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Subscribe to RSSThe Mars Rover has detected the first on-the-ground evidence of an ancient streambed. If there was water, could Mars have supported life? NBC's Tom Costello reports
A close look at pebble-filled layers of rock has convinced scientists that NASA's Curiosity rover is driving through a dried-up stream bed on Mars where water flowed vigorously billions of years ago. They say it's the kind of place that just might have supported life when the planet was young.
"This is a rock that was formed in the presence of water," Caltech's John Grotzinger, project scientist for the $2.5 billion Mars Science Laboratory mission, said today during a televised news conference at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.
The evidence is in the shape, size and composition of the rocks that Curiosity came across at multiple sites during its landing on Aug. 5. Conglomerate rocks, consisting of pebbles cemented together within layers of sediment, were seen at three sites:
- Goulburn, a bedrock formation that was exposed by the blast from Curiosity's descent.
- Link, a rock outcrop that was seen once Curiosity headed out from the landing site.
- Hottah, an uplifted slab of craggy rock that was given a visual inspection two weeks ago.
Hottah in particular showed clear evidence of rounded pebbles that were too big to be smoothed by the action of the wind. Some of the rocks are as big as golf balls. The best explanation for the gravelly pebbles was that they were eroded by the vigorous flow of water, said Curiosity science team member Rebecca Williams, a senior scientist at the Arizona-based Planetary Science Institute.
The Hottah slab, which measures 4 to 6 inches (10 to 15 centimeters) thick, looks as if "somebody came along the surface of Mars with a jackhammer and lifted up a sidewalk that you might see in downtown LA, sort of like in a construction site," Grotzinger said.
NASA / JPL-Caltech / MSSS
A closeup view of the "Hottah" rock outcrop shows the characteristic pebbly rock that is associated with the action of a flowing stream. Broken surfaces of the outcrop have rounded, gravel clasts, such as the one circled in white, which is about 1.2 inches (3 centimeters) across. The rock formation was named after Hottah Lake in Canada's Northwest Territories.
The Planetary Science Institute's Rebecca Williams describes new images from Mars.
NASA / JPL-Caltech / MSSS / PSI
This set of images compares the Link outcrop of rocks on Mars (left) with similar rocks seen on Earth (right). The image of Link, obtained by NASA's Curiosity rover, shows rounded gravel fragments, or clasts, up to a couple of inches (few centimeters) wide, within the rock outcrop. In accordance with the Mars mission's tradition, Link takes its name from a rock formation in Canada's Northwest Territories.
The evidence from the ground meshes well with the evidence from orbit indicating that Curiosity is near an 11-mile-wide (18-kilometer-wide) fan of material that may have washed down a channel in ancient times, when Mars was warmer and wetter, according to William Dietrich, a planetary scientist at the University of California at Berkeley.
"These stones ... are very, very revealing to us about the process," Dietrich said. Some previous research has suggested that water flowed on Mars only for brief periods, separated by long, cold, dry spells. That scenario might not have provided enough time for life to get a foothold on the Red Planet in ancient times. But Dietrich said the patterning of the channels within the fan suggested that water streamed through the area for well beyond a thousand-year time scale.
"We can step away from the idea that there was a single burst of water ... that built it all in a day," he told reporters.
Based on the size of the gravel seen by Curiosity, Dietrich estimated that the water moved at a speed of about 3 feet (1 meter) per second, at a depth somewhere between ankle and hip deep.
"Plenty of papers have been written about channels on Mars with many different hypotheses about the flows in them," Dietrich said in a NASA news release. "This is the first time we're actually seeing water-transported gravel on Mars. This is a transition from speculation about the size of streambed material to direct observation of it."
NASA / JPL-Caltech / Univ. of Ariz.
This image shows the topography, with shading added, around the area where NASA's Curiosity rover landed. Higher elevations are colored in red, with cooler colors indicating transitions downslope to lower elevations. The map highlights an alluvial fan of material, apparently issuing from a channel named Peace Vallis. The black oval indicates the targeted landing area for the rover known as the "landing ellipse," and the cross shows where the rover actually landed.
NASA / JPL-Caltech / UC-Berkeley
This image shows a dry streambed on an alluvial fan in Chile's Atacama Desert, revealing the typical patchy, heterogeneous mixture of grain sizes deposited together. On Mars, Curiosity has seen two rock outcrops close to its Bradbury Landing site that also record a mixture of sand and pebbles transported by water. Scientists say the mixture was probably deposited along an ancient streambed.
So far, the scientists' conclusions are based exclusively on visual observations by Curiosity's high-resolution Mastcam imager. Further imagery, along with chemical readings from other instruments on the rover, will likely be used to fill out the story of the ancient stream bed, Grotzinger said.
The main goal of Curiosity's two-year primary mission is to assess how habitable Mars was in ancient times. That's why mission managers chose 96-mile-wide (154-kilometer-wide) Gale Crater as Curiosity's landing site. It has that alluvial fan, which appears to issue forth from a channel that has now officially been designated Peace Vallis. It also has a 3-mile-high (5-kilometer-high) mountain, known as Aeolis Mons or Mount Sharp, which could preserve billions of years' worth of Mars' geological record.
Grotzinger noted that the three requirements for habitability typically listed by astrobiologists are the presence of liquid water, the availability of an energy source (such as sunlight) and the presence of carbon-based compounds that can be used as the building blocks of life.
"Now we've got a hall pass for the water examination," Grotzinger joked.
Theoretically, a long-flowing stream could be a habitable environment. "It is not our top choice as an environment for preservation of organics, though," Grotzinger said in NASA's news release. "We're still going to Mount Sharp, but this is insurance that we have already found our first potentially habitable environment."
Even if the rover's instruments detect the right kinds of carbon compounds, that would not serve as confirmation of ancient life on Mars. That would "have to wait for another mission," Grotzinger said.
More from Mars Curiosity:
- See a crescent moon in Martian sky
- Curiosity touches first rock, then takes off
- Mars rover spots mini-moon's transit
- Cosmic Log archive on the Mars mission
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. To keep up with Cosmic Log as well as NBCNews.com's other stories about science and space, sign up for the Tech & Science newsletter, delivered to your email in-box every weekday. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
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I think they should have attached a fishing pole to the arm of the rover...and maybe a fishing hat on top.
Yeah, who knows? Maybe Curiosity will catch an ichthys.
This must have happened after the rule of the Romnians - it all dried up and blew away.
I hope we brought a flag to plant to name AND claim this river or within 20 years China will show up, claim it, and put a dam across it, just because they have the money and just in case it rains again upstream on Mars.
Yes, Glen. We should draw a detailed map, named all the places, and turn in to UN as a claim of ownership.
I love this place! I see a Marriott here soon.
Someone has obviously been pouring concrete on Mars.
Having spent hundreds of hours observing at the eyepieces of telescopes, I have always believed Percevell Lowell, having spent thousands of hours observing at the eyepieces of much larger telescopes, was correct in his past observations and comments about liquid, flowing water in CANALS on MARS.
Perhaps it is now time to give him the credit and recognition he has been denied.
The problem with that is that Lowell saw things which didn't exist on both Mars & Venus. The "canals'" didn't/don't exist, were not created by intelligent life as he claimed, were not seasonal as he claimed (his explanation is unrelated to the actual seasonal changes in Mars' appearance) and have no relationship to the water related features discovered by probes to Mars.
Lowell was wrong, "in his past observations and comments about liquid, flowing water in CANALS on MARS." Any evidence of surface water shaped features would have only been observable from Earth billions of years ago.
Lowell had a distinguished career in promoting observational astronomy and was one of astronomy's great popularizers and has received credit & recognition for those attributes. His writings on Japan are well respected, as is his public pacifism in the face of American Jingoism during WW1.
Powell has been given the "credit & recognition" he deserved. His Martian observations/theories have certainly been recognized as a prime example of seeing what you desire to see rather than what is really there and serves as a cautionary tale for us today.
Umm, I think the article said that water flowed billions of years ago. I think the "canals" were dried up long before Percevell was born.
Percival Lowell saw things, but water on Mars was NOT one of them. Water may have flowed on Mars billions of years ago, and the findings keep looking good to support that theory, but said water likely dried up long before any dinosaur lived on our planet, let alone any human.
No one knows for sure how fast a planet can die. So no one can say for sure how long ago water flowed on Mars, or if it was even water. You do not need water to make some of those features either. Just a liquid that was part of the weather system at the time, and chemically reacted with the environment. There are places in our solar system that rain liquid methane, sulfuric acid, etc, and they will erode things just as well as water does.
Percival Lowell may not have always been correct on some things from the past.
No one else has, or will be, either.
If no one witnessed the past, it is just a guess as to when and how things happened. No matter what we learn from sending probes to far away places, the past will remain an educated guess.
and Ray Bradbury too...
I second you. Notice the picture vs them saying "billions of years ago". The picture shows a recent stream bed. There are frequent sand-storms on Mars. Therefore, if that stream bed was "ancient", it would have been covered up.
Lmao!!!
On the contrary, it looks like ancient concrete to me. I wonder if there is more they aren't showing us. The concrete also looks like it broke symmetrically. Like some major catastrophy. An ancient WW, a meteor, maybe a super volcano and we are what's left of the martian race.
Blue skies on mars!
If it were from a cataclysmic event, it would be a breccia, not a conglomerate. Breccias are common sedimentary rocks on Earth(as are conglomerates), e,g; impact breccia, fault breccia,... ect.
i really think there is more to this than they are letting us know as in most of the world situations go and
honestly this could be the old old old world dried and used up had to more what do you think
Which leads to the obvious conclusion: Billions of years ago , we lived on Mars and as it dried up we made our way to Earth. The crop formations used as incoming guidance systems of other colonists. Of course, somehow we lost the technology to rebuild space ships until now but that is besides the point.
Well folks, I've gotta say, that slab DOES look like old concrete. I work in highway construction and I've seen a lot of slabs of old concrete and there is a definite similarity. I also know there are dozens of ways a "concrete-like" slab can be created naturally. I'm just sayin...it looks like old concrete to me.
As far as the Lowell discussion goes, I'm still not prepared to say that his larger hypothesis that the "canals" are artificial constructs made by some form of intelligent life is all wrong. No, there was no life there when Lowell made his dramatic findings and there was no water in the canals. But the canals DO look artificial, not natural. I think it possible (not probable, but possible) the canals were CONSTRUCTED as some far distant ancient past on Mars.
I'm also not convinced that life, in some form, cannot still be found on Mars today. If you've got liquid water..or even frozen water for that matter..you've got the possibility of life. So don't rule out the possibility.....
...there will be worms.
Aha - This looks like a good place to advance my theory! Mars comes equipped with a weak gravity and even weaker magnetic field. I believe both are necessary for water to form and collect. With weak gravity you get low atmospheric pressure and water vapor velocities can exceed escape velocity, while a magnetic field steers solar wind consisting mostly of ionized hydrogen toward the poles. I have never seen an article pro or con that accounts for these particles that can be seen in the Northern lights on earth. Perhaps they react with the ozone in the polar regions on earth and produce water vapor. Not saying its true but can't one speculate?
I agree wje37fcsm .... Ive said on other vines that Mars was wetter and has and is going thru a "sterilization" process. I also agree that the forces that produced the "river bed" does not have to be water. Never the less, I second that A. Mars was wetter BUT not as "persistent" as Earth. B. The "age" of Mars does not put it "much" older than earth so it stand to reason that "forces" that affected Mars also affected earth... indeed study of impact craters on earth confirm that the "extraterrestrial" rocks could be Martian.
I don't think that the magnetosphere "produces" water vapor but it is no question that it protects and preserves our planets "current" conditions.
Flame - What I'm trying to say is that the hydrogen plasma of the solar wind must be very reactive and if it is steered to the magnetic poles of the earth it has to react with something. There aren't big piles of protons and electrons in the arctic regions, and over the course of 4 billion years there must be some accumulation of the stuff. I tend to think that some of it is responsible for our oceans. The solar system is full of water but not on the sun, or Mars. Jupiter and its moons have a lot of it. Saturn's rings are mostly ice. Over the course of our solar system a lot of water was produced and there has got to be a mechanism for its chemical production.
wje37fcsm - Keep in mind that most of what comes from the sun in the form of the solar wind is actually electrons, with a fair amount of protons thrown in. While the magnetic field certainly does direct a good deal of these particles towards Earth's poles, very few of them actually make it anywhere near the Earth's atmosphere. This means that for the most part, they are trapped with stray electrons in the upper reaches of the magnetosphere and once a good deal of the energy they carry (from the Sun's immense heat) is lost they will ultimately combine together to form elemental hydrogen which will dissipate in to space.
While your theory is logical, it forgets the one key point that most of the solar particles caught by the magnetosphere never come close to Earth's atmosphere. This means its unlikely to react with the molecular oxygen in the atmosphere and create water.
Evox - you make an excellent point. Solar wind plasma is very light and should easily carry escape velocities even if they are caught in a planets magnetic field, yet there is a lot of ice in the outer reaches of the solar system. This H2O had to come from some place, and probably a lot of it from the primary elements that formed the solar system 4 billion plus years ago. That stuff supposedly was manufactured in a super-nova and was loaded with the heavier elements which condensed into the sun and planets. If there is no present mechanism for the manufacture of common compounds such as CO2 and H2O there must have been one in the past. Mars once had flowing water that apparently sublimated into space, and event that hasn't taken place on earth. What are the differences, stronger gravitation, higher vapor pressure and a great big magnetic field.
This is great find and very exciting news!
Agreed. This is pretty significant stuff -- direct, on-the-ground observable evidence of water (and lots of it) having been present on Mars. Should be more prominent in the daily news blather, but I suppose science, discovery, and technology aren't at the forefront of most Americans' thinking. Still, I'm glad that we continue to have curious and scientifically minded people who are keen to discover more about our world and our universe.
I agree that this discovery deserves front page attention, but sadly amazing things like this have become too commonplace and banal to excite the average Joe. Still, I am thrilled NASA has found clear evidence of flowing water on the surface of Mars, even if it was flowing a billion years ago or more: it shows Mars experienced similar geological and hydrological events in its history as Earth. I hope there are more breakthroughs to come! This is big news!
Kudos to NASA!
Hmmm, also shows our world may well be headed down the same road as Mars.
I'm glad some others feel as excited as I do--for a while now it seemed that the hypothesis of surface water on Mars was losing ground. I know Dr. Dietrich from his work with my colleagues in Berkeley related to fluvial geomorphology and river restoration--I can't think of a more knowledgeable person to confirm the origin of this formation's characteristics and I know he has written papers on Martian geomorphology and had some influence on where Curiosity would land to find these features. All of the scientists on this project must be so thrilled to have found this feature so soon. This entire mission has been incredible and incredibly successful. I only wish more of my tax dollars went to science and the space program--it is pitiful how little they have to work with. I guess that's a result of having no scientists in politics--business people only know how to seek money, while scientists seek knowledge. The first confirmation in history that water has flowed elsewhere besides just Earth--pretty damn exciting!
I agree entirely with how incredible this finding and this project is. However, your last statement isn't entirely correct. The Cassini space probe around Saturn has found and tested that the moon Enceladus (sp?) actually spews massive geysers of liquid water. That, in it of itself, is pretty exciting. I think if we find extraterrestrial life, it could start there (on the microscopic level)
I really think at some point in time we will have to visit Mars and see if any fossil record exist's Can you imagine if we found a fossil record of past species on Mar's.What a discovery that would be,when can I pack?
As soon as you learn how to use apostrophes correctly! :) Hehe.
I would imagine the most advanced fossils that might be discovered on Mars would be similar to terrestrial stromatolites. Perhaps fossil evidence would not reveal details of life that was even as organized as that, but the nature of Mars' history suggests any life that might have evolved would not have had time to become more complicated than simple unicellular forms that are found on Earth. Still, a discovery of life on Mars, even simple life, would raise profound questions about life, the universe, and our place in it. It's exciting to contemplate!
They'll find rusted out cars and old buildings.
Did you know that the Mars Rover uses Chromium silicate impregnated into it's hull to protect it from the Cosmic Rays of space.
Doc Eugene, you're sooo close- the hull is there to protect it from the Terrible Secret of Space!
The presence of water on Mars is really not news.
Right, but it's an item that Curiosity can "check off its list" in the search for signs of potential habitability. Also, the terrain suggests that water flowed there pretty intensely for a significant while, which is promising.
I disagree. This sort of discovery is most definitely news! Justin Bieber's newest crappy song or Kim Kardashian's latest dalliances -- THOSE are the things than shouldn't qualify as news.
The fact that this much small weathered gravel exists means a lot of things, In order to have flowing streams this suggests a lot of rain and or very likely formations of ice melting and feeding the streams for very long periods. This almost implies that seasons at least similar to what we see had to exist for many, many years. To get that degree of erosion means many millions upon millions of gallons of flowing water. In order to have such sustain continuous flows you almost must have the typical climate mechanisms that would continue to cycle this water into very long duration flows. Very likely at least substantial ice caps, if not glacial type formations.
What is also interesting is how this gravel is embedded and bonded with this fine material matrix. This material that almost looks like broken concrete formed together so close to the surface is intriguing. Besides the pebbles being a big clue to long flowing water, all the much smaller particles that make up the "mortar" are interesting too. It appears too that different types of rock may be contained within the gravel. So the question becomes, what are they all and where on the planet did they come from? What appears to be a wide variety of different material making up these "slabs", suggest water flowing significant distance to pick up such a variety of material of varying size.
Pools of condensed water just sitting around are one thing which could occur over just a relatively short period, but this evidence suggests so much more. A flowing stream is really a complex set of processes. That means that these were not formed by just a relatively small number of water related events, but rather a continuous water process over a very, very long time. An active, "living, breathing" planet with continuing cycles. It also means not just some water, but a lot of water at least for a while. Whether or not there was any life, we almost now know for sure that at one time Mars really didn't look so different than Earth. In order to move this much water around in the cycles necessary to support these long sustained flows, that pretty much means Mars had a significant atmosphere and real weather.
These are all things we have suspected but really had no proof of. There was far more going on here that just a hot rock with a little water vapor that slowly cooled down. There were very life like processes going on and it was going on for a very long time. This really is very significant.
Not only significant (and I'm convinced the water flowed there), but also raises a few questions, like "Where did the water go?" "How did it get there?" "Was there biologicals in it?" "Can it come back? And, if not, could this imply that Earth could share a similar fate someday?"
LOTS of questions will certainly arise out of this find.
willieturner, You are so wrong--This is the FIRST DIRECT OBSERVATION of features that required flowing water to form. Not only that, but a feature that required the existence of a significantly sized stream channel active for over a thousand years for its creation. The existence of flowing surface water creating features on Mars was only a hypothesis until now and some scientists had recently begun to doubt suggest that other mechanisms may have been the origin.
yeah-right,
All good questions. As I said, I am intrigued with the "slabs" on the surface. It is on thing when such things form under the pressure and weight of many layers above them like we see in outcrops, but this looks so much like concrete with aggregate in it, that makes me suspect that to form on the surface it very likely has some organics mixed in with it bonding it together. The complete chemical analysis of this will be very interesting.
Most likely the water got there much like it got to Earth most likely by comets. It is pretty safe to assume that Mars was similarly exposed to bombardment from space. As far a where it went, it could be trapped in sub surface ice, but more likely it was blown out into space, out of the atmosphere by solar winds. Our atmosphere would vanish pretty quickly without a magnet field shielding us from the solar winds. This new evidence just supports that Mars likely had one at one time that eventually degraded. I don't think we have a very good idea of what Mars' core is made of. It may or may not be iron. A lot of factors come into play as to why it would solidify, but most likely going from molten to solid is what caused the field to weaken. Size matters too because gravity and frictional forces associated with it play a role in providing enough heat energy to keep it molten. The presence of streams almost assures that at one time Mars had a significant atmosphere. To form continuing streams, you need a lot going on that obviously stopped quite awhile ago. If it had a decent atmosphere, it most likely had a pretty good magnetic field at least for some time.
At least some trapped water in subsurface ice exists as we saw that at the polar region. But to create a significant atmosphere again probably isn't possible without the magnetic field. Based on what we know at this time it seems like "terra-forming" Mars, wouldn't work unless we could find a way to contain the atmosphere.
I think that with what the stream existence tells us, we know liquid water existed there for a very long time and that just increases the likelihood of some life forms having existed. Maybe not living creatures like we think of them or even vegetation, but something like bacteria and maybe even algae? Possible.
As to being a predictor of Earth's eventual fate? Sure, it very much could be. That "thin blue line" is key to our existence and we need the magnetic field to keepit. There seems to be evidence suggesting that our field is weakening or at least changing. Even anomalies causing "holes" in the field pose a threat for some of the atmosphere being stripped away. Severe climate change could disrupt the weather cycles that keep everything "running" here on Earth. There very well may be a few different mechanisms that could turn us into a Mars like planet.
I think I saw a tiny gold nugget in one of those photo's ?
Thanks Alan Boyle
I don't see why they don't zap a few more rocks and run some other tests right where they are before proceeding to their intended destination. Had there been life in that river, there could be carbon traces to help put another piece of the puzzle together. If they decide that their destination was a bust, and there was nothing good there, they would need to back track (how lame) or forage forward. Where they are is as good a spot as any to start using all the fancy lab equipment the sent there.
Really...what does it matter in the big picture? Except that we can export liberals into space. BTW, my Glock .45 beats your S&W .45 any day. LOL!!!
@jeepmanjr,
Evidently you have no idea what you are talking about, just several troll remarks, that's all.
I don't see why they don't zap a few more rocks and run some other tests right where they are before proceeding to their intended destination. Had there been life in that river, there could be carbon traces to help put another piece of the puzzle together. If they decide that their destination was a bust, and there was nothing good there, they would need to back track (how lame) or forage forward. Where they are is as good a spot as any to start using all the fancy lab equipment the sent there.
"Had there been life in that river, there could be carbon traces..."
Life isn't the only possible source of carbon there. Especially in an atmosphere that's mostly CO2...
Interesting article. I remember very little from my studies in Geology 101 and 102 back in college., but I do remember how profoundly water can alter the landscape such as spreading gravel around. Fascinating to think of ancient riverbeds on Mars.
There is no rover on Mars. It's in a desert right here on Earth. The money for the rover really went into top secret military projects at Area 51. People are so damn gullible!
That's right Ave, they still have you believing the Earth is flat and the Sun revolves around the Earth too.
Ave, your tin foil hat is too tight. I bet you believe we did not land on the Moon too. Why not find Buzz Aldrin and tell him he never landed on the Moon.
Ave bought the cheap store brand tinfoil and it shrank in the rain.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt for just an instant on what happens in Area 51, the budgets of 'black' military projects just show up as some non-specific DoD spending. They don't have to be 'disguised' as something completely different...
Get real.
Rush just said that Mars was once lush but was ruined by "liberals". He also said Obama's responsible somehow. Watch the film "Obama: Mars 2000 B.C."
[the preceding was satire, no offense can possibly be intended nor taken, unless of course you actually believe such nonsense]
Idiot.
jeepmanjr:
(while staring into mirror)
Seriously...who gives a FRA what's on Mars anyway? It's a barren desert devoid of life for Christ's sake. That money could have been put to better use in countless other ways here at home.
There is a never-ending list of need at home. We need more than the mundane to advance our race.
Yeah jeepmanjr I agree and you know what? While we're at it we should outlaw art and music too because people are starving and how dare anyone spend one penny or one minute of any time or resources on earth on anything except feeding hungry people. In fact we should all stop wasting time on the internet and go feed people right now. Also stop wasting time sleeping at night. Or doing anything else...
Think of how many bombs we could have built with that money! Why, we could have invaded a whole new country with that cash! All exploration, all discovery, all curiosity, and all scientific endeavors should be banned permanently!! YEAH!
or how many bibiles could have been printed to help brain wash the non thinkers
jeepmanjr
Got some news for ya, that money WAS spent here in the form of jobs in the manufacturing base, scientific community, launch crews and to the people analyzing the data we are now getting back. The only money sent to Mars is 1 Lincoln penny dated 1909.
Here is a great reason for spending this money. Saving humanity. What if a comet, super volcano etc.. threatens the earth. In time we could have another place to go.
How? Hiring teachers, police, firefighters? Repairing roads? Building schools? Finding you a job? Wow, you sound like the "Socialist Liberal-type" you've been railing against throughout this blog. Disgusting, and very narrow minded.
Significantly recognizing the amount and last time the Romney family paid their share of taxes.
Starbuck, you put that perfectly.
Too often people complain about NASA projects and assume we launched a rocket full of cash into space, forgetting that people here on Earth designed, built and monitor those missions and the money they were/are paid is going back into our economy.
"Seriously...who gives a FRA what's on Mars anyway?"
We do. Next question?
Yea,,, another war perhaps?
As soon as Curiosity encounters a massive wind storm not only will those little pebbles be blown away so will Curiosity. The money spent on this garbage would be better spent on earth. I could care less if there was once water or anything living on Mars, we will never!
So is everything supposed to be about what you want and care about?
Why don't these troll rightwingers stick to the Faux Noise Nonsense blog site? There, they can argue in an ever-swirling, downward spiral of uneducated and narrowminded mass of BS.
Confussed,
If more people were like you, we would still be living in caves as hunter-gatherers. Fortunately for us, a few humans looked to the future of all humans, not the present of only themselves, and dared to move beyond the cave and beyond the horizon, sail to the New World, and take one small step for mankind.
"As soon as Curiosity encounters a massive wind storm not only will those little pebbles be blown away so will Curiosity."
Hmm. Just like previous rovers and landers, all of which were lighter? Sure.
Pretty neat stuff. I will be emmensely excited if they can uncover fossil evidence of life forms. Now that would flip my bit!
I've seen it a thousand times in the Grand Canyon.
When you can say you've sen it on a different planet, get back to us...
Please find a marine fossil..please find a marine fossil..please find a marine fossil (fingers crossed)
That would be awesome! I know that officially, the mission is to ''find evidence of potential ancient habitability", but we all know everyone at NASA is thinking.... "please find a marine fossil..." just like we all are. :)
Not likely to be many marine fossils in a fluvial river system but they might look for biomarkers of algal or microbial mats. Biomarkers are organic compounds that are organism specific.
Head up young man..THERE'S GOLD ON MARS!
And oil, natural gas, silver, diamonds,iron ore,uramium,and marijuana!
I'd hope so. It may take private industry / corporations to ever get humans on Mars.
Rtypo..it will happen..I know it will. But..we both be dead like for a few hundred years already..maybe someone we are related too can do it in the future.
Mike277, it may take 20-30 years, but not centuries. I'm rooting for Elon Musk. Getting a manned mission to Mars is one of his big goals. Maybe he'll get us there in 15 years...
I hope they do find something worth of man's greed. Otherwise, we are just looking at our future landfill. Atleast then, we wont have to stare at all our own waste. I'm holding out for the mass marijuana fields, Mike277, lol. I wonder when the first law concerning Mars or the Moon is going to be passed by Congress? hmmmm........
And gold fish bones..makes another poster happy!
Old sayin was..head WEST young man! Now its ***UP***!
This comment is for everyone who thinks this money can be spent better elsewhere on earth. I have two points to make on this: 1.) The survival of the human race depends on space travel. At some point in time the earth will be inhabitable to humans via an asteroid impact, the sun dying out, or some other cosmic event. We would be selfish to humanity by not investing in research that will contribute to the survival of humanity. As mundane as it sounds, finding out if water/life existed on Mars is an important part to understanding how the universe works which will be extremely beneficial when humanity has to move elsewhere. 2.) The money spent on space exploration does not just go up into space with the rockets being launched. There are thousands of people employed by NASA and the companies that support spaceflight and space research. If these people were out of work, then it would just be that many more people to feed. So why not spend the money doing something productive for society instead of just giving it away?
Just asking to anyone..would you rather be born when you were ( me in the 1950's) or be born in the future with a possible chance of living on other planets or even owning one???
I rather stay my way born 1950's..seems slow pace and peaceful compared to these days though..thats life!
I was born in 1954, but I would prefer to have been around when interplanetary travel is a mature technology.
However, I also believe I still can be...
Now this is the kind of Curiosity stories we have all been waiting for! Great job, Alan!
Mars is looking more similar to Earth than we ever thought before. This area looks like it could be a dry lake bed on Earth! Even the colors look similar although there may have been some filtering or color enhancement involved.
I am just waiting for them to image an actual fossil, and there is more than a good chance of that given the optics and tools they have, and considering where they are right now.
I can't believe that frozen water flowed on Mars at any time. Mars would have to have a sun close enough to keep water from freezing. If Mars did have a sun, then where is it?.
Our sun hasn't always been the way it is right now. Millenia ago (and longer), Mars may have been nice and hospitable in the 4th orbital slot, while Earth in the 3rd was frying closer to it's hotter, newer sun.
The speculation is that water was flowing on Mars at least 3.5 billion yeas ago when the planet was warmer and wetter. The Curiosity observations are beginning to support the theory that Mars had flowing water for at least many thousands of years. Here is a link with with some details on the theory that Mars was once wetter and warmer:
http://quest.nasa.gov/aero/planetary/mars.html
Mars did have a sun and still does. It is the same one you see in the sky every day. The theory is that Mars had a much thicker atmosphere long ago that was able to retain heat much better than the very thin atmosphere that exists today on Mars. And it is liquid water that seems to have once flowed on Mars.
Long ago, perhaps billions of years ago, Mars had a dynamo generating a protective magnetosphere. This would have allowed for a much thicker atmosphere than the 1 percent (of Earth's) it has today. While Mars only receives about half the solar energy that we do, the atmospheric composition may have helped it to retain heat better. 99% of Earth's atmosphere is inert, with regard to 'global warming'. 95% of Mars' current atmosphere is CO2, a GHG. So, if Mars' atmosphere had a much higher percentage of CO2 (than we did) back then, this could have warmed up the planet despite receiving less photons. Perhaps Curiosity can find and zap a rock that has locked-in some of this ancient atmosphere and can tell us what the atmospheric composition was, back then.
It has Olympus Mons, a 14-mile high volcano with slopes formed by flowing lava. That was probably pretty warm.
Mars is inside the Habitable Zone (aka Goldilocks Zone) for planets, meaning it keep water liquid at its surface under the proper conditions. Those conditions no longer exist for flowing liquid water, but ice still forms at its poles (and elsewhere occasionally too I believe).
To my knowledge, we have only had one star in our solar system, the same one we have now (a second star would have had significant effects on Earth). But if Mars had a functional internal dynamo to create a proper (thicker) atmosphere, and a strong magnetic field, the temperature would have been higher thus liquid water could flow. Mars still may have been colder than Earth, but insulation could have raised the temperature to allow for flowing water, just like a lack of said insulation now on Mars prevents such flowing water.
What NASA needs to do is announce they found huge amount of gold. This way our greedy billionaires would furnish the money for the next trip.
That's a good idea but it would take more than gold to motivate that greed. The problem is shipping it back to earth costs more than it's worth. Now if they found something new like "dilithium crystals" or trlithium crystals that could power a star ship, that would be worth getting greedy about! ;)
"What NASA needs to do is announce they found huge amount of gold. This way our greedy billionaires would furnish the money for the next trip."
'Greedy billionaires' can count. It's obvious that transportation costs are far too high at this time to be worth it. Even the Lunar He3 that makes so many people salivate is spread very thinly, and (once you got there) you'd have to process a crapload of regolith to get useful amounts of it out.
Besides, we at least know what to do with gold. There's no market for He3, there are no commercial fusion reactors that can use it yet, and no one can say when there will be.
Oh, and was it also 'greedy billionaires' who ran to California, Alaska and other 'gold rush' locations? Or was it guys like you and me who also wanted to make a buck?
But the chances of success for most of them were so low that almost the only people who really made out well, were the ones who sold all the prospectors their supplies...
(And this is why outfits like SpaceX are basically transportation companies. Sell customers reliable rides to Earth orbit or wherever beyond. What you do once there, is your business.)
well thats all well and good, but after dec 21st? none of it will matter, 1000 years from now a new group of people will land on earth and say there used to be life on this planet,we are doomed to be just like mars is, mars used to have life and soon? earth will also be used to have life on it,not much time left on this planet, maybe 2 months maybe less, we have burnt it out,ever think that with all the pit mining that we have put the earth out of balance? all the people have also put the earth out of balance, but they dontwant to alarm the people of this planet,would cause severe panic,the aliens are here to observe the end of a planet,why there havebeen more ufo sightings,panic? you wont know when it happens, just maybe you wakeup and 2 minutes later you are being sucked out into cold space, no one can rescue this planet, it is over folks, kiss your families goodby,none of it matters anymore, your money wont help you,the green house gases are about depleted, but they the scientists wont tell you this,once again, mass panic on a world wide scale,remember whole civiliazations have vanished on earth, the myans and others,what makes us so special that it cant or wont happen,nothing,we are a experiment gone wrong,the whole worlds civilizations are doomed crime is up wars are up and daily they seem want more wars,the earth was perfectly balanced 154 millionyears ago,.now? it is out of balance and we are ripe for a asteroid hit or just spinning off into space,no matter what it is gonna happen a lot sooner than they willtell you,think of this, when a bomb explodes ? it disrupts the earths balance, the hard land that was part of a balance is disturbed,and ther is no fix for it,no one will remember you or us in a month or so,. be jsut another star that went bad.,world is over populated, and that will put this 3rd rock out of balance, so have sweet dreams, they might be your last
Hey zippy, stay away from LSD man, 2 hits is enough, a whole sheet? You've really gone too far this time!
*giggles*
:D
@zippy: Quick! Reverse the polarity on your tin-foil hat before it causes permanent brain damage.
Maybe Dec 21, 2012 is when the Mayans are coming back to educate us poor slobbering idiots. Or when Elvis come back. Or, when pigs can FINALLY fly.
You have to love Internet rumors, so much fun to play with.
They already do.
They're called Pol-air.
http://www.mygc.com.au/images/articles/2011/11/11/chopper_hero.gif
"well thats all well and good, but after dec 21st?"
Some people will be recovering from celebrating Solstice parties of some kind. That's all I expect and believe will happen...
But if you're convinced it'll all go down the toilet that day, then I dare you to go max out your credit card before then.
Go on. Have the courage of your convictions. I'll watch.