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Subscribe to RSSThis animation shows NASA's Orion spacecraft as it will appear on its Exploration Mission-1 in 2017, complete with a service module to be provided by the European Space Agency.
NASA and the European Space Agency have signed an agreement calling for the Europeans to provide the service module for the Orion space capsule, the U.S. space agency's crew vehicle for exploration beyond Earth orbit.
The hardware would provide the Orion with propulsion, power, thermal control and basic supplies such as water and breathable air. ESA said the design will be based on that of the ATV supply ships that are currently being sent to the International Space Station.
"ATV has proven itself on three flawless missions to the space station, and this agreement is further confirmation that Europe is building advanced, dependable spacecraft," Nico Dettmann, head of the ATV's production program, said in an ESA statement.
The Orion's first test flight is scheduled for 2014, using a test service module built by Lockheed Martin. That unmanned launch would send the Orion to an altitude of 3,600 miles (5,800 kilometers). The European-built service module would get its first in-space tryout along with the Orion capsule and heavy-lift Space Launch System rocket in 2017, during an unmanned test flight that would go around the moon and back.
"This is not a simple system," Orion program manager Mark Geyer said in a NASA statement. "ESA's contribution is going to be critical to the success of Orion's 2017 mission."
The first flight with astronauts aboard would follow a round-the-moon route in 2021, and ESA will provide components for that flight as well.
NASA's current exploration plan calls for the Orion-SLS system to send humans to a near-Earth asteroid in the mid-2020s, and to Mars and its moons in the 2030s. Meanwhile, the task of sending cargo and crew to the International Space Station would be left to commercial spaceship providers.
When the Orion-SLS program was unveiled in 2011, the development cost was estimated at $18 billion through 2017, and roughly that much more for the 2017-2022 time frame.
Under the NASA-ESA agreement, which was signed in December and announced on Wednesday, ESA will provide the design and the hardware for the Orion service module as part of its contribution to the International Space Station project. The BBC reported that without such a contribution, ESA would owe NASA $600 million for the 2017-2020 period.
"Space has long been a frontier for international cooperation as we explore," Dan Dumbacher, NASA's deputy associate administrator for exploration system development, said in the space agency's statement. "This latest chapter builds on NASA's excellent relationship with ESA as a partner in the International Space Station, and helps us move forward in our plans to send humans farther into space than we've ever been before."
Even though ESA will provide the service module, its propulsion system will make use of engines left over from NASA's space shuttle program.
Bill Gerstenmaier, director of spaceflight operations at NASA Headquarters, said the European contribution would help keep the Orion project on track for the 2017 and 2021 flights. "We shouldn't try to go look at what ESA's contributing and then try to subtract that out of our budget," he told reporters. "We're actually getting a better, more robust design by cooperating together."
He acknowledged that the agreement put the Europeans in the "critical path" for future U.S. space exploration.
"I'm a realist, and I know that this won't be easy," he said. "It's not 100 percent comfortable — but I'm never 100 percent comfortable."
More about Orion:
- Europeans decide to boost NASA's Orion
- Orion project on schedule for 2014 test flight
- The moon looms again as future destination
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. To keep up with Cosmic Log as well as NBCNews.com's other stories about science and space, sign up for the Tech & Science newsletter, delivered to your email in-box every weekday. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
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Why does it take so long to develop this stuff? If they can do an unmanned test flight in 2017, why does it take 4 more years for a manned flight to take place?
What's the hurry? Mars and the Moon aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
No, but with climate change, etc., we may be.
Building spacecraft - especially with new technologies - requires very careful design, manufacturing thousands of components, and test, test, test, and test again.
One does not launch a multi-billion dollar spacecraft without making damn sure all the bases have been covered.
Not to mention that technology changes so fast, who knows what advances will be made by then? Locking the designs into place right now for a flight that will take place four or eight years down the road might bypass innovations that could be utilized.
Then there is all that testing.... not to mention lawsuits by people who will claim their inventions and intellectual property was stolen.
The ultimate answer to the original question... "Why does it take so long to develop this stuff?" ...is simple,
They fly this humdinger in 2017. They get it back (hopefully). They analyze the data. After the data analysis period they tweak things and attempt to improve the design or fix any errors they find in the design.
If the plan were to simply reuse the capsule or use an identical copy of it, then the process could be sped up. But that would not be to the benefit of the process.
These things happen for a reason, and they take more time than you or I may like. But the end result is more efficient, safer, more reliable space craft that does what they are intended to do.
How about manufacturing the products in the United States? We've for some reason caught our self's in a trap. 1. We have minimum wage, workmans comp insurance, taxes and we're suppose to find more jobs for Americans when the chinese pay 1 dollar a day how is this going to happen?
How is the United States going to bring back jobs? Now our ace in the hole NASA! and there job's are going over seas too. I guess I'll keep the blinders on and let the other guy worry about it?
My two cents for the day
This is a joint venture and this module is the European space agencies contribution. Didn't you read the article?
Probably the largest factor in why NASA and civilian spaceflight hardware takes so long to develop is budget.
During the Apollo years, NASA had a singular focus, getting to the Moon. Today, NASA has literally hundreds of different missions going on any given point in time: http://www.nasa.gov/missions/current/index.html
During the Apollo years, NASA's annual budget was over $30+ billion, today it is half that (or 1/10th that in terms of % of GDP). Also note, lower budgets tend to also have a compounding effect on the length of projects.
...And as others have pointed out already, spaceflight requires extremely tight tolerances, margins and quality. Development of these capabilities require the highest abilities attainable in terms of science, math, engineering, and manufacturing. QA is done to the nth degree, because failure is absolutely not an option in manned spaceflight.
Anyone who tells you that it should be fast or easy, knows not of which he or she speaks!
NASA should change its name to NADA !
Mob, don't forget the Orion spacecraft will fly next year, 2014 on the EFT-1 mission (launched from a Delta IV). It's the whole shebang (with the SLS rocket/ATV service module/and Orion spacecraft) that doesn't fly until 2017.
And we are letting Europeans build this why?
If this is a joint venture, the Europeans can contribute $ and then share in the rewards. We need jobs.
@screminmimi
"Not to mention that technology changes so fast, who knows what advances will be made by then? Locking the designs into place right now for a flight that will take place four or eight years down the road might bypass innovations that could be utilized."
Thee will always be 'something new and cool' you could add. And nothing will ever get done (while still burning through funding!) if you wait for it.
It's called 'freezing the design.' (for the Shuttle, that was in 1972)
And that doesn't mean you can never fit new innovations into an existing design (over the years, Shuttles were upgraded with new avionics and other components...but the program didn't stay grounded while waiting for them, and a whole new round of studying how what interacts with what), but at some point somebody in charge has to say;
"This is it. This is what we're going to fly with. Once we know how well that works, we'll look at incremental improvements, but for God's sake, consider the design finished, and fly it!"
Why do people think we live in boxes? Whether this will be built in Europe or not is irrelevant. If jobs are produced in Europe, then they will have more money to spend, and some of that money will be spent in the U.S., which will create jobs. As jobs are created in the U.S. from that money, some of that money will be spent in Japan, which will create jobs. Some of Japan's money will be spent in Europe and the U.S., which will create more jobs, etc. etc.
We are a world economy. Get used to it.
Double post.
Because economics is hard, Tony.
We're "letting" the Europeans assist with this venture because it's a good idea to spread the technologies and responsibility for space exploration around. America probably has the resources to be Earth's lone pioneer into space, but that doesn't mean we have to be.
Contrary to popular belief, the Europeans have a pretty good space program. They don't need us any more than we need them, but it's good to work together.
Economics isn't that hard. There are just a lot of people that cannot look beyond their own noses.
So I'd like to think, but there were an awful lot of people who complain otherwise back in college.
Of course, a lack of understanding doesn't stop anyone from arguing about the topic...
WTF? Like we don't need jobs here in High Tech???? The US Govt should source NASA projects i the US. What does tis do to enhance our engineering and technical skills, which are a by product of designing and building these missions? Just another idiotic and short sided move by our Govt. Lets take our tax dollars and give them to Europe???
If you had bothered to actually read the article you would know that the service modules are not being paid for by NASA.
They are ESA provided hardware delivered to NASA in exchange for services rendered during the course of the ISS programme.
Rok Us is right. Say what you want about our government. But, just because ESA is building this particular service module doesn't mean NASA and the U.S.A. are not working on their own high tech stuff.
Mojave45, you seem to have missed the part about NASA basically getting this module design (600 million bucks) in lieu of payment for ISS services. That means we are basically getting this service module for free (kind of).
Yippie Ay Yay! Space Cooperation!
We need a LOT more space cooperation. (And we need to quit pulling out of our space commitments)
I got some real news for you but if I know your type you will not believe it, NASA never really accomplished anything, the moon landing was a fake and so is the Mars rover ! This nation is best at one thing and one thing alone, lying ! Yes we beat the Soviets with lies. People love lies and hate the truth. Sad but true.
Johny, you make me laugh :)
I"m sure the Soviets and China and France and all the other technologically advanced countries that hate or hated us were in on faking the Moon landings. Because if they were not in on it, they would have blown the lid off the lies a long time ago.
Naturally. Because if there's one thing that America and even our most bitter geopolitical rivals can get behind, it's falsely convincing the world that America actually accomplished something great and unprecedented.
Wait, that doesn't sound right...
So is the world's biggest debtor (an economic has-been/military superpower) paying for this thing?
Why are we always on the hook for providing the world's defense and spending trillions on scientific research, that the foreigners always seem to be the ones that benefit when it comes time to applying it towards real jobs producing real (non-defense) products?
Maybe the rest of the world doesn't want to be defended? (except Japan of course, we wrote their constitution prohibiting armed forces)
Rob- Seattle
Japan has over 400 fighters, many built by Boeing, as were thier new tankers.
Is Europe the world's biggest debtor? Because Europe are the ones footing this service module's bill. How did so many people miss that part of the article?
As for defending the world... Our politicians believe that it's in America's best interests to do that. So take your beef to where it belongs (Congress).
mob_barley: In answer to your question "How did so many people miss that part of the article?" Many people who visit this web site, and comment, demonstrate a lack of basic reading comprehension skills. Or they just assume...which brings to mind an old saying. :)
Putting aside that the basis of your point is incorrect, Biff, the reason is because America is awesome. No, no need to thank us, other countries. You just go ahead and profit from our magnanimous brilliance. We'll just keep on being awesome like before.
"Under the NASA-ESA agreement, which was signed in December and announced on Wednesday, ESA will provide the design and the hardware for the Orion service module as part of its contribution to the International Space Station project. The BBC reported that without such a contribution, ESA would owe NASA $600 million for the 2017-2020 period."
** Without taking it down to the Dick and Jane level, I don't know how much easier to understand that could be.
Maybe if you used sock puppets...
Maybe Dora the Explorer could expain it?
"Can you say 'space'?"... "Very good, you said 'space' and helped us get to orbit!"
sending more jobs out of the US good job pres kill our economy
Nobody, I repeat, NOBODY sent ANY jobs ANYWHERE in this deal. Did anyone read this article??!
The service module is based on the Europeans current ATV craft. Europeans already build the ATV. Those same Europeans will build the new service module. And the governments involved in ESA are footing the bill. NASA and America only stand to benefit. Why is that so hard for you to understand? This has nothing to do with the President OR jobs in America!
And the whine-parade continues...
Lovely... but, no thanks. Let SpaceX handle it... or some other outfit that doesn't mind keeping it American.
Yeah, cuz only America should be developing it's space industry.
Is that really what you're saying? Or did you miss that part where the article states that the Europeans are going to pay for this and build it with jobs that already exist over there. Seriously, where is the problem??
If the Europeans want to contribute, they can help pay for this and let the US build it, then they can see some rewards. We certainly have designs we could work off of.
Why should Europe give US money to accomplish our goals? America doesn't need foreign aid.
Especially from Europe. You think OUR economy is rough? Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain are threatening to shatter the Euro and they're sucking funds from all the stronger countries with more competent governments.
Try expanding beyond your simple "more work = more jobs" mindset. There really is more to the world (and even economics!) than that.
Orion is another Folie of the USA and NASA and the worst part though is this Folie unlike the Space Shuttle is being built by someone other than our own people who need High Tech Job's. Obama and congress are trying their best to make the USA a thrid world country totally dependent on other nations. We are going to lose our talent to other nations. Watching my country die is making me sick.
Don't forget to thank the Republicans for killing it. Even now, they're cheering for shutting down the government, and having our credit rating downgraded again.
Yeah Chris. That George Bush keeps not giving us a budget that would cut our defecit. He just can`t seem to be the leader we voted for can he???? That Democrat senate couldn`t possibly have anything to do with it could it???????? Another voter that seems to be a little misinformed but what could one expect considering all the lies he has been told.
You seem to be misinformed about who is actually doing what. But you're enjoying the lies you're being told, so why live in the real world.
Oh, and by the way, Barack Obama is the president, no matter how much you and your 18th century party try to behave otherwise.
Ihateliberals... the reason why the U.S. is losing its science, engineering and tech edge is because a lot of the states are eliminating essential scientific knowledge under the guise of religion. Kids in other countries study evolution and its processes from elementary school. In many U.S. states, evolution is not talked about. These kids don't learn about it until college at least, and even then they may not learn it well enough to entertain a career in science, engineering or math.
LaDolceVita1
learning evolution will not help us get to the moon. A big part of our schools decline in science and math is we teach all kids at the same level, that is at the pace of the slowest learners. We can't have a child fail now can we?
By the way, evolution is taught in all public schools, it's creationism that is being left behind, and I do believe in evolution.
Although I despise Creationism and Intelligent Design psuedo-science, you're completely wrong, LaDolce. Our education system is suffering, but it's not suffering from religiosity eating away at science. Nobody is having their biology courses replaced with bible study. I'm sure there are people who would LIKE to do that, but they lost. It's not happening.
Anyway, this discussion is asinine. Obama isn't trying to "destroy" anything, but blaming Republicans for America's current problems and completely absolving the Democrats who have been in power is absurd.
The country has problems, yeah. Stop expecting the government (of EITHER party) to solve it. Forgiving one or two failures is just being naieve, but after it's just kind of sad.
"Under the NASA-ESA agreement, which was signed in December and announced on Wednesday, ESA will provide the design and the hardware for the Orion service module as part of its contribution to the International Space Station project. The BBC reported that without such a contribution, ESA would owe NASA $600 million for the 2017-2020 period"
So we made a trade, goods for cash. Well done in reading comprehension commenters!
After all, it is an INTERNATIONAL space station.
Right. Let them pay the 600 miillion in cash and we build the service capsules here in the USA. Can you comprehend that?
Xtex, can you comprehend that it may cost more than $600 million and the ESA will be chipping in some more money on top of that? It's a great deal, we'll get more out of the deal than we'd be putting in if they just outright paid us. You know if we built it, it would cost a $1 billion or more.
Rob
We're not talking about the international space station.
Brain
Europe can send us the cash and let us build it, then they can share in the rewards. Even if there are cost over runs that money will go to US workers. The US jobs created by building it here would have created more jobs than any trillion dollar stimulus did.
And why should Europe have to do that, Johnny?
We are indeed going down the tubes as a nation. Just as Great Britain, despite all of its earler leadership in the British Interplanetary Society, was never able to muster the political will or public support to adequately fund Blue Streak, Black Arrow, or HOTOL, so the US is now going down the same route that will soon render it a second rate power in space on its way to eventually becoming a third rate space power.
And Stan...that would be just fine with the 1/3 of this country who are $hit-kickin', brain-addled, tea-baggin' religious nut jobs...and the other 1/3 who see us a resource to be exploited.
The 1/3 of us left over who are sane, caring, compassionate, intellectually curious and who can see beyond our next reload are hopelessly outnumbered...
Caligula
What's your point?
JohnnyOnTheSpot-3794903 - his point is obvious...oh never mind...
Man, all those "caring, compassionate" people sure are self-absorbed and condescending.
I don't mean to rain on your parade of looking down on others, but nobody who writes off 2/3 of the population as either idiots or villains is caring or compassionate, nor particularly intelligent. I can only hope that some day you can find the time and perspective to get over yourself and find out what those words actually mean.
As for Stan, your point is empty. Not that I really care about America's "space rankings" (any human progress in space is a positive thing as far as I'm concerned), but if America's not number one, then who will be?
I do not agree with many commenters. NASA has a lot of accomplishments over the years. Spacecraft is only a part of NASA's mission (e.g., research into space weather, the "Mission to Planet Earth", and many other examples), and an enormous number of spin-offs have benefited society. Not that there can't be improvement. Nevertheless, the US is still has the worlds premier space agency.
Absolutely. And cooperation with other space agencies, rather than desperately hoarding our technology like paranoid loons, can only benefit the advancement of space technology.
Space shouldn't just be an American venture. We can't do it alone! Let's get the entire planet on board so that we can get out into that big ol' galaxy!
NASA did have a lot of great accomplishments. Then they decided that 7 people weren't worth saving. I wouldn't put my life in their hands. Space-X sounds like the better bet to me. They will have to keep people alive if they want their company to survive.
NASA had an outstanding safety record when the Engineers were running it.
Once control shifted to the beancounters, MBAs and political appointees was when the whole thing started going down the toilet.
Why the hell is the wheel being reinvented? The basic technology for the rocket AND for the life support systems in the command module have NOT CHANGED since the 60's. Upgrades, in computing and fuel cells, etc, should be no more difficult than, say, putting glass cockpits in planes with steam gauges! As such, the "development" costs of such upgrades should be nowhere near the estimated costs.
The real problem is that, due to negligence and bureaucratic stupidity for the past 30 years (with the advent of the Shuttle) we cannot build either a Saturn booster or the Apollo command module today!
Of course we could, but who would want to? The Saturn was built for a single purpose, and that purpose was fulfilled, what, 44 years ago, more or less? You really would want to put our astronauts into ancient technology that still used vacuum tubes, for gods sake? Ressurrecting a dinosaur like that would be truly negligent and stupid. Personally, I would prefer the modern ride, not the Model T. And by the way, the Saturn would not be so cheap these days, either.
I'm interested to know what the engineers are going to do to protect the humans inside the Orion capsules once they get out beyond our moon. The high-energy particles and radiation from the sun, as well as that coming from space that's found between us and Mars - or an asteroid - can shred a person's DNA. The thin metal walls of a spacecraft are no match for having a thick, moist atmosphere and a huge protective planetary magnetic field. Unless they can address crew safety, keep sending out the robots.
You are correct, in my assessment (and most space weather scientists)... high-energy radiation past Earth's magnetosphere is a major engineering challenge.
It is a major technical obstacle. The Earth's magnetosphere does not extend to the Moon, btw, but in the Apollo missions, we were to the Moon and back within 9 days, and luckily, there were no major Solar storms, coronal mass ejections, etc.
But even without such solar events, exposure to lethal cosmic rays are a constant in space beyond the belts, and Mars has no magnetic field or magnetosphere, nor does the Moon. So again, protection from this hazard is a major technical obstacle to realistic manned space exploration and utilization. But we're working on it!
What US jobs? All you've got is a workforce based mostly on the service industry (working poor), lawyer/HR types and woman-studies majors. Look at major US companies such as Apple, Google, those that actually create value. The engineers, researchers, craftsmen who do the actual work are mostly immigrants or it's being outsourced. The thing is, these days they are choosing more and more to stay at home or go back after graduating from a US university.
I am speaking as someone who has lived in Germany, Norway and the US. Nowhere else have I seen the amount of stressed out, working poor, uninsured people that I have witnessed in the US. The only thing keeping the US populace sane is that they are emotional about the American dream. Objectively, they live in a @!$%#hole meat-grinder.
Google employs about 3,000 people. Not a whole lot in a country with a workforce of over 160 Million.
Incidentally, Twitter employs about 300 people, and IIRC, Facebook employs about the same amount as Google.
So much for the much-vaunted IT "jobs revolution".
Wow, way to project your personal experience on 300 million people, Chamade. "Objectively", you probably don't have to speak for anyone if they think their career is in a rut; people who are satisfied with their jobs (moi) won't identify with you and those who do don't need some whiny stranger on the Internet guessing that they're unhappy.
BTW, America still has one of the highest rates of engineering and science graduates in the world. China's is higher, but if you want to talk about "stressed out working poor", well...
The Moon is, and by logic ought to be, our next step, i.e., a permanent lunar base or bases, where we can test ourselves for long-duration manned missions to Mars and elsewhere. We have much to learn about long term living and working in cold, hostile space. The Moon is the best place to learn how to do this, all while still in view of warm, wet, oxygenated Mother Earth, our womb.
When (not if) our moon bases become self-sufficient, then, and only then, should we go off to Mars. A one-off dramatic manned mission to Mars would not only be a big waste of money for now, it would also be a huge gamble on the future of humans in space.
Why? Because we'd go to Mars, stay for a year, and then come back, show's over. "We did it!" Now what? I'll tell you what, we goof around in Low Earth Orbit for another 40 years, twiddling our thumbs about the next grand, dramatic feat and waste of money, as the public will once again lose interest.
We need a steady, long-term, logical, step-by-step program of establishing a permanent presence on the Moon. The Moon is close (roughly 200,000 miles), and if things go wrong, which they're bound to do when we humans are involved, we can easily send rescue teams, re-supply ships, etc. Not so with Mars.
Any realistic one-off Mars mission would have to be excessively redundant, with a backup lander, Mars orbital "Mother Station" for possible refuge, etc.
It just makes sense to go back to the Moon. It will be our testing ground and platform for sensibly going deeper into the Solar System. On a thread at Space.com (before they ruined their regular forums by going through Facebook), Buzz Aldrin said, "We've already been to the Moon. We need to go to Mars." The same, "been there, done that" attitude of our current president.
I replied to Buzz, (and say now to Obama) as Zen Galacticore, "No Buzz. YOU and 11 other guys have been to--and walked on-- the Moon. The rest of us watched it on TV."
The Moon is about the size of the Western Hemisphere wrapped up into a ball, and we've landed humans at six sites and sent rovers and other landers. In other words, we've hardly explored the Moon, and we have much still to do there.
We are very lucky to have a sizeable moon, and we probably wouldn't even exist without it. It is our natural platform for learning how to live in space, and will be our springboard for going farther and deeper into the Solar System, including Mars, the Asteroid Belt, and beyond.
To the Moon! It just makes sense!
This little diddy is to be sung to the tune of Neil Young`s Homegrown.....Outsource is a good thing, Outsource is the way it should be, Outsource is a good thing, build that thing and make us dumb....
Whats the point in spending all that money when Europe will probably be taken over by Muslims the way they keep pouring into Europe. France must be at least forty percent Muslim already.
I think it's more like 4% Muslim in France.
I'm sorry, I don't have enough spare intelligence to dilute the sheer amount of anti-intelligence in your assumption. All I can offer is that Muslims aren't going to take over Europe. They're just not. That is such a non-prospect that I can't even form a logical background to dispute it.
The humble beginnings of the Federation!
Live long and prosper.... \\\////
Haha ! Good one, we don't live in an Absolute Monarchy, but an Absolute Idiocracy>= )
why are we again outsourcing work? I guess Americans do not need the jobs this would provide Huh??
They have to build it overseas the U.S.s about broke and our credit rating is probably gonna take a hit ! Plus these jobs arn't shovel ready !
Why is Obama OUTSOURCING jobs?? hmmmmm???
What jobs is Obama outsourcing?
Not these jobs. These jobs already belong to the Europeans who currently work for ESA building their ATVs. Read the damn article.
Why can't it be built here in USA?
If you had bothered to read the article you'd realize that a test module, built by lockheed, will be flown unmanned in 2014. And if I'm not mistaken, Lockheed Martin will be building that module in the USA.
What is the problem? The Europeans are building a service module, based on their ATV design, using their labor, relying on their money, and NASA gets the benefits. Who loses on this deal again?
You should use cut & paste method, mob. Otherwise you might have a stroke or something repeating yourself over and over, lol. I'm beginning to wonder if people read anything at all, considering how many times this question has been asked and answered.
Cut and paste isn't as useful. People ask the same question in slightly different ways and so they deserve slightly different answers. And after all, if someone thinks I am insincere in my response then they will not pay it any mind. (they still may not pay it any mind, but at least I tried)
You're an inspiration to us all, mob. Don't let 'em get you down. Fight! Fight!
What happened to made in the USA????
If you want it made here, then start a company that builds these parts and make better ones than the Europeans, for cheaper.
The world DOES have concerns other than where a given thing is made, hard as that may be for you to believe.
So people don't really read the article they just interject political comments ... Is that how this works ?
Yes, apparently that is how this works.
*sigh
Deep breath, mob. Think happy thoughts.
JustaMutt, yeah, people can't help interjecting political and/or religious comments on a space article. It's a fact of life/Newvine.
Yup.
They usually don't come back either, so any rebuttal, answer, or explanation you give them is usually lost.
Such is the way of the Interwebz.
I've taken the last month plus off of posting because of burnout from constant responses to idiotic people who (from all appearances) never read the actual article being discussed but feel it is their US Constitutional/God-given/personal right to inject their personal and political opinion into every little segment of life.
Hey, Mudd, how've ya' been?
Much better after some great holiday time off. It wasn't a white Christmas, but it is never a white Christmas in Southern California (at least not at sea level). Then again, right now its sunny and mid 70's here, while a lot of other parts of the US have a lot worse weather.
Well, Christmas afternoon was white here in Dallas, from about 3 or 4 o'clock on. Not unheard of, but most unusual.
Glad to hear you had a good holiday. Hang on to those mid 70's.
What happened to made in USA?
Simple, replaced with MADE IN CHINA
What happened to reading comprehension...?