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A statue of St. Malachy of Armagh (1094-1148) stands on the grounds of St. Malachy Catholic Church in Sterling Heights, Mich. Centuries-old prophecies that have been attributed to St. Malachy are causing a stir due to Pope Benedict XVI's surprise abdication announcement.
Just when you thought it was safe to go out of the bunker, there's a fresh wave of doomsday buzz over a purported 12th-century prophecy suggesting that the next pope will be the last pope before the end of the world. St. Malachy's "Prophecy of the Popes" has no credence in the Roman Catholic Church, but its effect could well be longer-lasting than the hype that surrounded the 2012 Maya apocalypse — especially if the papal conclave goes with one of the favored candidates for Benedict XVI's successor.
The text that's been attributed to Malachy came to light in 1595, in a book by Benedictine monk Arnold de Wyon. Supposedly, Malachy experienced a vision of future popes during a trip to Rome in 1139, and wrote down a series of 112 cryptic phrases that described each pope in turn. The text was said to have lain unnoticed in Rome's archives until Wyon published it.
Doomsday fans have found ways to link each phrase to a corresponding pope through the centuries. That includes John Paul II, who is associated with phrase No. 110, "From the labor of the sun," because he was born on the day of a solar eclipse and was entombed on the day of a solar eclipse as well. Benedict XVI, No. 111, is supposedly "glory of the olive" because some members of a branch of the monastic order founded by St. Benedict are known as Olivetans.
Then there's No. 112: "In the extreme persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit ... Peter the Roman, who will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The end."
The end? This could be the beginning for a doomsday meme that hangs over a whole generation, if it's taken seriously. There's already a 586-page book about the coming apocalypse, titled "Petrus Romanus." One theologian, Michael K. Lake, is quoted as saying that "Catholic and evangelical scholars have dreaded this moment for centuries."
In fact, the Catholic Church doesn't put any stock in the prophecies, for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest red flags is that no mention was made about the papal prophecies until the 1590s — not even by St. Bernard of Clairvaux, a close friend of Malachy's who wrote his biography and hailed his gift of prophecy. And then there's always the biblical dictum that no one knows the day or the hour for doomsday — a rule of thumb that works for believers as well as non-believers.
Most experts have concluded that the text was made up to boost a 16th-century cardinal's bid to become pope.
But if the coming papal conclave really wanted to drum up the doomsday talk, as well as sales for "Petrus Romanus," all they'd have to do is elect one of the leading candidates: Ghanaian Cardinal Peter Turkson, a member of the Roman Curia. Even though church tradition would forbid any pope from taking the name Peter II, Turkson could arguably be described as Peter the Roman. Others suggest that he could be the "young red black one" mentioned in the similarly cryptic doomsday prophecies of Nostradamus.
Whomever the conclave picks, there'll surely be a way to connect him somehow with "Peter the Roman" — after all, isn't every pope a successor to St. Peter, based in Rome? "Any pope can be thought of as the latest Peter in the line," Tom Horn, one of the authors of "Petrus Romanus," said a couple of months ago on the "Coast to Coast AM" radio show.
Which means we might have to deal with 2012-style doomsaying as long as the next guy is in office. What do you think?
Dearly departed doomsdays:
- Asteroid Apophis won't hit us in 2036
- No gloom or doom as Maya begin new age
- Rapture 'fail' sparks fresh worries
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor. Connect with the Cosmic Log community by "liking" the log's Facebook page, following @b0yle on Twitter and adding the Cosmic Log page to your Google+ presence. To keep up with Cosmic Log as well as NBCNews.com's other stories about science and space, sign up for the Tech & Science newsletter, delivered to your email in-box every weekday. You can also check out "The Case for Pluto," my book about the controversial dwarf planet and the search for new worlds.
This story was originally published on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:20 PM EST
Leave a Comment:
I think that I have more then enough to do in life then to worry about the end of the world.
News breaking today - top candidate - Cardinal Peter Turkson, a 64-year-old Ghanaian prelate, is the bookmaker's early favourite to succeed Pope Benedict XVI.
Malachy predicted the final pope (after Benedict) would be named Peter. The END.
Sweet, now I will get to see the hair of that one conspiracy nut on TV get even crazier than it was during the 2012 conspiracies he promoted. "If we just imagine this, and accept this, and assume this, and believe this, then the galactic alignment will cause a mass extinction, the poles will reverse, and the planet Naburu will all come together to destroy the earth. And when that is over, aliens will invade taking our resources, and once they leave a black hole will swallow up the solar system."
Somewhere Cardinal Peter just read this article and went "Awww s#$t!"
I would not be too quick to dismiss all prophecies, however...
If you read some of the material on Edgar Cayce, there is no doubt in my mind there was something else going on with this man.
We should live every day with dignity and purpose, trying to do good things for others and being respectful to the Earth. No need to worry about the end of days if you live like that.
Maybe it's just the end of the Catholic Church, rather than the world...
Awww Geeez, and I just rented out my bunker to my neighbor as a storage unit. And I sold my last gun too. Where am I gonna get a gun NOW? All the gun crazies have bought them all up. Man. Talk about bad timing. The end.
@some sanity please: News breaking today - top candidate - Cardinal Peter Turkson, a 64-year-old Ghanaian prelate, is the bookmaker's early favourite to succeed Pope Benedict XVI.
Malachy predicted the final pope (after Benedict) would be named Peter. The END.
Except that:
A) The favorite almost never gets elected.
B) Pope Benedict XVI's birth name is Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger. Does the prophecy go for birth names or Papal names?
C) Popes almost never go by their birth name. So if Peter was elected, he could become John Paul III, Felix IV, Stephen X, Mark II (my favorite of course) or whatever other name he wants. The last Pope to take his baptismal name was Marcellus II... in 1555 so it makes it VERY unlikely that this is indeed "the end".
Get ready people, the Great Tribulation is coming soon! The time is NOW to prepair...
Can I have an "Amen!"
I'm just going to assume that this prophecy refers to the end of Catholicism and not the end of the world.
There, I feel better already.
Poor skip, don't get your hopes up. Jesus said the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church and with 1.3 BILLION members, highly doubtful, lol!
The Black guy? It was a big deal when the church had it's first non-Italian pope in centuries. I wouldn't bet even Mit Romney's money on that happening.
Can't beat a black Pope.
(did I just say that?)
A black Pope would be apocalyptic to some. They'd never get over it.
Maybe that's the "end". Black President, Black Pope, Woman Prime Minister. The world has ended, at least for some.
When do we get a Chinese Pope? That's what I would like to see more than anything, except maybe a Jewish Pope.
We did have a Jewish Pope, in fact the first one-----St. Peter
OK, I'll give you Peter, but a modern day Jewish Pope would be interesting.
Hillary Clinton would be their best pope EVER!. . .after she changes quite a few things. Destroying it would be the only other option as far as I'm concerned. With its VERY LONG history of corruption that continues to this day, along with its sordid, blood-thirsty, power-hungry history, I would not be surprised to hear one day that some country had decided to nuke the place to "kingdom come".
Another one? [insert face-palm here]
I hope not too many people face-palm at once. The vibration from the simultaneous face-palmings could match the resonance of the earth causing it to shatter then explode followed by the creation of a black hole that will swallow up what remains of it.
And so the collapse of our world was prophecized by the great Richard, in the holy text of NBCnews: 2.1.
When the end palms come, let not ye say you hath no warning!
I for one can't wait for the world of religion to collapse and be replaced by a world of inquiring reason.
It's like the Royal Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things.
Someday they'll just realize the whole thing's a bit silly.
@Doug- I saw several things today that weren't on top of other things!
This year our Australasian members and the various organizations affiliated to our Australasian branches put no fewer than twenty-two things on top of other things.
I'm not religious myself. So don't take this to strongly, but this ridiculous new prediction is neither condoned nor promoted by the Church in Rome. The story makes this clear.
This just another rumored, mystical reason for believing that after [pick one: next week, next month, next year], you won't have to worry about the job, the mortgage, or the funny noise the car is making.
The human propensity for such beliefs is not particular to any particular religion. It is not even solely religious in nature; though it is a part of the belief structure of every religion. But I'm sure there are those who expect a comet to strike the earth in the near future too. It is just part of human nature to embrace irrational beliefs that are in some, very odd way, comforting.
The bad news for those awaiting the death of religion, is that this aspect of human nature is at the root of all religions, and it is not going away any time soon.
Is that even possible?
The moon? The sun? The stars?
Me :-(
AB --- In the past, the World of Inquiring Reason has come up with these jewels 1) Rocks do not fall from the sky because there are no rocks in the sky to fall. 2) The Earth is clearly flat, any idiot can prove this by simply going outside and looking at it. Also, if you send a ship due west looking for a new land, it will fall off the Earth and be destroyed. 3) The Sun goes around the Earth, again, anyone can prove this to be true by simply going outsde at dawn and staying till sunset and observing the actions of the Sun. 4) All Black men are less intelligent than all White men. 5) All males are more intelligent than all females. 6 & 7) These are variations of 4 & 5; Well! SOME Black men are smarter than SOME white men. Also SOME women are smarter than SOME men. But, in general, 4 and 5 holds true. Senseless to argue. It is obvious. 8) While cleanliness is kinda nice, there is NO WAY dirt can cause disease. 9) Speaking of dirt and garbage, maggots arise therein. ~~~ I could go on and on and on and on, but, I think (hope) you get the picture.
Matilda: the World of Inquiring Reason has also re-investigated all of those matters and corrected them. That's the "inquiring" part at work. So you can also add all of the ACTUAL, verified scientific theories to your sarcastic list of "jewels", including the science of semiconductors which is allowing you to use the Internet right now.
Reason ftw.
If you sail far enough west you'll come to a strange land where the toilets drain clockwise. But you'll get used to it.
SF ~~~~~ I did not intend to suggest that science and scientists are always wrong about everything. I intended merely to point out that errors have often been made in the name of science, yet (some) scientists arrogantly take very unscientific steps and then arrogantly declare those who disagree to be stupid and themselves to be brilliant.
If you set up a straw man and there are no crows around, did he really scare them off?
Hmm, if I only had a brain.. I could while away the hours, discuss almighty powers, philosophize in vain...
Then it's not science or reason you have a problem with, it's people, who are by nature flawed and prone to arrogance and bias. Inquiring reason is a hedge AGAINST those flaws, but it's only as good as the individual practicing it. After all, someone who dismisses legitimate criticism isn't being very inquiring or reasonable, are they?
"In the extreme persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit ... Peter the Roman, who will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The end."
Another interpretation of the idea of 'the end' could more likely be that with the advent of more information coming to light about child abuse from the hands of those within the church it will come to head and destroy the near monarchical rule of the Vatican of Rome ("the city of seven hills") and the Roman Catholic church. The end of their religious order and its' tolerance and protection of the pedophiles within will come within the criminal courts of man and doesn't spell the end of the world by any means.
SF accountant replied to Matilda Tuscany (by the way, thumbs up to you, Matilda)
--------------------------
Then it's not science or reason you have a problem with, it's people, who are by nature flawed and prone to arrogance and bias. Inquiring reason is a hedge AGAINST those flaws, but it's only as good as the individual practicing it. After all, someone who dismisses legitimate criticism isn't being very inquiring or reasonable, are they?
----------------------------------------
It seems to me that Matilda's use of the expression 'World of Inquiring Reason' implies she is criticising those who proclaim themselves to be practising Inquiring Reason, and not Inquiring Reason itself. However I have a problem with Science itself, or at least the uncritical quasi-worship of Science that I see all too often in comments such as yours (regardless of whether Science really is Inquiring Reason or merely deludes itself that it is, or partly is and partly isn't, as seems most likely to me). We're stuck with Science whether we like it or not, but that doesn't mean we actually have to love it. It has given us some material and health benefits, but it has also given us things like nuclear weapons, and may soon give us Quasi-Super-Intelligent Machines or Persons (I call them Quasimps for short) - see for example the Terminator movies, or look up Technological Singularity on Wikipedia. Some scientists say of Quasimps that if we're lucky maybe they'll keep us as pets, but I fear we'll be lucky if they do no worse than exterminate us (for reasons which are too long and disturbing and 'offensive' to go into here). It is such 'gifts' from Science that make it quite possible that the next Pope will be the last one even if the prophecies are all rubbish. As for whether they are rubbish or not, Science and Reason (capital S and R) tell me they are, but my reason (lower case r) tells me that they may well not be rubbish (even if they are 16th century forgeries, as I assume). As I say somewhere on Wikipedia's Prophecy of the Popes Talk Page, selected forged Prophecies will come true if that amuses some sufficiently powerful hypothetical Great Joker in the Sky, and there are probably an infinite number of other scenarios that can have the same effect. Meanwhile the Prophecies arguably have some rather good hits in recent times, though it's difficult or impossible to prove whether or not these hits are more than should be expected by chance. Some of these hits are not listed on Wikipedia due things like the Reliable Source and No Original Research rules, while some rubbish is also probably still up there because nobody has yet removed it. (Note: Controversial dissent from orthodoxy, if not backed by a so-called reliable source, which in my view in this context often means an objectively unreliable source churning out reassuring falsehoods, can in practice usually be put and seen on the Talk page, but not in the main article; also much of the main article on the Prophecies is under threat of deletion as an alleged violation of the rules - so if you want a copy, get it fairly soon).
You have to be careful with what you believe listening to late night radio (like Coast to Coast).
Some is interesting and it does pass the time but some is just fun to listen to since it is so off the wall. I caught that radio broadcast last night that I think Alan listened too...then I looked up the book coming out in April that the same authors that wrote Petrus Romanus were mentioning. The "prophecy" of this article does not say how the world will end but the authors do lay out the scenario in their next book. And, doomsday material does sell books and one can make a living at it.
Still, from a quick search of the internet, the next book describes how there is an armada of aliens on their way to earth right now and the new pope will welcome these aliens along with other world leaders and everyone is fooled because the aliens are really bad or demons which leads to the final battle and the end of the world. So, that about sums it up...sounds kind of crazy.
I think I watched something similar in some sci-fi movie or tv show like Falling Skies. Maybe the aliens need to make room for an intergalactic highway and the Earth is in the way. Anyways...as unbelievable as that is, people believe it and they will say you are foolish if you are a scientist and want evidence or they will say that as a scientist, you really know what is happening and you are just trying to misdirect people and cover it up.
Either way, there is no point in arguing with crazy so I will continue to just read and write about science, things that are tangible, do research, and live life because even if it was going to happen, there is not much I could do about it. However, if the dolphins suddenly disappear from the world's oceans...I might get worried...then...
I suppose you could just put a paper bag over your head...that might help.
Maybe a tin foil hat would work better than a paper bag...
and make sure that it's REAL TIN - that cheap aluminium crap doesn't do an adequate job of blocking the signals from the mothership...
The mention of Petrus Romanus is also to be found in the HENOCH PROPHECIES...along with many other highly specific prophecies.
In 1987, the source for the information, Billy Meier, also foretold the recently occurring Russian troop movements to Arkhangelsk. He is the singular source of the most prophetically accurate info in history, eclipsing Nostradamus, Malachy, etc.
His foretelling of Apophis hitting with certainty in Eastern Europe spurred the Russians, and the Chinese, to start working on a way to deflect it...as it WILL hit with certainty otherwise.
From the article: "St. Malachy's "Prophecy of the Popes" has no credence in the Roman Catholic Church..."
In other words, Malachy is full of Malarkey.
WooHoo!!
Doomsday might still be close!
Got my Papal Duct Tape (with the picture of the pope), Catholic Gas Mask, hundreds of bottles of purified Holy Water and my anti-looter shotgun with the prayer-bead shot.
Now, I just need something for protection from zombies and asteroids.
You know, doomsday will be here any day now to possibly strike down you and me. Are you prepared? And those who hide out in bunkers, with loads of food, weapons stockpiled, afraid of their own shadows, why they are correct you know. At least some of them about the world ending.
Okay let me clarify those statements so you don't panic thinking I have some inside information. Every day people die, in all sorts of ways. Some get a warning, others none. So for a number of those folks who believe doomsday is coming, well, their world literally did end. While the rest of us continue going about our normal lives. We will have to see about that new Pope
Death doesn't take a vacation for anyone.Guess one better be careful what they wish for. In the end, personally, I believe in looking at the positive side of life and living with hope. Though I have a friend who said it is better to be a pessimist. Because one is either always proved right or delightfully surprised
When it comes to this prophecy, the last pope and end of times, one should just remember, every civilization on earth, from Egypt greatest which lasted more than 4,000, Rome 2,200, why you name any great one. The point is they all rose and fell and the more recent, the less longer they lasted. No one needs a psychic to know that. Just a matter of when for any nation now existing.
How about an aluminum foil lined paper bag?
A forgery from 1590, and it's relatively accurate? Wow, that forger must have had some visions himself. Sorry, just couldn't help myself. If one keeps statements vague enough, you can plug just about anything into them.
As for me, I think it might be more like the end of religious nonsense, not the end of the world. I suppose, we will wait and see--just like everything else.
Tony in Dallas:
LMAO! You made me snort coffee out my nose! I am with you! I am the token "geek" at work. My co-workers rely on me to keep them up on such things. Been so bummed out lately, no doomsday news to report...we are back in business! (Can you tell me how to get coffee off my computer screen without scratching it???? HA! HA!)
OOOh - I don't care if it rains or brezes
long as I got my plastic jesus
ridin' on the dashboard of my car...
Get yourself a sweet madonna
dressed in rhinestones
sittin' on a
pedestal of abalone shell
wars and dyin' may sound scary bu I got my virgin mary
tellin' me that I won't go to hell...
ISIS,,,, use a wet/dry shop vac, works great!
I don't waste coffee (see my "picture"), so I would suggest licking it off.
Regardless of what the naiive end-of-world fadists say, it IS of interest that this "prophecy" came about in the 1500's, and it IS of interest that there is an uncanny resemblance to reality regarding "St Malachy's" one-liners.
The Pope had a press conference today. He said he just wants to spend more time with his wife and kids.
Given enough time and twisting of facts, any prophecy can be "true." It reminds me a math game that we played in middle school math ... take four numbers and make them equal a fifth number through any combination of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division.
Um. 2, 4 ,6 8...and 77.
Go!
NEWS FLASH:
I read this news flash on the Internet today. And with all due apologies to Mr. Boyle, as well as the writers of the tv commercial, I also read on the Internet that they can't put anything on the Internet unless it's true. Now where's my French Model?
bonjour
I'll do one better. I'll get to 77 using only 2.
[(2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2)-(2*2*2*2*2*2)-(2*2*2*2*2*2)+(2*2*2*2)+(2+2+2+2+2)]/2
You didn't say I could only use one number once.
Tony....that was hilarious!!
@Pragnatic: I get 88. Please re-check your math.
two four six eight...WHO DO WE APPRECIATE? Malarkey...Malarky...MALARKEY! YEAH!!!
(it's all BULLS HIT!)
(2 to the 8th power=256) subtract (2 to the 6th power=64) subtract (2 to the 6th power=64 again) add (2 to the 4th power=16) add (2 times 5=10)
256-64=192
192-64=128
128+16=144
144+10=154
154/2=77
Please re-check your math :) All those 2's do get confusing tho!!!!
What's with the obsession with the end of the world?
It's not like there is anything to be done about it if it was true.
How do you know?
Don't give up so easily, Sad Person! We can still avert global destruction! All we have to do is attack the vatican and ensure that no new Pope is ever elected!
I'll bring the silencers.
@ SadPerson.....as Hilary would say "What difference does it make?"
The time to do everything is NOW. How can anyone enjoy their life, if
they are so preoccupied with tomorrow, that they miss the enjoyment of TODAY?
If lives are SO boring, that people have to live in fear of tomorrow, then it is time
to get a Life, and focus on LIVING IT.
I can think of many "other" books that are far more interesting, factual, and entertaining,
than "Nostradamus". Many of my friends and family consult Nostradamus, before they
make a move, to another job, or city, or do anything of any great importance.
I have one family member, who moved his family out of Florida, to a remote part of Tennessee,
just so he didn't have to worry about a Tsunami? Now, instead of Tsunami's, they have to
endure TORNADOS, every Spring? Go figure.
Relax. When it is our "time to go", it will be "The End Times" and not until.
When Religion ends, so will the rest of the World. After all, how long can anyone continue
to take Gifts, from the Creator, without thanking Him, and expect to be given even MORE?
There's a prediction for you. Now, go about your weekend, and get out and have FUN,
instead of being glued to your computer, awaiting the Asteroid, at 2:30pm, today.
Whatever happens, is out of your control, so none of the Doomsayers have anymore power
to predict the future, than you do. As Bob Marley would say: "Don't worry, Be Happy". :)
The dreadful judge is God and his people is the Roman Catholic Church. This "prophecy" refers not to the end of the world but the end of the Catholic Church as we know it.
ooooooooooo............scary
I agree. He's not predicting the end of the world. Rather it's the end of the RCC. Good night.
I agree as well. "The End." Of the list of popes.
And you could back that argument with say, facts. Like the RCC being corrupt, and it's bank run by a man known as the "Mafia's banker":
http://niccollsanddimes.com/2012/05/29/money-laundering-the-vatican-connection/
So Peter the Roman, Roman being Italian, or connected to the Mafia. It makes sense, seeing as how the majority of papal electors are Italian:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/02/11/cardinals-electing-pope-successor/1909069/
And yes it sounds stereotypical - not all Italians are mobbed up, but it's clear they've got problems (at the very least financial) toward that end.
The End.
electing another dago is not kosher. I want another Pole.
"Is the pope German?" just doesn't sound as good as "Is the pope POLISH?"
This prophecy relates to the "end times" not the end of the world. Look up Garabandal & you will read the same...we are entering into the end times. Please put God FIRST in your lives. To those non-believers in God, you will suffer in Hell for all eternity. Hell is real. You will suffer physical and emotional torture continuously. I beg you to accept Jesus Christ. Please live your lives in accordance to God's Divine Will. Please educate youself. We have become so disillusioned in this world & the government and media have betrayed us to thinking what is wrong is right. Satanism is rampant. Look at all the celebrities worshiping lucifer. Please pray for this world.
lulz. I worship Lucifer too. Our numbers are strong. See you in Hell!
not lucifer, a dead fiction (science, western, mystery, etc.)writer and his delusional ramblings.
please learn to separate fact from fiction.
of course that isn't easy for those that believe in another fantasy book, is it?
BTW, Happy Darwin Day!
" ... I beg you to accept Jesus Christ. ... "
Why would I do that? Then I'd have to spend all of eternity with nuts like you. And THAT would be Hell!
So, no thank you.
Educate yourselves vs blind faith. Oxymoron?
@ tampajen
I really appreciate that you have taken the time to study the bible so much that you can quote it, and I thank you for all your efforts to educate people regarding god's law. I have already learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. That is sometimes the end of the debate.
I really do need some advice from you, however, regarding some elements of this god's laws and how to follow them:
1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? Are they not from a neighboring nation?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? How should I go about advertising her for sale? Should I auction her on Ebay? How do I determine a suitable opening bid?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Leviticus 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. I don't want to get slapped any more. There must be some secret. Do you know what it is?
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the lord (Leviticus 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? If so, what type of weapon should I use to smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. (Exodus 35:2) clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? What happens if the police don't want to do it? How do we kill him to be sure we obey god's law?
6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Leviticus 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there "degrees" of abomination? How much "abomination" is too much?
7. Leviticus. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of god if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? I'm really nervous about it, and would like to know.
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27 even upon penalty of death? How should they die? This is another one of those 'should I get the police to do it, or can I do it myself' questions.
9. I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? How about basketball? Do I have to give up my leather golf glove and wear one of those synthetic ones?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, and my aunt violates it by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). My uncle also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Leviticus 24:10-16)? Isn't there an easier way? Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Leviticus 20:14)? It is somewhat embarrassing to think that we would have to get the whole town together to witness our family shame, you know...
It is clear to me that you (and the rest of these people who call themselves christians) have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.
Brilliant! Thanks!
Brilliant? ha! Ignernt is more like it. :/
@ SGM: Thank you.
@ OGA: Hey, it's in the BIBLE. Doesn't that make it irrefutable law? You do realize that by calling me a name, by extension, you are putting that same label on the the book I quoted and its authors the same thing as well, don't you?
You can't have it both ways. You or your magical invisible man in the sky.
And who appointed you as the arbiter of what is right or wrong anyway? I have news for you, you don't get the right to decide for me (or anyone else) what is moral, correct, or right.
"please pray for this world"...
Sounds like you're asking people to talk to some invisible, omnipotent, omniscient, mystical man in the sky.
Where I come from, when folks talk to invisible people, they are greeted by nice young men in clean white coats, who show them to their new rubber-walled room, and give them a nice new jacket with very long sleeves (that hook in the back) to wear.
You aren't one of those people, are you?
Why, of course you are.
The Evil Tessmacher, what you mentioned is in the old testament. Today it's the new testament. Somewhere in the new testament jesus mentioned about the new testament as being the new law over the old testament.
ah, YES - PROOF (yet again) that while you can always tell a "believer", you just can''t tell them MUCH
Tessmacher: I am no religious scholar (I'm more the fanatic type) but personally when I have to conduct a murder for the sake of satisfying dogma, I prefer doing it myself with a pipe wrench, though most zealots of the Abrahamic religions prefer bladed tools. The police are notoriously unreliable in conducting religious killings, even in so-called theocracies where they subject the heretic to a religious court. As if mortals could judge divine wisdom!
Ensure that the tool is properly oiled before hand, and that the appropriate chants (as according to your particular faith) are made upon the altar/murder site. Draw the heretic to the anointed site through force rather than guile, since dishonesty is wrong, particularly in regards to enforcing God's will. Ensure that the kill is made as quickly as possible, and keep lectures of damnation to a minimum; the heretic is already doomed to an eternity of torment, and adding to it in this corporeal world is redundant. Burning the body for disposal is generally acceptable for filthy atheists, but pagans may require some modicum of observance in dealing with their bodies, since their hedonistic nature worship is generally considered worship of an aspect of the Almighty.
Good luck, and good faith! Blessings of the Omnissiah upon you!
@The Evil Tessmacher:
1. Obviously, your neighbor is a Canadian, or worse, a wannabe Canadian. Disregard this charlatan, he seeks to lead you astray.
2. That's a toughie because these days it really is a buyer's market since so many nations have banned slavery. However, you can still have luck in most areas of sub-Saharan Africa north of S.A. and in South East Asia.
As for an actual opening price, it would have to be consistent with the local norms and what worth your daughter actually has. What is her age? Ethnicity? Can she do household chores? Is she a virgin? There are many factors, however I would categorically state that most any girl between 12 and 20 is worth at least four clay pots and a hand-carved drinking gourd in Sierra Leone, or one water buffalo of approximately her age in Myanmar.
3. Go see a doctor. If he certifies that you legitimately cannot smell that, you get a free pass on this one. Just like restaurant owners that serve bacon.
4. You need not smite your neighbor unless he has done you a grave wrong and has been unrepentant and/or unwilling to make restitution. If they have done you no wrong, you are free to ignore them or (if you are feeling conciliatory) you can burn incense or add other fragrances to the carcass before setting it alight. (Does this include the Canadian neighbor? If so, you might consider fanning the scent in his general direction.)
5. As we all know, the Law of God only applies to true believers. If you have not seen this neighbor in Temple with you, he's not one of the chosen and therefore you do not need to concern yourself with his affairs. If he DOES go to Temple with you, then please begin surveillance activities immediately, as I am in dire need to know how he can be in two places at the same time.
6. Sorry, but there is not enough information for me to make a determinate ruling here. Is the homosexuality male or female? Is the shellfish cooked or uncooked? Is there bacon involved?
7. If you memorize your sacrifice and do not need to consult parchment, you're good to go. Otherwise, get yourself some contact lenses.
8. As with #5, do you see these friends in Temple? If so, join with your Rabbi and beat them with sticks (or stone them if they surrender to your authority). Unfortunately, if they do not attend Temple, they get freebies.
9. Very few pieces of sporting equipment are made of actual leather these days. As with buying kosher food, read the label. When in doubt, synthetics are the way to go.
10. Are your Aunt & Uncle true believers? If so, it is well within your rights to correct them and, if they fail that, smite them. However, note that the definition of a field may be somewhat fluid if the crops aren't actually planted in a co-mingled fashion. Polyester is also a possible problem as it is synthetic and is not a natural fiber. Now, if she has cotton/hemp or cotton/flax garments, you've got to do something!
Mark,
You and Evil guy crack me up! Keep up the good work!!!
All this religious stuff is making my head hurt...
Science never does that.
Hmmmm.....
If science doesn't hurt your head, you're not doing it right!
Tess,
I too suggest you go with the NT. Quoting from the OT is fine for Jews, but Christians do not live by law. Study some theology.
Good article, although I think Tom Horn mentioned any Cardinal selected from "Italy" could be tied to the prophecy as Peter the Roman. If they picked someone from anywhere other than Italy it would disprove the prophecy.
I predict that no matter who they pick, there'll be some sort of connection made to Petrus Romanus. But it'll be a relief to be proven wrong ... because then we won't have to hear about the "last pope" hype for the next 20 years.
It's obvious for the folks who have made up their minds that a 500 year old prophesy cannot be correct. But the truth is there have been among us those with the ability to foretell the future. Now the rub is that there's always those who after the fact want to find fault with the message, or those proponents of the faith who want to push their agenda at any cost. In between is the truth. If you are are rational person who wants to deal with facts, you need to recognize the sheer number of incidents happening around the world that deal with the end times and the end of the Church. Akita. Fatima. Medjugorje. And many more in between. Choose to believe or not. But don't dismiss the message simply by the fact that it may be provided by a believer or that it may contradict your worldview without investigating the sources.
uh huh...
and those of us that can levitate, and walk through walls, and...
Weird definition of "truth" being tossed around here.
I think it's time for Brother Harold Camping to pull out his Biblical End of the World calculator and take another shot at prognosticating " The End " on the radio. This latest asteroid ' near earth ' flyby within the orbits of communication satellites was probably a scouting mission of Divine origin. Those who will be saved still have working radios which incorporate vacuum tubes. " Put your hand on the radio set, and feel the warmth of God! "
For the next twenty years? If this next pope is peter the roman then what I heard is that things will last for only seven years.
sorry rick - there are people who manage to make lucky GUESSES. I can foretell the future, too - I predict there will be an earthquake in IRAN and INDONESIA. I predict a new president of the USA in 2016.
Lucky GUESSES? No, these will all come to pass... (one even has an associated DATE...) I can levitate in a zero gravity field and EASILY WALK THRU WALLS - it's called a DOOR!
sheesh... "Just what we need ... a DRUISH PRINCESS!"
I predict that if Cardinal Peter Turkson, who is Black and who is often mentioned as a very real possibility, is picked, it will take, maybe most of a minute for him to NOT tow the politically correct line and will, therefore, in about 59 seconds thereafter, be declared by the beautiful people to be an "Uncle Tom." Oh, maybe I am wrong! Maybe the entire process will take all of 3 or 4 minutes.
They're called mutants, and they're an abomination upon mankind!
Except for those X-men. Those guys are kind of cool.
Say, Rick. Do you care to name some names? And don't start listing biblical prophets. The stories in the bible were all written after the fact. If I write a story this week about something that happened in 1850, I can mention that someone has predicted a great world war at the start of the 20th century. That's because now it's in the past. Most of the bible was compiled from various documents around 400 AD, and "translated" in a way that fit the Roman Empire of the time.
I dont think its the end of the world but an end to the system of things. The Vatican and its control issues will be taken down and the bankers and governments who are funded by the Vatican also. I think that the world will see hardship but preparation never hurt anybody. There will be a change from egomania to a caring and compassionate world where we are not ruled over by oil barons and imaginary bank debt. More people will see that there is a better way to live. We will begin to switch our thinking as to what is good for us and generations to come, like solar power and being free from the energy slave masters. We will switch from a consumer lifestyle to a community lifestyle where compassion and empathy will have a place in our lives again after a time where it was stolen from us by the morons in charge now. I see better things to come. If not for us then for our future generations. Change your minds and change your life. Above all reject the religion started by the man who Jesus called Antichrist.
I guess he spoke for a whole World's amount of time... but the real one is that he wasn't talking about you but about his orchestra'
Just food for thought:
Nostradamus mentions the seizing of a hierarchy of the great fisherman during Mars (Aries). Sounds like a description of the papacy being hijacked during late March/early April. Conclave will begin in mid-March?
I'm not one of those "dig a hole and grab a shotgun" type people but it is interesting!
Here's the actual quote:
Century 6, Quatrain 25
Through adverse Mars will the monarchy
Of the great fisherman be in ruinous trouble:
The young red black one will seize the hierarchy,
The traitors will act on a day of drizzle.
Mars' Greek cognate is "Ares," not "Aries." "Aries" is a ram and astrological sun sign. "Ares" is a war god and is neither a ram nor an astrological sign. So ... no.
Just ignore doomsday and it will go away.
You know,I don't think you can be a Christian *and*listen to non biblical sources.Jesus himself said 'no man knows the hour..not the angels in Heaven,nor the Son of Man himself...only the Father knows'. I'm not a Christian,but I'm pretty sure that saying you know more than Jesus is heresy.
You heard him say that? In English and everything? Since nothing in the New Testament was written down until 300 years after the Crucifixion, it is almost like the ultimate game of 'Telephone'. I think it's going to be hilarious when Jesus does get back and says, 'What? I never said any of that.'
@Enough: The Book of Mark was written ~65 AD. Most of the books were written by 100 or 150 AD (tops). Perhaps you are referring to the Ecumenical Councils of the 300s where the New Testament was defined and agreed to?
There is a lot of misleading, false and inappropriately dismissive language in this article.
The phrase: "the Catholic Church doesn't put any stock in the prophecies" is patently untrue. The prophecies of Fatima Lourdes and and many others are taken very seriously indeed by the Catholic Church, and are discussed at length on the Vatican's own website.
" Sister Madeleine Grace, a historical theologian at the University of St. Thomas who specializes in medieval texts, told NBC News. "The material that implies they're talking about future popes is rather scanty indeed, and there are factual errors. ... The likelihood is that they're some kind of forgery."
The provenance of the Malachi Prophecy is not in question after 1590, over 400 years ago. If there was a forgery, it was made 400 years ago to reflect the identities of the popes of the previous 500 years.
That would not mitigate the fact that the popes from 1590 to the present were described in the document, and that the last pope is predicted to be 268th pope after St. Peter, who happens to be the successor to Benedict.
"Doomsday fans have found ways to link each phrase to a corresponding pope through the centuries. That includes John Paul II, who is associated with phrase No. 110, "From the labor of the sun," because he was born on the day of a solar eclipse and was entombed on the day of a solar eclipse as well. Benedict XVI, No. 111, is supposedly "glory of the olive" because some members of a branch of the monastic order founded by St. Benedict are known as Olivetans."
One can say that people have "found ways to link each phrase to a corresponding pope, but with the exception of a few, the correspondence is not particularly arcane. For example the relationship between the phrase "Glory of the Olive" and Pope Benedict. The fact is that an entire order of the Benedictine Federation are known as "Olivetans", not "some members of a branch" of the Benedictine order". If the description is not compelling to the author, that is his opinion, but why distort the facts?
As for the phrase associated with Paul2, what does the "labor of the sun" refer if not an eclipse? and Paul was born and died on days with solar eclipses. It does not seem to me to be that much of a stretch that this could be a defining attribute of that pope, through whatever foggy prophetic lens Malachi may have been looking.
In any case, the prophecy predicts that the 268th Pope after St Peter will be the final Pope, and reign during a time of planetary calamity (and the destruction of Rome).
It is interesting to notice that according to the prophecy, the final pope will reign at the unique moment in the past 2000 years that the world is teetering on the brink of a planetary scale calamity. Global warming is the most obvious (and likely inevitable) threat to all of humanity, and nuclear war would be far more devastating than any other event in human history and would certainly be a planetary catastrophe.
Neither of these were conventionally foreseeable in either 1140 or 1590.
Even apart from these obvious candidates for calamity, anyone can see that modern civilization is untenable and unsustainable. The continuation of our society as it is now is not an option, politically, environmentally or otherwise.. The world may be better or worse in 40 years, but it is certainly going to be very different.
The fact that this pope also will reign within months of the end of a 36,000 year cosmic cycle determined by the Mayans, and that the Dalai Lama is also prophesied to be the last in the lineage is also worthy of consideration.
Add to this the cataclysmic visions of Edgar Cayce and others.
Of course, if one's mind is so closed to the notion that prophesy is possible, then this confluence of these predictions can be nothing more than an insignificant coincidence, albeit of incalculable odds.
I for one, am certain that psychic phenomena (predictions included) occur, so I can't take solace in that ignorance.
Personally, I sincerely hope that the prophecy is wrong, and that there were be many more popes to come. I am not invested in the notion of planetary calamity, and I am not a "doomsday fan".
But I will watch the succession of the Pope with interest and concern.
Oh, wait, that was a non-Christian prophecy.
prophesy - a way to try to convince others that you aren't as dumb as a ROCK... You don't even need to be around for the results that either never happen or are statistically GUARANTEED...
Sister Madeleine Grace has passed along word that she feels her quotes are being taken out of context, and that she made no mention of doomsday, etc. (which is true, she didn't), so upon reflection, I've removed her quotes from the article. She was referring to the likelihood of a 16th-century forgery purporting to be a text from St. Malachy, and also referring specifically to the "Prophecy of the Popes" rather than all prophecies. I'm sorry that she was misunderstood.
Also, the Olivetans are a monastic order (Order of Our Lady of Mount Olivet) within the Benedictine Confederation. They follow the Rule of St. Benedict. Thus, you could say that all Olivetans are Benedictines, but not all Benedictines are Olivetans.
http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Olivetans
You're right -- if the VATICAN didn't put any stock in prophecies, they would not have asked for two pre-publication copies of "Saint Paul's Joke" (published Sept 2012) -- or sent the 'thank you' note that is cited on the book's cover.
"Saint Paul's Joke" does not cite the Nostradamus prophecy (that was done in "The Prophecy Notebook" back the the late 70's). However, 17th century questions about the relevance of the St Malachy prophecies, revealed by Vatican in 1590, are now meaningless -- we have 420 years against which to verify their accuracy.
One poster made a comment about the Mayan calender ending -- that coincided with the Hindu New Golden Age -- and dismisses the Mayan based on idea that we are still here... But is the Mayan Culture still here? Their calendar ended on a natural cycle, and their prophecy, if that was what it signified, only meant they wouldn't need the next cycle calendar.
Malachy says Rome is to be destroyed under the 112th Pope, the next Pope.... who is somehow to be connected with the designation "Peter the Roman".
There was no "Mayan Prophesy". The Mayan Calendar simply reached their version December 31, so it was time for Mayan's to "buy a new calendar to hang on the wall."
Happens to me all the time. I have a 2010 calendar still hanging in my cube. It has nice pictures.
The Mayan's had some nice carvings, too, on their calendars!
The 13th Baktun was the Hooters end of the year special.
I had no idea they had calendars featuring fetching Mayan ladies. Were these hung up in the basements of the pyramids where the stone cutters worked and in the lockers of the ball-players?
Yes, featuring the Ms Maya of the month. December 21st was actually the end of the yearly subscription.
Finally, it is not the end of the world that is predicted, but the end of the Catholic Church, the destruction of Rome and a global tribulation.
All this shows is that Alan, the author of this article, needs another job, or needs some basic course on reason, logic and analysis. It is truly amazing the racism in this article. If a Black man become a Pope in the Vatican there would be doomsday or apocalypse. How paranoid, racist and judgmental is that? With minds like this apocalypse has already begun. MSNBC is slowly losing people's respect and credibility with these kinds of articles.
Remember this in research: what you focus on may also reflect your values and prejudices. In that regard we already have seen the racism of the people who are making papal predictions...in the press or in the public.
Shame on you...if you have any!
Dr. MS.....He's just relaying a story of what someone stated almost 1,000 years ago. He DOES NOT state it is true by any means if you read his message. Plus some of your posts are so off topic about the State Of the Union, a killer is found dead and your own predictions of the End of the World because of what Congress does not pass. Who is the soothsayer here, certainly not Alan. He does a fine job of communicating with his listeners. I wish I was so level headed as he always appears to be.
Thanks for the good word, Alan. Yes, much of the chatter surrounding the "Prophecy of the Popes" has been focusing on Cardinal Peter Turkson ... but I hope the bottom line from the article is that the text of the prophecy is not really all that prophetic, and that no matter who is chosen as the next pope, someone is going to link that person to "Petrus Romanus" and the end times.
You are so Welcome Alan. I like your articles brought to our attention which makes for responsible conversation. I like a good debate hopefully based on some sort of fact or History. In this case you were bringing to light what someone had stated/meant in the past. Some choose to blame you for quotes made by someone else then go of on some sort of rant about a non-topic. Keep up the good work and even though some or myself may not totally agree it makes people think and give their own opinion right or wrong. Thinking is good.
Since the days of Noah, things are still the same. No matter what, some people will not believe. Just how the world is. But when God moves, watch them run and scream for mercy. Just gonna be like it was before, many will perish, end of story, but still very sad .
Actually no, Mike. Since Noah's time many pairs of animal species he herded aboard the ark have become extinct. Is that because they too refused to believe?
Millions of people over the ages have suffered by the hands of Man that did absolutely nothing wrong, They screamed and pleaded and prayed to no avail because there was NO one to hear or help them in the time of need. Many have perished already by floods, car accidents, murder, disease war and various other means. A lot more then any time of a Noah or any fable you wish to point out. I do not see any God moving to help mankind or anything else. If you wish to make things happen you best do it yourself and not rely on others to do it for you.
If God "moves", and this causes us to beg and scream for mercy, well, he doesn't seem to be any kind of god I would want to worship.
Kindly focus on the State of the Union address, and Droner's capture...which either would be an incinerated body beyond identification, or no body. That will be the news of the century. Why did they have to burn a cabin to capture a guy? That is like frying a live human or a dead body that has not been identified as Droner's.
This should keep us wake at night...not the end of the world. If the law enforcement is not being competent, smart, thoughtful and efficient then it will be the end of the world. If they are corrupt and sending people over the line then that is a problem. Or...if they are recruiting people who are mentally unstable that is also a problem.
Bad law enforcement is an end of the world issue.
If Congress does not pass many of the policies stated in the Union Address then it could be end of the world.
Alan...here Alan...here boy...focus, focus, focus!
Dr. MS, there's a reason Alan doesn't write about those things,
Alan Boyle is NBCNews.com's science editor.
There is no need to be so rude as to call him like a dog. It shows that you have no respect or decency. If you have issues with this type of article, kindly go look at the articles which you do mention are an interest to you. There are plenty of things on this site I don't care for, but I certainly do not treat its writers like trash.
Kindly go read stories related to your topics of interest rather than reading stories about other things and then whining that they aren't about what you want them to be about.
Hey Ms,,, his name was Dorner.
if any comment should be flagged as "no value" it is the stupid derail attempt by "dr" ms
should be named Dr BS
Seriously? How does this end up on a 'news' site? I know you have a lot of space to fill but drivel is never appropriate.
Just because you deem it drivel doesn't mean it is not a subject of interest to many.
.
There must be a way of making some money out of this. Superstition is usually good for a buck or two. Actually though, I think the worst damage is done by the fanatic believers and not the crooks.
Or maybe it just means Rome will be destroyed. What a waste, but if it gets rid of the oppression the Vatican has been spreading the past few years, good.
Athough it's more likely just pure BS.
This is a freebie, go and read Revelations 17-9, when you figure that out you might understand that Nostradamus and Malachy might not mean anything but maybe, just maybe you'll look at the bible.
Right! Christian phophecies are always true; non-Christian prophecies are never true.
By definition only Christians can know truth.
Good call!
hey - one book of dogmatic assertions or another... it's all BULLS HIT...
OMG! The end times are nigh! Gimme a break. Too bad people haven't outgrown such superstitious nonsense.
or the MYTHS also associated with them