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UCLA Professor Jared Diamond has studied traditional cultures for decades, laying out his findings in the Pulitzer Prize-winning book "Guns, Germs and Steel" as well as "Collapse" and his just-published volume, "The World Until Yesterday."
In the wake of a high-wire "fiscal cliff" performance that wasn't exactly their finest hour, members of Congress would do well to learn a lesson from the tribes of New Guinea and the Amazon: Listen to your elders. At least that's the lesson passed along by UCLA Professor Jared Diamond, the author of "The World Until Yesterday: What Can We Learn From Traditional Societies?"
Diamond documented the reasons why European invaders overwhelmed less technologically advanced cultures in his Pulitzer Prize-winning book, "Guns, Germs and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies." He laid out cautionary tales of social breakdown in the follow-up book, "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed." In his newly published book, Diamond draws upon his decades of research in far-flung locales to lay out lessons for us less traditional types.
"Tribes constitute thousands of natural experiments in how to run a human society," he told a capacity crowd Thursday night during the kickoff of his international book tour at Town Hall Seattle.
Diamond says the useful findings from those experiments run a wide gamut, from the benefits of multilingualism to the right way to carry a baby ("vertically upright, facing forward"). But one of his biggest themes has to do with the way older people are treated, or mistreated. He noted that a Fijian friend was shocked to see how often America's senior citizens are shunted aside by the younger generation. And although some traditional societies have their own quirks about dealing with the aged — for example, strangling them when they become a liability — Diamond agrees that American attitudes need an adjustment.
Penguin
"The World Until Yesterday" is the latest book from Jared Diamond, a geography professor at UCLA.
"The lives of the elderly constitute a disaster area of modern American society," the 75-year-old Diamond said in Seattle. "We can do better."
He'd like to see senior citizens restored to the roles they have always held in traditional societies, but in a modern-day context: for example, as baby-sitters in a world where both parents work, or as fonts for the kind of wisdom you can't get through a Web search. He'd even like to see age given more respect on Capitol Hill, where the median age is 57 in the House and 62 in the Senate. That was the theme of my interview with Diamond on Thursday. Here's an edited version of the Q&A:
Cosmic Log: How would traditional societies deal with something like the fiscal cliff? What advice can you give to Congress for dealing with the kind of gridlock that we've seen?
Diamond: "The unrealistic answer is to say that the only senators and House members who are permitted to vote on fiscal-cliff issues are those who are over the age of 70. That's not realistic. But the realistic idea is to say that we should give disproportionate weight to the opinions of older politicians who have experienced a much wider range of financial conditions than have the young members of Congress. That is to say, we should listen to people who have gone through the Great Depression, the bubbles of the '80s, the soaring interest rates of the '70s. They've seen a variety of conditions, whereas younger people have seen only recent conditions, and they don't realize that things can be different. That's what comes out of traditional societies.
"Most traditional peoples talk about 'tribal elders.' The reality is that the leaders of traditional peoples are always the older people. And the reason is, it's good. They have lots of lifetime experience under very different conditions.
"The same also applies to modern societies: Sometimes I'm asked to talk to hedge-fund groups. I'm struck by the fact that most of the people are in their 20s or 30s. There may be a few people in their 40s, and maybe a couple in their 50s. When you look at the statistics, about half of all hedge funds fail within the first five years, although many of them do spectacularly well for a couple of years. The reason is, the whiz kids are very good at algorithms that make money under good conditions. But they don't realize that conditions can be very different, that there are tough conditions — soaring interest rates, financial setbacks. So they don't have the long perspective. That's an example of how a long perspective is necessary for financial policy, just as it is for governing, for deciding about war and peace."
Q: Is there any institutional reform that can do that, or is it beyond modern society to get back to those ways?
A: "It's not beyond modern society, because if you look around at different modern societies — and I'm talking about rich industrial societies — some of them give a lot more deference and weight to older people than do others. The United States is an extreme in this respect. We are perhaps the modern rich society that has the biggest cult of youth. For example, when was the last time you saw a commercial with an 83-year-old raising a bottle of Coca-Cola? The Coke ads are all about 25-year-olds. That's our cult of youth. But in Europe, there is much more deference given to older people. In China, even more. In Japan, too, and in Mexico and Italy. So there's an area where the United States, in its own self-interest, can learn from the experience of its older people."
Q: I'm struck by one of the comments that a House Republican made during the fiscal-cliff deliberations, complaining about the "sleep-deprived octogenarians" in the Senate. ...
A: "Sure, but the octogenarians have had 80 years to see the advantages of taxes. Taxes are an investment, they're not money taken away from you. They're your own money that's being used for long-term purposes. Our taxes are paying for roads, they're paying for schools, they're paying for armed forces, they're paying for inspectors, they're paying for regulators. The more we put in, the more we get out. Now, this is not to deny that every government wastes some tax money. Nobody has figured out how to spend taxes in a way that there's no waste. But the basic mindset is that taxes bring benefits. The longer you live, the more you see those benefits."
Q: Is there an analog to taxation that has worked for traditional societies?
A: "There is, but it's not until you get to medium-to-large societies. Small traditional societies of a few dozen to a few hundred people really don't have anything like taxation. Once you get to a society of a few thousand people, where there's a chief — big enough that you can't have a face-to-face discussion, but you've got to have a chief — chiefs practice an early form of taxation. They require that the commoners turn over a fraction of their agricultural products to the chief. Part of that is used to support their own lifestyle, and part of that is also held in reserve to redistribute to the commoners in a time of famine. One could say that that's a precursor to state government taxation."
Q: Are there other things on your short list of lessons that could help break the societal gridlock we see today?
A: "Another whole area that's open for discussion is the area of conflict resolution. The American system of conflict resolution in the courts is a system of determining right and wrong, with winners and losers. But in traditional societies, conflict resolution has a different goal. The goal is to achieve and maintain peace between people who are going to have to deal with each other for the rest of their lives. The society is small, so you know everybody. In the United States, a big society, if you have a traffic accident, the other person is likely to be someone you never saw before and will never see again. So who cares whether they're unhappy with the result? But the reality is that anybody who's been involved with the American civil or criminal justice system knows that its goal is not to achieve reconciliation. And the result is emotional agony, often for the rest of one's life.
"It's particularly sad when that agony involves divorcing spouses, or so often it involves brothers and sisters, or parents and children who end up suing each other in inheritance disputes. That's because when you use courts and lawyers, the goal is not to achieve emotional clearance, but the goal is to decide right and wrong. That is another big subject area we could happily talk about for a few hours."
Q: Another big subject area would be how to deal with the emotional scars left by the string of mass shootings we've seen lately. Are there any lessons that can be drawn from traditional societies addressing that issue?
A: "My one-liner there would be the balance between individual interests and communal interests. The United States' laws provide that if an individual wants a gun, that individual is going to have a gun, even if that is bad for society as a whole. Today I'm talking from Seattle, which is 100 miles from the Canadian border. Here we have a neighbor that is as affluent as the United States, but has a different balance — with much more emphasis on communal interests and much less interest on individual rights. Among other things, Canadians do not feel that everybody should exercise their God-given right to carry a gun."
Think there's enough in what Diamond says to get a discussion going? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.
More from Jared Diamond:
- Bilingualism is good for the brain
- Why the Navajo have thrived
- How to prevent a pandemic
- Video: Corporations vs. collapse
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. To keep up with Cosmic Log as well as NBCNews.com's other stories about science and space, sign up for the Tech & Science newsletter, delivered to your email in-box every weekday. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
Leave a Comment:
Great read Alan .
Funny a bit too .
Reminds me of all the health and fitness commercials with only young and should be fit anyway people in them .
Hope all your holidays were great .
Bee well always .
I'll never forget the day my 35-year-old son told me he didn't need my advice. I tried to explain that advice was like a book or a movie, he could throw it away or ignore it but just listening or watching might implant something useful in his mind later on, a win/win use of time. But no. He covered his ears and walked away.
His mother and I moaned with despair when he announced he had proposed to his much older roommate who we knew was seducing him in her last desperate chance to avoid being an old maid. There wouldn't have been a problem if she weren't so frighteningly uneducated. For example, she thought France was in England, didn't know any authors nor multiplication tables. She knew a few movie stars but couldn't spell their names. She wasn't even pretty. We figured it was because he was too lazy or too busy to look for a better love partner.
Of course, with the ring on her finger, we saw her true personality and since the birth of their son, we cannot visit their house because of her relentless yelling every night. The 6-year-old knows she is still uneducated and her commands are ridiculous so they are constantly battling.
Our son used to be a joking, laughing, happy guy but now he is distancing himself by working on 2-week gigs away from home. The future looks grim but we keep our mouths shut. He'll have to ask for our advice when he wants it. Too bad. We are sure we could gently and carefully suggest ways to bring calm to their household.
Being an "Elder," I couldn't agree more. If my son had listened, he wouldn't have lost his home to a debt caused foreclosure. He wouldn't have had a dozen or more credit cards between him and his wife. He would be enjoying the benefits of his paycheck instead of budgeting to keep food in his house.
My second son at least listens. Maybe he doesn't use the advice, but he listens.
I can't count the times that I wished my father had lived longer. I really wanted his advice so many times.
I have a good life, and I got where I am by listening to and learning from my parents and in-laws. There's no need to learn lessons the hard way. Why repeat mistakes? There's plenty of opportunities to make new ones!
Jared Diamond has an unrealistic confidence in his interpretations of societies, which is bolstered by the academics he interacts with... i.e., he lives in a liberal echo chamber.
Spoken like someone who didn't like what he read. It's human nature to reject thoughts that conflict with our own, but that doesn't lead to growth.
The "echo chamber" comment is simply hilarious considering the outcome of the last presidential election compared to the Republicans expected overwhelming victory. And that whole polling nonsense they went through. Indeed, they lost the popular vote in both houses and for the presidency and yet still don't understand they need to seek information outside their own click.
The real problem with Diamond is he seems to believe that Republicans are rational. They are not and the recent election and last two "fiscal cliff" hostage takings should prove it to anyone who is paying attention. They simply don't care about the poor or the "47 percent". Was diamond not paying attention to the election? Finally, republicans don't mind taxes, as long as it's not them or their keepers paying them.
So we the people of the U.S.A should deal with an Invasion the same way that other societies did. Instead of giving them amnesty, (Reagan , Obama*) we should send them packing. or bury them in the desert.
We have enough Liberal Cowards in this country, and we do not need any Foreign Cowards who are too Chicken to fight for freedom in their own countrys.
Besides, it would be good for our economy to eliminate the insurgents.
spoken like a true nazi, 'iamnotyou'
Regarding Stan: Diamond has spent much of his life amongst people who have fundamentally different ways of life. We're talking hunter gatherers. In what way is that an 'echo chamber'? You say he talks like a liberal who never learned any opinion but those of academics, but have you ever lived and worked in a different form of society? Can you speak any language other than English? Do you read books depending on whether the author is republican or not?
I could say "Your comment is spoken like someone whose ideas are tainted by the conservatives that you live with, who has never learned to accept an opposing viewpoint.", but that would be petty.
The flaw in trying to apply his observations to the US is that he observed societies where all the people were of one homogeneous blend. They had the same background and traditions and were conditioned through their heritage to arrive at compromising solutions to life.
That same type of society existed with the Native Americans here before the Europeans came.
You can't have what he is advocating when you insist on a melting pot.
how can i find myself on such a learned site without some realizing ,things are not as they have told you all along,recent discoveries off the so. coast of india show 5sq.miles of city in 200ft.with carbon dating of artifacs recovered ,30,000yrs.robert ballard has rec. found a village 170ft below the waters of the medit.eranien.even the spinx of egypt ,has been determind by obvious water erosion to pre,date the pyramid s,by pos.10,000yrs.countless current excavations around the world are destroing the myth ,that darwinian theory was correct.the missing link ,is a falicy ,by those that cant or chose not to see,mankind has pre,dated all your current beliefs.the missing link can only be ,by inteligent design.or are you going to say,move along ,nothing to see here.open your eyes.
Yes, the "sleep-deprived octogenarians" comment turned out to be funny, because that guy and his colleagues did end up voting on, and passing, the bill created by those SDO's.
Fascinating article. I think we should all respect and listen to our elders more. I grew up in New England where they practice democracy at the base level; in the town halls on meeting day. If you want to vote, talk to the candidates, discuss issues with each other, that's where it's done. There use to be some rousingly loud debates over issues, but by the end of the day they were resolved and the best solutions were voted on. I'm sure it's still that way in small communities, but most of us live in urban and suburban areas where we don't even know our neighbors very well. We fill out our absentee ballot, and don't have the opportunity to share our opinions with other people in or community. Sad times for a democratic society.
It is reasonable to assume that the 47% are people who cannot even speak or understand English.
Blind voters who vote along the party lines even when it is not by specific candidate.
It was nice of Congresswoman Gwen Moore's son to flatten the tires on Republican vehicles so that his Comunist mother could win the election.
The same election in which Obama* got a $375,000.00 fine for concealing out of country campaign contributions. Including 2 million from an Iranian In Iran that has not been returned as ordered, $400,000.00 from a chinese political group In China.
Hitler was a Democrat too. People were stupid enough to vote for him too, and look what happened.
Yeah. Because Hitler -loved- the minorities. If Obama=Hitler then why hasn't he locked up all his political enemies in concentration camps? It'd sure be simpler for him.
Wow, only comment number 5 and we've already triggered Godwin's Law. The discussion is over.
Still can't get over that you are your ilk lost the election can you? So, let's just keep slinging mud and calling people names.
Your party and their stale ideas lost...get over it.
IAmNotYou your comment abour blind voters is offensive, since I am a blind voter, legally blind from retinopathy. BTW I do not vote along party lines. I research candidates and attend speeches when they are within my transportation and financial menas. Let me say we as a country need to return to listening to and respecting our elders. I spent 20 years in IT and 4 in the classroom. Our chilren are raised to show no respect for those in authority and supported in their actions by parents. We as adults need to show respect for those in authority and expect them to toe the line. I'm sorry the senator with the DUI should be recalled or at least censured. What type of role model is he presenting?
"god! Look at all those communists and their Nazi ways..." Seriously, do you even understand what you wrote? Those two were mortal enemies... Stalin and his ilk were far left, and Hitler was far right... each side has an atrocious side that can be quite menacing, this idea that only one side all the ills in the world and cheats for every victory is so fox "news"worthy.
"Oh no! I am such a victim because they are evil and want to kill everyone else in the world and I am the lone hero to stand up against them! Can't you see? My viewpoints can't possibly be even slightly in error because the other side is every bad thing ever in existence! That will surely change your mind and make you choose to side with me as I yell at you for having your viewpoints because your also evil"
/\Quite sick of that Faux reasoning, the war on christmas, the war on gun owners, the destruction of our free speech (which I have yet to see... considering you are here speaking and fox is still on the air)... pitiful
I'm one of those "fortyseven percenters". A retiree after 46 yrs in manufacturing. Thanks to the GOP passing on the theft of our retirement accounts, and bailing out the thieves, I and many other depend on the system we worked so hard to avoid. Add in most veterans, who only offered their lives for the country. IAmNotYou, I am damn glad I'm not you, to have such a low opinion of your neighbors.
Iamnotyou: (and boy howdy, I am very, very glad that I personally am not you, because I'd just cut my throat and do the world a favor) I only have one piece of advice for you and the rest of the critically-thinking-deficient low-information-voters that think as you do. Turn the TV off and try to spend one day without having your brain controlled by the propagandists at Faux "news." Granted, they are still making money hand over fist, brainwashing frightened, bigot-filled, hate-mongering old white people like I assume you are. However, that screaming, ridiculous portion of the populace looks more ridiculous and stupid every day that the world moves away from them. That man in the White House whose "policies" have been destroying the country for the last four years and are still doing so is still governing, and by god, he even has some republicans working with him, will wonders never cease. And every time I ask a Pee Tartier or a fox-bot just which "policies" of the President's are so badly destroying the county, I always get a rant of barely coherent garbage with words like 'liberal,' 'socialist,' 'communist,' and such out of the mouths of people who then are completely incapable of givng cogent definitions to any of those words and I realize two things: The first is that there is only ONE policy of the President's that fox and the right-wing fanatics have their knickers in a knot over, and it is his policy of being President of the United States while simultaneously having black, or at least not 100% Caucasian, skin. That's it. Nothing else.
The article was interesting. The comments I have read here show most people are so entrenched in their own vision of "reality" they can not see other possibilities exist. If you can not accept that the possibility that someone besides yourself conceived of better ways for humanity to grow you will not make changes needed for that growth. The unopened mind will be the death of our civilization, if not our entire species.
The planned destruction of the family and communities that is the democratic,socialist, communistic way the U.S. is being led down the Roman road to destruction.Polticians only want power and then feed on others for more power and sell their souls for more power.
your tin foil is on too tight...
I believe we all have something to contribute to our country, regardless of age. I have 5 children, 9 grandchildren & 11 great grandchildren. Everyone one of them has taught me something. As for what I have taught them, I can not tell you. They would have to be the ones to do that. I can say that I feel very fortunate to have children who treat me w/ respect & do listen to my life experiences, where they can learn from them. I think my 48 year old son put it the best the other day. He said he has finally figured out that parents are not the enemy. We would be a stronger country if we took better care of our elderly. There is much we could learn. I recognized that as a small child.
Before I retired, I was a professional who worked mostly w/ people 18 to 30 years old. It always amazed me that THEY would not stand for being "dissed" , disrespected, but did not give a thought to respecting others. I think perhaps this is now very common among our youth. The elderly are in their way. Very sad. As for commercials, etc. Those people advertise what they can sell. For them it is all about money or should I say greed.
Sales and marketing always focus on the young because thay want you latch on onto there products at a early age to be a customer for life, the more mature are smarter many times in these decisions and typically are more frugal in purchasing.
I take issue with the entire article. While congress may not actually be a group of "sleep-deprived octogenarians", the current average age of the senate is 60.
While Alan can wax philosophically about how terrible we treat our aged, the truth of the matter is that 'An Elder' in the societies he observed is more like 40... If they are lucky.
His point seems more along the lines of 'If we only run our country they way they run their tribes'... the problem with that is the tribe still hunts it food every day, bathes in the river, and wears salvaged clothing that even Goodwill could not sell. On, and by the way... Your grandkids end up on UNICEF commercials with flys in their eyes while dad is in the background of the picture shooting off his AK-47...
My father just turned 65, (Well in the norm for the Senate), and I won't let him use the remote control anymore. He usually turns on the Playboy channel and freaks out my kids.
To make a case that 'elders' make better leaders is a more of a window into Alan's "White Man Guilt" than a true statement of who can better run a country of 350 Million people.
Basically put, we are already letting our elders run things in this country, and they keep "Using the Clicker" to steer us back to the "boobie" channel...
Perhaps that's because the "boobie channel" is nearly the only honest content left in the TV spectrum?
But seriously, the general tendency of disrespect toward senior citizens is as real as it is misguided and serious. Despite clear laws on the books, age discrimination in employment is rampant and widespread. The short sighted younger generation is all ready to throw us under the bus for the sake of a few dollars, walking away from a social contract generations old.
I'm fortunate enough to have found a few good niches, both professionally and in volunteer work, where this self-defeating attitude is minimal, but one need not go very far to find it in our culture at large.
"White man's guilt?" Really? Wouldn't that be more like 'Young man's guilt' or something? Sounds like you've got a little 'racist man's guilt' you're trying to rationalize away.
Many companies like to hire younger unmarried to insure the most work hours at least pay for greatest return. Long term company employees primarily become liabilities on the book due to time off and heatlh issues and are weeded out through re-orgaizations and such to save money and insure the most work hours at the least amount of wages paid it isn't rocket science its business($$$) and its also bad ethics. It all about profits(Efficiency) and at some point they find ways to dispose of most. Most laws are geared towards businesses.
"Perhaps that's because the "boobie channel" is nearly the only honest content left in the TV spectrum?"
Really??? Wow, I forgot you can buy those..
Joker .... it's not just bad ethics, it's also bad business. The mentality you describe is just fine for rapacious vultures like ol' Myth Robme, but it has over time contributed terribly to the weakness of our economy on the world stage.
These young'uns think they know a lot more than they actually know, and, at least in the R&D game, experience counts and should be given more weight than we typically see.
reterry makes a good point, our economics are played out by a bunch of children that jump up and down and buck each other over for the win, they ransack each other and don't bring the community up... its an old thought exercise with money, each of you have some and you can work together and all gain or you can buck everyone else over and gain the most... maybe...
We had a bunch of investors and hedge fund managers (noted they faze out fast and young) bucking over anyone and anything to get a buck and take the whole prize... then those who won keep trying to win more and push for taxes and laws that let them keep getting more and more... then those few that supported them and their ways sit poor and destitute wondering how they didn't get all the winnings... not everyone can win, and the United States is competing with itself at almost all turns...
It's so true that many people are focused on "This is the way it is now, I want to change it."
History isn't all that interesting to most people until they get older. So many bad ideas could be avoided if we'd look at history more.
Do you really think that we are coming up with new ideas in government? Do you really think that over the last five thousand years that we haven't had hundreds of monarchies, dictatorships, democracies, republics, socialistic, communistic, fascist, and every combination of those forms of governments?
Almost every form of government lasts for a while. The problem is, you can't make all of the people happy, all of the time. Over time, some people get ahead while others get behind. Those that get left behind want change, while those ahead want things to stay the same.
No form of government has been able to withstand the changing dynamic of its people, and ours will be no different in the long run.
"On the basis of his study of the world's great civilizations, the historian Toynbee concluded that a society's quality and durability can best be measured 'by the respect and care given its elderly citizens.'" -- John F Kennedy
The upcoming debate about the debt ceiling and spending cuts will directly relate to how we treat our elderly. The vast majority of the discretionary spending -- federal spending that could possibly be cut -- falls into only two categories: (1) Spending on defense and (2) Spending on the elderly. All the rest is pocket change compared to those two, and the federal budget will never come close to being balanced without addressing those two elephants in the room.
You've all read or heard that we spend more on defense than the next 10 wealthiest countries combined, and you've also read or heard about the staggering unfunded liability that Medicare represents -- somewhere near 100 trillion dollars over the next several decades. People live longer today, and that trend will continue as advances in medicine push average life expectancy even higher.
We collectively, through our representatives, have already decided that we don't want to pay for all this defense spending and spending on the elderly. The Bush tax cuts have now been made permanent for all but the very wealthiest Americans.
So what will our representatives decide to cut, this year and in years to come? Will we sacrifice some of our military capabilities to better take care of our elderly? Will we cast our elderly aside, condemn them to poverty, or decide that we simply cannot afford to prolong their lives, even when the medical technology exists to do so? Even if we make deep cuts to both defense spending and elderly spending, will it be enough to prevent our nation from collapsing under a mountain of debt?
These are tough questions that are only going to get tougher as more boomers retire over the next 2 decades, and sadly, I do not believe any of our leaders from either party have the courage to bring these questions to the table, to discuss possible solutions and to discuss the horribly painful trade-offs that our society faces in how we will deal with our elderly, to what degree we can afford to take care of them, and to what degree we decide that it would be better if they simply died at a younger age and relieved us of their costly burden.
Medicare is not just spending on the elderly. Social Security is, and that is simply repaying part of the money all the elderly have contributed over their working lives.
Provide inexpensive medical care and half the population suddenly has the obesity gene, or a cough, or a back ache. Take away that and just as suddenly they manage to get by without medical attention.
National expenditures and savings decided by the already well-paid Congress will never be distributed fairly and efficiently, the temptation is too great. If someone dumped a billion dollars on my table to count, I would always be thinking how I could get some of it stick to my fingers.
We'd be better off if a computer handled the treasury budget.
Well put but it creates a false choice, guns or butter if remember my high school economics correctly. Both defense and social welfare programs need to be reviewed and revised. Tax loopholes need to be identified and eliminated. Waste and fraud need to be attacked aggressively. Our public infrastructure (education, transportation, support services, research) need to be maintained and improved. We have lots of needs that require an effective, collaborative government to debate and decide. We need spending. We need investment. We need revenue. We need representatives not held hostage by idealogues and special interest groups and money. To me, respect for elders equates to a knowledge of and respect for the lessons of history. A lesson we seem not to have learned.
When societies fail to treat the elderly in their society with dignity and respect that is a warning that social collapse is on its way. When societies fail to treat the most vulnerable in their society (whether it be the old or very young, the poor, etc.) it is a clear sign that the society is failing.
America's demise can be found in the decline of respect and compassion for one another.
Interesting article . Up until the point of Younger folks being more respectful . They learned this from where ? Their parents maybe ??? Kids today reflect their parents as most of Americans today are very selfish arrogant egotistical and have no compassion for any one else than themselves . Look in the papers every day and see how many times people blame everything and everyone else for things instead of them selves ??? No one takes responsibility for anything governing their lives today ! Catholics are being crucified IE sex scandal so now the Catholic church is no good Athiest battling to get god and religion out of society . Video games showing games like Kindergarten killers and backed up by the 1st amendment ... Need we go on ? A lot of people say one thing mean another or just plain don't care !!
"how many times people blame everything and everyone else for things instead of them selves ???" -- so are you saying the poor themselves are personally to blame for their own poverty and NObody else is? If so, then are you saying they shouldn't be helped/should receive less help? If so, how does that jibe with having "compassiong for anyone else than oneself"? Compassion should motivate us to Help OTHERs.
Interesting read - But I feel the main focus in our government is there own self-interest primarily and that is swayed by big business, Profits and $$$. Most everything else falls to the side. I generally agree with the description about the elderly in America.
Congress actually could learn a lot from a lot of different sources. Unfortunately, nobody in Congress listens to anyone outside their insulated, isolated little special inner circle -- unless they have plenty of money to offer. But that's not learning. It's taking orders.
If we took the advice to give more weight to older folks, I guess Obama wouldn't be President. I do think he was a bit wet behind the ears during his first term.
I prefer the concept of individual rights over communal rights. However, in the U.S., we want it both ways. Individual rights when it's convenient for us, but communal support when things get tough. It's truly hard to have things both ways, which is part of the ongoing conflict in D.C.
Yeah, I immediately believed BO was immature and would fall prey to too much inner circle advice. Obviously it was H. Clinton who pressured him on the whole health reform.
Funny how the country thought Dr Paul was just a ridiculous old fart. He wasn't/isn't a fool, just using his life experiences to evaluate the big picture which no one does these days.
The tribal elders that developed the processor and computer you are using to post here and blog away nonsense is a true sign of progress.
There's way too much common sense in the article for many Americans to understand. We all need to take and learn from a good course in Anthropology.
I'm pretty sure I am older than "UCLA Professor Jared Diamond".
Why are you presenting that left-wing liberal as someone that knows anything about wisdom concerning financial matters?
The fact is that our country needs to be morally outraged for each and every foreign-owned dollar of our National Debt. It matters not whether it is a lack of revenue or too much spending. The deeper we go into debt to foreign countries the further away we go from our heritage.
Our "American Dream" is being perverted each time our President opens his mouth. I want every one of our citizens to do a little better than their parents. Over the last five years the middle-class has been destroyed in that goal. I can no longer say I am doing better than my parents did. I doubt I'll ever get back to their level. We have placed a burden upon our children and grandchildren that is simply criminal.
This is a repugnant article.
It doesn't matter if an old person or a young person proposes an idea in government if that idea is anti-thetical to the Constitution.
Leftist pigs just don't understand this concept - The Constitution is MEANT to make it HARDER to do things on the Federal level. The Feds were given only a small amount of power and the rest was left to the states. Experiments in gay flippy floppy marriage, mandated health care, killing babies of slut mothers, and race-based preferences to elevate lazy minorities above all others should be left to the states to implement.
Leftist pigs don't understand that if you want to change the Federal intervention levels then you must AMEND the document, not whore it and subvert it like an enemy of the state by passing laws that have no reality toward what Congress' power should be.
There is no need to compromise if one party ignores the Constitution in what they do. However your heart bleeds does not give you the right or the authority to pass legislation to force others to do anything. You leftists are truly nazi-like - you force and compel others to do as you want through legislation and then you use the media to spin your propaganda like Goebbels. There is simply no need for leftists and they are useless pieces of human debris.
It would be one thing to debate policies to help those who are physically and mentally unable to help themselves, but when the only disability of the person is circumstance, that doesn't give any pathetic leftist pig the right to compel others to take care of the lazy and unmotivated.
spoken like a true Reich Wing porker, I'd say.
All this Ayn Randy crap is just a childish excuse for narrow minded meanness.
It seems a good many of our younger generations in America live in that "escapist constant entertainment" world which flows from the latest electronic gadget - whether it be TV, Movies, Tablets, Pads, Phones, etc. I see and hear very little meaningful face to face discussion amongst members of these generations - neither within their own tribe(s), nor across tribal borders with the pre-middle aged, nor the middle aged, nor the elderly. Widsom in this world does not come cheap, nor easily. Wisdom does not change based on the whim of latest electronic gadget. I have met some wise youngsters, and I have met some stupid middle agers. I truly have not met many stupid elderly. Perhaps not quick, nor current - but not stupid. I have met a number of truly stupid in the post teen to mid adult category. No reading skills, no mathematical skills, no reasoning skills, and no thinking skils. Unfortunately many in these categories are trying to have famiies - and that does not bode well for Americas future. America will be out of "smart" long before it is out of money.
"No reading skills, no mathematical skills, no reasoning skills, and no thinking skils." So how do you propose to GAIN those skills, more importantly, how do you propose to get them taught to ALL? Make EVERYone educated, or at least 90-95% of people?
EDIT: "So how do you propose to GAIN those skills" -> "So how do you propose someone should GAIN those skills"
Lets not forget that as a "tribe" the US is very very young. Our form of government didn't evolve over millenia so much as was recently designed by a few smart folks using untested ideals. We have a ways to go before we figure out what works well. Our system certainly isn't perfect. We need to be open to changes, tempered by conservative fears of change. We do need to look at other, more elder, countries for ideas rather than arrogantly insist that our way is always best, like youngsters often do.
The founding Fathers learned from history and they studied the governments of past history ,which is not done in schools anymore. And do you think todays politicians pay any attention to George Washington's farewell address that used to be read every year.
Respect your elders is a very old and sage piece of advise. There are always exceptions to sage pieces of advice. Like the past 20 years of old white males running politics. I like majority rule with full participation of the population, including owm, minorities, dumb people, gun people, religious people, rich and poor people, smart people and whatever else we have that is human. Corporations are excluded.
When My Son,s needed advice they came to Me and what I advised them made a difference.Older people are,nt born smarter,We make a lot of mistakes .But why should You make all the mistakes I made?My Younger Son said one day I should have been a Professor because He thinks I,m one of the smartest persons He,s learned from ,and I don,t think I,m that smart.You,re free to disagree,it,s a free country.But when You get to 65 think back and see if You still think that way.
20 years ago while traveling by train from Phila. to Charlotte, with my 4 year old twins, the train broke down. Between disembarking, waiting for another train, climbing back on the train, not one person, even though the conductor tried, got the elderly & myself on first. Even though there were plenty of able bodied young men, no one offered to help the older people or myself. It was everyone for themselves. On that day I thought how sad, manners are dead in America. We reap what we sow.
Yep, that is indeed the true tragedy, we have lost our generous gene. We used to have it and, I believe, it is still pretty strong in the gentle mid-west, but generally, we have become a bullying nation and the weak will definitely not inherit the earth because they're being trampled on every step of the way.