He's a freaking idiot.

This man does not know the mind of God. Does he know his God so well that he can REALLY say, with absolute certainty, that God created everything just a few thousand years ago... or was there a Big Bang theory? And if there was, how does he know that God didn't orchestrate that? "The Bible tells me so"? Well, the Bible has been rewritten a couple of hundred times, pal, and the Catholic Church has worked its butt off to suppress Biblical passages that were in the Old Testament but don't jibe with their policies.

What you believe is what you believe. It's a wonderful bonding feeling when others believe the same. But it is just as insulting those who have science as their "house of worship" as it is to insult believers in other religions, and highly inappropriate to dictate, "I am right because I believe that God is on my side, and you are wrong and will go to Hell because you do not."

The God that this man worships is one that has been heavily edited by the hand of Man over the centuries. Unless you're reading your Bible in Hebrew, with Greek and Aramaic as back-ups, and not relying on English translations and rewrites (like the Mormon Bible, which is rewriting the ENGLISH version based on "divine inspiration"), then you don't know Jack.

Religion and science do not have to conflict. People like Paul Broun will set our country back a hundred years. There is already a "chilling affect" in the science community because a few uniformed politicians are forcing their wacko views on the rest of us. God gave us brains so we could think...develop theories that explain the universe, find a cure for cancer, and invent things to make our lives better. Miracles lie in the hands of those who work hard and make things happen.

Bat@!$%# crazy.

These guys put God in such a small box. . . never occurs to them that the Big Bang was God's idea.

Religion is still the most insidious hoax humanity ever played upon itself.

I believe religion served a valuable purpose to calm the masses when so much about our world was unexplainable. However, it has become a drag on human progress.

I don't agree with the collapse either... but if you actually look at the scientific data, the recent trend is that all land animals evolved from fish. That would include apes and humans.

Soooooooooooooooooo.... Coral Taxi, you saying that sheep & cow clones don't exist cause, real scientists obviously matched a few chromosomes there?

Or, are you saying that humans and ape have no common ancestry, or what?

Please, enlighten us unedumacated peeps with your vast knowledge?

And he's in the GOP? Say it isn't so Joe! lol

Quite a few evangelical leaders have been members of the Democratic Party or supported liberal policies. Among these leaders are Jimmy Carter, Billy Graham, William Jennings Bryan, and Rick Warren.

The 39th President of the United States of America, Jimmy Carter, was a fundamentalist and possibly more religious than Ronald Reagan. Carter was certainly one of the most religious presidents we’ve ever had. He would pray several times a day and always asked himself the question, “If you were arrested for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?” .

Instead of becoming a blind follower to the ironically named “Moral Majority”, he still showed his loyalty to the Democratic Party and instituted liberal energy policies and liberal foreign policy towards Russia.

Billy Graham, possibly the most famous evangelical of all time, is in fact a Democrat. Although he believes that religion needs to stay separate from politics, he still retains his membership with the Democratic Party. Billy Graham has publicly stated that he believes that evangelicals need to stop associating themselves with the Republican Party.

As Reverend Graham once stated, “I’m for morality, but morality goes beyond sex to human freedom and social justice. We as clergy know so very little to speak with authority on the Panama Canal or superiority of armaments. Evangelists cannot be closely identified with any particular party or person. We have to stand in the middle in order to preach to all people, right and left. I haven’t been faithful to my own advice in the past. I will be in the future.”

William Jennings Bryan, a founding member of the modern Democratic Party, retained an extreme fundamentalist view towards religion his entire life. Although he defended creationism in the infamous Scopes Monkey Trial, he was a leader of the Populist movement and a staunch supporter of liberal economic policies.

Bryan was so beloved by the poor and many middle class people that became known as the “Great Commoner”. In his time, he was an avid supporter of anti-imperialism and as big a trust buster as Theodore Roosevelt. Bryan is famous for his “Cross of Gold” speech, which if you haven’t read yet, is possibly the most liberal economic speech ever.

I bet he also believes the Earth is flat and is the center of the Universe. This level of lack of logical thinking lead to many being burned to death by the Catholic church and the Nazis. I find it very disturbing that we have leaders who think this way. Sir you need to get a grip on reality. I really fear for our country. Instead of moving forward we are reverting back to the Dark Ages. Science is the path to proof of a Great Creator. The Big Bang specifically. Physics number one rule is that for every action there is a equal reaction. Therefore something caused the Big Bang and I fully believe it was the Great Creator. Religion has become giant roadblock on the path to a true understanding of our Great Creator. Let us raise above and continue down the path. Religion has given us the following 9-11, the Holocaust, the crusades. And what did these events bring......senseless death and destruction. I truly believe these events only pulled us further away from our Great Creator.

I read recently a wonderful quote applicable to Broun but that was actually about the Taliban. An Afghan, not a member of the Taliban, was asked, when the Taliban were fighting to take over Afghanistan in the 1990's, whether the Taliban were intellectually deficient, backward. The Afghan responded (and I paraphrase), "Of course not. They are among the finest minds of the 14th century."

The radical right really are among the brightest minds of the 14th century.

Nice copy and paste job, Coral. From someone who just posted about no "intermediate fossil evidence" as being the reason evolution hasn't been proven, please don't attempt to discuss protein folding. You are clearly out of your league.

Another example of the incredible degree of ignorance and lack of current knowledge among our Republican legislators. These are the folks who make our laws. Is it any wonder that this country is in so much trouble.

One of the characteristics of true science is the
willingness to entertain, study, and test all hypotheses without bias. The
comments from Rob 1834254, Flaseeker, and Madison-1272000 show extreme bias, and
therefore are totally unscientific. Lets jut put a few facts on the table for
you to weigh the evidence for or against Evolution or Creation, a young earth
vs. an old earth. We must remember that Evolution is a “theory,” not a
scientific fact. The reader should understand, than unless you are dealing with
mathematics, science cannot prove anything. Science only presents evidences by
which we can make conclusions; conclusions that may change when more evidence
is uncovered. Science does not provide absolute truth.

Please consider the following:

1. No evidence of macroevolution – evolution from one
distinct kind to another. We are still waiting for a true missing link. If
evolution is a continuous process (as Darwin described it) that has been going
on for millions of years, there should be millions of transitional forms alive
or in the fossil record. So far there is not one that can be considered a true
missing link. Conclusion with the available data: Evolution is not happening now.

2. Evolution cannot
explain the “Cambrian explosion” – the sudden appearance of a vast array of complex
multi-celled invertebrates. Evolutionist regard the Cambrian explosion as the “most
remarkable and puzzling event in the history of life.” Conclusion from the available data: Evolution never happened in the past.

3. Life out of inanimate chemicals (primordial soup) – the experiments in 1953 by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey have been totally discredited. Miller took molecules which “were believed” to represent the major components of the early Earth's atmosphere and put them into a closed system. Then, simulated lightning “believed” to be common in the early earth. He produced amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. Please note the elements of “faith” in these assumptions, which by the way permeates evolutionary thought. Conclusion: There is no evidence that life as we know it can come out of lifeless chemicals.

4. Evolution violated the natural law of entropy - any system if left alone (do not maintain it) will go to a greater state of randomness. Evolution states the opposite.

5. Polonium halos in the granite rocks point to the massive rocks of the earth forming almost stantaneously, not the millions of years that it took for molten earth to cool as advocated by current geological thinking. Conclusion: the earth may not be as old as advocated by the big bang “theory.”

6. The concept of irreducible complexity – The simplest biological system must have all of its parts to be functional. Therefore the theory that organs and organisms evolved by tiny chance mutations over eons of
time making ever so slowly changes until there is a fully functional organ, would have never been preserved for the next generation based on natural selection, survival of the fittest. The scientific community rejects this concept. It should not be rejected. It should be studied and compared to current thought.

The problem with the congressman is not that he believes in a young earth or that evolution comes from the “pit of hell.” His problem is that he is mixing church and state. Even Jesus said, Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and Give to God, what belongs to God.

Coral, you remind me of Stewie on Family guy, he is smarter than everyone else, but put a baby bottle in front of him and he reveals that he is still an infant.

@The Evil Tessmacher....you are my hero....so many religious nuts here....so many delusional souls who need help dealing with their own existence. Just like all the kids now days who are 'special' and 'gifted' and never held accountable any of thier stupid actions...these people need an invisible person to blame their wretched lives on.

Coral Taxi.. You crack me up. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously? Ha!

@J: There are so many inaccuracies in your copy and paste job that it's not even worth nitpicking it. You don't even understand the concepts of theory and proof.

I'll just tell you one thing: Go look up whale fossil evidence.

Michelle, how did religion give us the Holacaust? And religion, or rather conviction to follow Christ, also gave us Mother Theresa, St Francis of Asisi, more uncredited goodwill by well meaning and acting people than otherwise. Not saying religion is anything close to a relationship with the living God, but I ain't all evil either.

We manipulate energy, biology and matter around us to fit our needs. To think anything other than some sort of intelligent design?

...and he's a medical doctor! Notice he's in Congress and not practicing.

We live in an era where having an understanding of the science behind the various issues we face is not a luxury - it is a necessity if we are to make the right decisions that affect our way of life... our survival. The fact that backwards religious fundamentalists hold not only a position of power, but a position of power on the House Science committee depresses me more than I can say.

The smug stupidity of the religious will ensure our descendants will suffer...

OutOfTheWoods, the issue is not whether is an evangelical Christian or not.

The problem is that he is bat-@!$%# crazy.

Hey J - your conclusions with minimal / invalid data show that you are pitching an agenda. Why is it that all the extremists claim to be experts without knowing shyte from shinola? The reality is that your logic is totally invalid. You are leaping to conclusions without evidence to support the conclusion.

You are intitled to your opinions, but not your own facts. You don't get to cherry pick data to support a false claim. Using your logic - one 'prove' that the earth will burn up before sunset -- just by using the data between 3am and noon anywhere on the planet. One can flip the conclusion by measuring from 2pm to midnight. Neither conclusion is valid. If I can cherry pick my data - I can prove or disprove anything - including gravity.

This man is appallingly backwards. He has no business being in ANY position of influence. An anchor on human progress.

And Coral, look up the whale fossil record if you'd like to see some intermediate species.

There is no doubt that protein families and superfamilies aremonophyletic, that is, they derive from a common ancestor. In contrast,monophyly of protein folds, as opposed to foldsoriginating by convergence from unrelated ancestors, remains an issue of debate.

Maybe you missed his point. Evolution is not a "theory" like lay people think it is, NOT at all. In fact it's proven to about the same degree as the "theory" of gravity. It is indisputable fact based on so much evidence you would have to be ignorant to dispute it - like disputing gravity and jumping off a building.

As he said DNA sequence analysis has demonstrated on complex overlapping layers of evidence that evolution is not only fact but in fact WE did evolve and we can prove it.

One line of evidence that basically proves evolution without a doubt is homeobox gene sequence analysis. Homeobox genes encode critical transcription factors that control gene expression cascades during the process of growth from a single cell to an organism. Since it is such a crucial and complex function for the growth of an organism it is highly-conserved. The term "highly-conserved" means it is basically the exactly same sequence in you and in a toad, or a fish and are even highly-conserved in plants. Yes, that's right the critical DNA sequences that orchestrate your growth from a zygote are the same in every animal and plant. This proves everything evolved.

Another line of analysis that can pretty much stand-alone supporting evolution is mDNA (mitochondrial DNA). Every human actually has two sets of DNA! One in the nucleus of every cell (except egg and sperm and red blood cells) and another separate set of DNA inside mitochondrial DNA - outside the nucleus. Analysis of this DNA is particularly useful because it is only passed down to offspring via the mother (sperm carries no mDNA only the egg). This fact means there is no recombination and the DNA only changes via spontaneous mutations. This allows us to make details population studies by sequencing and analyzing DNA sequences. It also allows us to show in statistical detail when humans split from other apes many thousands of years ago. Even cooler, the analysis of mitochondria shows they were at some point in the ancient past a separate organism that merged with a larger single cell organism to create the first complex cell capable of living as a multicellular organism. Almost every cell in your body is actually a vestige of two ancient independent organisms over a billion years ago. Of course the mitochondria is the powerhouse of cells and we needed that energy to power cells in complex organisms like humans. Well, it proves we evolved.

DNA sequence analysis proves we evolved by statistically comparing the gene sequences of thousands of humans and many thousands of animals and plants. We can prove and even draw a complex map of when and why new species evolved. It is proof, like an apple falling on your head.

Then there's developmental biology and ideas first presented as ontology recapitulates ontology. What this described was the fact that all animals go through stages of development and they reflect actual evolution of species. This is the reason human embryos have tails, gills, and other characteristics clearly seen only in other lower present day species. You also can't tell the difference between a human and fish embryo until quite late in development. The reason is the gene sequences that fire off in cascades to build a human are pretty much the same as those to build a fish - humans just go a bit longer and have more "building." Pretty hard to dispute in correlation to other supporting DNA statistical analysis of development.

There is a LOT more but that should be at least an indication that even suggesting the idea that evolution is false is ignorant, just like suggesting gravity is false.

Just stop with the ignorant rants or my head will explode! We should not have to teach people the basic facts of science! Take classes, use Google and learn the truth, you people are modern day flat-Earther's and it's embarrassing!

Coral Taxi, conserved DNA sequences is a meaningless argument that proves nothing other than that living organisms have similar components - much like cars trucks and motorcycles do, and they are designed machines.

And this is the kind of dumbass that represents the american people in congress. No wonder we're such a fu$%ed up nation !

Apologies, the term is "ontology recapitulates phylogeny" if anyone is interested in the theory. It has been proven to not be true as originally proposed but the subsequent studies draw compelling conclusions.

conserved DNA sequences is a meaningless argument that proves nothing other than that living organisms have similar components - much like cars trucks and motorcycles do, and they are designed machines

No. Just wrong. You can't possibly conclude that DNA is "designed" and in fact is proven to have evolved. If you are going to make comments on subjects you have no clue about you should do a little homework first.

@J in SanDiego

While I could argue a few points you make, there is no need as you preach pure untainted gospel in your final paragraph. That man represents all his constituents not just the ones who believe as he does. This is a perfect example of why we have a separation of church and state. That and if you have true faith it shouldnt matter what science says if it disagrees with a book written by men. When God shows himself in your life you will know it and you will see the flaws in religion.

To think science disproves religion proves you are neither a scientist...or religious.

NEWSFLASH: The 2012 arctic sea ice is still below the 2007 minimum. The antarctic record breaking large extent may be due to the antarctic glaciers letting more fresh water into the ocean in its summer season, and creating a thin but wide freeze in winter months. This idiot on the science committee could derail any attention away from needed remedies. The only thing the Republicans want to do in the arctic is make more money from oil and shipping; they don't see that stopping the jet stream and causing more world-wide drought will kill millions or billions of people; this needs real experts, or people who will listen to real experts NOW.

The argument here is not about evolution, but about a person who is imposing their beliefs in a science committee, where belief is supposed to be put aside in favor of experiment and proof. It also denies the First Amendment for him to be on that committee, much less its chair: the government shall not establish a religion. In context of him being on the science committee, that's what is happening: one particular religion is being established. I much prefer prayer in the schools to this: prayer might at least help students have the confidence to pass their tests, but a control freak imposing his dogmatic will on a committee of Congress has no purpose whatsoever except to help America and the world of research and oversight of world geological needs to fail.

P.S.: Don't let the neocon wing-nuts frame this issue. It isn't about evolution, it's about urgent saving the world. Republicans bully and frame issues and then lie, but it is important for everybody to state the positive reasons why we need science to help the world through global crisis NOW.

To think science disproves religion proves you are neither a scientist...or religious.

Of course science can't disprove religion, religion manifestly exists. Neither can science disprove god because science can't prove something pretend isn't real. Just like it can't prove Santa Clause is fake. What it CAN do is prove how things actually do work. Science CAN prove we evolved. Like it or not you did in fact evolve.

You can't deny evolution.

Ever see a dog? They didn't even exist until we humans evolved them.

Ever catch influenza? West Nile? Herpes? AIDS? MERSA? Or any of a thousand or more other pathogens that evolve as fast as we can combat them?

Do you realize that "drug-resistant" illness is caused by evolution of the bacteria?

Ever eat beef, chicken or any other domesticated animal "bred" for human consumption? You do understand the word "bred" means evolved?

Just open your eyes and you can see things evolving right in front of your face man.

No. Just wrong. You can't possibly conclude that DNA is "designed" and in fact is proven to have evolved. If you are going to make comments on subjects you have no clue about you should do a little homework first.

Give me something other than your jaw flapping in the wind and I'll show you how much I know.

Jon is giving an example of what I am talking about. It isn't about evolution.

It's about ARCTIC SEA ICE destroying the American Great Plains. Funny that the Great Plains votes against its own best interest, but that's part of this ignorant bait and switch.

gravity can be observed in action. a process that takes million to billions of years to occur cannot practically be observed in action so this is really a bad analogy.

This statement demonstrates your lack of understanding. Evolution can be seen in action right in front of your closed eyes. See above post...

C'mon man your comments aren't informed.

Go to a search engine, and look at TODAY's arctic sea ice. Folks, this is about

ARCTIC SEA ICE. Did I say this loud enough? ARCTIC SEA ICE. No, that isn't loud enough.

The utter destruction of the PLAINS and the SOUTH of the United States, plus Mongolia, and most probably the cause of World War III, because of the collapse of the jet stream. IS THAT LOUD ENOUGH?

Give me something other than your jaw flapping in the wind and I'll show you how much I know.

Perhaps cognitive dissonance is preventing you from thinking rationally? If you have ANY evidence of so-called "Intelligent Design" then present it. No, I didn't think so.

The reason you struggle so much is because you are trying to make the facts fit into your preconceived beliefs about the universe instead of looking at it objectively. When you do you will have that epiphany you may be looking for.

I don't know why poor Honey BooBoo got dragged into this. Poor kid...

apparently all you have are insults.

The utter destruction of the PLAINS and the SOUTH of the United States, plus Mongolia, and most probably the cause of World War III, because of the collapse of the jet stream. IS THAT LOUD ENOUGH?

Apparently the flat-Earth ilk are content driving us all over the cliff. They want the End Days or some such nonsense leading to the end of the world so they can get their virgins or meet Jesus or whatever crazy stuff they believe.

The sad truth is we are still fighting ignorance and superstition rather than the catastrophes of nature that we face.

I share your concern but I'm almost resigned to the fact that we cannot overcome religious fanaticism before it is too late.

>out of the woods Quite a few evangelical leaders have been members of the Democratic Party or supported liberal policies...

Most excellent post 'out of the woods'. Most posters seem to assume that ALL Republicans are Religious fundamentalists, and that ALL Christians are Republicans. Those assumptions are not always true, and your post was most excellent in pointing that out. :)

I believe that policies that support small business create employment, which is the key to a strong economy - BUT that doesn't automatically mean I think millionaires should pay $0 taxes. I believe that we shouldn't allow people to sneak into the country and live off social programs paid for by the rest of us - BUT that doesn't mean I'm bigoted or that I hate people from Mexico. I believe that unborn babies are alive and have a right to life, but that doesn't mean I hate women or that I believe in any Christian God. I believe that we shouldn't be borrowing money from China to pay for things that we can't afford, but that doesn't mean I hate Big Bird.

The fact is, we HAVE to listen to other people, and not assume that we know what's in their hearts because of their economic policy beliefs. Many people have 'conservative' fiscal opinions, but are 'liberal' in social opinions.

Somebody needs to do a study of the Republican brain to find out why these people are so damn crazy; It has to be genetic defect...... I guess that would go for the people that vote for them too.

Most posters seem to assume that ALL Republicans are Religious fundamentalists, and that ALL Christians are Republicans. Those assumptions are not always true, and your post was most excellent in pointing that out. :)

I think everyone knows there are a few fervent evangelical Democrats but it is obvious to everyone that a vast majority are Republicans. How many Republicans during the Republican presidential primary raised their hands when asked if they believe in evolution?

They wouldn't even ask such a silly question to Democrats because they would all say yes and snicker.

Polling data and exit interviews and party affiliation studies clearly show most hard-core religious people are Republicans. A few exceptions doesn't mean much.

I am not the one making the assertion that I can prove ID through science like you have said of evolution. The only ways to do so would be an encounter with the designer(s) or to thoroughly disprove evolution. If you want to believe that you went from hydrogen gas to condensed stars gone supernova to form heavier elements that somehow gained order and replication and then formed multicellular organisms that underwent mutation and selection until ultimately humans appeared, be my guest; but don't pretend that science has proven this beyond reasonable doubt.

Jon,

I am not the one making the assertion that I can prove ID through science like you have said of evolution.

I'm not trying to insult you friend, just trying to get you to just face the reality we live in.

If you can't prove your theory via science then it's not real it's human imagination.

Jon, just tell me why dogs exist? Clearly this intelligent designer didn't make them. How do they exist?

And don't tell me a chiwawa dog is a wolf.

I'd also like to hear your explanation as to where dairy cows came from? They never existed in the wild.

People talk in church what they feel appropriate and they should probably be afforded a sanctuary to talk their heart out in any way they feel right.

The really important part is that the doctors, who believe neither in heaven nor hell, do not repeat a mistake of cutting a heart out of living people for transplant, as they did on at least one occasion last year.

I mean this guys talks this way in church for his entire life. To target his congregation and his, in some ways, naive ways in this fation to score political point in polls is unfortunately something we should expect from our present time media / president wolf pack. They are basically poisoning the well from which we all drink. And the worse Mr. Obama looks in national polls the harder they will try.

What else can they do? I am sorry they feel they need to do such an poor form for themeselves and for our country. This is completely un - nesessary, but even after that, they are still nice people who just care, perhaps too much.

Coral Taxi -

A typo is still a misspelling. Check and edit you work prior to publishing. Failure to do so is not an excuse.

And so angry? Is that what God does for you? I would suggest you rethink your belief in lieu of the truth of God's real power.

I am not sure what you are getting at with the dog cow thing, but I am going to guess from your previous statement that humans evolved dogs that you are asserting that the fact that humans can breed out selective traits constitutes some proof for evolution. Breeding out traits from a heterogeneous pool of genes within species is not the same as going from one species to another. Sure you can breed a dog until you end up with something that looks totally different from what you started with, but push it too far and you end up with a dead dog. I would argue that you will end up with a fatal illness or sterility everytime before you break the species barrier. I think it was Behe who described a set of experiments by evolutionists trying to change one of the human hemoglobin genes into that of one of the primates (or vice versa). They couldn't do it in a way that preserved function at every step. If you want to believe in a gradual evolutionary process that crosses specie boundaries, you have to admit that you are facing some incredibly small odds of success. I would say impossible, but you would just tack on another billion years.

I would argue that you will end up with a fatal illness or sterility everytime before you break the species barrier.

You're almost there, you just need to stop doubting something right at your fingertips.

Sure, an isolated group could die out but it can also, over generations of course, become a separate species. You've already admitted evolution is real, since you outlined it in "selective breeding" which of course IS the same principle that evolution works on. It IS evolution.

You apparently just fail to grasp the significance of what happens during this process over millions and billions of years. You get all kinds of new species pop-up with changing environments, some die out, some survive and split into new species, etc. etc.

Like I said you can see evolution happening all around you.

It is easy to label this man an imbecile. But what is FAR MORE disturbing to me is the large number of imbeciles who had a choice, ...and still ELECTED this imbecile to represent them in Congress!

And there is a good chance those same imbeciles and a few million more imbeciles just like them are about to elect as our next president a man who not only dismisses science, but who believes that the charlatan "prophet" who founded his "church" found golden tablets from God, and translated the word of God using "seer stones" while peering face first into his top hat! And to top all that believes that when he dies he will get his own planet, and that Native American's skin color is because they are marked by God to distinguish them so that God's preferred race will not interbreed with them. Good grief!

Is it any wonder that the civilized and culturally advanced countries of the world look at America with a growing sense of bewilderment as they watch us plunge headlong back to the 18th century? We are becoming the laughing stock of the world, claiming our "American Exceptionalism" as we give a cold shoulder to science and education and simply dismiss anything which does not comport with our religious and political preconceived ideas as being "false" or "inspired by the devil."

I really like both arguments of Jon and Overlord. Solid. But there IS a force binding it all together. Unbiased intuition takes us places.

I saw the headline and thought - "Louie Gohmert?" (Could be any one of quite a few!) My next thought after trying to guess who said it was - "Having this zombie chair that Congressional Panel was no oversight - he was put there on purpose. OMFG!!"

Can you say pandering? These Republican thugs preach this nonsense as pious Christians and then propose legislation that flies in the face of every teaching of Jesus Christ. Love thy neighbor? Not if he's a Muslim or a black man! Blessed are the children? Not if he's a starving poor kid in need of a free lunch or food stamps. The meek shall inherit the Earth? By God, not if Romney and I have anything to say about it! Turn the other cheek? Wait till I undo my belt and pull down my pants.

They play on the stupidity of the ignorant. They play on the fanatics with treachery. They play on the racists with bigotry. They play on the poor and downtrodden with guilt. They play on the cowards with fear. They are the epitome of the Anti-Christ that the Bible so strongly warns to all of the faithful.

I'm not saying they are the Anti-Christ. I'm suggesting that all true Christians watch their every move as they are a preview of things to come for the faithful that believe in the Anti-Christ.

……evolution is from “pit of hell”……by any measure this is an interesting observation by Rep. Broun.

I have a friend, a doctor with 50 years of hands on experience with patients, gained both in hospitals as well as in private practice. Not so long ago she told me that at times when treating patients with severe medical conditions she thought that there was “something else at play” during patients’ recovery, something “out of this world’ she could not explain. She asked me if I believed in God and at the end of our discussion I couldn’t give her an answer.

Not so long ago, most people did not know what evolution was all about, some had never heard the word. Today we know better!

On many topics people throughout the world are split. For everyone who argues one way there is another who will argue the other way. Just like for the current topic.

Similarly, the “Big Bang” theory, to date, is based on our observations and interpretations of the behavior of the Universe. It’s a model of something that happened over 13 billion years ago. Our understanding of the Universe is in its infancy. There is no doubt in my mind that 50 or 100 years from now our understanding of it will be much more advanced than it is today, but whether it’s right or wrong, no one will ever know.

As for Rep. Broun, he will never change his rhetoric, he’s representing his constituency. That’s what they elected him for.

Noah's Ark, nuff said (just kidding)

There is no doubt that protein families and superfamilies aremonophyletic, that is, they derive from a common ancestor. In contrast,monophyly of protein folds, as opposed to foldsoriginating by convergence from unrelated ancestors, remains an issue of debate."

I'm still stuck back on how this has relevance to your side of the conversation. Actually I think you just supported the argument for evolution.

I wonder how much cheating Paul Broun did on his med school exams?

An IQ of 120 should be the minimum to hold public office. A lot of sitting Republicans would be ineligible.

Religion is the weaponization of faith. It was invented to control people. The bible was written to better control the Roman empire. More than 200 hundred years had passed since Jesus time before any non jewish derived part was written. It was written by men with a political agenda. Theocracy is the most dangerous form of government, partly because it make it easier to dehumanize those who espouse another religion.

But it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that's the reason as your congressman I hold the Holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I'll continue to do that."

The scary part is that this guy is a U.S. Congressman. With people like him in Congress, we really have no leg to stand on to criticize Muslim extremists who want to rule by Sharia law in the Middle East.

The Founding Fathers kept religion out of government with good reason. Unfortunately we are in an age of discord as more and more thinking people come to realize the falseness and divisiveness of religion while others cling to it like a frightened child to his blanket.

Humans stopped worshipping the sun a long time ago. This 'tent-revivalism' era will pass as well, but only if we have the courage, the intellect and the integrity to put truth above worshipping an imaginary being.

Well, what I derive from this article and from this particular thread, is that most of us not competent to argue or discuss the subject of evolution in depth, myself included, and that the emotions of people frequently cloud such discussions.

I would say that, rationally, evolution is the theory which best explains the diversity of life on this planet, its interrelatedness, and the fossil record of past species. This does mean the theory of evolution is perfect or can be absolutely proven. Does that mean I believe that the Earth was created in 6 days, or that [a] God destroyed all life on the planet with 40 days of rain, except for Noah and his family and 2 of every animal on Earth?

No more than I believe that my mother found me under a buttercup.

U.S. Rep. Paul Broun is, unquestionably, a loon, of the religious variety. No amount of scientific evidence will convince him otherwise than that the world was created a few thousand years ago, and that evolution is just a big scientific hoax perpetrated by Godless atheists and devil-worshipers. His mindset is a perfect example of emotion and delusional belief triumphing over rational thought. So, of course, the people of Georgia sent him to Washington D.C..

Thanks.

Coral Taxi, I went through and read your comments, even the collapsed comments. Your comments are amazing and I do not mean that in a good way.

Here are two different posts from earlier: 1) @ krazy; Who are you to tell me what to discuss? You do not know me. I have studied cosmology and quantum physics for years, I am actually simplifying things . That is what disproved evolution. I have had days of debates on evolution. My league is truth....

2) This is science not David, I have a background in truth, when did I say I had a background in science, with the exception of what I have studied on my own....

You really don't understand what you said, do you? You studied cosmology and quantum physics for years and yet you don't have a background in science? That makes absolutely no sense.

You also said you have a background in truth. So we are to believe that you NEVER lie? That no matter what the topic, you know ALL? Are we to believe you are GOD?

You claim the Bible can be a great guide for the lives of others yet you sit in judgment of others, referring to most of those in disagreement as athiests. You're so ready to believe about a Great Creator but dismiss anything contrary to that belief.

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps this "Great Creator" wanted us to learn as we evolved as humans? I may be wrong but I seriously doubt you've ever studied any of the truly old religions. You know, those religions that existed before Christianity, before Judaism. We now call them mythologies but back then people believed them as true religions. They worshipped several Gods, not just one. If you studied many of the oldest religions, you would see quite a number of parallels between those old religions and the Bible and other religious texts of the day. Think of it as the evolution of religion (which is exactly what it is).

Our laws are based on the Ten commandments. You obey them as everyone else or pay the price to society. Christian or not the Bible can be a great guide for your life.

CoralTaxi - I agree that a great deal of our legal code is influenced by the 10 Commandments. Thankfully, we are discarding the purely religion-based laws, regarding commercial activity on Sunday, blasphemy, etc.

But as to you second sentence, that the Bible can be a great guide to your life...

I cannot help remembering the biblical story of the sacking of Jericho, and how the Israelites, empowered by God's word, cheerfully slaughtered all of the people of that city, down to the smallest child, saving only the family of a turncoat prostitute. The story comes to mind whenever I drive by the homes in a nearby, wealthy neighborhood. I keep waiting for the angel of the lord to speak to me, saying that it is right that I should enter their homes, kill the inhabitants, and seize their property. So far no angel has appeared ...but who knows?

Then there is the story of Lot, who when his fellow citizens desired that strangers under his roof be rendered to them, that they might "know them", was willing to offer his own daughters instead.

The bible is full of such weird stories, tales which could only make one think that God, if he exists, is the worst kind of crazy. So yeah, I do believe that many of the 10 commandments are worth incorporating into one's life.

But the Bible?

Be serious.

Far be it from me to take anyone's religious crutch away. There are many people, even educated people, who have apparently not evolved beyond belief in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy. If their faith serves to make them better people, if it comforts them and inspires them to be loving and tolerant, fine.

But what I see most often in evangelicals is intolerance, bigotry, sanctimony, hatred and fear. Christians have either forgotten the words of Jesus or they have turned them against others. They use religion as an excuse to do evil. They have taken the bible and used it as a club to hurt homosexuals and anyone who does not believe precisely what they believe.

I would never choose to associate with such people. Evil and good live in all of us, but some people cannot see evil when they look in the mirror. Evidence of the hatred these people carry in their hearts can be clearly seen in some of the comments here, like the previous one.

Oh really, give me an example of one "new branch" formed . I am talking about evolution from apes to humans, not adaptation.

Hmmmm....CoralTaxi, how about lions and tigers, two closely related species, which can (and occasionally do) interbreed, although the resulting offspring is typically sterile. We may not be able to identify the "root" species, but the close genetic similarity clearly indicates such an ancestral breed of big cat existed.

One could also cite Darwin's study of the Galápagos finches.

The evidence is certainly there. Does it prove evolution beyond all possible doubt? No, but beyond all reasonable doubt? Absolutely.

Just like its No secret THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD rejects ALL religions except their own oppressive one....Why do you defend Muslims & mock Christians? hmmmmmm

I would accord them all the right to their delusional beliefs. But when Representatives from Georgia start trying to make laws based upon religion [AKA delusional fantasy], it disturbs me.

It also bothers me when some crack-brained, religious zealot in Iran attempts to control the free expression of ideas in this country.

But, I defend the rights of both groups to their beliefs. Just don't splash your ideology on me, please.

Love2troops,

Denial of reality is part of the fundamentalist ethos.

Yes, the Republican Party has become this radical and delusional. If only there were a political party that allows you to believe in God AND the world as it actually exists...

Oh, there is! It's called the Democratic Party.

Sounds like the congressman is hedging his bet. The future doesn't bode well for right wing lunatics in Congress as we will no longer stand for the partisan bickering that has paralyzed our government. Mr. Broun recognizes that preaching can also be very lucrative - particularly if you pander to those mindless idiots who subscribe to creationism. If Paul gets booted out of office, he has a backup plan - either way, he'll remain amongst the 1%.

Coral taxi our laws are not based on the bible. they were written to make a civilized society. If murder and theft weren't illegal no one would trust another person and things would decay into chaos. It is not illegal if you dont observe the sabbath, cheat on your spouse, have false gods. George Carlin put it best on coveting your neighbors goods.To paraphrase, we wouldnt have an economy without coveting your neighbors goods. your neighbor buys a new SUV, you like it so you go and buy one.

no, I would say that is an assumption. Just because homeobox sequences are the same does not lead to the inescapable conclusion that evolution is the only interpretation. Broaden your thinking and consider what a intelligent design would actually look like if it were true.

Jon - Why would intelligent design have created closely related species which can interbreed, but whose offspring is sterile. Lions and tigers are one such pair of species. Horses and donkeys are yet another. Intelligent design fails to explain the purpose of such an arrangement. But divergent evolution does.

People citing intelligent design as the alternative theory for life on this planet are just grasping at religious straws.

My religious beliefs have evolved over the years to agnosticism leaning towards atheism. However, it's not my place to judge other's religious beliefs. As far as I am concerned this guy's beliefs are no more crazy than the belief in a Christian, Jewish or Muslim God.

Frankly I wish I had that kind of faith, I am sure it can be quite comforting in trying times.

I love how people, people who are so evolved, can sit here and judge this guy when the truth is we don't know all the answers.

The big bang is the most unintellegent thing i have ever heard on this planet

That's right! It is also a lot of BS that the earth is round. These people are just a bunch of sinners that will burn in hell.

How many things have you ever heard off this planet?

I love how people, people who are so evolved, can sit here and judge this guy when the truth is we don't know all the answers.

There are plenty more out there like him, redhead. The problem I have with him is that he is a United States Congressman who wants to impose his personal religious beliefs on all of his constituents. We need rational, tolerant people in government, not Christian Taliban loons.

makes me wonder

The big bang is the most unintellegent thing i have ever heard on this planet

Einstein, is that you?

The problems are many are one sided its not that they can prove their theories or that GOD does or doesn't exist.. Many are terrified that there would be a GOD to judge you in the end so they prefer to disclaim it, many abuse the bible or GOD in ways it was not meant to be.There is nothing wrong with being neutral,eventually we may find that they are both one in the same.

God forgive this man and his evil ways and the political party that fosters this kind of trash. I pray to God that this would end and we would keep religion and Politics separate. Who voted for this nut?

I must be the Devil then!

• When are we going to get these idiots out of positions of responsibility???
• (and why do I think he's affiliated with the Tea party???)

Is there anyone from Brown's district here? if so could you tell me why people voted for him and if you did?

@piglizard420

Coral Taxi -

A typo is still a misspelling. Check and edit you work prior to publishing. Failure to do so is not an excuse.

And so angry? Is that what God does for you? I would suggest you rethink your belief in lieu of the truth of God's real power.

for real? did YOU proof read your own statement before posting? It sounds like you have more anger than this poster has shown in her own posts, please consider yourself not qualified to give advice you yourself do not follow.

This representative is proof the Taliban has invaded our government. He needs to be deported back to the Middle East.

I think because of what people have called education has ruined the thought process. If they can make so may people believe evolution or religious belief the absolute truth. Call it what it is indoctrination.

Someone does realize the power of "group thought" and keeping minds corralled to believe one thing: evolution pfft... religion too pfft think what you want.

When I read the headline I thought, this could be one of those holier-than-thou hypocrite republican.

I'm getting good at this!!! LOL!!!!

for real? did YOU proof read your own statement before posting?

I guess those who live by the pen also die by the pen.

Always "check and edit you work prior to publishing"!

Praise God he speaks the Truth. Praise God.

The 39th President of the United States of America, Jimmy Carter, was a fundamentalist and possibly more religious than Ronald Reagan.

Carter was more religious than Reagan. The democrats won't dare make fun of Carter though.

Can the media please talk about important issues?

Guess NBC doesn't want to talk about important issues like Obama's lies to the American people about the Libya terrorist attack or about the NAACP official threatening someone for not supporting Obama.

America is still land of the free and freedom of speech, right? Or are we slowly becoming a former Nazi Germany?

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/10/04/naacp-official-obama-campaign-staffer-threatened-me/#.UG7pvsHCPWg.twitter

Out of the woods, Reverend Warren and Billy Graham are not Democrats and never have been, Billy Graham and his son have both claimed the Democratic Party was controlled by satan, and Reverend Warren allowed McCain to know the questions in advance while keeping Obama in a sound proof room during the Saddleback Forum.

It is obvious that even though your type claim the 10 commandments are the law of God you truly don't believe it yourself, otherwise you wouldn't constantly break the one about not bearing false witness.

Religious extremists, no matter what their religion belong in a padded cell where they can do no harm to the world around them. Look in Michelle Bachmans eyes and tell me that woman is sane, if you can do that then you belong in the same padded room.

Evolution cannot
explain the “Cambrian explosion”

J:

Can we assume that since you made reference to the Cambrian explosion - which occurred over 500 million years ago - that you don't believe the earth is only 9000 years old?

Also, many of your conclusions are just wrong. Evolution does not try to explain concepts of abiogenesis or cosmology. For example, the big bang is not a theory proposed by evolution but rather cosmology. So are you trying to discredit all natural sciences? That alone discredits your arguments.

Also, you showed no evidence in your post that a creator exists who caused it all to happen.

I personally do not understand what all the fuss is about. We have two theories that can not be scientifically proved, so instead of fighting we should allow each to believe what they wish and respect them enough to let them. Sadly, instead we have to sides acting like petulant children trying to force the belief out of the other side instead. Maybe we are not so involved after all.

All of this science is destroying our planet and the collapse of our environment. The evil repugs don't care about our environment, nor do the democrat politicians, they just use the environment as a tool or weapon to leverage their objectives and line their pockets. Get rid of all of them!

VOTE GREEN! Roseanne for President!

Jo ann, Carter never tried to force his beliefs down the country's throat the way Republicans do. There is a huge difference between being religious and using your political power to force others to believe what you believe, especially when what you believe is insane as is the case with 99% of the republicans, they want to drag us back to the dark ages and completely ignore all the scientific advances that we have made over the last 500 years. I am a pretty mellow guy but I will not allow you wingnuts to destroy this country.

Love2troops, reported for advertising.

And nice fake name too. The only person who actually doesn't love certain troops seems to be you.

Why does everyone laugh at creationists? Because they are delusional morons who went to Liberty "University", they were "educated" by other morons using the Texas Board of "Education" text books that are filled with lies and fairytales.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eo5mdhmncw&feature=related

After reading a lot of these comments I now understand why America is a doomed country. As a Christian I am an independent and I will vote for those who best follows my faith, Obama is not one of them. I do not believe that a Christian should be affiliated with any political party as they all represent a single point of view, and I believe that as an independent you can choose the right course to follow without all the crap the liberal news tries to put in your brian. Also I find it refreshing to find apolitician with a backbone. Evolution and the big bang is about the dumbest things that can be taught a human being. If I were not a Christian I would prefer to believe that we are descendents from aliens than that stupid theory. Common sense would tell you that a explosion will end life, not create it. I especiality do will not believe I am come from apes or, all of a sudden after millions of years a piece of premortal slime decided to leave the water to transform into man, what nonsense. The biggest problen people have with Christianity is not the belief in God, but what happens after death that they do not want to know about.

Sure, an isolated group could die out but it can also, over generations of course, become a separate species. You've already admitted evolution is real, since you outlined it in "selective breeding" which of course IS the same principle that evolution works on. It IS evolution

In order for evolution to truly work, you are going to need a mechanism for generating new genetic information, and that is assuming that you can even get to the point where you have something to start with. The RNA hypothesis is a truly vague area of evolutionary science that asks that a lot be taken on blind faith. The biggest problem with evolution as I see it today is that no mechanism exists that would explain the generation of useful genetic information. I mean we have this whole field of medicine and science that describes what happens to cells when they start generating mutation driven genetic diversity - its called cancer and it is not so good for the whole survival of the fittest thing. There is a huge difference between generating the new genetic information that evolution requires to get from species to species and what I'll call micro-evolution that selects out variants from a pre-existing pool (life without adaption would be a poor design). This all goes back to my original argument that evolution theory has not established itself beyond reasonable doubt.

Jerry you have been indoctrinated well. Keep up the good work. /s

Adam and Eve= " The big bang"

Ok, one more time. Please pay attention:

To the guy who said “evolution is unproven. It’s just”a theory" (emphasis is my own):

You are absolutely right. It is a theory. But you have no idea what that means. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the word "theory" in common usage, which implies that something is unproven or speculative.

A scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment."

A scientific theory begins with a hypothesis, which at its inception is unsubstantiated. A theory arises through observation and experiment. If at any time, facts are revealed that disproves the theory, then the theory must be abandoned, or substantially altered to fit the facts, not the other way around, which is a method used by those who denounce evolution – bending facts to fit the theory. A scientist, by definition, must be willing to abandon a cherished theory if the facts obtained through observation and experiment proves the theory wrong. Again, this is a substantial difference between the scientific method and one that is ‘faith based’. No amount of facts or observations can alter the beliefs of one whose faith is ‘unshakable’. The two approaches are fundamentally opposite.

Over time theories are either improved or disproved, through more and more rigorous experiments and observations. Gravity is a theory. Yet we go about our daily lives with a high level of certainty that we can count on gravity working in every case, in every situation. It really isn’t controversial. The reason for this is that there has never been an observed occurrence that has disproven the theory of gravity. Understand that it only takes one occurrence to throw the any theory into the trash heap of previously disproven theories. Through out all of human history, and in every corner of the universe that we have looked we have never made an observation that puts the theory of gravity into question.

The same is true with evolution. This is important – there has never been an observable condition which DISPROVES the theory of evolution. There have been lots of opportunities. As the science of biology has advanced (along with other scientific disciplines), nothing has arisen that puts the theory in doubt. Unimaginable advancements in the study of DNA, molecular biology, etc, have only further substantiated the theory. Remember, it only takes one supportable observation that counters the theory to disprove it. This simply hasn’t happened.

So believe what you will. I have no qualm with those who would use faith to provide them with an explanation of how the universe works. But attempting to use ‘science’ to explain a faith-based conclusion (as Rep. Broun has done), cannot possibly work – by definition. I don’t know why anyone would even try.

Jerry we are closely aligned Philosophically in our thinking, not 100% but close. This congressman provides fodder for the non-believers and he is bad for christianity. Everyone automatically believes that we all think that way. Only a closed mind would state the earth is only 9000 years old. Science is not bad and has provided conclusive evidence to the contrary. Also the Bible does not say the earth was created in 6 days as we understand them. It does not reference a 24 hour day, and all of the Bible (although I believe in the truth of it) was written by men of an age before the intelligence we have today. Evolution is wrong on many fronts, no species has ever been found to be anything other than what it is. Monkeys are still monkeys and sharks are still sharks, they haven't evolved a twinkle. The only thing that has evolved in man is his intelligence and that was designed to be that way. Everything that is or ever was is still what it was designed to be and will always be just that.

Didn't this guy, (and his constituents) ever eat a chicken wing? One big bone connected to the shoulder, just like us... I can feel it.. two smaller bones between the big bone and a bunch of little bones... again like us... then some long thin bone sorta like our fingers. That chicken you're eating Rep. Braun is your very distant cousin, and on his side of the family some of his not so distant relatives could fly. That is evolution. Bon appétit.

for arguments sake i have a minor, 2 ba's and a masters. prior to attaining those degrees my faith in God was pretty much blind ritual handed down to me from my parents. however after spending a good share of my life learning, expanding my knowledge in many different directions i now truly do believe with all my heart in God, evolution and the big bang and all thanks to science.

it was science for me that proved without question that a higher power was at work and has been at work since before the "big bang." i believe in a supreme being, a supremely intelligent hand that started all this because of what i have learned unlike those that fear knowledge. those are the people that locked up leonardo for heretical views, burned innocents as witches and now, well we have mr. broun(spelling?). his/their God is not supreme, is limited to what humans knew from 2K years ago and it wasn't all that much. people back then knew not of extinct species such as dinosaurs, knew not of the universe, know not of atomic structures or even that places such as the americas existed. the intellectual elite back then compared to what we know today were virtually retarded for lack of a better term. had the bible been written today how very different it would be because of the minds and hands at work.

no big bang, no evolution, the earth but a few thousand years old, i find such limited thinking alone to be proof positive that he and those like him have no clue what God is or true faith means and how small humanity is in the "big" picture. all that said religion, faith, beliefs, they are all the most personal of choices and should be left to individuals to make or not, and those that prosthelytize like this man are repugnant and disgusting. he should go back to the dark cave he and his ilk crawled out of, but that is just my opinion.

Carter was more religious than Reagan. The democrats won't dare make fun of Carter though.

Of course not. Carter was very careful to not impose his views on anyone else. He actually believed in the separation of church and state. He was given the opportunity to team up with the radical right. He declined. That is why he is respected.

"Therefore something caused the Big Bang and I fully believe it was the Great Creator."

I think it was gravity? By the way where did this "Great Creator" come from? North Korea?

Religion and science do not have to conflict.

Religion and science do not conflict. All science does is point out that there is zero evidence for God. All that science says is that you do not have to believe in God. That's all.

The dispute arises because there are a bunch of people who can't take that sitting down. They are really offended at the idea that you don't have to believe in God and spew hatred at anyone who isn't willing to worship their god.

If you examine all the religious texts, the Bible, the Quran, the Bhavagad-Gita something interesting emerges. In these texts, there is a more evidence of an advanced alien civilization trying to guide various tribes in mankind than there is an an invisible all-seeing god. All of these texts are self-contradictory. Just ask any Muslim and he will happily recite the problems in the Bible for you, and ask any knowledgeable Christian, and he will eagerly explain the flaws in the Quran. Surely an all-knowing god would at least be able to be self-consistent. Not necessary if you image a bunch of bureacrats issuing edicts.

The strongest evidence lies in favor of the UFOlogists. I don't believe in any of it, but if I had to put money down, that's what I would be betting on.

These Christian Taliban types scare me. This is how the Taliban twisted the Muslim faith into what it is today.

@ Bigal: see Chris Mooney's book The Republican Brain:The Science of Why They Deny Science--and Reality (2012). I won't say it is definitive but does give some insight into the way some folks' wiring makes them believe and behave in certain ways regarding openness to empirical evidence opposed to Faith. Ideally, both should work together in rational people but...

Hey, Broun, you can believe whatever you want to believe -- however delusional it may be. Have fun in your fantasy. You're 100% wrong, but have fun with that.

....whether the Taliban were intellectually deficient, backward. The Afghan responded (and I paraphrase), "Of course not. They are among the finest minds of the 14th century."

Do you know what date it is today? I ask because it is important. According to the calendar the Afghan was using, today is 5/11/1433. That's what he meant by the "14th century."

I think it's the TeaReTards in the Republican party making the GOP look Crazy, this is a group of very sick people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It has been decades since this came up, but I do believe the original meaning of "hell" was a dark dusty hole. Or a grave. The only place I might burn is in a crematorium.

Ever wonder what kind of people refused to believe the world was round even when faced with overwhelming evidence?

They are the same as people that refuse to accept evolution today. They are stubbornly ignorant and only interested in believing religious dogma they have been indoctrinated to believe.

It proves, I suppose, that religious indoctrination is more powerful than truth.

Lot of unGodly people today? I'll bet you people (progressives, union members,commies, socialist, blacks) believe the 7.8 unemployment #s ? Now, that # is close to voter fraud!!!!!

Lets face it. People need to be more careful on camera when the statements that may be a good thing to say to a crowd of a certain type of people can be read or seen by the general public. Mitt found out the hard way and now this guy has shown again he is a right wing nut case. He is the clown that in th midst of trying to pull the country out of the greatest recession in history took the time to introduce a bill that would have declared this to be a religious based country! So this speech was something that should not surprise anyone. Now to the gist of the speech. Sorry to say to him that aall of the things he has professed to be things from hell are not given facts. All are theory's professed by scientists. As far as the big bang theory it is really believeable because we see evidence all around us that is true. At the same time since the bible does not go into just how the top entity created this thing we live in it can be the way it did it. Same goes for all the rest in his rant. You see God and scientists can exist on the same plane. In the end there will be proof of either the existence of a higher being or not. Matter is matter and from matter we get marvelous things as it evolves. The idea that we were created in 2000 years when we can look up at a star and knw the light we see left that star billions of years ago or cut into the side of a mountaind and find seashells telling us that mountain was long agao part of the ocean floor. If you want to believe in a higher authority feel free because this country is based on the fact of religious freedom which also says if you do not want a religion you are just as free as anyone who does not to have one. We run into trouble when either side decides their way is the only way and trys to impress upon the other their beliefs which in my opinion is totally un religious.

The big bang was the great creator of Romney's bird brain !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure that the University of Georgia and the Medical School of Georgia (Agusta) are very proud of this "educated nut-job" who lives on the edge of the Earth and has peered over the edge into the abyss!

While I am 180 degrees opposite from Broun in my views concerning science in general and evolution in particular, Fundamentalists are a significant minority in this country. They have the same right to express their views as any other minority, If "diversity" is a value we truly respect, instead of being restricted in its application to only certain politically correct groups, it must apply to all. The intellectual poverty demonstrated here by the hypocrites who would deny Fundamentalists a voice and role in public discourse and policy is truly disgusting. Censorship of the views of others is the hallmark of the intellectually incompetent.

Jo ann, Carter never tried to force his beliefs down the country's throat the way Republicans do.

deprogrammer, neither did Reagan but somehow the democrats make fun of him.

How is this man, (whom I've never heard of by the way), trying to force his religious beliefs on you? This man was speaking at a church banquet. This man was not speaking to you or to anyone else posting on this thread. A political watch group tapes him saying this on his own personal time. So what?

Obama was mentored by communist activists on his own personal time. What Obama learned from these activists are deeply engrained in his brain. I don't see the democrats complaining about this?

To semi-quote Joe Biden, what's the big F'n deal? You liberals are a desperate lot, aren't you? Sure, this guy is a nut, so what? He's no better than that left wing kook Michael Moore who thinks that corporations are inherently evil because according to him they "steal" other people's money. There are wackos all across the political spectrum.

But leave it to a bunch of whiny liberals and the liberal media to make a big stink about this and attempt to create a faux scandal or conspiracy or something and pin it as reflective of all Republicans. The entire lot of you people are really desperate, especially your beloved left wing liberal media. We've got over 20 million people out of WORK in this nation (the REAL unemployment rate known as the U-6 is WELL over 10%) and families are struggling with high energy and food prices cutting into their paychecks (and EVERYONE'S taxes are going up in January thanks to Democrats killing GOP tax cuts by letting them expire).

This is one of the most important election years in the history of America and all you lefties are worried about what THIS GUY thinks and says? And by the way, speaking of America, since when are we NOT free to say what we think and believe no matter HOW nutty it sounds? Yeah that's what I thought...the biggest haters of freedom of speech are liberals.

What is the response from the medical school that he received his degree from?

out of the woods-better known as, "Out of it" by many,

You sighted several Democratic Presidents that were Evangelicals. But you failed to mention is that they were not crazy like Rep. Brown! Sick minds have found a party that wants and loves them! It is called the republican't party!

The world is not flat. Science has proven the republicans wrong on that one.

@ imrightnotyou. Well said. :)

It is people like him (yes, I actually said that) who by way of the filter of their own culture make God small! For them the Godhead is reduced down to a simpleton's argument for the world. The person of God then becomes no more then male, Middle Age, White, Republican, from Georgia, Heterosexual, a gun lover, a member of a bowling team, fisherman, patriotic... entirely understandable and knowable! This I believe is not so much an insult to God (it has no need of being defended) but rather to us all and all she has created (it lessens us and makes us appear foolish) and is for this slack jawed yokel of a politician the ultimate presumption... to presume that he of all people has the capacity to know God!

Our Congressman makes Deep Time, the infinite, the majesty of creation, the math at the heart of all thing, the craftsmanship of natural laws, the vastness, the mystery, the poetry and the sheer awe of it all... compartmentalized, manageable, small minded, angry and a cudgel to beat ones fellow man into submission. He is truly very small and cannot abide a God one inch taller. He is a little, little, little man! He is a boy.

I LOVE GOD the creator of it all with his Angels the workers of his will. (think of Bill gates his idea was Microsoft but he doesn't do all the labor in making it happen but he does get All the credit.) I Like science because it is the institution of trying to make sense of it all and the magnificent beauty of the Universe.

Can God and science co-exist ? (there is a book written in the 80's i think by alan hayward may have mispelled his name.)
Anyways the answer is Yes.

There is a Huge Gap between Science and the Religious, and it mostly has to do with Age... 20 billion vs 6000. God is a God of few words and most overlook very quickly the very first verse of the Bible, and this is the verse that can mend this Gap. I like to call it God's Resume of why it is that he is who he is and why he has the power to do and say what he will do. He has a Plan.

Most just throw verse one in with the 6 days of creation, but there easily could be billions of years if that's the number between verse 1 and 2. the number of years is irrelevant to me. But verse 1 is for the Scientist out there struggle with the thought of GOD Almighty. There may be a hole in your Heart that you feel that needs to be filled..... heres the verse and the science.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

In the Beginning= The time when it all started. Science wants to call it the big bang. but it was the start.

Created= The unimaginable energy in which God used to do it.

Heaven= The space in which it has been done. Universe.

Earth= The chunk of Mass he is going to use for our home and planet.

how much time passes between v1 and 2? Who knows it doesn't say and it is unimportant for us to know. But when it came time for planet earth to come alive God said the earth was without form, and void: and darkness was upon the face of the deep. ?????

Did God ever use the earth before ? Possibly once, twice ... fifty times. It doesnt say and to God that information is not neccessary for us to need to know.

The earth was void and Dark? was the earth in a state of Ice-age when this creation began ... possibly
You need the light to start warming the earth first and melting an thawing out this void planet..... and the sun wouldnt be visible and until you have a atmosphere to see it.........................

GOD has a plan and as you see whats going with the health of the earth and in the middle-east prophecy is being fullfilled. There really isnt much time left. Read Luke 21:25 this verse pretty much says it all about the time we are in...

GOD bless and Peace

No wisdom here, just move along.

Anyone with even a basic knowledge of science can tell you that the fairest, logical view, you can have would be intelligent design. Darwin was not a scientist. Whether or not you believe in God, it's virtually ludicrous to assume that any of the processes in nature happened by random chance. The further you get into the study of scientific processes, the more intricate designs that you see. I honestly don't think anything exist without design. We think of something like dust carried by the wind as annoying, but did you know, the wind acts as a transport mechanism that carries sediment from one place to another. Did you know that waves strike the beach at angles, which also carries out a similar process? The earth has a design. The problem that exist in the world today is deception. Evolution is unsubstantiated and a theory. However, it would seem that people, who wish to do away with God, want to beg the question by assuming Evolution as a fact. I don't think his statement should be attacked simply because it's believed to be "Old fashioned"

Was Darwin half black like Obama?

Evolution is lie from hell? LOL! This idiot is living proof of evolution. So are you and I. Want proof? Take a good look in the mirror. You're not a clone of your mother or father. You may have your mother's eyes and your father's mouth. You're a mix, a blending of two different people into one of a new generation. Now think back to your parents being the same from your grandparents, etc.

darwinian evolution has a few problems:

1. irreducibly complex molecular systems, such as the bacterial flagelum, which could not have evolved by slight modifications. why? because if any of it's 4 major parts ( motor, protein chain, axel, and tail) were not in place, it would not work. it can only function with its core parts in place.

2. the existence of cellular information. there is more information in one of our cells than there is in an entire library. how does evolution explain the orgin of all this information. first of all, there is a fundemental gap between all the infromation stored in our dna and non-intelligent, non-informative dead matter. i cannot see any possible way you can just keep adding dead matter and one day come up with some form of information. maybe its possible, i just have trouble seeing how. second, natural selection can't explain the information because for natural selection to occur, you need reproduction, for reproduction to occur, you need cell division, and for cell division to occur, you need information.

3. you would think by now, we would be able to manipulate evolution in a lab. somehow though, we cannot get past certain boundaries. we can cause change within species, but dogs always stay dogs, bacteria always stays bacteria, and so forth.

4. suprisingly, the fossil record doesn't back it up. about 500 million years ago, the vast majority of new species were suddenly introduced in what was called the cambrian explosion.( for anyone wondering, i am an old earth creationist. i do not believe the earth was created in six literal days 6-12 thousand years ago, but in six phases 4 and a half billion years ago.) this goes against darwinian theory, and looks much more plausible with creation. we also have a lack of transitional fossils, but i suppose the darwinist could say they will show up in the future.

in light of all the evidence, evolution seems unlikely to me. i obviously believe in natural selection, and nobody would denie that the fittest survive. but notice darwin didn't name his book "change within species" but instead named it "orgin of species". this seems highly implausible to me.

Quick! MSNBC! Cherry-pick one Republican from Congress and extrapolate it to smear 100 million US citizens!

All of you right wing nuts. Keep on talking. Get out there on any public forum you can muster up and spout your thoughts and beliefs. We are all VERY interested. Talk about the gift that keeps on giving.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!!!!!

Fubo-I wish I could like your post a million times! Spot on! I think a lot of the contention comes from the fact that people outside the sciences don't appreciate that the word theory has a significantly different meaning in scientific language than in colloquial talk.

I have to agree with others who assert that belief in a God/God-like figure(s) and scientific theories like evolution and the big bang are not mutually exclusive. Plenty of space to accept both.

Why are these wack jobs politicians? I don't hold out much hope for this country!! Their education and open minds are nil!!

JHawke

The reason this is a "big deal" is because this guy is the Chair of the Congressional Science Committtee, and he states he doesn't believe in science.

See the conflict?

This guy may be right.I dont think he is but I have only been here for 75 years so I have to question things said. I have many different views on life and death, but I may be wrong. No religeous zealot has consented that I may be right.

Something as simple as Heaven and Hell brings a great deal of ambiguity from them. ie. Heaven is up, Hell is down. Depending where you are Hell is anywhere on the planet, even Hawaii. Pergatory is over populated because it is located between up and down, which is here.

I have heard the bible should not be taken literally. OK, so it can be interpreted by Religeous scholars. The OT by jews, the NT by Christians.That would indicate opinion. Do you believe in Brouns, opinion entirely? Remember, I said he could be right, but I dont think so. Maybe I am too cynical.

Actually I'm tired of people who are not in science spouting their views when it is obvious that their knowledge is no bigger than a high school education and what they see on PBS.

Anyone who would have studied comparative biology would know that evolution is not absolute. There are many things that scientists still have yet to explain. The problem is when people first hear about a new thing in evolution, it makes the newspapers. What you don't hear is that two or three months later, scientists will say in a scientific journal that they were wrong.

Man's so called wisdom in thinking he knows all that there is to be known has always amazed me. True wisdom is gained from what man has experienced in life and it truly come from God.. There is nothing in this life that man can say for a certainty, unless he has seen, or experienced directly or indirectly that which pertains to his statements, beliefs, or faith. In other words, for man to say, "I know God does not exist," just because he personally has not experienced a life changing event is nothing less than pure ignorance.
Nothing happens that God is not aware of... He gives man free will to choose for a season and than He will work His miracles in trying to redirect man's steps.... He allowed America to elect and the most unrighteous president in America's history because the vast majority is unrighteous for supporting the abortion and gay rights agendas; and the worse abomination of all is man's rejection of Christ.
One revelation from God is worth far more than the knowledge gained from all the books in the world written by men who have no understanding or comprehension of the absolute truth of God's WORD.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Prov. 1:7

Why do I have this feeling that he also thinks, like Todd Akin, that women have this 'magic spermicide' that will kick in if she is really "legitimately" raped?

This type of nonsense is not productive for the nation as a whole. Now, whether or not one chooses to personally embrace certain aspects of science is certainly an individual prerogative and a matter of free will. However, to place labels such as "evil" and "hell" upon any belief that does not agree with your accepted views is divisive, mean-spirited and creates a negative impact on our communities. Free will gives you the opportunity to make your own decisions based on your personal perspective, background, education and any evidence that has been placed before you. Condemnation of those who come to dissimilar conclusions is all too common and, frankly, shows a lack of character and more than a dash of an egocentric personality type. Sadly, although this particular example is fairly extreme, there is far, far too much of this going on. Simply because someone has a different opinion than you, well, that does not make them evil or flawed; it merely means they have a different opinion.

Remember, if you vote Republican, you are voting to hand the science committee over to anti-science extremists like this guy and like Todd Akin.

If you care about science at all, you simply cannot vote Republican until the party clears these people out of its ranks and stops letting their superstitious nonsense dictate their policies.

I think the real issue there is he is the chairman of the science committee and he is denying what is considered to be accepted in the scientific community, and he is basing that on a hell that has absolutely no evidence of its existence, this my friends is why 94% of scientists consider themselves liberals.

By the way naming evangelical democrats that believe in fairy tales doesn't make a case in support of a republican. It just means both parties have their crazies.

Now I don't have a problem with whatever delusion people choose to believe, what I have a problem with is its use to send us back to the dark ages where science was considered blasphemy. There is nothing logical or productive about denying science or what it has done for us, including taking our life expectancy from 40 to the eighties and given us a much easier life.

This isn't an issue of party, its an issue of theocrats attempting to exert authority where it is unconstitutional to do so.

Look, J in San Diego and Coral Taxi and this lunatic in Congress, here is evolution. Right in front of your face, staring you hard in the eye.

Take your cell phone and place it next to your cordless telephone and both beside your corded telephone which you should place beside your dial analog phone. Take your abacus and put it next to your calculator which should be next to your computer which should be in front of your TV and your old typewriter. Additionally, place your Pong game beside your Intellivision and then your Atari, your NES, your Sega Master Drive, your Genesis, your SNES, your Game Cube, your Dreamcast, your PS1, 2, and 3, and finally your Xbox.

Take your smartphone and take a picture of all this. THIS is evolution. HUMAN evolution. These devices did not simply manifest, did not simply come into being. WE invented them, one by one, one after the other. Even as you read this, you are on a computer or you are on an iPad which came after, on a smartphone, or a laptop. You are not using a carrier pigeon, smoke signals, or papyrus. Have you used a splintered bone lately to kill your dinner, thrown a spear at a fish, or fired a bow at a deer, used a rifle to nab a rabbit, or did you just go to the supermarket and buy your lunch? Did you have to cook it or put it in the microwave and just heat it up? Did you use clams, hides, trade a service, use cash, or swipe a credit card to acquire these goods from the supermarket?

If you cannot see the fact of evolution before your very eyes by observing how our own species has evolved over time (rapidly so in the last 40 years), then yes, you are a monkey. A trained monkey that can copy and paste and repeat after me, but a monkey nonetheless. We're not growing wings or feathers or tails or extra heads; our species evolves by adapting the environment to our desires because sentient species do that. We aren't as tied to our environment as most critters on our world and we can go so far as to leave it due to our aptitude with reshaping the environment to what we want. In other words, we take steel from the earth and make a glider, an airplane, a helicopter, a space shuttle, a space station... there it is again. Do we do this individually? Of course not! That would be silly as saying that a fish becomes a turtle becomes a cat becomes a monkey becomes a human, yet that is the basic and very erroneous view of evolution most people have. And all this talk of folding amino acids and biologies - determining the mutation and flow of a genetic structure is something most people don't and won't understand because those who study it have very little imagination. They're looking for facts and for new discoveries to fall within the exact boundaries of the facts they establish. They don't consider that, like nature proves time and time again, weird things happen that are still facts but cannot be put in a convenient box. Duck-billed platypus is a great example of this. So is the fact that coelafish still exist despite being positively ancient compared to their descendants we call "Trout" and "Bass". How about them starfish and their descendants called "Octopus" and "Squid" and "Jellyfish"? Oh, but we can't trace the exact lineage in an exact manner so it cannot be possible! Right? Wrong. Seeking the direct amino chain identifiers requires having the entire species to examine every individual to find the mutators. We can do this in labradoodles because we created that species through carefully controlled breeding, the same as we did black and white cows, extra fluffy sheep, and brown crickets.

Pay attention to the world around you, kiddos. It's right in front of your eyes and it's unbelievably foolish to rely on God and Science to explain it. It is and it happens and that's the way things are. You don't have to know why or how. It's great for curiousity's sake to pursue such things, but until we stop trying to explain things based on a limited understanding, we'll not get very far. Scientists are very smart people, but also very linear people. Only a handful possess the ability to consider other possibilities and pursue them logically, and those are the ones that invent the things we have that advance our species as a whole. You won't find it in brainless politicians and you won't find it in community organizers and you won't find it in union bosses nor lawyers. You find it only in those who can see the big picture and can study each part to see where it fits, why it fits, how it fits. So, nice try J and Coral, but please stop spamming for attention. You're both spewing nonsense to look smart.

A very popular republican mental delicacy, especially in the south. It's called sucking "sh^t on a stick".

Mister, no one that denies evolution and science can look intelligent, that just isn't possible. Anyone who goes around shouting a God that has zero evidence of existence over that is doomed to look like an idiot, the Christians that have accepted and found a way to accept both are the only ones that can be deemed both.

Someone mentioned William Jennings Bryant, he is most famous for the scopes monkey trial where they tried to put someone in jail for teaching evolution. Clarence Darrow very adeptly defeated Bryant on his insane claims by just saying "in the beginning God create the heavens and earth, what is to say that a day meant 24 hours...."

i think the real issue there is he is the chairman of the science committee and he is denying what is considered to be accepted in the scientific community, and he is basing that on a hell that has absolutely no evidence of its existence, this my friends is why 94% of scientists consider themselves liberals.

Jan: I think you are wrong in that respect. Does this person not have all the qualifications known to do his job? If so, it is not for you to decide what you think is best. He is merely stating his opinion. Scientists base their theories on evidence, and in my opinion, this man has still not seen anything that would remove his faith in God.

You say that 94% of scientists believe this? Well at one point in time, 94% of scientists also believed that the world was flat. Yes, scientists. They had no way of proving or disproving this until gallileo. It was even noted that Chinese astronomers thought the world was flat.

Gene's don't lie, but at the end of the day , seems like a higher power sure did have some fun , look at our friend the platypus.

God is Jesus's daddy, silly.

Everybody knows that.

Unhappy, if they said anything different the Catholic church had them killed, it was called the dark ages for a reason.

Galileo said "the church tells me that the world is flat, yet I look at the moon and see the shadow and I know differently. I have more faith in the shadow on the moon than I do in the church."

Take your Pat Robertson, Ann Coulter revisionist crap elsewhere unhappy. If there is unexplained its only because science hasn't found a way to prove it, but in time they will.

And anyone who denies accepted science and tells me that its from the pits of a hell that has NO evidence to its existence is in my opinion disqualifying themselves from making the decisions for the scientific community.

@The Overlord "No. Just wrong. You can't possibly conclude that DNA is "designed" and in fact is proven to have evolved. If you are going to make comments on subjects you have no clue about you should do a little homework first."

What makes up or comprises each piece of DNA? Would those be molecules? What makes up or comprises molecules again? Would those be atoms? What makes up or comprises atoms? That is up for debate atm, but you get the idea. Are these not all made with the same stuff, pieces parts?

Who writes computer viruses? Can they not evolve, mate with each other, and produce offspring due to interacting with each other on a host computer? Yes they can, much like many HIGH order systems can. What proof do you have that electrons evolved or atoms for that matter? You assume that the parts that make up DNA are not engineered, maybe you should do some homework on something outside an area of your expertise so that you may see a bigger picture.

@Interested Observer "I can prove or disprove anything - including gravity." I accept and will wait for you to disprove gravity. What sub-set of data can you find that does not include gravity or its effects while disproving it at the same time? Gravity is a fact of life that existed before we EVER did, you CANNOT DISPROVE IT.

How about you come up with your own theory on gravity that ACTUALLY works? One that fixes quantum mechanics so that gravity may be included so that we can finally have one "Grand Unified Theory of Everything"? One that still agrees with the math too and has still some bases in our reality/science? How about you disprove my theory since it is so easy? While you are at please explain to me what all the other mysterious forces are and how they operate or do what they do. What makes them do what they do? You know the ones like the strong nuclear force, the weak nuclear force, Van der Waals force, Casimir effect, etc. that all do the same thing as gravity just at different scales.

There are lots of pieces parts until we actually get to something large enough or complicated enough to run on its own and to have, or to posses the ability to evolve that many people forget about or simply do not know about.

About the actual article do not forget all the people who support this man's views. It is not just him. A teacher's job is never done :).

In related news, my neighbor raked his leaves this morning.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Are you people kidding me?

Almost 2,500 comments for THIS?

We have TENS OF TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS of debt, TENS OF MILLIONS of good American people out of work and homeless, a corrupt government that can't get anything accomplished and you're all mentally masturbating all over each other about this buffoons comments?

You all need a hobby or a pet.

No wonder our great Republic is collapsing around us.

Jim no doubt there is more important issues, but just because in the whole scheme of things this is minor doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

I'm a little late to the discussion, but what about a third possibility?

What if "god" isn't the divine being wearing the white robe who listens to prayers, but an intelligent species from another planet who came here and made a few DNA changes with what was already here, and created "man"?

StandUpJokeOff, I am deeply perplexed as to why your post was collapsed. It does not matter whether I agree with you or not, you post was well written and abusive. This "community" is wrong to collapse comments. I guess they don't believe in the Fist Ammendment. I know by law they have a right to collapse comments, but a news organization duing it is worse than the government dsoing it.

Joy, I guess I missed something about the Holocaust, it wasn't a religious thing?? Hmm, I guess you agree with the congressman. But really, Judiasim is a religion, you can find it in your bible, and the last time I checked the facists put jews in the camps, so how is that not a religious based action. I don't know, in some ways I have to agree with JimSpence we sure are wasting time on an idiotic subject here. Theiworld has been fighting these religious wars for at least 2000 years so I am sure it will continue while we are all in disbelief for another 2000 or until we want to actually get on with our wonderful place in the Universe.

It was genocide swallow but in a way she is right, but probably not for the reasons she thinks. Hitler was paranoid and afraid of the Jews, he wanted a perfect Aryan nation and the Jews always did well, Hitler was Catholic but his motives were less religious based in my opinion than some of his commanders.

There is only one reason we have lived nearly 250 years in peace, we have allowed people to worship as they see fit. As my devout Christian mother would say the day we allow the bible to rule the government will be the beginning of the end of this nation.

There is so much right wing revisionist history out here it is disgusting. Ann Coulter, Pat Roberts and their ilk, are nothing but propaganda machines and whoring out their revisions for a buck. They defy if we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat the mistakes.

Jan-21270

Give me a break.

90% of these comments are personal, vitriolic, nonsense about another persons beliefs.

Of course because he's a Republican the Liberal "intelligentsia" is out with their Liberal Arts degrees to insult and demean him. Their vast knowledge of the origin of the universe, life and morality can never be argued because of course it has to be fact. I don't care what his beliefs about religion are as long as none of it affects his job in government. So unless their are apppropriations for evolution, the Big Bang or other typically private funded issues, I don't care.

If anything, there should be more outrage that Barrack Hussein sat through 20 years of Rev. Jeremiah's church and listened to "Goddamn America"! But of course this never was or is an issue, is it?

Just read the first 10 comments and you'll see how ridiculous these arguments are.

Of course none here will have the balls to call his office on Monday to voice your concerns. You'll all just sit here and spew your opinionated nonsense and think it really matters.

BTW, here's a link to find his contact information if you really want to take a position.

http://www.contactingthecongress.org/cgi-bin/newmemberbio.cgi?lang=&member=GA10&site=ctc2011&address=&city=&state=GA&zipcode=&plusfour=

I bet none of you will.

Watchman, My fist question is why do you put a gender on god? You say god gave birth to eveything"She" might be more in line with "Created in gods image"

2. William Buckley had a symposium on PBS where the only question was,"What is truth?' The participants were highly regarded scholars from 5 diverse cultures. There was no similarity in answers on a large variety of subjects that included faith, mores and beliefs.

3 Mans wisdom lays in his continued search for wisdom. To say The Origin of Species or The Bible is the answer to everything means mans search is over.

4 To say anything does not exist is impossible. Especially our concept of god.

5 The words you are quoting are mens words, maybe inspired by a higher deity, but all the same, you are reading are mens words. Does any woman have anything to say in your words of absolute truth or has 50% of the worlds population been considered not smart enough? See Art 1.

Jim, give me a break. You are taking his side simply because he agrees with your political ideology not because of merit to his claims. I have written members of congress before, don't think I haven't. Not all republicans are using their religious beliefs in their jobs, or to campaign on it.

I have said that there are rational Christians who have learned to correlate science with their beliefs.

I am a nurse and I will tell you my experience with an evangelical doctor one night, when a homeless person was in critical condition and needed immediate treatment the doctor refused to do it and said it was in Gods hands. There was things we could have done to correct his metabolic imbalance but instead he chose to let him die, and no doctor has the right to play God and that is what this congressman is doing. He doesn't belong on the science committee if he doesn't believe in it.

I did point out that just because there is liberal crazy doesn't mean that I find the conservative crazy palatable. You are excusing your parties crazy by pointing out the others, that isn't an excuse or a valid claim. If you can't support what he is saying based on its merits, you have lost.

To all who say we have bigger fish to fry: Understand this in its proper perspective.This bozo, todd akin and the guy who skinny dipped in the sea of Galilee are congressmen who are running(?) this country. God help us. I am sure there are others.

"deprogrammer, neither did Reagan but somehow the democrats make fun of him."

First off Jo ann, why are you talking Reagan? he was president 30 years ago when the Republican party was still somewhat sane. Reagan would be considered a tree hugging liberal by todays Republican party, BUT he laid the groundwork for the wingnut take over of our government. Reagan appointees were the original "wrecking crew", he filled his cabinet with ultra wingnuts like James Watt, The Secretary of the Interior who said "We do not need to concern ourselves with saving the environment, the second coming is at hand.". It was these kind of mental midgets that in positions of governmental authrortity who put us in the mess we are in today.

Michelle Bachman has a degree in "Biblical law" from Pat Robertsons Regent Universtiy. What the hell is "biblical law" and how is that an accredited degree? Take your unruly children to the town square and have them stoned to death?

George W. Bush brought in the next major wrecking crew, wingnuts from Regent and Liberty "colleges" who knew nothing about the departments they were placed in and that was the idea, put morons in charge of the government then say "see I told you government doesn't work". Putting this idiot in charge of the science committee is as insane as putting Bachman in charge of the Attorney generals office.

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isa. 40:22

That was written 1500 years before scientific theory proved the world was round!

How did the "medieval" prophets have such knowledge?

Science cannot prove there is no God, because one cannot logically prove a negative!

This thread is filled with a lot of people who think they have superior knowledge, but have shown they are good a recapitulating what they've read or heard.

Information is not knowledge - Albert Einstein

Biased opinions are nothing more!

Scientific genius rests on the observable, and cannot/should not transgress into the realm of philosophical reasoning.

When one crosses the boundary from the observable into the unobservable, they have crossed from the empirical to epistemology.

One rests with inductive, while the other with deductive reasoning!

Philosophers and scientists have wrestled their shortcomings for thousands of years, but intellectual stagnation is the result of a natural scientific community they concludes they have achieved all the answers.

There is indeed a difference between "Wisdom" and "Knowledge" !

Tomorrow is Preach Politics from the Pulpit Day - and I hope each and every one of them loses their tax exempt status.

You say god gave birth to eveything"She" might be more in line with "Created in gods image"

Btw, the real quote is:

Genesis 1:26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them
have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (My emphasis)

According to the bible, god wasn't alone.

Jan:

I hope you reported this so called doctor. He should have lost his license to practice medicine and at least been charged with manslaughter.

ot edge

spot on on number three. Unfortunately it requires curiousity and imagination; qualities strongly discouraged by any clergy that I know of. I have met some deeply religious thinkers who could not identify with any church anyone ever heard of. Unfortunately, we are populated by people who have been brought up to believe what they are told, especially from the pulpit, and were scourged for backsliding.Imaginary sins are the best kind as they require imaginary cures.

JIM Spence, But they should be vitriolic as the representative spouted his words to Congress not in private.

Unhappy

To Jan

does this person not have all the qualifications known to do his job? If so. It is not for you to decide what you think is best

Really Mr. unhappy...why isn't it her job to express her own beliefs and comments. I realize you are a highly educated "engineer" last week and now a scientist also with extensive studies in comparative Biology, and you certainly have no problems commenting on your beliefs, yet no one else is allowed to. Strange.

What's even stranger is that you'd defend the theory of "scientific proof". Well, there is no scientific proof of God, no scientific proof of hell. And being a man such as yourself who is highly educated as an Engineer, you would most certainly have studied and know what radiometric age dating of meteorite materials is. As well as measurements of lead in uranium-rich materials which in sampling show evidence of being in excess of a billion years old.

And lets talk about this man, Rep. Paul Broun, M.D. He spouts his christian beliefs and the absolute creedance of those beliefs, yet this man obviously does not believe in the Christian sanctity of Marriage, as he has been divorced three times and is now married to wife #4, he lied in 2007 to the Office of Congressional Ethics regarding the sources and terms of campaign loans and how an extra $30,000 got into his private bank account. His extensive medical practice is a House Calls only based Medical Practice in which he not even an active member in the AMA and CREW (Citizens for Responsible and Ethics in Washington listed him as the most corrupt member of Congress.

"The lunatic is on the grass...Got to keep the loonies on the path"- from "Brain Damage" by Pink Floyd.

I think it is a sad time in America when the vast majority of Americans have forgotten the original principals of the foundation of our Country. You see, I love our Country. America was founded on Religious Freedom. One of our nations most treasured beliefs is based categorically upon separation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson specified it clearly in the First Amendment of the U. S. Constitution.

But now, politics is religion. Republicans thinking they are the only true Christians who believe in God and Democrats are called "Libby's" who don't. Democrats calling Republicans "conservative nut jobs" and assuming they ALL BELIEVE IN GOD and GUNS. The reality is that most Republicans have propably never stepped foot into a church and the reality is that most Democrats attend church regularly and live a full-filling Christian life with true absolute Christian core beliefs. And the REAL REALITY is that people in both parties are Christians, believe in God, live true and honest lives and do share one absolute thing in common with each other - we are all Americans.

Let's stop defining political parties with religious beliefs. Let's define political parties with fundamental differences in a difference of political beliefs and leave religion out of our politics. I don't care if my Republican Rep. Dana Rohrbacher is a Christian, I only care that he does the job in Washington for my district which I gave him my vote to do, without influence of his religious beliefs. I vote Republican for my Dist Rep in OC, and Democrat for my State Senator. My votes are based on what JOB PERFORMANCE the candidate does or is capable of doing. But when politicians mix their religion into their political agenda, I believe they do the American people a great injustice. And when we, as Americans buy into that agenda, we all loose.

oops, rob is getting too many vote ups. Time to collapse the thread. Like it will make any difference.

Coral Taxi... If evolution is just a theory, religion is just an opinion. And going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." "Anger dwells only in the bosom of fools." Albert Einstein

No wonder "Uncle Al" was one of my favorite physicists, theorists, and philosophers.

Robert in Oregon... As Menken noted: "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

branox... Oh, nevermind.

ED... A lot of sitting politicians would be ineligible.

Debora... "Praise God he speaks the Truth. Praise God." Has it occured to you that she may be black?

What happened to separation of church and state?

The First Amendment of the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" .... and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

I was taught this meant it is okay to have your own religious beliefs, and to practice them, but if your an elected official, keep them to yourself!

Vote the goofballs out! Akin and this guy for sure! Even if you are Republican, these sorts are an embarrassment. He could be a preacher but should not be a congressman.

The only reason this is a political issue is because Mr. Broun is a Republican. If he were a Liberal, there would be very few comments. He has a right to his opinions whether he is a M.D. or scientist, or both. The only scientist I ever actually met worked in the oncology dept. of a large hospital and had a problem with alcohol. I do not see this gentleman as a "nut" case. We all have a right to our own opinion and free speech.

You people who are so sure there is no God need to read some of the Life After Death books in your local library. There was one doctor (an orthopedic surgeon) who had a life after death, or near death experience. She was actually dead for at least 11 minutes. What happened to her had a big impact on what she had previously thought about life. This was in a Guidepost several months back. Some things are unexplainable, even by science.

You know the funny thing is that you don't have to believe in evolution to be a good doctor or scientist. Discovering a cure for a human disease or describing a molecular mechanism is not dependent on your belief in the origins of humanity.

WHY, oh, why is there no democratic challenger to this idiot? That scares me almost as much as his beliefs do.

Love the way you guys twist my words around, and even quote block things I never said.lol. I am not angry, my perspectives give atheistS pause about what they truly do not believe. This irritates them to no end, and there were no good arguments nor any of my questions answered on evolution, (eg Why did evolution stop?) when I called people out on what they said.eg "formed new branches"lo this got voted way up, but was never backed up, or that I said the ten commandments were the basis of our constitution.lol I never said that yet many seem to agree that I did.Just 2 examples.

Most take my words out of context in their effort to attack me. I made one typo with an n instead of an m and was attacked heavily for it, but my retort to it was much heavier which resulted in my first delete(I deserved it)Iinstead of answering to my points, they attack me with one liners.

Evolution is theory, this is fact. The ten commandments are our basic laws this is fact. One man spews some fire and brimnstone,and all the athiestS come out of the woodwork to rail on him(He did ask for it). Colllapsing my opinions shows how hypocritical the haters are.

Coral Taxi the one atheistS love to hate.lol

Coral taxi our laws are not based on the bible

You see here is a prime one I just found. I simply stated the basic laws we live by are the ten commandments, do not steal, do not murder, do not cheat on your spouse, respect your neighbor . They take this statement and twist it then write a diatribe on it.lol I am not as ignorant to say our laws are based on the bible, just these basic moral premises laid down in the bible.

But yet if it is against me it must be true to the atheistS.lol

And so angry? Is that what God does for you? I would suggest you rethink your belief in lieu of the truth of God's real power.

This was put in quote blocks under my words in quote blocks, like I said it.lol I am not angry? Just because I give different perspective on your non beleifs does not make me angry.The problem you guys have is that they hard to argue with, you just have one line zingers to get yourselves voted up. I am not an angry person, just do not put with bull from atheistS.

model railroad man

He is just another religious fanatic idiot!!

==================

No, unfortunately, he is not, for if he is running unopposed as reported in another article, then he will soon join a politically and intellectually constipated US Congress, yet another mouth breather to deflect attention from the real issues plaguing this country, which have nothing to do with God or the frigg'n bible!

@LoryPyrinc - "......the recent trend is that all land animals evolved from fish. That would include apes and humans."'

Do not forget that the recent trend is that all sea-life evolved from land animals....It is crazy. I have never understood why evolution would pull a reverse like this. Land animals evolved from fish and fish and other sea-life evolved from land animals......It is honestly believed.

Just for the record, I didn't vote to collapse anyone's comments. I don't use that unless someone is really offensive and then my own comment was collapsed. The best you can do is nitpick about the choice of words because I didn't cut and paste your exact words, regardless of the interpretation which was essentially correct. Whatever....

One could just as easily say our laws are based on several other religions from throughout history and the statement still be true. You only seem to want to point to it in such a way that highlights Christianity over any other religion. I just find it wrong to push your religion/beliefs on others. I do see a sort of sick value in what you profess to having been doing here, just to get a rise out of athiests/liberals for your own enjoyment. Guess that is your right, but don't expect others to give you much respect.

One could just as easily say our laws are based on several other religions from throughout history

Umm no you can't

You only seem to want to point to it in such a way that highlights Christianity over any other religion. I just find it wrong to push your religion/beliefs on others

I do not push anything on anybody, I push the truth, and obviously by collapsing all my post they can not handle the truth. I am pointing out Christian or not that we live by these ten commandments. period

Guess that is your right, but don't expect others to give you much respect.

I am not here for respect, I am here to stop atheistS from getting away with wrongly classifying others in ways that they are guilty of themselves, they make this evident by collapsing mine and others opinions.

Out of the woods-Quite a few evangelical leaders have been members of the Democratic Party or supported liberal policies. Among these leaders are Jimmy Carter, Billy Graham, William Jennings Bryan, and Rick Warren....

Thank you "out of the woods" for your great post.I only re-posted a small section,because of length.But I urge all to read it above. Sometimes I forget,how in the past,and sometimes not even that far in the past,many Christians actually believed and followed Christ's teaching.And were not the religious zealots so many are today.I wonder how many of today's right wing Republicans, "so-called Christians",could in faith ask themselves as you wrote Jimmy Carter asked himself,“If you were arrested for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?”. You can bet the Congressman in the video would fail that test. But on that subject. How telling is it that today's Republican Party leadership would appoint someone of those views to chair the House "Science" Committee's panel on investigations and oversight. You can't make this stuff up with that party,they are that bad.

Gerri-367148

The only reason this is a political issue is because Mr. Broun is a Republican. If he were a Liberal, there would be very few comments. He has a right to his opinions whether he is a M.D. or scientist, or both. The only scientist I ever actually met worked in the oncology dept. of a large hospital and had a problem with alcohol. I do not see this gentleman as a "nut" case. We all have a right to our own opinion and free speech.

You people who are so sure there is no God need to read some of the Life After Death books in your local library. There was one doctor (an orthopedic surgeon) who had a life after death, or near death experience. She was actually dead for at least 11 minutes. What happened to her had a big impact on what she had previously thought about life. This was in a Guidepost several months back. Some things are unexplainable, even by science.

Braun is criticized because his beliefs are medieval, not because he is a Republican. Your oncologist having a problem with alcohol has nothing whatever to do with this discussion and does not promote your argument. Your use of that example only demonstrates that you have a problem thinking rationally.

Belief in God and belief in a literal (fundamentalist) interpretation of the Bible are very different things. Millions of American Christians understand that the Earth is more than 4.5 billions years old and that life began on Earth nearly 3 billion years ago. The majority of Christians do not really believe that those men whose story was told in Genesis were hundreds of years old and were fathering children (often with multiple wives, by the way) when they were far past the age that any modern man has lived.

You know nothing about the author of Genesis. You don't know his name, background, education or how he knew what he wrote. You choose to believe, however, that what he wrote is "the word of God," Why? Because you were told BY MEN that the Bible is the literal word of God. It appears that your faith in God is based on a leap of faith in the men who decided that every word of the Bible is literally true, that none is parable, none is exaggerated, that none is the work of men who just refused to say "I don't know" when they were asked questions about the beginnings of the Earth.

Almost everyone chooses to believe some parts of the Bible, even non-believers and those who have serious doubts about any religion. Justice meted out for what our society considers minor offenses or non issues is death in many cases presented in the Old Testament. Do you really believe that disobedient children should be killed? Why do you choose to believe what you believe and when the Bible contradicts itself, as it often does, how do you know which to believe ...... and does not believing in both sides of a contradiction disqualify you from being a fundamentalist?

You are right about one thing. Science does not explain lots of things. Unfortunately, there are too many people like you who refuse to believe what science has explained ..... and proven ..... because you choose to believe what cannot be and has been disproven by rational people.

We all do have a right to believe what we want and free speech is protected, but people like Dr. Braun will be criticized every time he presents his irrational view of the world and so will you.

I have a lot more respect for those Christians who base their religious beliefs on the actual teachings of Christ such as the Sermon on the Mount where he spoke about how other people should be treated. Those of you who use the Bible as the source of science information and especially those (and I am not accusing you) who use the Bible to justify hating others do not deserve respect for your beliefs.

@ atheistS;

Because DNA is a linear array of those four bases—A,G,C, and T—only four possibilities exist at any specific point in a DNA sequence. The laws of chance tell us that two random sequences from species that have no ancestry in common will match at about one in every four sites. Thus even two unrelated DNA sequences will be 25 percent identical, not 0 percent identical (2000, p. B-7).

Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical. Would it be correct, then, to state that daffodils are “one-quarter human”? The idea that a flower is one-quarter human is neither profound nor enlightening; it is outlandishly ridiculous! There is hardly any biological comparison that could be conducted that would make daffodils human—except perhaps DNA. Marks went on to concede:

Moreover, the genetic comparison is misleading because it ignores qualitative differences among genomes.... Thus, even among such close relatives as human and chimpanzee, we find that the chimp’s genome is estimated to be about 10 percent larger than the human’s; that one human chromosome contains a fusion of two small chimpanzee chromosomes; and that the tips of each chimpanzee chromosome contain a DNA sequence that is not present in humans (B-7, emp. added).

The truth is, if we consider the absolute amount of genetic material when comparing primates and humans, the 1-2% difference in DNA represents approximately 80 million different nucleotides (compared to the 3-4 billion nucleotides that make up the entire human genome). To help make this number understandable, consider the fact that if evolutionists had to pay you one penny for every nucleotide in that 1-2% difference between the human and the chimp, you would walk away with $800,000. Given those proportions, 1-2% does not appear so small, does it?

For almost 30 years, researchers have asserted that the DNA of humans and chimps is at least 98.5% identical. Now research reported here last week at the American Society for Human Genetics meeting suggests that the two primate genomes might not be quite as similar after all. A closer look has uncovered nips and tucks of homologous sections of DNA that weren’t noticed in previous studies (298:719, emp. added).

Not one of you have offered source,just your own opinions, and one line zingers on me, the truth is in the science you say Christians ignore. Now will you argue with the American society of human genetics? I pulled this from a previous argument a while back(not new news to me)), and a post that atheistS collapsed.lol You guys need to keep up, that we evolved from apes is becoming less of a possibility, not more.

NOW WHAT!!??

Coral, I don't understand what point you are trying to make. If we now have a slightly different measurement of our exact genetic relatedness to chimps, they are still obviously our closest relatives.

Coral, I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

AMEN!

@jock; The point is that we did not evolve from apes.

Therefore a human and any earthly DNA-based life form must be at least 25% identical. Would it be correct, then, to state that daffodils are “one-quarter human”? The idea that a flower is one-quarter human is neither profound nor enlightening; it is outlandishly ridiculous!

The point is that just because there are similarities does not mean we evolved from that species,also to show that we are not as closely related as we first thought to apes and chimps, did we evolve from the daffodil, no we did not. My opinion is that we did not evolve from apes, what I show above are new findings to back that up some more, not drawing a final conclusion to it.

Coral, the most important is the relative degree of relatedness. It is still obvious that chimps are our closest relatives. Scientists are currently researching exactly which genes are different and how they contribute to the observed differences.

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Isa. 40:22

That was written 1500 years before scientific theory proved the world was round!

How did the "medieval" prophets have such knowledge?

Disabled Voter - That passage would more fittingly be descriptive of a flat disc, than of a sphere.

A circle is a two dimensional object. A globe is three dimensional.

If you've ever looked a a medieval, or ancient world map, a flat circle is the typical representation, with the world Ocean surrounding it on all sides.

Coral Taxi, did you ever read anything about ancient civilizations other than that in your Bible? Try looking into ancient Persia, Mesopotamia, and Egypt. Look into what their religious writings were and their beliefs. You'll find them very similar to those you say are Christian only. No murdering, no stealing are basic tenants of vitually any civilization. If you weren't trying to push your views on everyone else, why are you here? To keep athiests from having the last word? You say you are giving us the truth. It is only the truth to you, not to everyone that doesn't believe as you do, in your Bible. Most of us are more interested in facts rather than faith. Remember, the Bible was written by men, thusly it can only be imperfect as it didn't come from God's hands directly. It also has many things that have been lost in translation and many things that were carved out of it over the centuries to suit the needs of the Catholic Church, and some things are just inaccuracies. In fact, what you know as the Bible is only a quarter of what was written for it. Here is something to prove. Prove your God isn't a space alien with higher technology than ours.

@brent;

Look into what their religious writings were and their beliefs. You'll find them very similar to those you say are Christian only. No murdering, no stealing are basic tenants of vitually any civilization.

Not even close to be true. The religions of those times were all Idol worshippers, the exact type of thing that made God angry. Do not compare Hindus, and Pagans to my religion, this is an insult.Over time in these areas Christianity was taking over in Persia as the more affluent were accepting God as one God. Then Islam took over. The ten commandments are the earliest recorded "laws" on record around 1500 1600 bc. I will tell you so you do not goole yourself to death that there were two tribes that had or might have had some laws to contain murder, or stealing.

There are no true empiracle evidence or records of these nor will you find them, be thankfull I saved you from the snipe hunt I have sent others on.lol. The ten commandments are the first and only set of "laws" that are empirical , meaning they are self replicating in proven different times(eras) of history .The discovery of the dead seas schrolls is how this came to be. You see the difference in I and others is that I show and prove I do not just talk.

announced that it planned to briefly add a new scroll to the show, one of the oldest and best-preserved manuscripts of the Ten Commandments.

You see it is not "only truth to me" but truth to you sir.

If you weren't trying to push your views on everyone else, why are you here? To keep athiests from having the last word?

To offer different perspective, to make atheistS think, to give them pause to what they do not believe in. When I first started posting many years ago,yahoo,newsvine,etc I would notice one thing in the vines on evolution or talking about some crazy preacher, that atheistS would just come in and mock and dismiss as fools people with religion. they would especially pick on Christianity.

What I make them realize is that they are more gulty of judging and prejidous against those with religion than the ones with religion are against them.. ie A Christian accepts all, an atheist accepts nothing. I remind them that they are the pot calling the kettle black, then refute with facts whatever their biased views on the subject of the article was, I do this with source and example something that did not exist in the hundreds on this first vine, just zingers on Coral Taxi.Notice out of the first two hundred post I am the only one that offered source and example, I could be wrong but I did not see any other post that did.

It also has many things that have been lost in translation and many things that were carved out of it over the centuries to suit the needs of the Catholic Church, and some things are just inaccuracies. In fact, what you know as the Bible is only a quarter of what was written for it. Here is something to prove. Prove your God isn't a space alien with higher technology than ours.

You atheistS always miss the point of the bible. The main message of the bible has always stayed the same over thousands of years. The point is not just to believe the unbelievable miracles of the bible, the point is to use it as a guide, and gain salvation, and learn how to keep it. The Catholics did not change the Bible to their liking.lol This is an ignorant statement,and shows your true lack of knowledge.

Here is something to prove. Prove your God isn't a space alien with higher technology than ours.

You see this is the largest misconception of me, that I am trying to "prove God".lol When God is proved there will no longer be a need to believe for salvation. To prove God is not my job, nor are we supposed to try, what a Christian does is spread the word, what you do with it is up to you, we are not here to prove we are here to tell. Why this is so hard to understand I do not know.When I am backing up scripture with findings of today it is more to learn than to prove to myself that God exists. I knew this in my heart long before I knew of the bible I felt the stirring of my creator out in the middle of North Carolina on the farm as a child. The feeling is undeniable and unmistakable,and very real.

@ bRENT;

I once told a skeptical inquirer that I knew where he was, but that he didn’t know where I was. The arrogance of God’s detractors is so very futile and infantile. Being that all Christians were once unbelievers, we fully understand their debate and mindset. Because of this, we are able to quickly assess their issues and dismiss them as foolishness. Understanding the infinite wisdom that Jesus Christ is the center of all things, visible and invisible, is a glorious product of the fear of God, and that is the beginning of wisdom. The spiritually
blind cannot see.

Take it for what it is brother.

Dude, you are still blindly following the faith instead of looking at actual facts that I presented. I have no use for religion, it is not for me. One can be a perfectly fine human, even without religion. You won't believe it because your faith clouds the issue. At least you admit that the Bible isn't to be taken form a completely literal point of view, or we'd be killing teenagers left and right, for speaking back to their parents. You don't consider my facts, factual because they don't fit your faith. If you'll notice I left out the notion of adultery as there is a kink in that. That kink being that during the times in which the Bible was written, adultery had a different meaning, since a man's wife was his property, it wasn't legal for other men to sleep with another man's wife. However, a married man could sleep with other women as long as they weren't married to someone else. This also is a truth, you will deny. Science is a better gauge of reality than your religion ever will be. If you choose to ignore facts, that is on you. I choose to ignore religion and I am doing just fine by most standards. The notion that having to prove God exists is an old one and one you won't even try, because of your blind faith. Apparently, you can no more understand my facts anymore than I care to see your faith. That is about where we shall agree to disagree.

Not even close to be true. The religions of those times were all Idol worshippers, the exact type of thing that made God angry.

Coral Taxi - you are missing the point. Whether these ancient religions represented their gods with graven images, or eschewed such practices, as Brent correctly points out, many of these cultures instituted the same basic practices one finds in the 10 commandments, at least the secular ones.

The ten commandments are the earliest recorded "laws" on record around 1500 1600 bc. I will tell you so you do not goole yourself to death that there were two tribes that had or might have had some laws to contain murder, or stealing.

There are no true empiracle evidence or records of these nor will you find them, be thankfull I saved you from the snipe hunt I have sent others on.lol.

The legal code of Hammurabi, who reigned in Babylon around 1750 B.C., for instance predates the earliest periods of the Old Testament, and details the same legal constraints as do the 10 commandments. We know of these laws through empirical evidence, in the form of the stone pillars on which they were inscribed, and which were found in 1901 A.D.

Neither the Judeo-Christian God, the Israelites, nor Moses invented the concept that it is wrong to steal, kill, dishonor your parents, or bear false witness against one's neighbors. They simply adapted these laws to their own use.

There were no copyright laws in the second millennium B.C.

Also, our society has abandoned almost all laws relating to the non-secular commandments. There has never been any prohibition against the worship of other [strange] gods in this country. The blue laws, forbidding certain commercial activity on Sunday, have been repealed in most jurisdictions, and I've never heard of anybody being prosecuted for blasphemy.

So, where are the legal representations of commandments one through three?

The ten commandments are the first and only set of "laws" that are empirical , meaning they are self replicating in proven different times(eras) of history

A set of laws, any set of laws would cannot be "empirical". Evidence of a set of laws may be empirical, as in based upon direct observation, or direct evidence. For instance the stone tablets or pillars on found in 1901, on which were inscribed the Laws of Hammurabi, would constitute empirical evidence that such a legal code existed in Babylon, in 1750 B.C. But the laws themselves are not "empirical". Neither are the 10 commandments.

BTW:One does not have to "goole yourself to death" to uncover evidence of Hammurabi and his legal code. It is a well known part of the historical record.

@BRENT;

Dude, you are still blindly following the faith instead of looking at actual facts that I presented.

I am a Christian of course I have faith. I give you empiracle evidence of the Ten commandments and show you how they are the first and only ones("laws") that can be proven completely,and they are on display in NY, and I am one of the only one out of hundreds to use source and physical examples on this vine, and yet you tell me I am not looking at the facts? WOW. You presented your opinion,and I pointed out pointedly on two of them how wrong you were,eg The Catholics changing the bible,lol, and the comaprison of Idol worshipping religions to Christianity,where we are not to worship idols.Wrong on both accounts, you do not present facts sir. you present your opinion.

@dman;

as Brent correctly points out, many of these cultures instituted the same basic practices one finds in the 10 commandments, at least the secular ones

You have no proof of this. The leaders of these times were murderers, and thieves that stole from the weak and poor,making sacrifice to statues and nature they did not live by their own rules. it was not "love thy neigbor"lol. Their law was if you kill someone then you are killed, if you steal then everything is taken from you, these "laws" were more about revenge, about getting even. not even close to what the Ten commandments encompass.

The legal code of Hammurabi, who reigned in Babylon around 1750 B.C., for instance predates the earliest periods of the Old Testament, and details the same legal constraints as do the 10 commandments. We know of these laws through empirical evidence, in the form of the stone pillars on which they were inscribed, and which were found in 1901 A.D.

Show me this empiracle evidence, these laws are not self replicating. Theses were supposedly "codes" to get even, or get revenge, not even close to the Ten commandments. Show me these pillars. The commandments are on display now with the dead sea scrolls. I will concede that there was a code with the Hamurrabi, but not really close to being the Ten commandments or the basic tenants of life we live by, more about getting revenge or staying even, not losing face.

and details the same legal constraints as do the 10 commandments.

Not really. Much of this is conjecture, hard to prove. Like my old boss used to say, "show me don't tell me".

Neither the Judeo-Christian God, the Israelites, nor Moses invented the concept that it is wrong to steal, kill, dishonor your parents, or bear false witness against one's neighbors. They simply adapted these laws to their own use.

Once again show me the codes that state this. Most of this is conjecture on yours and their part , guesses. They did not adapt these laws? lol They created the code of ethics that would be used for thousands of years, the proof of them is irrefutable, unlike your Hammurabbi "laws" I do not believe this is a fair comparison, also that is the only other example in the history of the world, besides the Ten commandments, so I would say my original statement that we live by the Ten commandments,Christian or not stands strong.

A set of laws, any set of laws would cannot be "empirical". Evidence of a set of laws may be empirical, as in based upon direct observation, or direct evidence.

Well fly to NY, where the commandments have been added to dead sea schrolls and you will have direct observation, and self replicating evidence, eg The bible states the ten commandments, the dead seas schrolls is replicating evidence found later in another era.

But the laws themselves are not "empirical". Neither are the 10 commandments

I understand your point, but I believe the ten commandments match the empiracle definition, as they are self replicating and you can see touch and feel them if you were allowed.

Also, our society has abandoned almost all laws relating to the non-secular commandments. There has never been any prohibition against the worship of other [strange] gods in this country.

If you would have read my earlier post, I state that we live by the "basic tenants" of the commandments,not all of them, as Brent did understand this eg murder,stealing adultery, not all the laws of God, I am not that ignorant sir. I am all for seperation of church and state. Share Your Thoughts

"Hammurabi, the king of
righteousness, on whom Shamash has conferred the law, am I."

"An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth."

This phrase, along with the idea of written laws, goes back to ancient
Mesopotamian culture that prospered long before the Bible was written or the
civilizations of the Greeks or Romans flowered."An eye for an eye ..." is a
paraphrase of Hammurabi's Code, a collection of 282 laws inscribed on an upright
stone pillar. The code was found by French archaeologists in 1901 while
excavating the ancient city of Susa, which is in modern-day Iran.

All too often the victim or his family had gone beyond what the perpetrator or
his family thought was appropriate and had begun an endless cycle of
revenge. Hammurabi felt that once the
perpetrator had paid the price the incident should be considered
closed.

You see this is my point,these "laws" were based on revenge and saving face, this will expound my meaning.

Elsewhere in this website I have stressed the need to
look at the past through its own eyes and not through our own. The following principles might well be
questioned today but their validity in the Ancient World was regarded as
self-evident:

You see these laws on killing and stealing are not used as the commandments are. Get it now?

Social order was more important than individual rights

1. Women’s sexuality should be sacrificed to ensure
   legitimacy
2. A family’s wealth should be administered by the
   husband/father
3. Women, especially widows and divorcees, needed society’s
   help

Keeping these axioms in
mind will help us see Hammurabi’s Law Code in the same way the Babylonians saw
it. Numbers in brackets refer to the section numbers in the code.

Perhaps the clearest example of the sacrifice of
individual rights on the altar of social order is the provision that would spell
death for the builder’s son if a new house collapsed and killed the owner’s
son. A wife may or may not have been considered property in the same way a son or daughter was, but her sexuality
belonged exclusively to her husband, and any interference therewith had to be
punished as much as any other serious theft.

This system is based purely on revenge, not anywhere close to what the commandments teach us, to compare them is an insult.The last part sounds like communist Chinas rule.lol

When I say there is no empiracle evidence of these laws, I mean they do not fit the whole definition, ie There is only one example of them on a pillar, they are not replicated again at any time, or have ties found in the future that would prove them more than once. eg We have unearthed writings on old walls in Jerusalem that match scripture in the bible. So we have replicating evidence.

Disabled Voter - That passage would more fittingly be descriptive of a flat disc, than of a sphere.

A circle is a two dimensional object. A globe is three dimensional.

If you've ever looked a a medieval, or ancient world map, a flat circle is the typical representation, with the world Ocean surrounding it on all sides.

Dman - While that could seem to be a reasonable explanation, one in which Indian scientists once held, one must not ignore further biblical references regarding the spherical design of the Earth.

When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: Prov. 8:27

The word compass can mean spherical, and the context of this passage would seem to denote such.

Isaiah describes God as sitting on the circle of the earth.

How does sitting on a flat disc (Earth) lend understanding to the readers of his day?

Most scholars agree that the original terms used, were used to denote roundness and not flatness!

orbis terrarum are those words, and is properly understood to mean spherical.

Alright, I presented you with facts not an opinion. Just because the Mesopotamians were eradicated as a society, doesn't make their notions of no stealing, and not killing anyless true. You are only looking at the punishment phase of their laws, not what the laws say in context of what is legal and not legal. Thusly, it was still illegal to steal and kill wontonly, just as it is today, just the punishments are different. Thus your assumption is false because all you are looking at is the punishment. The fact that the Hammurabi's Code exists is empirical evidence that you are overlooking because it wasn't replicated over and over throughout history. I was not offering an opinion when I said the Catholic Church changed the Bible many times to fit their agenda for the day. That is historical fact. They would cut out all that they disagreed with. You should also realize that they actually put the New Testament together, themselves. They all had to agree as to what went into it and they would change it if something they originally put in it went against the grain of what they were trying to do at any given time in history. You can deny it all you like, but it is historical fact. If you need an example, then look at the first few Popes who were married or had known concubines, then at some point sex became a bad thing and celibacy was made into a mandate for all clergy.

The other point I will make is this; when faith overtakes facts in reality, then you end up with Inquisitions and witch hunts. When religion takes too strong of a hold on advanced civilizations, they tend to crumble the civilization. This has been proven over and over again throughout history. It seems some of the Arabic Muslim nations are immune from this notion, but I'm not sure we could call them advanced civilizations. We shall see how long they do last. The Arab Spring seems to be spreading.

Disabled voter, it is hard to gain any hard evidence of your claim about "compass can mean spherical". Can and does are 2 different things. It comes down to a matter of interpretation and perception. By this I mean that in the days account for by the Bible, did they actually think in terms of 2 or 3 dimensions, or was it too abstrtact for the scholars of the time? If you think about it, Pythagoras didn't come up with his theories until over 1000 years after the Torah was established. While orbis terrarum is a fair desription, it is Latin, and the Torah wasn't written in Latin, but translated into it. Proverbs is part of the Old Testament. Again, this leads us back to translation and how accurate it may or may not be. Just something to think about.

Do not compare Hindus, and Pagans to my religion, this is an insult

translation:

"I'm better than you because my make-believe sky fairy is bigger and better"

sounds like the taliban

@Iamconfusedpeople;

Umm no, we do not worship statues and idols, nor do we destroy them as the Taliban. Comparing my religion to idol worship is an insult. Christians do not put themselves above anyone, it is all about being humble, you know, the meek shall inherit the earth, not the proud.

hey coral taxi like your post I think paul broun is a brave and descent man not ashamed of his faith and doesnt care what kind of political ramifacations it will have on his career true soilder for christ we need more people like him in this country to stand up for the truth (God) and what this country was really founded on godly principles and morals and by the way to all the evolutionist out there Im not trying to affend you just showing you the light darwin saw the light the truth and before he died he became a christian and now he has eternal life god bless you darwin and god bless the evolutionist amen good night

true soilder for christ

I seem to recall that jesus was pretty much all about peace, so "soldier for christ" seems to be a bit of an oxymoron, although he did trash the temple.(supposedly)

When Galileo proposed his scientific knowledge, the Church wanted to kill him. The nerve of this man saying the Earth is a big ball of rock floating in space in a circle around a gigantic Sun. So as these folks continue to "home-school" their kids, some Americans in the 21st century will once again be looking to kill others for suggesting the Earth is not flat. And, I mean literally.

Your hatred has clearly blocked your vision. You rant about non-existant positions you evidently wish President Obama believed. Perhaps you should speak with a physician about your visions. Sometimes medication can help.

Romney's big bang was with big Bird, I feel sorry for the poor bird !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one I know is "scared" of the religious right except when they are placed into position of power over American scientific learning - and that should scare anyone! Free Speech is alive and well, and when a person who Chairs a House Science Committee says Evolution is a lie "straight from the pit of hell" - so is Free Laughter (even though it is kind of sad to think he could really be that intellectually challenged).

I think it is past the time when "We the People" call for an Amendment to the Constitution that will force "NOTA" (None of the Above) to be placed on every ballot so that when only fools run the election has to be started over if the people demand it. I know, I know - then Congress would be empty. LOL!

Unhappy: You seem to be unclear as to what "hysteria" is, and you don't seem to realize that a Chairperson of a Congressional Science Panel has effects beyond state boundaries. I am very happy that most comments here support having someone who understands science in such a position - but it's no skin off my beak if you want to be Unhappy or uneducated. Knock yourself out.

"The lunatic is on the grass....Got to keep the loonies on the path"- from "Brain Damage" by Pink Floyd.

Unhappy, thank you for the best laugh I have had all day. The big bang theory is too big of a stretch for you to believe but some divine invisible supernatural being based on a 2000 thousand year old book with absolutely no evidence to support it is not a stretch for you?

The only reason I fear people like you is because you can vote.

Obviously Unhappy, your religion isn't making you happy, maybe you should consider losing it.

So Hell is real? What other cool stuff came straight from Hell?

Hunters and God - oh boy!

mic, you can worship bugs bunny, I really don't care what delusion you choose to believe, Christians are not under attack. Christians say all kinds of terrible things about non Christians and when we choose to reflect that hate back you sit and whine and cry. Grow up, no one cares what you believe, just keep it out of our government.

This conversation should not even be happening, but somehow 'church' has been combined once again with 'state.' This is the very reason our country was founded. Our forefathers were escaping the flawed system in which religion was so twisted up into their politics and daily life that they were being persecuted for their beliefs or non-beliefs. And yet 225+ years later we have come full circle again. This is what is so frightening about someone like this being in politics. He is blindly leading the blind based and making important decisions about how our lives should be regulated based on what people thought 2,000 years ago. Have we not evolved as a society since then or should we just revert to making human scarifies, treating women as property, and having nothing but hate and animosity for anyone who even slightly differs from the way 'God' said we should be. Instead of focusing on the real issues, these fundamentalists are gaining votes simply by saying, "I'm a christian, I'm pro life, I'm pro NRA." Can we not move beyond this and get down to business? Why do you have to be religious to gain votes. I wish an atheist would be in office, we could avoid all this nonsense and focus that energy on the real issues.

And the earth is 6000 years old. You people are delusional. And there is no cure for that. When you actually practice the love that your religion says you must do, maybe, just maybe I can believe a little of the creator myth.

i'll tell you why the radical religious right scares me. you feel you have some GOD GIVEN right to tell me how to live my life. and don't say that if i'm not from this man's state i don't have to worry. the house has sent down several bills (all stopped, thank goodness) to take away the rights of women and gays-not because they've done anything wrong but because their freedoms don't fit into the tight, anal, archaic views of fundamentalism. i don't care how you live your life. you can go to church ten times a day for all i care, just LEAVE ME ALONE! and that's what the religious right refuses to do! as long as you think you have a right to force me to live my life by your standards i will fight just as hard to stop you. and i'll tell you why:

because I AM A CHRISTIAN. i believe that Jesus tried to teach us how to live and his ideals are very easy to understand but almost impossible for humans to live by. "love thy neighbor as thyself." sounds easy, right? unfortunately, greed and arrogance are stronger forces in the human condition than compassion and tolerance. you can't love your neighbor and at the same time work with malice and forethought to make their lives miserable and unhappy by keeping them from marrying the person they love. if they're committing a sin, it's between them and God, not them and YOU or the government. you can't love your neighbor while at the same time condemn him/her because they don't believe the way you do. "Do not judge lest ye be judged." that's not a suggestion. it's a commandment. while you may think what a woman does with her body is sinful, it is NOT YOUR BUSINESS!!!!! it is between her and God.

i believe in God-not some guy sitting on a throne somewhere with a bolt of lightning in his hand. THAT is Zeus! that is Thor! God is the creative source of the universe. it says so, right in the Bible. stop following like lemmings, the snake oil salesmen who want nothing more than to control you and your money and open your eyes. God says, "I am that I am. I am the alpha and the omega. the beginning and the end." God only appears as forms of energy and says that no human can look upon him without dying. what does this tell you? it tells you that GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING. HE NEVER WAS. the image that we have been created in is a spiritual image, an energy source-if you will THE creative energy that is the universe itself. and IF you truly believe that God is this omnipotent creator then you must understand that we never invented anything, we've only discovered what has always been there. God created all of the laws of science, all the secrets of the cosmos, and science, far from taking away God's power should help you to see just how incredible this energy is.

evolution is a theory, not because it isn't true, but because it is a work in progress. there is nothing that would exclude God from the evolution that we understand today. so, He used evolution to bring forth humans, so what? that doesn't make God any less omnipotent. there are still a lot of questions concerning evolution, such as why we alone evolved so quickly. maybe in some future when we have learned to live together in peace and harmony with not only one another, but also our planet and the universe as a whole, we will come to understand how and why we were chosen to evolve the way we have.

but, the more important question here, isn't whether God created the earth in six days or four billion years, it is not the factual information in the Bible that we should be paying attention to. it is the philosophy-will we learn to "love our neighbors" and "not judge"?will we learn to love God by being loving stewards of this beautiful jewel that we have been set upon-to live in harmony? or will we continue to be filled with anger and hatred for anyone who doesn't follow our way of thinking? will we continue to fill the history books with wars and blood and death and sorrow - all in the name of God?

this congressman is a dangerous man because he wants to continue the hatred and not the harmony. he's dangerous because he uses the name God as a tool to wield control over people who"have eyes, but cannot to see and ears but cannot to hear."

Unhappy I think you misunderstood your own point. Creation Theory suggests things just appeared, as god made them so. Evolution believes that creates adapt and change over time.

To better see Evolution and Selective Evolution in action please look to your Dog. The genetic modifications we have pushed onto that species alone through thousands of years and millions of generations to selectively turn a Wolf into a Chihuahua is a good show of concept.

Remember GOD didn't make Dogs. MAN did.

Unhappy I assure you I hold a college degree from a university, I know Christians believe its 6000 years old but there is massive evidence to say that is wrong. There is NO scientific evidence to prove the existence of God, I dare you to prove it from a legitimate source and not just some moron like that congressman.

If you so strongly believe in science then your issue is with liberals, cognitive dissonance, you religious nuts are very good at that.

Why is this news?

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Christians believe in the Bible and God, and not in Big Bang and Evolution.

Yep, that's how its been for a long time. Why do people act surprised when someone talks to a church group about it.

Please come away from the Dark Ages. The Spherical Earth revolves around the sun. People believed this before the Bible was able to be written.( no language). I believe that we can never explain it all. Where would the fun be in that. We keep expanding or knowledge base and just haven't expelled the ditris. Why isn't the stupidity of astrology stopped. Everyday it is printed in the newspapers and available on line. They knew every thing then
except the fact that there were 8 (really 9) planets not 6.

.

If you so strongly believe in science then your issue is with liberals, cognitive dissonance, you religious nuts are very good at that.

Jan: Calling me a religious nut will not make your point. It's what liberals like to do.

Step 1: Change the Subject

Step 2: Ignore the facts

Step 3: When all else fails, resort to Name- Calling

I believe you are on Step 3....... I think most christians are willing to look for alternate solutions as to why things " just appear". You must have some level of faith, to believe in evolution, right? Afterall, it's not like you were there millions of years ago?

Why don't you tell us what your level of education is, so I will know if I will be wasting my time with this debate?

Carole, I would have to agree with you, I am the same way. I am religious, I do believe in God, but I absolutely believe in evolution, I believe in scientific theory and in fact love watching science channels that go into the history of the earth and the universe. To me there is a common misconception that 'our' time is Gods time, for all we know a blink of an eye to God could be a millennium to us.

There are fanatics in every facet of life and belief and quite frankly they can be scary so I do my best to stay away from them as do most people I know, however it should be fairly obvious that their ideals do NOT speak for everyone who even tiptoes around the same belief. Just because they believe in God and creation doesn't mean that I believe in creation since I believe in God. That being said, no one has the right, either Atheist or Religious, to look down on others simply because their belief system is different. If people want to live and let live then it should be practiced and not just preached.

Hi, there some very interesting articles in ICS I know you would enjoy reading them if you have not already. I no longer frustrate myself with people who are scared to death that there is a GOD and they are going to be held accountable; I was on of those till I was 38 then the Holy Spirit opened my eyes, soften my heart and revealed the truth. No point casting pearls before the unsaved, they do not hear because they cannot.

"You must have some level of faith, to believe in evolution, right?"

Not really. All science involves inference to some degree, but when the evidence becomes strong enough, the inference becomes a sure thing. Evolution past that point decades ago. I understand that people may not be aware of the evidence, but then they shouldn't be so sure they can pass judgment. I have been studying evolution for 30 years. All biologists accept evolution as obvious.

Patriotic American U.S.A.

Romney's big bang was with big Bird, I feel sorry for the poor bird !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....and most of us feel sorry for you because you're pathetic and never have anything constructive or useful to say - just your typical moronic babble! You need to change your screen name to "Pathetic Azzhole U.S.A."

Unhappy I did tell you what my education level was, apparently reading or caring what you are reading doesn't occur to you. Also, you call anyone that doesn't believe in your imaginary friend uneducated. There are medications that can treat your delusions. Conservatives are as bad or worse about name calling, so stop being a hypocrite, your posts are full of it. You haven't presented ANY case for why we should believe in your imaginary friend. I am bored with you and your educational level is likely beneath me, anyone can claim a college degree, you are proving there you lack critical thinking skills, I am very skeptical.

As I said if being a bible beater makes you so unhappy, why not find something that does make you happy?

Unhappy, you may have been educated as a scientist in 1950 or probably not but evolutionary changes don't change in the span of six thousand years as you bible beaters climb. The type of changes we have seen have take far longer and by the way in case you haven't heard of it, carbon dating. There is less debate on millions of years than you seem to think, then again, if you have been getting your information from your imaginary friend, no wonder you are clueless.

I agree with Carole J. I am a cradle Catholic and even the Catechism of the Catholic Church says, " Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created 'in a state of journeying' toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it." [302] How beautiful is that? And I think it explains the idea of evolution quite well...we're all on a journey folks, trying to attain perfection, but we are FAR from it!

And we're only 17th in scientific knowledge in all modern countries? Do people who believe as this Representative does, and who also profess to believe in American exceptionalism, want us to fall even further behind the rest of the world in scientific knowledge and maybe even go to the very bottom of the list? Literal interpretation of the Bible, and the intolerance that usually results, prevents the acceptance of established scientific reality. I don't understand how people can profess that the Bible is the absolute word of God and yet pick and choose which parts they choose to believe are the literal truth. Everyone should have the right to believe in their religion and have faith in God, but to be true to their Christian religion, they should also have the kind of tolerance which was taught by Jesus. There is a valid reason for the separation of church and state, one in which the founding Fathers believed, and that is to prevent any one religion's beliefs to dictate the order of civil society. Laws should protect the public and maintain social order, not dictate how we live our lives. People who want to base our laws on Christian beliefs regarding how we should act are no different than the fundamentalist Muslims who want to establish their government and their laws based on their religion. the very thing that fundamentalist Christians decry. I'm always amazed by their unawareness of this hypocrisy. Believe what you want to believe, but don't try to force those beliefs on everyone else by trying to turn our Constitution, which was based on the idea of religious freedom, into a Christian document. It's not - that's what the Bible is for.

Miron1, I suggest for YOUR information YOU are the one who should “study history harder”, rather than actively spread disinformation.

The “secular people” who disagreed with Galileo were those fellow astronomers who opposed the Copernican theory of a heliocentric solar system – not for “entertainment sakes”. What you failed to mention is that many of these astronomers were also theologians or clergy – Jesuits in particular - which hardly makes them "secular". Whether their enmity was motivated by professional jealousy, religious fervor, or both, they still didn’t have the power to “persecute” him on their own. So your claim that his persecution was purely “secular” is misleading at best. Some clergy (like his former student Castelli,
who was an abbot) defended him, but most did not. When his enemies did get a priest to denounce
him from the pulpit, that denunciation’s purpose was to show the Church believed he was in error, not that he should be put to death for his support of Copernicus.

Galileo was not spending “some time in church with monks” during this period. He was Professor of Mathematics at the University of Padua, a financially lucrative post he held for almost 2 decades, and one which he took to provide dowries for the 2 younger sisters. He also produced 3 illegitimate children with his mistress – hardly something you can do while “spending time in church with monks”.
Do better research next time – you’re thinking of his much earlier schooling in Florence when he was about 18 - among the Camaldolese monks.

Galileo’s real prosecution - and persecution - came from the Roman Inquisition, because his findings were seen as an attempt to the harm the Holy Faith by proving the Scriptures were wrong, not from “seculars demand[ing] his death”.

The Church supported Aristotle’s notion that the earth was the center of the universe (even though
a pagan, his view coincided with their needs). Anyone who said otherwise was a de facto heretic, and heresy was what Galileo was charged with. Heresy, for your information, is not a secular charge.

Since Galileo could not conclusively prove he was right, to the Church’s satisfaction, he was ordered to abandon the Copernican theory. He complied, and while initially he was not imprisoned nor were his
writings banned, that changed 7 years later when he actually stood trial before the Inquisition for heresy – a far more serious thing than merely being examined, as he had been before. He was found
guilty, and was formally imprisoned at the Inquisition’s pleasure. This was commuted to house for the rest of his life. His previous works were banned, and any he might write in future, were forbidden publication.

This was not done by a secular authority, and as a condemned heretic, he was denied burial in his family tomb. He was finally interred in a church by civil authorities a century later, over the objections of a lot of clergy.

So before you start blindly knee-jerk defending religious authorities against a valid claim of ignorance and censorship in future, please get your facts straight.

Why are we limiting ourselves to one way (evolution) or the other (divine intervention)?

What about a third possibility?

What if "god" isn't the divine being wearing the white robe who listens to prayers, but an intelligent species from another planet who came here and made a few DNA changes with what was already here, and created "man"?

Maybe our real purpose in life is just that; the propagation of life.

I see very well now how the Democrats/liberals/progressives will act if their version of the messiah is reelected in November. Anyone who espouses a belief in the real Messiah will be persecuted over the free speech issue. Creationists will be ridden out of town on rails. Church goers will suddenly have to choose between Islam and Christianity.

I am a scientific creationist. Why can I not have my opinion without be cursed at, reviled, and called all manner of names by people who claim to want freedom for all? Is freedom for all only available to those who toe the progressive line and chant the liberal mantras?

That provides our world a very poor image of "the land of the free and the home of the brave." Why anyone wants to come here to live under the tyranny of the left is beyond me.

What I don't understand Bob in KC, is how churches of scientific creationist are exempt from paying taxes unlike the rest of us free minded citizens.

This is proof once again how bat @!$%# crazy the GOP has become since Reagan invited the Evangelicals to take a ride with them on a magic carpet. Sooner or later these lunatic GOP'ers will have a total melt down and we will have another party form from these frothing mouthed crazy lunatics. Food for thought. I wonder what kind of doctor this guy is? Does he believe in medicine or does he do the laying of hands to heal his patients? I would not be surprised if he didn't practice this voodoo crap. Probably ties prayer clothes to their shirts and then douses them with oil that has been prayed over. The GOP cannot disappear too soon for me. They are becoming a bigger joke with each passing year.

Another religious moron that makes the rest of the world laugh at us.

not to even mention wtf ever happened to separation between church and state?

I think this is just plain silly to argue over theories like this.

We don't truly know for a fact that a 'day' in creation was 24 hours as we know it. We know for a fact that time is completely relative to where you are located at any given location in every point in space or planetary system. Our 24 hour day doesn't exist on any other planet in our solar system, let alone any other solar system in our galaxy with countless galaxies in existence. Who are we to say that the biblical 'day' was 24 hours? It does not in fact say anything in that regard. From the void of nothing, to the existence of matter, could in fact end up being billions of our 'years', but a single 'day' from a different time perspective.

This is where 'evolution' comes into play. I don't exactly believe that the complexity of humans or animals magically morphed out of primordial ooze, but was directed by an intelligence or power that we have not even the remotest chance of understanding or comprehending. I believe that there is an existence beyond our physical limitations that we also cannot prove or comprehend either.

We as a species desire to find out the what, how and where to understand our own existence, however, many things have been withheld from us, and I think it is deliberate.

We only need to wait until released from this limited and fragile physical existence to truly find out how ignorant we truly are of the 'big picture'.

Either he's off his meds or needs them adjusted.

The Far Right Conservative Evangelicals Republicans are The Christian Taliban......The Christian Taliban mentality has been a big obstacle to progress in this country.....It's easy to see the damage this mentality does to Freedom and Progress.....All we have to do is look at the Middle East...., Iran for example.. They are Terrorists...persecu​ting and killing Gays, Doctors and nurses that perform abortions, ALL in the name of GOD.....also demanding control of women's reproductive rights...in the name of GOD...... .For representing a small percentage of the American people they have a much larger Voice then they should have because they have found a HOME with the GOP are being used by them ......but in reality they are really USING each other...for different reasons, .to bring their Agenda's to the Mainstream.....The GOP politicians laugh at this group behind close doors and all the way to the BANK.....They are the Tool the GOP uses to divide and conquer......but American's are finally catching on....I use to be very religious as a YOUTH...being indoctrinated to the church...by family....But as I became more educated on Religion and in general, I moved to an agnostic position and by my early 20's became an Atheist......After saying that, I have no problem with Religion.....and someone's right to practice their religion....What I have a problem with is Organized Religion that feels the need to legislate their Religious views for ALL to follow...My idea of Freedom of Religion is for All Americans to have a right to practice their religion and I have the right to be FREE from their Religion......

Bob - If people curse and revile you and whatever other forms of paranoia you imagine you're suffering, it isn't because of your creationism blah, blah blah, faith. Its because you are such an obviousjerk who is totally unable to have a rational debate. Your posts seem to have a single centrral theme - you hate liberals. OK. We get it. I don't understand it considering all that liberals have done for you. But, I took a gut shot in Korea so you can believe anything you want to believe, call it a religion no matter how silly it is. I'm a Christian who knows that evolution is true. The earth is a few billion years old and there is overwhelmning evidence to prove it. I believe in evidence but I believe in faith as well. There are a lot of things we accept on faith. Love, for instance.

I am religious, I do believe in God, but I absolutely believe in evolution, I believe in scientific theory and in fact love watching science channels that go into the history of the earth and the universe. To me there is a common misconception that 'our' time is Gods time, for all we know a blink of an eye to God could be a millennium to us.

I agree as well. Christianity allows infinite room for the acceptance of science.

First 2 threads collapsed, so quickly

There needs to be an IQ test for all that seek public office. 120 or above and you can run. Maybe that would get the Republicans to really promote education. But then The educated wouldn't vote for them. Catch 22

@Unhappy

What is the mechanism that accounts for "micro-evolution?" How would that mechanism not apply to "macro-evolution?" And where do the biologists who accept the first and deny the second draw the line?

I also wonder why you and Rep. Broun are so unhappy with the Big Bang Theory, which was proposed by a religious Christian (Georges Lemaitre, a Jesuit-trained Roman Catholic priest from Belgium), the same man who, before Edwin Hubble, proposed that the universe is expanding and who derived what is commonly known as Hubble's Law and Hubble's Constant. But, being the well-educated scientist you are, you already knew all that, right?

How comforting that this guy more or less just admitted that he wants to turn the US into a Christian theocracy. Welcome to Iran, everyone, just run by crazy Christians instead. Let the fun begin!

micjolly1 - Be strong, Jesus said in John 15 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Rejoyous, in the end the reward will go to those that stand for the truth of God's WORD

Step 1: Change the Subject

Step 2: Ignore the facts

Step 3: When all else fails, resort to Name- Calling

unhappy, you are revealing your "argument" technique, since you continue to do all three.

Just when you think you've seen/heard it all, the human "race" surprises and issues forth another bit of comedic relief! Thanks Pauly for making my day just a little more "uplifting" :-)

Rejoyous, in the end the reward will go to those that stand for the truth of God's WORD

You forgot to mention the reward involving the 72 virgins. Oh wait, wrong religious myth.

micjolly1 - Be strong, Jesus said in John 15 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Rejoyous, in the end the reward will go to those that stand for the truth of God's WORD

yep, here comes the "persecuted christian" lie, funny, but it has been the fundamentalist christians that have been doing most of the "persecuting" in this country...

I know this might come as a surprise... but big bang theory and creationism aren't actually in conflict. Absolutely nothing in the Bible says that the earth is 6,000 years old... or 10,000 years old. When was Earth created? "In the beginning." When was that? The beginning. Could be 40 minutes ago or six and a half billion years ago.

Could it have been created by a burst of energy? Sure. Why not? So far as I know, the only thing that is, was and always will be is energy. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It's in us and around us. Weird. Sort of like the description of God?

Also, Bible seems to indicate that Earth was pretty much covered in water for a LONG time... which is pretty in line with stuff geologists say...

Maybe if we had better reading comprehension, we wouldn't get all up in a tizzy about this stuff...

Actually Rambie, you're wrong. The Creationists do subscribe to the notion that the earth is 6000 years old. They arrived at this through a literal interpretation of the Old Testament and some creative, if not flawed math. They also believe that the earth was created in one day and in fact that the universe was created in one week, as if there is something sacred regarding a 24 hour period - which by the way, is not constant.

Listen to the video clip again - this twit is saying these scientific theories are lies coming from Hell. He was pretty specific.

Actually, Gumps, you're wrong. Yes, the most vocal people who believe in creation theory are not the best at the reading comprehension and the math. A literal interpretation of the OT does NOT tell you earth was created in one day. No where. Prove me wrong. Find where it says that.

Also, nothing says that the universe was created in one week. It sounds like you don't know what the Bible says nor do you know what many Christians believe.

Just because one person says something dumb doesn't mean he represents everyone. Do you also think all Muslims are child raping terrorists? Are all atheists suicidal? Are all gay men pedophiles? No. Lesson one, from me to you: One person, or even several people, no matter how vocal, cannot be extrapolated out to represent an entire group. That's stereotyping, man, and it's plain stupid.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Christians believe in the Bible and God, and not in Big Bang and Evolution.

Don't form your opinion of all of us based on the fanatical rantings of a few. I believe in God. I believe in evolution; there is just too much evidence to blow it off. Since there is not as much evidence on Big Bang I am not so sure about it yet, but I don't rule it out.

Don't form your opinion of all of us based on the fanatical rantings of a few.

Fanatical ranting of the dangerously unbalanced in positions of power are the only people who generate pageviews/ratings. A sensible well-reasoned person doing their job as in the job description simply isn't sexy enough to be news. Sensationalism makes every group look like a bunch of crazy people, because there's bound to be someone who takes it too far in every group.

Can you say pandering? These Republican thugs preach this nonsense as pious Christians and then propose legislation that flies in the face of every teaching of Jesus Christ. Love thy neighbor? Not if he's a Muslim or a black man! Blessed are the children? Not if he's a starving poor kid in need of a free lunch or food stamps. The meek shall inherit the Earth? By God, not if Romney and I have anything to say about it! Turn the other cheek? Wait till I undo my belt and pull down my pants.

They play on the stupidity of the ignorant. They play on the fanatics with treachery. They play on the racists with bigotry. They play on the poor and downtrodden with guilt. They play on the cowards with fear. They are the epitome of the Anti-Christ that the Bible so strongly warns to all of the faithful.

I'm not saying they are the Anti-Christ. I'm suggesting that all true Christians watch their every move as they are a preview of things to come for the faithful that believe in the Anti-Christ.

Can you say pandering?

I said that too, until I read he's running unopposed.

Amazing. Hard to believe that an entire district in this young nation still lives in the middle-ages.

Alessa: I agree completely. Hope there many more who agree and wish they'd be more vocal.

Gumps/Rambie:

As there are several sects, thus differing beliefs within Creationism, which sect are you basing your conclusions?

Abrahamic creationism, Literalist creationists, or Fundamentalist creationists?

Once again it is the non-believers who attack, all in the name of science. It is the new religion of the left. He is fanatical and the ones going after him are not. All in the name of what they call normal. Same thing libbies have done for years all in the name of peace. Hahahaha

Irvmani:

Once again it is the non-believers who attack,...

I wouldn't care if Broun believed the earth was flat, but he is in a position to legislate the laws that govern the public, including those who disagree with his religious, unproven beliefs.

When he uses those beliefs which directly effects the public, he should and deserves to be publicly attacked.

In fact, he is using his public office to discriminate against those who don't share his beliefs and should be charged with failing to separate church and state and relieved of his public duties.

As there are several sects, thus differing beliefs within Creationism, which sect are you basing your conclusions?

Who cares? They all share a single trait: Ignorance.

Holy Shyte! LOLZ....

This has to be the dumbest of all arguments......So has the FACT that the world is more than 9000 years old come into question?

Yes.....I know and we are waiting for the zombie Apocalypse........I always wonder why it can't be a unicorn Apocalypse or an Easter bunny Apocalypse...just about as likely

Remember everyone these are the people that watch ghost hunters and such......It must be a ghost....Not dust or a street light or electrical noise.....ohh how could it be...Must be a ghost...

The world is becoming such a riddiculous (an yes I put two Ds in there on purpose) place to me......We would rather believe in the crazy fantastic instead of what we can prove then apply comment sense logic to.....

Gumps:

Who cares?

Obviously you did when you failed substantiate your statement.

This is not working right for I have tried over and over to vote for Watchman 48 for I know he knows what he's taking about. Must be that it only works for those who make fun of God Huh? Its OK for it says he laughs at them too on his day. And how can it be the world 40 minutes old and your typing on the computer? The light's are on and no one home!!! See ya ha-ha ha!!!

Ignore Gumps. He never got back to me with his proof. I think maybe he's confused on who the ignorant one is here?

As for me, I was arguing that not everyone believes what he **says** they believe. I'm not picking a sect - I'm arguing that there are different sects.

And Songbird... wow. I think maybe the lights aren't on for you. Derrrr. Now, we could get into it over whether time as we perceive it truly exists, but I think your brain would melt. Suffice to say, I don't think the world is 40 minutes old (note my comments about reading comprehension), I was arguing that no one knows what time "the beginning" was. People are such idiots these days.

Remember everyone these are the people that watch ghost hunters and such......It must be a ghost....Not dust or a street light or electrical noise.....ohh how could it be...Must be a ghost...

Hey, those shows are pretty funny sometimes.

Unhappy I did tell you what my education level was, apparently reading or caring what you are reading doesn't occur to you. Also, you call anyone that doesn't believe in your imaginary friend uneducated. There are medications that can treat your delusions.

Jan: The fact that your college degree was not in science shows how little you know about it. So save your namecalling for someone else.

which was proposed by a religious Christian (Georges Lemaitre, a Jesuit-trained Roman Catholic priest from Belgium), the same man who, before Edwin Hubble, proposed that the universe is expanding and who derived what is commonly known as Hubble's Law and Hubble's Constant. But, being the well-educated scientist you are, you already knew all that, right?

Irtogg: Actually I did already know that. Did you know your "religious christian priest" was actually a secular priest, and therefore not recognized by the church( Roman Catholic)

As for the universe expanding, did you read that on Wikipedia? That is not new information....In fact, it is said that universes expand but yet they can be finite or infinte.

You really have said nothing about what makes up the big bang theory. Since you think you know so much why don't you go into discussing the Olber's paradox? I guess great scientific minds like yours would be up for the challenge. ( sarcastic)

Actually it is said that through the Big Bang Theory, the universe has a FINITE age. This incidentally concurrs with what christians and jews believed(story of creation) at the time of Aristotle, who believed the universe to be infinite.

what christians and jews believed(story of creation) at the time of Aristotle,

... ??

Aristotle (Ancient Greek, 384 BC – 322 BC), ... :-)

Beside her majesty Queen of England (not elected and not a real ruler over England) ... I can't picture any European president claiming " God blesses France", or "God blesses Findland" , nor even Italy or Belgium ! But I guess US bigots name us " old countries" ( ! ) US's speeches about religious matters versus politic is as middle-age's style than Taliban, Mormons, Evengelists or Hassidic jews... Keeping the people uneducated and yes, slaves in the hands of people having agendas ! Just good at throwing stones on whoever don't share their ways.

I like the sentence :

" Religion is like a penis, It is fine to have one, it is fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out and start waving it in public and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats "

For Rene278 - Gen 1:9-13 is the generally accepted verse that creationsists refer to when it comes to the biblical account of the creation of Earth:

Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into
one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. And God called the dry
land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw
that it was good. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that
yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose
seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so. And the earth brought forth
grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields
fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was
good. So the evening and the morning were the third day.

-QED-

Emmy, you make a good point. But I ask that you not lump all of us in with these Evangelical nut jobs. There are a few of us in America who do not buy into the "Opiate of the Masses" nonsense. Of course in America if you do not buy into the Evangelical rhetoric you are un-American and ostracized by these crazy zealous bigots.

So you are Doctor Broun, a scientist. Great. Please answer this question. If God created everything, then what or whom created God? Faith! The spin keeps going forever. Discoveries: Carbon dating allowed humans to find organism on this planet older than us. People such as yourself, thrive for power. Therefore, since reasoning, books where developed and perfected by people such as yourself, to control tribes and nations in order to win wars. There are a lot of good suggestions in the bible, Koran and other books that lead to a happy life style. However, there is also a lot of nonsense in those same book that with good 21st century know how -most people should filter out, but extremist don't.

and a big reason to keep people like him away from legislative power. He can say what he wants, just keep it out of our laws.