
The ignorance and the blatant lying is horrifying. Wow, don't you people know your anthropology?
Cannaaites are not related to Jews in anyway, they are a distinct group of peoples that are native to the Levant. Phoenicians are a branch of this family.
Jews are NOT part of this. They are in fact related to Abraham who is from Ur, Iraq. Their cousins the ARABS are the other part of this family. Abraham squatted on Canaanite land and these people fought because the Book thumpers have always been violent. But Canaanites are distinct people who spoke Aramaic and were Pagan before the Arabs came and occupied them and spread Islam to this area.
I love hearing the fear, and the effort to make the puzzle fit it does not.
REad "sharing the land of Canaan" by mazin Qumsiyeh a Yale Professor..he says what I say.
Before I get into a critique of you previous statement, why bother commenting on this topic? You seem to have some very strong reason for holding these beliefs? Plus, that bold type seems overly intense.
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So, you can prove that the intermarrying with the locals, which is mentioned and decried in the Bible, did not really take place? One of the more obvious examples is Samson marrying Delilah, a Philistine.
Sorry, I am not going to read the whole book, but I will read a review of it....... is it a thought like the following that that got your juices flowing?
This goes against other genetic analysis that show common matrilineal descent (motochondreal DNA) and common partrilineal descent (Y-chromosome DNA) between Jewish people.
The part that you may have glossed over is that Qumsiyeh says that branches of Judaism other than Ashkenazim are related to "Palestinians and other Arabs"
WOW!! that's stretching your imagination a bit! a bovine figurine????
I just discovered my 1/2 mile gravel driveway contains thousands of rock figurines resembling the entire menagerie of Noah and his ark! Anyone wishing to send some $$$ for further research of the find(s)?
I can see the "ram" but the "rock with bumps" is another matter! Perhaps if NASA analyzes the rock, we'll find they're billions of years old and originated on Mars!
The bottom is a Re'em, which is the extinct animal species mostly called aurochs. These bovines make ours look like baby cows and were hunted very commonly throughout history to the point of extinction around the 1600s which showed how much we hunted as they were EXTREMELY common all over the Euro-Asia area.
The stone is still a practically formless blob.... unless the Re'em was also formless and/or blobby? Also, we may be missing the inscription on the bottom.
Yes, the Re'em was a remarkably formless blobby bovine... I'm done.
It probably says "Villeroy and Bosch" on the bottom. The archeologists forgot to check while analyzing the formless shape of the rock.
Interesting considering that the earth is only 6,000 years old. Yes, I'm being facetious.
Just another goat paper weight, So much "faith" put into old pottery.
it's stone, pre-pottery
well i thought they could not carbon date stone ??? , if it is true that they are 9000 years old than how is relgion got to do with these items , people than was hunters an travelers they move around for food no time for to much thinking
The article doesn't mention any carbon dating, but perhaps there was organics at that layer or maybe they dated by sediment level.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/geology/dinosaur-bone-age1.htm
http://www.seillevalley.com/Dating.htm
So, how do you know they weren't 'male idols' intended for other purposes? After all, these came from the pre-righteous era.
I believe in God and have and do ask for his foregivness daily. I'm not holy but I believe I am forgiven and cleansed by the blood of Jesus. It's that price that was paid is why we must fear the Lord and obey his commandments. Our salvation was not bought with gold or silver or anything that passes away. It was bought with the blood of Christ. Now I try to live my life and obey Gods commandments and fear God for I know his judgement is true. If I can live my life trying to obey the commandments and seeking Gods help and 'you' are right what have 'I' lost? I've lived a holy life as best I can and obeyed the commandments of God. If you are wrong what have you 'lost'?
Gotta love a Pascal's Wager.
So your faith is based on fear? Your god certainly doesn't seem worthy of worship if you have to "fear" him.
I would have to disagree. When you are living under the master of a household, you follow his rules. You fear him because he can throw you out, or not feed you rations under his grace. Of course, your faith in him need not be complete.
Except your "master" doesn't exist, nor does he own us or our "house!"
gordy I am gonna break my own personal ideal and call you a name. You are a nincompoop.
Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Opinion (aka Speech) is intrinsic to my country, which happens to be America. I thank the Essence that created us (we had to start somewhere, somehow, and we can name it anything we durn well please) ... that we finally have arrived at these laws to live by in our Constitution. These are important survival skills.
So long as they do No Harm to another.
gordy, you're trying to silence someone with whom you do not agree, when he is not proposing any harm to any other person. That's a mortal sin on your part in my not so humble opinion. And yep... I rather admire the literary metaphor of "mortal" (figurative death-inviting adjective) "sin" (serious wrong-doing against another person)... and I challenge you to try to deny me use of it.
You do not acknowledge a symbol that masters you? I could make a rather significant guess on that question, but will refrain, for the moment... however ....
I am Irish and I tend to fight back... verbally of course. I'll take you on any time.
Well, personal attacks speaks volumes about the weakness of your position and lack of credibility.
Except neither our laws or constitution is based on any deity or religious ideology.
Point out specifically where I'm silencing anyone! I simply point out fallacious reasoning and logical fallacies!
I don't believe in your concept of sin, nor is it applicable. You're free to believe it if you want.
I wouldn't think of it.
I do not acknowledge a supernatural entity or construct that "masters" me! At least not without proof of the existence of such a thing.
Is that supposed to be a threat? I'm not impressed!
I think finding these are really interesting. The first one does look like a ram, but the secound one looks like a pig with it's long body and short ears and blunt snout.
If it was in America, the Government would confiscate them and force the owner to pay taxes...even after the fact.
Imagine finding and then holding something that old, some ancient person made almost 10,000 years ago. Unreal!!
Go out side and pick up a rock! I imagine thats how it would feel!
Hi Plork
I rarely agree with you but on this post, you are 100% spot on! Imagination is what allows hmans to progress forward.
Darn, I thought this would be about some ancient cereal
Present occupiers??????? and who do you think these present occupiers are pray tell. Had to throw that one in, didn't you. There are no occupiers, are you an occupier here in the US did it belong to you? were you here first. Ever been to Israel? or do you know what you think you know from the media. How did this article become a religious and political issue. But as usual when it has to do with Israel well need I say more. Just take it for what it is, they found them they are ancient figurines end of story. And for the individual wit the comment about Netanyahu all I have to say is 2 words be quiet......
When ever one of these digs happens its always funny. "This artifact must have been significant because......" The ego on these people are amazing. If you find it it MUST BE artifact of improtance. Now, Im not saying its bad. Those guys have to basically prostitute themselves out to get the rest of the money they need. So they need to be confident and charasmatic. So back to what I was going at. What if these carvings were not significant. What if it was a guy sitting outside his tent. Waiting for his wife to get ready. Picks up a stone and carves something he's looking at. "Come on Sahriah, we gotta get going com'on already. Were gonna be late!" What if it was something carved as a kids toy to shut them the hell up on a long trip. What if it was a kid passing the time on a long boring wagon ride. They have no idea what it was. Hunting talismans. Ok yea it could have been. Could have been carved by the guy that was watching the flocks and was really FREAKIN BORED. So I applaud these guys for the knowledge and willingness to do these things. I couldnt and wouldnt be able to. I just think its funny cause everything is significant. I can almost imagine: "Sahriah, sorry I dropped your necklaces down the out house hole. Were just gonna have to get you more cause I aint sticking my hand in there."
One more thing. I am suprised this dig wasnt being spun either direction for who has right to Jerusalem. They usually end up being that. Layers upon layers an so on.
Wow , and I was just getting it in my head that the world isn't flat and WE orbit the Sun , now they are trying to say the earth is more than 5,000 yrs old . blasphemy so now off with someones head
I would have those bad boys on e-bay quicker then you can say "but it now".
Nothing new here as to the Jews taking artifacts that belog to another culture. Go visit the British Museum sometime and see all the stuff they stole.
You are saying that the British museum is full of artifacts taken by Jews, instead of being taken by Britons? Or are you saying that the Britons are Jews? Or are you saying that anyone you don't like is a "jew"?
I have a hard time deciphering your bigotry.
ROFL regarding OVUgirl.... you sooo right Ben Birdsey! She seemed to have stopped reading the article at the first sentence and missed the information that the artifacts were created by humans now extinct... representing an earlier development of humanoids.
hmm or maybe I am wrong. About the extinction of those primitives. One person here who commented pointed out that the archaeologist who made the discovery had a Muslim name. I see that as a really positive observation, because it suggests that educated Muslims are good folks and smart and willing to be upbeat and highly thought of during their lives in Israel.
The primitives are those of us who like to write put-downs about others. Philosophically speaking. I think. I wonder if it might be an earlier manifestation of human development? Perhaps I am (and she is) not yet complete physiologically to keep up with other humans who have matured earlier?
These posts do offer interesting contrasts along those lines!!!
There is no such thing as a "Muslim name". There are Arabic names but none derived from their religion. And why would Muslims not want to be thought well of anywhere they live? Don't people in general want the same things?
This find neither reinforces nor undermines anyone's claim of legitimacy. Just ancient history, folks. Save your bile for something more controversial.
And I hope those of us reading your comment, Procrustes, note that you use the word "bile," (with which I agree with you about :) ). and not do what I first did, which was to miss-see the word (I read too fast) and thought at first it said "bible."
O! don't think I am suggesting a rewrite!!! It's a well-written concise comment here, and absolutely true. ;)