Pie in the sky??

Money, means, and will. That's all you need. And they have all three. Doesn't sound so pie in the sky to me.

They all need one more BIG thing (ie. person) to take along with them......

An Orthopedic PHYSIATRIST (Rehabilitation Physician)

Physiatrists are nerve, muscle and bone experts who treat injuries, illnesses or DISABILITIES which affect how you move ( or cannot...) by providing non-surgical treatments, usually PHYSICAL THERAPY.

With all that RADIATION EXPOSURE, trust me, their BEST Friend in Universe would be the Orthopedic Physiatrist they take along with them . That way they can do all that exercising.....TOGETHER!!

Hey, mob, how about we open a restaurant on the Moon and call it "Pie in the Sky"? We can even serve pie, maybe even moon pies.

Or, for irony, we could serve only cake for dessert.

Tony, you got it. We'll open a pizza place on the moon. Can you imagine the guys in the kitchen tossing the pizza dough??

Oh, yeah, pizza pies. I was thinking apple and pecan.

I wonder how the yeast would react?

Tony, I wonder if the cakes would be huge and fluffy due to the low gravity...

Well, then, I was thinking of pizza crust dough.

The extra thick crater dough. A big pizza crust with a large crater full of all your favorite toppings. On special until the Sun goes down (that's for two weeks on the Moon), so get yours today. And don't forget the Moon Pie and Cosmic Cool-aid. (or Cosmic Cola?).

Would the yeast react differently? As far as I know, it's just a chemical process releasing carbon dioxide. We will have to figure that out. Because we'll almost certainly be brewing our own moon beer (call it "Dark Side of the Ale", or Lunar Lager, or Orbita Porter, or Sidera Cider... )

Why the "or"? We will need different varieties of beer and ale. (I like "Dark Side of the Ale")

Let's also not forget the "space spirits" of Jovian Rum and Venusian Whisky (Whiskey).

We'll leave the wineries to those rich snobs on Mars.

Each launch already has "launch insurance". So, I'm sure that will continue. And I'm sure there will be a litany of paperwork and release forms for the people who go on these journeys. The individuals will have their own insurance. The companies will have insurance. The launch providers will be insured. And you can bet the farm that if anything goes horribly wrong even all the release forms won't prevent that company from being severely affected or even put out of business.

If civilians die because of your rocket or other mission hardware, who is going to want to fly with you.

My idea is to have you go back to school and take more science and math courses.

You better get him some grammar and spelling courses, too.

Good call, Tony. Judging by these blogs, though, classes might be full...

That was cute margie!! Reality for the next couple of decades is that the moon trip might well be feasible for some folks. The Mars idea may attract a number of folks who might not have a full grasp of what it would be like to live with someone in what will soon come to feel like a very small capsule for a year and a half. With almost none of the pleasures of life, such as going outside for a breath of air. With the serious threat of longterm radiation damage to your body. With no help available if one person gets ill or goes stir-crazy, or dies.

It happened to Cozumel, it will happen to the moon.

All the good Earth-view sites will be overrun with shops selling "moon rock refrigerator magnets" and "I did it on the Moon" T-shirts.

Or "My parents went to the Moon, all I got was this lousy T-shirt."

Of course, Ralph Cramden's wife might have a different take on it. "To the Moon, Alice!"

Don't forget "Member: Million Mile High Club"

Just a bit of Googling indicates the most G-force the human body can tolerate is 16 G for one minute.

960 feet is maximum depth (30 atmospheres) for divers (on mixed air). A person immersed in and breathing liquid could withstand an acceleration well beyond 30G's. Systemic solution involves inclusion of the universe to employ synergetic advantage in resolution of all subsystem problems.

So, it's like the suits they wear in 'The Abyss'? Or are you going to fill the whole craft with this magic liquid? And if so, then what is the amount of mass that you are devoting to the liquid during launch?

Also, I thought of an acronym for your mass gravitation tractor asteroid deflector robot ship...

Robot Asteroid Deflector Gravitation Mass Tractor Ship - RAD GraMas TraSh

G-force due to linear acceleration is very different from omnidirectional compression in deep sea dives. The physiological stresses are are not comparable in the least.

As to the concept of a breathable liquid? There is research being done on it, believe it or not. But at this point, it would be much, much easier to design a bigger rocket.

How about: Gravitational Redirection Assist and Breaking for Asteroidal Safety and Security?

We will call it:G-R-A-B-A-S-S

Now if we could get everyone to stop fighting we would have plenty of money to do all these things.Can you imagine the total monies spent on military budgets around the world.

But we'd miss you on these boards! You can go as long as you have an internet connection lol

Thanks. I would hope I could download a sudoku from time to time.

Well, it's hard to say. If a bunch of billionaires decide that they like spending the money to do orbital flights then they may just want to invest in making the other stuff safer. And they could end up being major reasons for the eventual human push into outer space.

But there will always be snake oil salesmen and P.T. Barnum effect is taught in college Psych 100 classes.

Now, having said all that, it's important to note that not all companies and individuals are snake oil salesmen. There are many in the industry who will spend their fortunes on a goal they may never realize in their lifetimes. And it's those people that we will all be indebted to as we reach for the stars.

As for the money... 1% is all we can ask for in today's financial paradigm. Our culture would need to change drastically in order to ask for more federal money to go towards something like space exploration. And that's the key: "Exploration"

If all you want to do is conduct science and learn about the nature of the cosmos, then there are plenty of robotics options for that. There really is no need to involve humans in space unless you want to do two things: Science about how to keep humans alive and well in space, and pure exploration for the sake of actually going there ourselves.

If we want to see other cosmic bodies we can just send cameras on robots. If we want to experience other cosmic places then we need to send people. And if that's a goal then we need a fundamental paradigm shift in how our culture goes about our day and what's really important.

We will continue to spend all our money on healthcare and warfare if we don't change the paradigm.

With the pittance that America and the rest of the world spends on space science and exploration, we are in the midst of a major scientific renaissance. We are learning untold volumes about the nature of the Universe. Look back through history and tell me we aren't in a renaissance of understanding about the cosmos. And in learning these things we are also developing new tools that help us in our daily lives. Materials that were developed at NASA help make artificial limbs lighter and help safeguard fire fighters. Children that watched the moon landing in '69 have grown up to become all sorts of things, many were influenced enough to get into the space industry. People near my own age grew up watching Space Shuttle launches, Space station construction, the internet opening up communication, cell phones and smart phones everywhere...

To change our paradigm we need to spread the word about what has taken place and the benefits that have come as a result of our space program. Given the things I know, it's hard to believe that a strong percentage of Americans actually think NASA gets around 20% of the federal budget. (go ahead, ask around, it's true)

America spends about (these are general numbers) 25% of our federal monies on defense. And another 25% on healthcare. Around 11% on welfare. Compare that to the roughly 4% we spend on education!

A major paradigm shift is what this country needs.

Joe Strout - I don't doubt the sincerity of the scientists and engineers on these projects (I am one and i've spent many years in the space/aerospace industry)... I recognize the business and marketing that is going on here. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors and marketing hype.

Yes, we need to expand beyond Earth. But we also have to recognize that if we depend entirely on commercial ventures, it's unlikely to happen on the timelines they are presenting. We need the Gov's to be doing (more) basic research and exploration while allowing private enterprise to pick that up and run with it when each phase is mature enough. SpaceX is not doing their thing alone. They have had a lot of access to engineering and flight data gathered by NASA programs over the past 60 years. Without NASA's work, they wouldn't exist.

"They have had a lot of access to engineering and flight data gathered by NASA programs over the past 60 years. Without NASA's work, they wouldn't exist."

That's correct. But that's exactly as it was meant to be. One of the reasons the National Aeronautics and Space Administration exists, is to advance the aerospace art, for the benefit of US military and commercial applications.

Don't say it as if it's a 'favor' they do for commercial space and aviation, it's NASA doing precisely what it's supposed to do...

"Yes, we need to expand beyond Earth. But we also have to recognize that if we depend entirely on commercial ventures, it's unlikely to happen on the timelines they are presenting."

Perhaps, but few (certainly not myself) propose doing away with NASA, merely ridding ourselves of the mindset that 'all things space' (especially manned space) in the US must be, or go through. or otherwise have something to do with NASA.

It never was true (the DoD has always had space-based activities with little or nothing to do with NASA), it'll be less true in the future...starting approximately now.

Doug - you FOOL. NASA made TONS of money for the Gubberment. When NASA really flew to the moon - the ROI was about 9:1. For every dollar we spent on NASA - 9 went back into our economy. You don't find investors willing to blow billions of dollars for OUR benefit you moron....they want PROFIT....and fools like you will gladly give it to them and skip around with the balloon in hand and foolish grin thinking you're really doing something? How ignorant.....raise MONEY for the gubberment? You don't even have a clue - do you?

You don't even have a clue - do you?

No, I don't. And you're not helping with that angry incoherent rant. But if it makes you feel good...

Actually, much of that is still the intellectual property of the contractors in question.

But no one wants to return to the Moon/go to Mars with mostly 60's technology, anyway. Not even NASA. Technology has moved on since then. That's why it's possible for private entities like these to consider what they want to do at all.

Don't worry, they'll have coupons for "buy one, get one free".

Well it shouldn't have cost 1.4 billion dollars per space shuttle launch either. But here we are.

If you saw a line by line breakdown of how much the proposed moon venture would cost it would probably be about what you'd expect. But my guess is there is quite a bit that most people don't take into account when thinking about a trip to the moon.

Really? You haven't even launched humans into space - much less cargo....very SMALL cargo at that - and the price is pretty staggering. And yet you think this is a time for celebration. Our only ACCESS to the ISS we spent the majority on is through the RUSSIANS. As evidence this weekend, SpaceX has a hard time with even simple rockets - much less even CONSIDERING humans - Russians beat them there too...and you are CELEBRATORY? Wow - what a dismal generation you get to find ahead of yourself.....

Geez. All work and no play must make JayFuntime a dull boy. What - you didn't get your coffee this morning?

In case you didn't get it, he's celebrating the anticipation of what's coming up. The ride is just getting started. Not that any of this new stuff has already occurred.

Its been said many times by many people, but bears saying again. There is a lot to celebrate about what has already happened as well. The past 50 years have been exhilarating. And yes, the US does not have human-ready spacecraft at the moment, but we'll have some soon. We've been without in the past and still have a strong space program.

So, you know, if you want to be a grouch I really don't care. But don't begrudge someone else their enjoyment of the present. However, I think you have to change your name - JayNoFuntime would be more appropriate. What a dismal person you must be...

Appreciate that Brisaber. I agree, if JayNoFun can only gripe and whine about this era he is probably ticking his mom off who lives on the main floor of the house. She may even shut the basement light off on him...

No - sorry - I'm not bashing anyone. But, I do NOT want you to become complaicant - or think we've done anything in the past year or two. We have done very LITTLE. I do not accept how little SpaceX has done - and dont' want any of you to either. You held the "experts" NASA to the fire - and yet with SpaceX - they do very little and you'd think they hung the moon. Honestly - it's revolting. Launching 2-3 SMALL resupply missions to station - is that worth laying over 1000's upon 1000's of our brightest minds? I have friends who were Cargo Engineers now working 2-3 odd jobs....it's pathetic. SpaceX doesn't hire - remember - they are private...all about profit. And NASA was seeing a ROI of approximately 5:1 when Shuttle ended. It's just sad - and I wish more people held SpaceX accountable....because if you wanna see a Ponzi scheme....wow!

@ Jay:

"Really? You haven't even launched humans into space - much less cargo....very SMALL cargo at that - and the price is pretty staggering. And yet you think this is a time for celebration."

No, we don't have daily flights to the moon yet, but things are clearly starting in the right direction. Some of us see that. The tree has hardly fallen yet, but it's the first cracking of the tree trunk before the lumberjack shouts 'timber...'

"Our only ACCESS to the ISS we spent the majority on is through the RUSSIANS."

Yes. and this is one of the most important things Commercial Crew is meant to address. It isn't just a matter of prestige, or the money we pay them for this (though there's that, too), but the simple fact that if the Russians should have an engineering problem with either Soyuz or its launcher (and their launch record lately is not exactly inspiring), that causes them to shut soun until they can fix it, there would be no ISS access.Soon, the US will have three comfortably redundant ways of getting its people there...and to any other (almost certainly commercial) LEO destinations.

"SpaceX has a hard time with even simple rockets..."

New things don't work perfectly at first. (ask Boeing) Welcome to technology development. Nothing new here.

"... much less even CONSIDERING humans -"

'Considering?' Dragon was meant to ultimately be a manned craft from the very start. (You could do it quick-and-dirty right now, if you really had to.) Everything learned from unmanned flights feeds back into that,

"Russians beat them there too..."

The Russians beat everyone 'there,' if you mean humans to orbit. What's your point? The Wright Brothers likewise proved heavier-than-air flight could be done. Now it's a matter of making it commercially practical.

"and you are CELEBRATORY? Wow - what a dismal generation you get to find ahead of yourself....."

(shrug) I can't speak for other commenters, but was born in 1954. You're welcome to do the math. I know how we got here. I was a space-geek from single-digit age. What's only history for many of you, was once current events to me. I'm only surprised it's taken this long to get to this point...but I never doubted that it would.

No, it's not time to crack open the champagne just yet, but it's not too soon to select the bottle...

Agreed on this: complacency is a bad thing. I just think the point can be made without calling everything revolting, pathetic, a waste of time, and dismal. Takes away from making your point, because then all anybody can think if what an arse you are.

NASA has been great, and still is doing some thing quite well, thank you. Especially the science missions. Government is good at few things, and basic research is one of them. Taxi service to LEO and launching satellites? Private enterprise will do it much more cost-effectively. But that's an industry still in it's infancy. Don't be so short-sighted. There is a lot of fun stuff coming up yet.

So what you are saying, in general, is your an asshat.

I love how you bash "the writer" who would wipe the floor with you in a battle of wits.

You trashed me because I think this is an exciting time?

Yeah, you're an asshat.

Oh yeah, I'm from Gen X also. I'm just not an asshat like you.

"We had Shuttle - you have NADA...."

And I remember Mercury...

Why do you speak as if it's all over? Do you not anticipate new space developments at all? What did you think they would look like?

Or are you making the mistake of assuming they must look like the big-government driven projects of the past?

"All the while you just canceled NASA..."

No one has 'canceled' the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

The Space Shuttle was retired, as planned in 2004. Is that all NASA is to you?

Constellation was cancelled by this administration...as it should have. t was a project that was sucking the financial life out of NASA, over budget, constantly slipping schedule, you'd still be waiting for an Orion/Ares-I launch in (maybe) 2017, just to LEO (essentially repeating Apollo 7), had it not been shut down. Ares V? Who knows? somewhere in the 2020's...and with its lunar lander being dropped from the program long before cancellation, the best you could hope for is a repeat of Apollo 8 capability. (SLS won't do any better)

There's plenty that can be done with existing, tested launchers. (And I mean EELVs from the United Launch Alliance. Falcon isn't there yet, but I have confidence that it will be, and competition is a good thing. SpaceX already undercuts Chinese launchers.)

Never mind. Just got to any NASA center, and tell us if the doors are locked...

Thanks for the quote reminder.

You're most welcome, Tony.

( And wouldn't all this arguing on earth make ANYONE want to go into Space? I certainly 'get it" - for one.)